GenX Adulting Podcast (00:16)
Welcome to Gen X Adulting. And today we have return guest Kim Minch, author of the book Lost in Place: How to Support, Motivate, and Launch an Adult Child, and also the founder of Real Life Parent Guide. Welcome back, Kim.

Kim Muench (00:31)
Yay, I'm so happy to see you, Nicole and Brian. It's great to be here and talk Gen X again.

GenX Adulting Podcast (00:37)
We're so

happy to have you. And for just to get ahead of this, for any listeners

that want to know more about Kim, she actually, like I said, is a return guest and she did her life story in a previous episode. I don't remember which number it was. So we should have known that. We'll look it up and and

Kim Muench (00:55)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (00:55)
tell, and it'll be in the show notes as well, where you can find Kim's.

Full life story, but today she's joined us to excitedly talk about her book, Lost in Place, which I'm so excited about this because I feel like last time we talked, you were just on the precipice of about to take off with so many different things. And you did way faster than I even imagined. I mean, I feel like we just had you on, and just since we last saw you, you've done all the things.

Yeah. So, it's been quite a ride just in that short period of time.

Kim Muench (01:33)
Yes, I agree. It has been very, very busy and very the growth is it's excit well, it's exciting and not exciting in that the niche and the problem that I work with parents on is it's it's kind of frightening to think of how large a problem it is and that it's really global. It's not just a we're not talking about an issue that's happening in the United States or, you know, even just, you know, in North America.

I work on a regular basis with parents in Switzerland, Dubai, the UK, South Africa, and it's all pretty much the same problem. Every family's a little bit unique, but it's the same problem essentially.

GenX Adulting Podcast (02:17)
That's amazing. And I remember when we talked last, you had mentioned that it was global, but has that increased even with your have you observed that that those numbers have increased globally just since we last spoke?

Kim Muench (02:32)
I would say for sure, yes. The people who contact me, while I st the bulk of them are still, of course, in the United States and Canada probably second. The increase in UK, increase in South Africa, that those two places are things that I am seeing much more often, and having parents join my parent support group from those areas of the world on a regular basis.

GenX Adulting Podcast (03:01)
That's interesting. Okay, so why lost in place? I

I I know you've probably been working on this book for a while, but what was the motivation in the beginning of writing this book and getting it out there in this form, this format?

Kim Muench (03:16)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, so lost in place is actually a term that a fellow coach of mine came up with and trusted to, you know, trusted me to share. You know, I really think what I'm seeing in these young people who aren't moving towards independence. In fact, they're feeling helpless and or kind of isolating at home and, you know, becoming socially just, you know, taking steps backward almost in their lives in their twenties.

even from where they were in high school is, you know, the the typical term we use for that, that you know, everyone knows is failure to launch. But he had come up with this idea of lost in place. And when I heard it, I immediately was like, I like that so much better. And if you're lost, you can be found. So I have been working with parents specifically in of young people in 18 to say 30,

since twenty twenty one when my book came out and when I was very transparent about the struggles that I experienced with my son in his twenties, my oldest son. So immediately parents of that, you know, eighteen to say twenty-five age range started coming to me and wanting to, you know, have coaching. Well, that's now grown to I'm I'm now helping parents on a regular basis that have twenty eight, twenty nine, thirty, sometimes in their early thirties. So this

Protracted adolescence is is getting longer. and this book really was a desire to build and share a roadmap with parents all over the world as to how to parent through this.

GenX Adulting Podcast (04:59)
Okay, so in the book do you get to the root of maybe the cause, the general cause of this phenomenon?

Kim Muench (05:08)
Yes.

Yes. And it's and I don't know if I talked about this in the last episode, but to me there are three things that have been contributing to this. And then one reason I think that Gen X is really

I don't want to say responsible. It's not, it's not that. While Gen X and and that Gen X really contributes to the way we grew up really contributes to it. So let me start with the three things that I see most often that are contributing to a delayed independence.

That's what we're that's what we're talking about here. Delayed inde independence. We're not calling it anything else negative or whatever, just delayed independence. and that first thing is screens. There is absolutely obvious.

at this point lots of evidence as to how screen use, daily digital use, has impacted this generation of young people and how really we didn't grow up with this and e and our millennials maybe

started, we're a little bit older when this came along. But Gen, Gen Z really are the ones that are the first generation that has access to and or used daily, phones, computers, gaming, all of that, much more readily, and we are now seeing the results of that. So whether it is gaming or Doom scrolling,

screen use in general is the very first thing that I that has contributed to this in my mind. Second, we

GenX Adulting Podcast (06:46)
Okay.

Kim Muench (06:47)
have a lot of young people who haven't socially reacclimated or recovered from COVID.

This is, I I I talked to many parents who, yeah, my kid was doing great. They were doing great in high school. They were socially adept. They, you know, academically brilliant, blah, blah, blah. And then COVID. And they haven't come out of that. Or maybe they were in college during twenty twenty and they had to come home, you know, obviously they had to come home. And then they just never

They might have graduated but then they never got into the work world. There's lots of reasons. But COVID lockdown is the second thing that I hear on a regular basis. And the third thing is

we have really done a number on young people thinking that marijuana use is okay and it used for anxiety. That's that's what they're, you know, a lot of them are using it for. However,

The marijuana we all know that we used or may have used during our high school, years in the eighties is not the same marijuana as it is today.

And there's an an extensive number of young people who are struggling with serious issues related to a dependence on marijuana, whether that be psychosis or hypermesis, I think it's called. I'm trying not not to I'm not a doctor. I let me just say but you know that.

cyclical vomiting issue. I mean they're very, very sick and and they can't stop using marijuana. So marijuana use is a third thing that these are the three things that I see most contributing. And what I think is as parents, as and I'm 58, I feel like we weren't allowed when we were growing up to have certain emotions or many of us weren't.

emotions like anxiety, emotions like fear, sadness, anger. We weren't allowed to have those feelings. At least I know in in our house, it was looked down upon. And when we now have Gen X parents who have these young people with a lot of anxiety, big feelings, explosion explosive, you know, blaming, whatever. I think we

And it not to mention the fact that I think our parents sometimes kept us in line by shaming us. And then when we have our young, our twenties something or our thirty-something pointing fingers at us and telling us that, we suck as a parent or because we did this, this and this, it's our fault. This is bringing our generation of parents way over to the side of overcompensating, enabling, and and it's just it's like a perfect storm.

of these three elements and the way Gen X sometimes feels about themselves. and, you know, how we're parenting through this stage. And it's it's really but I also think this is the greatest opportunity, which is what the book is about, right? I I identify these core issues and I talk about, you know, are you a parent who wasn't able to express big feelings when you were growing up? And then now you have this

older teen or twenty something that you know it it is shut down and or explosive or every time you bring up a tough topic, they're they literally like can't fathom. And and you as a parent, you're you you have an inability to tolerate their big feelings. That's really what's going on. An inability to tolerate their young person's big feelings and fear of self-harm in that young person.

GenX Adulting Podcast (10:37)
Go ahead. Well do you think that fear of communicating big feelings starts earlier? So now we've got this trained cycle because now it's kinda real now that they're older, the issues are slightly bigger. if they don't have the skills between the two or the dynamics are not there, it feels like it would exacerbate that.

Kim Muench (10:57)
For sure. It absolutely does. And then I I happen to work with a lot of

GenX Adulting Podcast (11:01)
Well.

Kim Muench (11:01)
parents who maybe have worked very, very hard, right? They might have come from nothing in their backgrounds financially, very difficult and they've worked really, really hard. And now they're in a place or they have been, maybe for the last decade or two, of providing really, really well for these young people. And there's really like no motivation on this young person's part because

they've been well taken care of and they don't know what it means to have to work hard to to achieve something. They they have live a have lived a very comfortable lifestyle and it's just like not

within them, in that internal motivation that some of us had to

GenX Adulting Podcast (11:45)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (11:46)
get out of the house, to make a make a life for ourselves, it just isn't there because quite frankly, home is pretty comfortable. If if the only thing you have to deal with is fighting with your parents once in a while, you'll do that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (11:59)
I I have one follow-up. I you know, then I'll shut up. No, no, you're good. You're good. Have you found that those dynamics and that taking care of them so well? Are the are the kids loosely termed twenty thirties not

necessarily a kid

Kim Muench (12:14)
Yes, mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:15)
anymore, but

are they manipulating the parents? Have they figured out how to game their own parents and manipulating them and playing that guilt against them?

Kim Muench (12:23)
I'm not gonna say it's all the time, but I think there are times when that happens. I I think

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:27)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (12:28)
there are times when that happens. I don't think across the board that, I that I I can't make that blanket statement,

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:34)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (12:34)
but I do think there are times when young people, they know how to work their parents.

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:39)
Yep. So gen as as so many of us know, Gen X in general, as parents, we've all spent a decent amount of time

trying to break generational cycle, the generational cycle of trauma, of abuse, whatever we went through, we tried to create the childhood we always wanted for our own children. So that then there comes that overcompensating and making everything so wonderful for our children. Because in a lot of ways it's a heal it's part of our healing journey, if you really think about it, right? That's our we're doing it for our children, but through doing that, unknowingly we are healing a part of ourselves as we witness our children have the childhood

We always wanted. But then as they become adults, as you just spoke about, we've almost made things too good and we've re removed so much adversity that there's a complete lack of motivation to seek out any other life because their life is so wonderful at home and things have been made so great. and then in a way, we've kind of negated a work ethic. Like Gen X grew up with such a strong work ethic, but it's almost

Almost

like in in general, I'm not saying every Gen Z or every Gen X parent, but it seems like what you're seeing is that with the lack of a work ethic and it's created no motivation to leave the home. but then when the parent the child comes at those parents with their big feelings, it's triggering that Gen X parent back to where they were as a child.

So it's this cycle, right? Of you want to do right by your child, you're trying to give them what you always wanted, but then it part of it's backfiring and what's coming back at you is taking you immediately back to your own issues. Does that make sense?

Kim Muench (14:38)
Yes, and I want to add something

here. I want to go back to screens for a minute because as we

GenX Adulting Podcast (14:42)
Okay.

Kim Muench (14:43)
were raising our kids, what also became, what also became apparent was that social media also affected us.

We saw other people's families, we saw other people's vacations, we and there's a comparison that goes along with that. And there are many parents who really struggle with not their family not looking like or functioning like other families they see on Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And they're they feel like they've failed. They feel inadequate. And so they start over functioning. If they haven't already, they're they continue, maybe I should say.

say over functioning because they want desperately to look like the other families that they're seeing on on screens. So it it has affected the screen has affected us as well.

GenX Adulting Podcast (15:36)
Yes, and also and also that.

Could be also part of them trying to fulfill something in themselves because maybe growing up they saw other kids getting all the things they never had. And so they don't want their children to feel that way. So if Johnny is getting brand new shoes and Mikey's getting brand new shoes, then they want their Timmy to also have the brand new shoes because they remember they didn't get the brand new shoes. But okay,

Kim Muench (16:00)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:00)
so with social media, somebody's getting something new every single day. So it's

Kim Muench (16:05)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:06)
ratcheted up. Where with us, maybe it was a pair of brand new shoes.

Once every three months, four months, a year, let's be real, with them, every day there's something new. And so and so got this. So it's like the ch the parents are always like, I just don't want them to feel like I left out. I don't want them to feel excluded. I just I w cause they probably also went through that. So it's triggering that feeling in them of ex being excluded. Does that they're almost

Kim Muench (16:31)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:31)
displacing some of what they went through

onto their children and making sure their children don't feel any of those feelings and then as a result it

Kim Muench (16:40)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:41)
it goes back to when they've had no adversity, it removes all motiv they almost can't figure out who they are if you take away all adversity.

Kim Muench (16:50)
Well, yes. And yeah, no ability to persevere, resilience,

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:55)
Yes.

Kim Muench (16:55)
have the grit to get through it because they haven't had to experience it. So that's absolutely, you know, happening with a lot of young people. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (17:03)
Grit. We removed grit. We removed grit

and we removed scrappiness. Well if you think about it, we did. You're not just keeping up with the Joneses who are next door or within your local community. It's the Joneses. Joneses are now worldwide. Yes. And

Kim Muench (17:18)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (17:19)
I know we've done it. We've spent stupid amounts of money on a pair of shoes.

And it's like, why are we doing this? But at the same time, that's at a younger age. It it changes though, right? I w I have to assume it changes when the kids are younger, you kinda do it so that everything stays harmonious.

And then but at some point maybe it trickles into adulthood and it feels like that's what Or the results or the results of doing it for eighteen years you're seeing in it in the in the lost in place. I was gonna say fail failure to launch. The lost in place or the the independently

Kim Muench (17:51)
No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (17:54)
challenged what did you say before about in independent

Kim Muench (17:56)
Did

delayed independence, delayed independence. That's what we're calling it. We're calling it delayed independence because

GenX Adulting Podcast (17:57)
It was not delayed delayed independence.

Kim Muench (18:04)
I have also seen, and I'm sure we'll get to this at some point, but I have also seen parents have the ability to to parent through this and things for things to move forward. So delayed independence

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:14)
Right, right.

Kim Muench (18:16)
is what we're talking about.

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:17)
So would you say that to sum it up that this delayed independence that you're seeing in young adults that are in their twenties and early thirties, much of it is rooted in Gen X trying to create this perfect childhood for their kids from zero to eighteen? And then you see the results

Kim Muench (18:35)
I

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:35)
thereafter?

Kim Muench (18:37)
I I think it's part of it. I also think we can't possibly understand, going back to screens for a second,

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:44)
Right, right.

Kim Muench (18:45)
we can't possibly understand how young people who have seen things before they're able to wrap their heads around it. I mean, I shootings, whatever whatever,

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:56)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (18:58)
porn, whatever, all all the things that

young people have been exposed to long before they could handle it or make sense of it have affected to them have affected them.

GenX Adulting Podcast (19:08)
Mm.

Kim Muench (19:09)
And I think that also contributes to their feeling hopeless about growing up and and s and working hard for themselves. So there's that

also that's influencing what's going on. They're just they're feeling like they'll never be able to, have a house or have the things that a and when actually I I agree and I and and I think in a lot of respects we need to understand that's where they're coming from and

I also think there's never been an easier time to start and create a business and, you know, make money and not have to work for the man eighty hours a week. You're at least gonna be working for yourself. Like I I think there's

GenX Adulting Podcast (19:51)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (19:52)
opportunities if you're a young person to take your talents, your the thing that you love doing the most and create a business out of that. And I I don't I think it's easier now than ever to be able to do that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (20:06)
Well, it's interesting 'cause you what you're describing with the screens, it's almost overwhelming. And then you throw in number three, the weed. And it really it's such a mis misnomer, misunderstanding, false information that weed solves anxiety, causes it for most people. Right? So then now you've got the doom scroll with the high potency weed.

It's not a great mix. Well, because when you're high like that, especially the strength of the p marijuana now is nothing compared to what we experience in the eighties. And what we experienced in the eighties was nothing compared to what was experienced in the sixties. But now it's like a heavy drug. And I I agree with you. I think for most people it creates that spiraling where you get in your head and everything that's if you're fed anything negative, it looks a million times worse. You're in turn

interpreting it a million times worse when you're in that state than what it it's overwhelming. Your perspective is shot. So it's like the perfect storm if you think about it.

Kim Muench (21:09)
Yeah.

I d that's where I think we're at. And that's why I believe this is this is a global problem because obviously, screens are everywhere, right? And the

GenX Adulting Podcast (21:19)
Right.

Kim Muench (21:20)
and the culture of being told or the the messaging that we have been given over the last decade or whatever that weed helps you with your anxiety and whatnot has been really has has been

really broadcast out there and and bought into, it's natural. It's, better

GenX Adulting Podcast (21:40)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (21:41)
than drinking. It's and and nobody's arguing that drinking is a good thing to do. It's just it these things are coping th this is the way you're coping and you're not getting to what is the core issue, what is the reason.

that you're you have, this anxiety and working on that as opposed to self-medicating with some kind of substance or behavior like gaming or watching porn or,

GenX Adulting Podcast (22:05)
Right.

Kim Muench (22:06)
whatever it is. We we have many, many things that can really hook you gambling, you know, all of these things

GenX Adulting Podcast (22:12)
Yes.

Kim Muench (22:12)
can hook you in and they're the escape mechanism.

they're not the core issue. What we have and and that's what I work with parents on is like as we're talking, we need to figure out is the core issue that they need some structure through a job, is the core issue that they can't possibly have a job right now because they can't eat they're not even showered in the last three weeks. That's that core issue is it's mental health and we need to start working towards having them

participate in their mental health before we can say get just get a jan damn job by the end of the month. That like that's not that's not gonna be the answer because if they do, if they if they get themselves together enough to even get that job, they're not gonna keep it. And then that's another failure to them. And that's the other thing that's happening is that they're racking up failures. And the more failures that they have, the less they want to try. The less they, you know, the the more difficult it is for them to get back out there

and try again.

GenX Adulting Podcast (23:18)
Are you do you get involved when it's almost at an intervention state?

Kim Muench (23:26)
that's a good question. Do I I don't I will help parents my role as a coach is to listen to understand, to ask questions that help them gain clarity because nobody knows their son or daughter better than they do. And let's face it, we only know our kids as well as they'll share themselves with us.

But I'm certainly not going to, especially in some of the difficult circumstances that I work with parents in, I'm not going to tell them what to do. I'm going to listen. I'm going to ask questions that lead them to know that the core issue is mental health and we need to work on the mental health. Now, of course, the young person does not want to work on their mental health, right? They don't see

the problem.

GenX Adulting Podcast (24:14)
Right.

Kim Muench (24:15)
They don't want to work on it. And the parents are saying, this is another thing.

And we this is I don't I don't want to segue off here, but I don't want to lose it in my menopause brain.

So I listen to understand. I ask questions to help parents gain the clarity that's needed in their situation with their son or daughter. If we determine as we're talking, and and they they definitely know that it's a substance use issue that needs to be

addressed, I will connect them with someone that can use their insurance if if their son or daughter's on their insurance. You know, like I don't get involved in that because I don't know what treatment centers are good, not good. You know, I I wanna pass

GenX Adulting Podcast (24:55)
Right.

Kim Muench (24:56)
them off to somebody. So when it gets to a place where there is a substance use issue and treatment is really what's needed.

I will pass them off to somebody that I trust to work with them on that. And then I will stay involved because when and if that person does go to treatment and then comes home afterwards, we want to make sure that we have a solid family living agreement in place that they're coming back to. So I will stay involved.

GenX Adulting Podcast (25:25)
So you have a network of people that resources that you can ref not officially refer, but can recommend to help, kind of like a a team?

Kim Muench (25:34)
Yes, there's a few yeah, there yeah. Yes,

there's a few people that I trust, not to you know, the treatment world is like can be really challenging because you never know what's really good and what's not really good and they're all expensive, right? It it's it and

GenX Adulting Podcast (25:49)
Mm. Yeah.

Kim Muench (25:52)
I've been the parent who has been in a scramble to try and figure out where do I

put my son. I know how difficult that is and how expensive again that is. So I can't know everything about, you know, a certain topic or whatever. So I'd much rather hand that over to someone that I trust who I've worked with in the past to help this family f identify the right

places for their son or daughter to go and to give them a couple of decent choices because I think when you have a young person that is being asked to go into treatment and they're hesitant if not completely reluctant to be able to give them two solid choices that they can choose between is helpful.

GenX Adulting Podcast (26:40)
So when it is a mental health issue and you had said that getting the child or the young adult, the first step is helping them get help just for their mental health before you can even expect them to hold a job or to be productive. Are j what ways do you guide those parents on how to help that young adult

acknowledge that they even need help because like you said, you know, they're gonna push back on that.

Kim Muench (27:11)
Yeah, it is a slow process.

And before that can even be attempted, in terms of the parent saying, We think you need help for your mental health, and then the kid pushing back and saying, No, there's not a problem, parents, the only way that they have any influence, and I don't mean control, I just mean influence in the most positive sense of the of the word, is if they have relationship or connection with their son or daughter. So if every conversation up until the point that the

Parents have come to coaching has been around why aren't you working? You have a mental health issue, blah blah blah. And they don't really have a relationship with this young person. That is the place we need to start. And sometimes, especially if the days and nights are mixed up, because lots of these young people are nocturnal, you know, they're they're avoiding

GenX Adulting Podcast (28:04)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (28:05)
the world, they're avoiding their families, they're you know, so it it is something that takes.

Patience and it takes time for the parent to make small connections. That might mean trying to have a family dinner once a week. It might it might mean walking the dog, you know, a couple times a week with mom. Any small time of investment. But I have seen over time, and when pa and believe me, parents when this

When it when the kid comes around like quicker and kid, I'm I'm I don't know why we say kids when there's I'm I have a thirty nine year old who's still a kid. but when they when

GenX Adulting Podcast (28:45)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Kim Muench (28:48)
the young people I don't mean that in any negative way, when they when the parent starts to see they are making connections with this kid, the kid is more invested in the relationship, they're willing to watch TV with the parent, they're willing to, you know, come to dinner once in a while, the parent then I

And

under it's understandable, but they want to rush to what's next? How do we how do we get them doing the next thing? And if they do that too fast, you have complete regression. The kid

GenX Adulting Podcast (29:18)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (29:18)
does not then trust you, you know, like you literally sometimes before that mental health help can even possibly be offered or thought about, you have to re-establish connection and the relationship. And that takes time. You're rebuilding the trust.

Because this young person, for whatever reason, maybe they've had a couple of failures, maybe they just they feel like crap about themselves and they they, you know, they really like

pull into themselves and the parent, the more desperate they seem to spend time with them to fix the problem, to find the solution, the less that young person wants it. It just, it's it like they don't even feel worthy of it or s or I'm not, I'm not sure what it is. But then the parent, if they just relax

And try to reconnect with the kid just over simple simple things that they're, you know, time little time here and there, little things that I'm trying to think of a lot of this. I'm just trying to think of examples of parents that I've worked with and a lot of it happens over meals, occasional meals. Sometimes, you know, it can be if they have a family dog that they will walk the dog. Sometimes dad and son maybe used to golf together and they haven't done that in months and months, and dad will be vulnerable.

vulnerable and maybe he's been bitching for the last several months about get a job and decides to come back in and just hey would you want to go golfing and then during that time they're golfing absolutely do not bring up the job do not bring up

GenX Adulting Podcast (30:52)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (30:53)
you know this is about reconnecting so it's relationship building while also you know trying to set some healthy boundaries that's gonna be that's gonna come behind it

But the relationship building is like the first step.

GenX Adulting Podcast (31:09)
So

In a lot of these situations, do you think the relationship building, and maybe not even this specific situations with your clients, but let's say in general, when the parents find that they're having to do relationship building when their young adult is in their 20s or early 30s, do you think that that didn't occur as much as it should have through zero to eighteen? Do you think that they were more managing their children and not having that relationship?

Building at that time, and that's why they're having to tackle this now. Not to parent blame, but just to be frank, I guess.

Kim Muench (31:49)
It's possible. I have thought of that. The other thing I think of, and I I I've never brought this up. This is like something I've never this is between you and I and all of your listeners.

GenX Adulting Podcast (31:59)
Mm.

Kim Muench (32:00)
I have wondered.

Ca I and I don't have data behind this. so I I don't know for cer for certain, but I have wondered because also this generation is the first that spent a lot of time like in daycare, you know, when they were babies and younger. And not to say that some millennials didn't go to daycare and whatnot, but I think that this generation of say late teens to up to age 30.

lots of moms were back at work or didn't were working and whatnot. And I think a lot of this group ended up in daycare. And I this is not me blaming women and working and I'm just curious if how many of the parents that I work with were two working families and their young person went to daycare for many years before they went to school and things and the attachment

wasn't built. I don't know the answer to that. I that's certainly not something I ask parents, but it's one of the things that I think of. And when I have I I actually have asked on occasion, and there have been moms that have been like, I was home. I was home every day. I was, I was involved

GenX Adulting Podcast (33:14)
Right.

Kim Muench (33:15)
in the classes, blah, blah, blah. So this is why I'm saying this is one of the things I've wondered, but I don't know that it's a hard and fast rule by any means.

GenX Adulting Podcast (33:25)
Right, right. And it could and again, it could all go back to if especially if you're talking about Gen X parents.

the overcompensating that we did. and if we, especially if we did overcompensate without relationship building. And I think so much of it is if we overcompensated without accountability, without punishment, without

boundaries, without rules, without chores, all the things we grew up with, you know, there how many kids are truly mowing their lawn and how many parents pay people to do that? You know what I mean? It's it's how many kids truly have chores in their

House and how many kids don't? And it's just the that that balance, I guess. I don't I think I think as we were going through raising these kids and just so wanting to make sure it was all good, did we balance on the other side too enough? And I I don't know. I feel like in so many instances we didn't. And I love Gen Z. As a generation, I think they're amazing. I love Gen Z. But

And a and so many Gen Zers are thriving, right? They're not, they don't have delayed independence. They've done just fine. So it's not it's not a statement on the generation as a whole. But

Kim Muench (34:41)
No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (34:41)
I I think going back, I do think in addition to maybe the overcompensating, it's the screens, which there's so many layers to that. There's so many layers because, like you brought up, porn is huge. It's so many dopamine hits, right? Porn, gambling, gaming, seeing things you're not supposed to see, foam.

From seeing what everyone else is doing and more there's so many you could do a whole episode on just how screens have affected the youth. And then the marijuana use. I so I do think it's this it's again, I keep going back, it's this perfect storm. but then and then so you end up as a parent with if you have a child with delayed independence, that relationship building when they're an adult.

Like you said, I would think one of the hardest things for a parent to experience is you feel like you got it and you feel the connection and you feel the groove with them and then to bite your tongue and not say the thing you want to say and not say, So what do you think about maybe what job do you want to maybe look at? Or do you want to go get some clothes maybe for a job and that's gotta take so much self-control because it's just in your inside of you as a parent, you so badly want that for them. And you're like, okay, things feel

really good, let's take it to the next step. Well and understanding, do you give them a time frame? do you say for three months if you're feeling that groove, still don't say anything? Do you guide them with a literal timeframe?

Kim Muench (36:12)
I don't know if we're that literal because you're you're trying to figure out the nuance of each family too, right? I

don't know it's

GenX Adulting Podcast (36:18)
Right.

Kim Muench (36:18)
if it can be prescripted to it is more weeks than parents want. And I see them typically once a week, either in the group setting or privately when I'm working with someone. And, you know, it's just kind of like, okay, t report in kind of on what's happened in the last week and and and I maybe on my end

A little bit is intuitive at times too when saying to parents, I know it feels really good right now, things are going really well. I just want you to wait until the next time we see each other and then we'll talk about. And I might make an appointment with them two weeks later. I might, I I

GenX Adulting Podcast (36:57)
Okay.

Kim Muench (36:58)
I just it it never goes as fast as the parent wants. And when they push it, regression happens. So

GenX Adulting Podcast (37:07)
Right.

Kim Muench (37:08)
I I think they're at a place where they're like,

Okay, I'm just I'm gonna listen and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go with your like guidance on this because the last thing I want is to go backwards. I'm so excited that we have, you know, participation in family meals a couple times, or that my son and I can go and volunteer our time together and he's willing to leave the house to do that. these are all like it's crazy it's it's honestly crazy what some parents are

are living with quite frankly. it is

GenX Adulting Podcast (37:40)
Well, you need both

parents too to be on the same page, right? You might be willing

Kim Muench (37:44)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (37:44)
to be patient, I might be pushing, vice versa. How do you

Kim Muench (37:44)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (37:48)
how do you handle when the parents are not on the same page and how they approach this?

Kim Muench (37:54)
It can be really difficult. And I have worked with parents who first of all, it's typically mom that reaches out to me first and she may have a very willing husband that's willing to, you know, participate into sessions, or at least if they can't participate in every session, they might, you know, she's like, No, he's not gonna throw me under the bus. No, he's gonna, you know, he's gonna come along. He may just may not be able to be in all of these sessions with us or whatever.

But when you have two parents, and I've I've had this situation recently, and there gets to a place where if you have two parents that they really cannot work together, they're really not it makes it I don't know how to get I honestly don't know how to get through it. There's levels of parents working together. Like they don't have to all say the same words and have exactly the same message. Everybody's got a little different approach, but you have to be

The two of you have to be on the same page. Cause when you think about it, and I hate to say it this way, but if you have one young person who is struggling and two solid parents who are coming from a place of love and they're working together, and dad maybe is takes takes a step back from being so intense and he's a little more emotionally connected. He's working on, you know, connecting with the kid and the mom

is not overcompensating by being a marshmallow, but she steps in and starts to get, some some personal boundaries for herself. Not, she's not going to do certain things for the kid anymore, blah, blah, blah. So if you've got this p this this movement in the parents, that absolutely is the best possible scenario. When you had don't have these two parents willing to work together.

GenX Adulting Podcast (39:46)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (39:47)
It's easy to stay in this dynamic forever. So and and I have seen that. And there does get to a point where I'll just be like, I don't I there's no miracle here. This is hard work. And if the two of you can't find a way to work together in the best interest of your adult son or daughter who is at home and not moving forward in their lives, because I do believe that parents have more control than they think.

But it's not about trying to control the behavior of their son or daughter. It's about how they show up.

GenX Adulting Podcast (40:23)
It's influence.

Kim Muench (40:25)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (40:27)
I'm curious. what's the right question here? Are these single? Are there is it like one kid out of three? Is it the oldest,

Kim Muench (40:34)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (40:35)
the

youngest? What what are the dynamics there?

Kim Muench (40:38)
Yeah, this is interesting. I work with and and I will ask fairly early in this situation, you know, like during a consultation, is this your only or do you have other adult children? Because that's helpful for me to know. and I work with parents of only's. I work with parents of only's who are adopted and were adopted at birth. I work with parents of multiple children, four fifths of them are kicking and you know, thriving.

And this one is not. And that this one might be the middle child, might be the youngest child. It doesn't I there's no rhyme or reason to that. But I would say the bulk of the parents that I work with do have other adult children that are doing really, really well.

GenX Adulting Podcast (41:25)
And they can't pinpoint why it's this what like can can they ever pinpoint, well this happened at this time in our lives and so that might have some like COVID. Right. Like it can

Kim Muench (41:37)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (41:37)
they it like that obviously is a way to pinpoint for that kid if that was their experience, right? Especially if like they're

Kim Muench (41:43)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (41:44)
the last or the youngest. Yeah.

Kim Muench (41:46)
Yes. And I think there are times when this young person maybe experienced bullying during middle school that, you know, their their siblings didn't experience or some something like that. I haven't necessarily seen where it's been you know, and and and remember, I I talk with the parents ninety nine point nine percent of the time. There are times when I have been able to talk to that young person. They are willing

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:14)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (42:14)
to come

and share their perspective with me because they know their parents are working on their parenting and they're willing. Sometimes, sometimes they want to talk to me because they want to tell me exactly where their parents need help. And actually

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:23)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (42:27)
they're happy that their parents are actually getting help. They they actually do want

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:30)
Yes, yes.

Kim Muench (42:32)
their parents to get help. So, but 99% of the time I'm only talking with parents. And that's a that's a a fair piece of the puzzle I don't have.

i is this young person's perspective and their perception of the relationship they've had with their mom or dad.

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:49)
Right.

Kim Muench (42:50)
I only get the parents' perspective and I you know that can be something that's really important as well. We we sometimes don't realize or we have our own perceptions of the parent that we were to each of our kids. And maybe that's not their reality or that what they experienced.

GenX Adulting Podcast (43:11)
Well, to go through something like this as a parent, it requires a huge dose of humility, right? And self awareness. You yeah.

Kim Muench (43:17)
Absolutely. I I I I

they have so much courage, the parents that are willing to ask for help and admit that they know that they are part of the problem and they're willing to work on themselves. It takes a huge amount of yes, humility and courage to ask for the help.

GenX Adulting Podcast (43:35)
'Cause they're almost having

to grow along with their child. It's a partnership.

Kim Muench (43:39)
you're saying you're saying exactly. I always I always

say to my my parent group, and I usually have about 30 parents on each of these calls. And you know, I'll say to them, your young person going through something difficult, or you know, you taking steps back so that there's a gap and they have the opportunity to step in is your growth. You have

GenX Adulting Podcast (44:02)
Yes.

Kim Muench (44:03)
an opportunity to grow right alongside if it and they

I think that helps them to have a framing. I'm asking my young person to do something really hard. And really hard might be to make the phone call to the therapist or something like that. But the parent holding space is what I call it, holding space for them, believing that believing that they will do it, that they can do it, you know, having that more positive mental mindset.

Being aware that the kid may never do this, but also being in the energy and the mindset of I'm gonna hold space for him. I'm just gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna believe that he can do it and I'm you know, that is their growth.

GenX Adulting Podcast (44:50)
Yeah. Big time. Big time. it's it's not easy. We have three and we have an age gap. And the difference between the oldest and the youngest, and just from a societal perspective, our youngest is far more in touch with his emotions. So you have to meet them there. We didn't have to necessarily do that previously. Which we should have. And you have I know you have five children, so you know exactly what we're talking about. I wish I could go back

And be more the parent I was to my youngest, to my oldest. the oldest is always gets us as we're they're the guinea pigs, right? He's turned out pretty

Kim Muench (45:21)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (45:23)
good. he's amazing. But I think that's just how he was born. I don't know if that anything to do with us. We didn't totally screw him up. We didn't totally screw him up. But I I don't know. But this is what I will say. He's our compliant child. And I always say this, I think the compliant children have to be watched even more closely because everyone assumes they're fine.

And he did great in school and he didn't have to study and he he succeeded at everything. He's one of those kids, right? But those kids have anxiety and depression and insomnia and and insecurities and have a lot going on. But because they're so high functioning that and if you have another child in the house that needs you in other ways, those compliant children can end up being ignored to some degree in maybe areas that they needed more attention. And I feel that's where I

failed my oldest, even though he's wonderful and doing great, I wish I could go back and be check in with him more, check in with him more. I didn't check in enough as I should have. And he probably would have been fine, but as a parent I should have. And I'm wondering, because eldest children, especially eldest daughters, tend to high function and tend to do very well, how many with your clients, how many of these kids would you say are the eldest kids in the family?

Probably not many, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Muench (46:43)
say I'm not. Yeah. it's either a middle

or a youngest. And I would say I don't know if it's because this is who comes to me or if this is reflectant of the issue that we have, but I would say eighty percent of the clients I have have a son between eighteen and thirty two.

a son. So more young men are struggling than young women, I would I would say, just based on the number of parents I talk to and the and the clients that I work with. that's not to say that young women don't have, you know, issues, challenges and whatnot. They have different issues and challenges. And more I don't know if it's because I have four sons, or I've I've you know my personal story has been a lot about my oldest son.

that

people with sons are finding me or if it's just reflection that there are more young men than young women that are struggling at this point.

GenX Adulting Podcast (47:43)
But do you think that that ties back to screens and porn and gaming and gambling and marijuana use is

Kim Muench (47:50)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (47:51)
more prevalent, I think, in general, right, with young men than young women. I do think there's

Kim Muench (47:55)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (47:56)
there's been an assault on young men and traditional values and behaviors and stuff too though. The whole there was no such word as misogyny ten years ago. And and to for these young men to hear what that means and it c is with

The backdrop of traditional male values and behavior, I think there's some confusion there. I think that it's an it's a very positive thing that that word exists and is used as much as it is, and the word patriarchy and all that. I think these are things that obviously need to be brought to light and discussed. But I don't I'm what you're saying, I understand. I think there should have been a conversation where the young men didn't feel an as you're saying an assault.

Somewhat of an assault on the values that the role models of before them exhibited. But I think I'm not saying that behavior's good. Right. I'm just saying it's different. And there was a transition, and and we're on the forefront of that transition because I do think statistically this certainly affects young men more so than young women. It there's just been a shift. There's been an empowerment of for women, which is awesome and wonderful. There's been a degradation in some ways that might be a

But

There's an ascension for women and there's a dissension for men. I don't know the right word, but you know what I mean? There's a there's a role shift. And I think it's wonderful for women. It's awesome. Women's empowerment empowerment, strength, independence is absolutely wonderful and phenomenal. But the flip side to that is the other the binary choice of the men. And then maybe they're fulfilling that with the screens and the marijuana. I think they are. You know.

Kim Muench (49:43)
Yeah. absolutely.

There's I I women young women, I know that they're, you know, definitely can get hooked into what does everyone else look like and comparison and whatnot on scrolling and stuff like that. Sure, that happens and they can do their own certain amount of doom scrolling. Yet young men, I'm sure, are the ones that are targeted for gambling, for gaming, you know, for a and if they're winning

in front of their screen in their own

GenX Adulting Podcast (50:14)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (50:14)
room and they're that's where they're socializing. They're they're making friends by socializing with other, young men online. There's no risk there. There's there's there's no risk in

GenX Adulting Podcast (50:25)
Yes.

Kim Muench (50:25)
your room. You're in your, and there's a risk going out and asking someone on a date and maybe getting rejected or, you know, just trying to make a friend. I my so I have two twenty-somethings that are living at home, my son Maddox, who you met earlier.

GenX Adulting Podcast (50:41)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (50:42)
And

my daughter Mia. And Maddox recently moved, he went to school. We live in the Dallas area. He went to school at the University of Arizona in Tucson and he graduated last May. He wanted to stay and start his life there. So he did and he stayed for about a year. And then the jobs weren't really what working out the way he wanted and whatnot. And he earlier this year said

Hey, I don't wanna I I I'd like to come back home for a while. I I'm not gonna stay in Texas. I don't wanna stay in Texas, but I'd like to come back. My mom has dementia and he's close to her and he just he wanted to come home and kind of regroup. So he's been doing that, but he's also been talking honestly about how difficult it is to make friends.

he's not really connected to those kids that he went to high school with anymore. Some of are here, most of them are not. They're moved on with their lives. So trying to figure out is a twenty something. Fortunately he has a couple of brothers that live in the area and that's been helpful. but you know, it's hard to I think it's hard for young people to make friends in their twenties if they didn't have good strong friendships like during college.

GenX Adulting Podcast (51:56)
Right. Yeah. I think that that and then like you said, going out and like asking someone out on a date face to face, like that is such a risk now for this age group because everything is so done online, you know, through the phone, through dating apps, through DMs, that things that the men of our generation had to do, they had no choice, right? So and and there's the dealing with adversity again. The adversity has been

Kim Muench (52:23)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (52:24)
removed even

like outside. So their adversity now is in a way kind of what your son's going through is everything seems to be so online that even making friends not online is challenging. It's flipped. It's easier to have a

Kim Muench (52:40)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (52:41)
social world online

than it is in real life. And our oldest talked about how COVID kinda stint staunted folks socially, where you were so withdrawn, right? We were isol literally isolated. Things shut down. You've lost a lot of those social cues. Now you kinda have to rehome them and it's just a challenge. It's another challenge or obstacle.

Kim Muench (53:05)
Yes. Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (53:06)
For sure.

when when does supporting your young adult in in this delayed independence become enabling?

Kim Muench (53:17)
Mm,

that's such a good and and I'm gonna

GenX Adulting Podcast (53:19)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (53:21)
I'm gonna I'm gonna start by sharing what I feel is a definition of helping versus enabling and then maybe we can talk about it a little bit further. So to me, helping is when you do something for someone they can't do for themselves. You it it it's a way to it's a step that helps them gain skills that they need.

It's often in the context of a family situation reciprocated. So help is often reciprocated, right? can you do the dishes if I cook dinner tonight? We have this deal at our house, 'cause I really with twenty I did I just did not want to be back in the seat. That was my greatest fear with my two twenty somethings coming back home to live was like, I don't wanna be back to where I gotta figure out what's for dinner every night 'cause I'm at a different stage in my life.

And so we have this, we have we have, you know, this like

GenX Adulting Podcast (54:14)
Yes. Yes.

Kim Muench (54:18)
we do this, you do that. Some nights, you know, they do offer to cook and then we of course clean up. So helping is helping might look like, I don't know how to apply for this job, that you would sit down next to them and you would they're they're in charge of the c the computer and the application and whatever. Maybe this is community college. I'm not sure what it is. You know, it's something that they

You come up alongside of them and you're there to support, you're there to answer questions, but that's help. They're gaining skills because you're alongside of them. Enabling is when you do something for someone they can and should be doing for themselves. It's often one way and it starts to build resentment, in this case, in the parent. It starts to build resentment.

GenX Adulting Podcast (55:05)
Right.

Kim Muench (55:07)
Because they're they know they they continue to say yes, w maybe it's giving money, maybe it's l you know, whatever it c whatever it might be, but they the parent knows on some level that they shouldn't be doing this at this point and they do it anyway because they're over functioning. That's enabling.

GenX Adulting Podcast (55:27)
Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. I remember and you mentioned it earlier, which reminded me in your when we met the first time you talked about the living agreement. I think is it that's right, the the family living agreement. Family living agreement. So two

Kim Muench (55:38)
Family living agreement, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (55:41)
th multi part question, maybe. One, do you talk about it in your book? And did you do you have that in place now with the kids coming back?

Kim Muench (55:52)
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We did with both of

them. and yes, I there's a whole section on a family living agreement. And if parents that as we're recording this, if they pre-order the book, they will receive the template that I use with families

GenX Adulting Podcast (56:07)
Mm.

Kim Muench (56:08)
that I'm working in private coaching with. So yes, that's part of it. And the reader will have access to that when, you know, when as the book is out. and yes, because of what I do.

When

my daughter said, both of them said earlier this year that they wanted to come back home. My daughter was in an apartment about a half hour from us and she was just quite frankly tired of paying rent. She is a couple years left of college left and she wanted to move out, and we told her at the time, like, we're behind this, but we're not gonna pay for it. And so two years in, you know, she's like, I just I I wanna I wanna move home because I

i it's just exhausting to try and, keep this up, blah, blah, blah. So her living agreement looks different than my son who, as I mentioned earlier, moved home earlier this year. our so my so part of what we did was my husband and I really figuring out what are the non negotiables. If they're coming to live back home, they're coming as an adult and we need to redefine what the relationship looks like and and

clearly be able to state what we won't be flexible on. There's lots of ways that we can be flexible, but what are the one, two, or at the very most, three things that you wouldn't negotiate on if you have an adult child living with you or going to move back in with you? So this is one of the most important tools that I use with families is working with parents to figure out what are those non-negotiables.

what areas can we be flexible on and then how to have the conversation with their son or daughter that is productive about it. Because this is the other thing parents, get they get funny about is like they're like, this seems so formal. Like I don't I don't like I don't even know how to bring this to my kid because they're gonna be so offended or like, you know, when we have found with b with both of our kids that and I have found in working with other parents

Actually that young person appreciates the clarity. They appreciate

GenX Adulting Podcast (58:19)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (58:19)
the clarity and the reference that they have to this document. It it helps it really helps all the parties. yeah, so

GenX Adulting Podcast (58:31)
They're like the rubric generation, right? So this is almost fits into that model of here's what mom and dad expect, here's what my non negotiables are, whatever that is. Yeah. Well it gives them structure. Yeah. Because

Kim Muench (58:43)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (58:44)
which I think goes back to what I talked about is how many kids are mowing the lawn, how many kids are truly doing chores particip. We grew up with so much well w it's weird. Giant Gen X had expectations and structure.

to a fault, you better do those chores or else type of stuff. But then we had no structure where people weren't keeping an eye on us and we were just out in a field drunk and they thought we were spending the night at someone's house. So it was like a weird right. It's a weird thing for us. But yeah, exactly.

Kim Muench (59:08)
That's true, yeah. I've I've been both.

GenX Adulting Podcast (59:13)
But we were either getting the belt or they didn't know where we were. It's kind of that mentality

Kim Muench (59:16)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (59:17)
of just take care of your shit. And then you're lawless. Yeah, and then you're lawless. But I then

Kim Muench (59:21)
Ha ha ha.

GenX Adulting Podcast (59:22)
as we were raising kids, like or as we're raising kids in general in general in general, there's I'm

not saying every Gen X parent, but maybe through that creation of this wonderful childhood, we did not implement enough structure. And that could also then for certain kids

contribute to that delayed independence. And so with this family living agreement, for some families, this could be the four first time that there's you use the word formal, that there is formal structure. And that's why they maybe feel uncomfortable presenting it to their kid because maybe their kids never been presented with structure at all. It is communications too, right? It's a formal form of communication. Yes.

Kim Muench (1:00:05)
Well,

i it is it I can I can understand and respect and appreciate some parents being like, This is our family, like we shouldn't have this have to have this agreement. Well, I've seen how how helpful it can be again to redefine the relationship because now you're adults living under the same roof and you do not want to treat your twenty five, thirty year old

as if they're 15 and that's what tends to happen without the clarity of sitting down and talking through an agreement. And let me just say this is a collaborative process. So while the parents need to upfront think about what are the couple of things we're not willing to negotiate on, everything else gets done in the context of sitting down and having a discussion. What does it look like to have overnight guests? Is that a you know, is that you know

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:00:59)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:01:01)
What does

it what does substance use in the house look like? I I mean, I don't know if you've come and encountered this with your children or not. there are many parents who, you know, they have someone who's 24, 25 living in their home and they maybe smoke weed, vape weed, drink alcohol, and they wanna watch their favorite show in their bedroom while having a glass of wine and they don't see a problem with that. And the parent, it's it like

It's very it's hard for them to accept that because they are going into thinking, well, one glass leads to two, and then she's bringing a bottle of wine in her room. And then, we've literally created the conditions under which she becomes an alcoholic. So that's where their mind goes. It's okay.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:01:45)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:01:45)
And so then figuring out and talking through, we're not telling you you can't have a glass of wine, you can't watch your favorite show. We would ask that you would do that in a common area of the house. Go to the basement

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:01:57)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:01:57)
rec room, go to the media room.

Have that glass of wine, enjoy your show. What we're what we'd like to set a boundary around is you behind closed doors, laying in your bed, having that bottle of wine, and that becoming potentially a habit that leads you where, it wouldn't be productive.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:02:19)
Right. No, that makes sense. And yes.

Kim Muench (1:02:20)
It's a slippery slope. it's s like I'm I'm telling

you, the stuff that I that that

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:02:25)
Yeah, yeah.

Kim Muench (1:02:26)
when you have an adult child living at home and it just it can be, interesting, the things that I hear from parents. overnight guests, your

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:02:37)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:02:38)
thirty year old, they wanna they wanna have a relationship with someone. And

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:02:41)
Yeah. Right.

Kim Muench (1:02:43)
how does that look when you're all living under the same roof and you know?

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:02:49)
And that's where it gets interesting because you would think even in that situation, that would motivate a young adult enough to be like, okay, I need to I need to get out of here because I want to have this person. I want privacy. I want privacy,

Kim Muench (1:03:01)
One would hope. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:03:04)
right? So it's almost like

I don't know. Are you are you at that point are you dealing with a real mental health issue if even something like that isn't give isn't the push they need? Because it seems like that would be such a big push is that privacy for intimacy. But I don't know, or maybe they really don't care and they're fine with it. But I just I I'm thinking about my kids. My they when they lived, they both lived at home after college.

And then and then again another time our son, our daughter's here now for the next two months, I don't think they ever brought anyone home. I think if they were gonna do that it was at the other person's place. 'cause they they didn't feel comfortable. But I assume it's my job to make them feel awkward too. Well So

Kim Muench (1:03:52)
Ha ha ha.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:03:54)
Yeah, but and I'm not putting I'm not I don't mean to sound I'm not judging. I'm not judging. I'm just express I'm just sharing my our experience as parents. And so I'm trying to picture one of my kids bringing someone home and having them sleep at the house. They they just wouldn't have felt comfortable enough for themselves to do that. But I maybe just with some young adults, it's not an issue. I think it depends though if it's like hey, you got lucky, you went out, you got lucky and and it wound up

A

peer, that's one thing, but to have a relationship and maybe if we were funding the whole thing and they didn't have a job, that would be pretty awkward. Yeah, I don't

Kim Muench (1:04:33)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:04:34)
know. But also when we were growing up, like a if a guy was like, Do you want to come back to my parents' house? And we were like twenty-eight, we would have judged that. We would have been like, What do you mean go back to your parents' house? You're twenty-eight. Where

Kim Muench (1:04:47)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:04:47)
in this generation, it's so common, I think, now for so many to be living with their parents that that wouldn't satisfy.

You know, like I do you want to come back to my parents? You know what I mean? So it's become normative in some to some degree. I don't know.

Kim Muench (1:05:01)
Yeah, it's just it's

it's it's like I said, there's there's several sections to this agreement and not every section applies. And and I always tell parents, like, create the non negotiables. You wanna ta you don't wanna sit down with this eight page document, because I think it's eight pages, you know. You want to strike out it's just a word document, like take out the sections, like

We don't really have a section for substance use with our own two kids. It's just it's not an issue and I don't feel that we need to put it in there. so that was taken out. Make it as short and as simple as possible before you sit down. And the sections that need to stay include the boundaries section for both parents and the young person. The young person also has the ability to put some parameters around, you know, maybe it's their

their space. One that comes to the top of my head is this young man under his boundary section let me know when people are gonna be working in the house or in the yard because he had a job where he slept late in the morning and inevitably the parents would schedule the person to come in and do some work on the house or, out in the yard and it was eight o'clock in the morning and it irritated the cr

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:20)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:06:20)
If if the parents would have a lot of this comes down to having reasonable communication and being able,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:27)
Yes.

Kim Muench (1:06:28)
even when you don't, even when you don't see eye to eye on it, to be able to talk it through. And we

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:34)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:06:34)
still have as Gen X, we definitely have this, it's my house, my rules, I'm paying for it.

Which is I I believe that on some level. It just doesn't need to be communicated in a way that makes you look like an Excuse me. I

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:50)
Yeah. Yeah,

yeah, no, I think and and that go ahead. What I have a multi part question if you want to go. I was just

Kim Muench (1:06:55)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:56)
gonna what does the role of shame how does the role of shame play out with young adults who are struggling with this delayed independence? Is is that a common theme? Do you mean shaming them or their own personal shame? Their own personal shame.

Kim Muench (1:07:14)
yeah.

I think there's I think they wouldn't admit it, but I think there's a lot of personal shame that they feel. They don't they know they're not where their peers are. They, they feel badly about that. Like I said, sometimes they've had a number of failures and that has led them to, really poor self worth and and that kind of thing. And what it tends to do is when the parent brings up difficult topics like

getting a job, moving out, anything that requires some adulting, it tends to make them respond from explosive, explo just yell at the parent, avoid

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:07:54)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:07:55)
the parent, shut down and just completely like the parent can be, you know, they can be sitting at the kitchen table or, you know, maybe they're passing each other in the hallway and the parent says something and the kid just doesn't like do it just doesn't

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:08:10)
Disassociates.

Kim Muench (1:08:10)
will not respond,

will not, yeah, just, so that is how I believe shame shows up from young people. Parents also have, you know, a lot of shame. They feel like they have failed. If they have someone at home who, you know, is much older than and and let's l I I just wanna I think it's important to say this here. There is nothing wrong.

With a young person still living in their family home, as long as everyone's working together, there's contribution to the household, whether that's financial or doing some of the jobs around the house, they're doing their own laundry, they're pitching, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. What we're talking about is the problem where the parents are really providing absolutely everything, and the young person is just not moving forward in their lives.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:09:07)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, that's that makes perfect sense and that's a great clarification. What were you gonna ask? just to almost to kind of get back to your book a little bit and and maybe your approach or methodology. We were talking earlier about the parents making a connection, right? The and so you wanna kind of ease into it and maybe dad goes golf and mom backs off a little bit, whatever that that dynamic is. It feels like that might be step one. It when we're in the process

Does the contract or agreement come in? How soon? How long do you have to work through that? And I know everything's different, right? Maybe it's a week or two, maybe it's two or three months, maybe it's a half a year, whatever. Is that the next step? Is the first you got the connection and then that you go into the living agreement or how's that kind of what's that evolution?

Kim Muench (1:09:59)
that's a good question. I I I don't know that that is always the next step. If it's determined during this like connection phase, or if if if in the process of asking them, this young person to take that next step, whether it's maybe take on the phone bill or apply to a couple of jobs, because could because you have

you've re-established connection over time and things are going better than they were. but the next step might be okay, let's work towards a job. And in the process of that, they start really regressing. To me, then that's a mental health issue. We gotta we gotta work on the mental health. Okay, I'm gonna I am gonna answer your question. And putting

you have to work on your mental health as part of the non negotiables in a family living agreement. I I it's I've never seen that go well.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:05)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:11:05)
They can, they can, parents have, and this this goes better if they say one of the non negotiables for our family living agreement is that we seek family counseling to work on our communication. That see that way you're you're

making this about your family and your your situ as opposed to trying to make someone get help that either they don't see see that they need or they don't want. Okay? So

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:37)
Mm-hmm. I I and

I do think you're answering it 'cause you first build

Kim Muench (1:11:40)
Okay.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:41)
the connection and then from that comes some tighter relationship to recognize that there's an emotional or maybe they need help. But so you don't

Kim Muench (1:11:50)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:50)
just jump right into it, right? You go a connection, get them help, let's get things stabilized. And then you s maybe get into that. It's so nuanced. totally.

Kim Muench (1:11:58)
Yeah.

I mean, I I that's why it's hard for me to because every family, I mean, there's some definite themes in what I do, and every family has a unique dynamic and dysfunctional patterns that we're dealing with. So it really is very it really is dependent on what the situation is. I will say this the one thing that every parent comes to me and says, and I may have said this in our last interview.

But I will not make my child homeless. See, we have this mentality

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:12:31)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:12:32)
of it's either gonna work this way or I gotta throw them out. And part of the family living agreement and part of what I coach parents to work through, and really we work on this, pretty diligently, is the consequences, the follow through. What happens when this agreement, because you need to have a section in there with

What are the steps? What happens if there isn't follow through? So, and that is something that the parents don't come up with alone. They come up with that, that is, that isn't a group discussion. That young person has a say, and really I want that young person to have input because I think it's gonna mean more than if the parents are basically this is we're we're talking about an agreement, not a contract. This is not

Parents coming up with, ten rules to live at home and handing it off and saying, this is if you want to live here, this is that's not what we're talking about. Talking about the parents getting clear on what they aren't willing to live with, the couple things they're not willing to live with, and then working through the rest of the agreement, including what happens if the agreement isn't being followed together.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:13:49)
Yeah. Feels like it's facilitating a conversation that's not been had in the past.

Kim Muench (1:13:55)
Yeah. Well, and it again, I think it's really starting a new chapter of you're an adult,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:14:00)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:14:02)
you're at home, we're not we're not going to treat you as if you're a teenager. We need we want your input. sometimes it takes a little bit of effort on the parents' part to get that young person to want to give their input.

Because the young person is so used to I'm the parent, you're the child, and pushing against that. When the parent changes their approach to let's work alongside each other, it takes them some time to like trust that that's really what the parent wants. So I tell parents like this, this may not be one discussion about, you know, we want to do this family living agreement. Likely initially, you might get some pushback.

But you're gonna continue the conversation,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:14:51)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:14:52)
you're gonna continue the conversation and you're gonna let them know that they are gonna have input. You want their input and this is this is what it's gonna look like to be, you know, you're an adult, you're not a teenager, we don't wanna te treat you like a teenager. So let's talk this through.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:15:10)
it really aligns with what you said about it's a new chapter and then you have to build that trust of this is a new relationship and they have to be able to trust their their parent isn't going to default to treating them like they're fifteen again. And that takes a

Kim Muench (1:15:22)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:15:25)
lot a lot of time to, you know, I'll believe it when I see it type of stuff. I was gonna ask you, we we've talked a lot about

y young adults living in in the home and how to deal with that. do you ever help people

whose young adult lives away but is having these same issues where there might be substance abuse, they're not having a job or a consistent job, they're not thriving, they are having delayed independence, even though they are not living in the home.

Kim Muench (1:15:58)
Yes, I I do work with with families in that situation and have a family support and independence agreement specifically for that. So basically it's for families who don't have someone living at home, but that person lives outside of the home is mainly financially funded by the parent. and so there's a whole there's a whole agreement for that and I do work with families in that situation. And quite frankly, sometimes

The reason they get to that situation is because living at home with that young person is so difficult that the parents are like, I'm just gonna pay for you to live elsewhere. which if I if they if they were to reach out to me before they got to that place, I would much rather have that than the parent, you know, getting the k this young person an apartment. I'll pay the first three months and then you're you're taking it from there. Get a damn job, blah, blah, blah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:16:56)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:16:56)
This

never works. I I I I have not seen this work. More often than not, the parent, they obviously typically have to secure the apartment for this person because maybe they're you know they're very likely underemployed or unemployed. And in the couple of months that the parent is gonna pay the rent while this young person gets their act together and becomes more independent outside of the house, that generally doesn't happen. And then the parent is

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:17:22)
Yeah, yeah.

Kim Muench (1:17:23)
is on a lease, right? And so

the the they keep paying and and meanwhile their home that they're living in, the parents, is a lot more relaxed and easy and, they're happy that this young that the the problem that they've been having is now outside of the house. And yet that problem has just left the house and it's still the problem.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:17:47)
And now it's costing them literally financially that it's becoming

Kim Muench (1:17:48)
Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:17:50)
a financial Sometimes that doesn't matter though. Well, but do you ever see I I'm wondering does that does the y adult child ever take over that financial responsibility, or do you see that these parents are now tied they they're tied into this situation indefinitely?

Kim Muench (1:18:07)
The

parents that I see are the ones that are tied to the situation indefinitely until we can create a plan. Again, it is small steps, and they're they're what parents need to do is very slowly and strategically take steps back out of generally what they're providing financially and emotionally, so that there's a gap and that young person.

has the ability to step in. Let's use the phone as an example because that's something that nobody wants to do without. And it's typically a not real expensive monthly expense, right? So

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:18:47)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:18:47)
let's just say that. Let's just say the the parent, you know, says, listen, you know, maybe whether the kid is living at home or not living at home, at the moment, let's just say that that doesn't matter. they're saying, you know, after November,

We're no longer gonna pay for your phone. Cause I'm a huge, huge person of s advocate of saying don't change things financially without telling someone and giving them enough time to make an adjustment. Doesn't have to be six months, but you know, a couple of months, give them a couple of months, and then you need to follow through. Parent, you need to follow through. If you've said I'm no longer gonna provide your phone service after November, if you don't take on this bill.

then you will not have phone service. The parent has to follow through on that. Cause if they don't, what have you taught your the this your son or daughter? You've taught them

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:19:43)
Right, right.

Kim Muench (1:19:44)
that that, you know, your word is your words and actions aren't aligned.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:19:50)
Yeah.

No, and and that goes into that accountability. So for any parents who are listening to this episode and have just discovered you and are probably thinking, my gosh, thank you. There's somebody I can at least reach out to in this situation, what is one thing a parent can do? Like what's one small step a parent could do this week? If they're here this episode and they're like, before they even reach out to you, what's one small thing they can do if they're find themselves in the in a situation with

a young adult that's having the delayed independent situation.

Kim Muench (1:20:26)
I think the first

thing that they can do is really take in take a few minutes to really sit down and write out what they see the patterns are, the the fun patterns in the family are. When we try to reach out to our son about this, he explodes. He, you know, identify a few of the patterns that are not helpful and then go a step further. What is my part in that pattern? The parents that come to me.

have have some insight into how they're enabling or overfunctioning. They know the things that they're doing that aren't helpful. And a lot of times they're doing it out of fear, anxiety. They're parenting from fear. And so really part of what I do is help parents identify, you know, exactly what what's going on and then give them support as they start to

Pull back from overfunctioning, pull back from enabling. So the first thing a parent can do is really think about what are the patterns that are going on in our family that aren't functioning, that are, you know,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:21:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:21:38)
that are unhelpful. And what is my part in each of these? Am I the peace am I always the peacemaker? Am I the one who avoids conflict? you know, I've I've definitely met with a lot of couples where dad is the one that avoids conflict.

And maybe he's like a CEO somewhere and has, he he can identify that he leads people all day long and makes tough decisions, but he gets home and he cannot do that with his kid. He just cannot

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:07)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:22:07)
bring himself to do that. So supporting them to identify and then start making the changes they need to make because I really think, and the book talks a lot about the three things that you have control over in your parenting at this point, which is

how you show up in the relationship, what you are willing to provide, and how you're responding to your son or daughter's choices, words, behaviors. We always have control over how we respond to other people's things that they're doing.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:40)
And your book would be a good start too is to get is to get your book, read your book, and then it's almost like start there. Start with your book because as you said, that's like a blueprint here, a guide.

Kim Muench (1:22:54)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:54)
'cause I think everything we talked about, probably most of it you cover or you t touch on in your book. and then

Kim Muench (1:23:01)
And that much and much

more. there's there this is the roadmap. This is the guide that I want parents to have. And I think it's also a helpful tool for if you're a treatment center like family program person, I I think that this could be also distributed that way. There's also in the book seven different case studies. And I I I pulled from a variety, right, of families. So I'm hoping that anyone who reads this book

will at least be able to identify with one of these families in the situations that they're in. But that's that's really important to me as well, to showcase here's where we started, here's where we finished. and obviously everyone's story is ongoing, but in the coaching process, these were the steps that took that came in between. So I I think it's important to show real life families that have gone through this.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:23:59)
Yeah, that's great that you were able to do that and show, I guess, success stories, right? To some degree. these are,

Kim Muench (1:24:05)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:06)
maybe and whether it's a s it's a success story traditionally or you looking at this family, what happened here, this is a success story for them, that people can see an actual result of what you're talking

Kim Muench (1:24:19)
Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:20)
about. That's wonderful you were able to do that. And did these families, I assume, give you permission to use their examples in the like how do you go about doing that?

Kim Muench (1:24:28)
I changed enough of the you know, the personal dynamics to yeah,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:31)
Okay. Okay.

Kim Muench (1:24:33)
to not have that be f necessarily have them be able to identify themselves. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:39)
Okay, okay. So you're able to y yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what would

you say is one of the most important chapters in your book? If somebody were to pick it up and you would be like, definitely read this chapter. This is imperative.

Kim Muench (1:24:54)
I think not the chapter on how we got here, because I think we've talked about that. And I I think I think that'll be interesting to parents. But I think I think the most important chapter will be on again looking inside the parent, understanding, fully understanding the three things that you have control over. And

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:18)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:25:19)
I go in depth in the book under how you show up.

There are several things that I go into that I think are really important for parents to understand. So the how you show up is that's that's very broad. Like, well, what does that mean? I'm gonna go

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:36)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:25:37)
into it very specifically in the book.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:40)
This book sounds like not only is it here to help parents with their

with their adult child and that situation, but it's also a journey like we talked about, a journey for their own growth. And through reading

Kim Muench (1:25:55)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:56)
this book, it's going to force a lot of self-reflection and

Kim Muench (1:25:59)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:26:00)
self-awareness as a result. So, you know, it's this is not an easy feat. You have to be ready to you have to be ready to do this. This is something

Kim Muench (1:26:10)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:26:10)
that you have to be able to look at yourself and acknowledge the part you played along with this can't be just

This is yeah.

Kim Muench (1:26:19)
Yeah. Yeah, I don't I don't work with people

who, and and I don't think someone's gonna pick up this book or listen to the audio version of this book if they feel it's their kid and all their kids' fault, you know, like if

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:26:32)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:26:32)
they don't think they have a part in it. And it again, it does take courage. It takes, you know, the ability in some instances for a parent to be somewhat vulnerable and to admit how they've handled things in the past and

to sincerely that they're gonna start showing up differently and to be patient with themselves and their young adult in the process of that. you know, I think all of these things are contributing factors. And let me just speak to when I when I talk to parents in a consultation and they seem like they're really ready to go and whatnot, and then they don't follow through.

I think part of them knows, I I am a very honest, grounded individual. And they know that I'm going to call things like I see them in a kind yet firm manner. And and they need to be ready for that accountability too. So if they're not ready, you know, they're tired of

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:27:38)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:27:38)
the situation, but they're not ready because they're, you know.

My point is like, what's the point in investing in this if you're not gonna get really honest and try, you know, and I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna be here to support you along the way, but I can't do the really hard work of having the difficult discussions with your young person. Like I can't do that for

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:27:59)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:27:59)
you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:28:00)
They have to be ready to look in the mirror. And this could force them to also acknowledge some things from their own childhood, some issue some baggage they're carrying that maybe they haven't even looked at before. That's why this this is this is a huge shift as for the entire family as a whole. and everyone the parents have to be ready to carry that burden along the way and understand the the responsibility and accountability they carry in this whole relationship. I I th it almost feels

though because I was gonna say who who's the audience for your book. But I think we've been talking a little bit. It feels like it's the parents, feels like it's the adult children. Feels like it's even you alluded to it, even people who run a treatment center. It feels like it could even be friends of the parents who are the sounding board for the parents, griping or you know, anguishing over their adult child who's who's not

not launched or or started, am I missing anybody? In terms of who who could use the book, it's like a blueprint to

Kim Muench (1:29:10)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:29:10)
a s a a holistic blueprint for everybody involved.

Kim Muench (1:29:15)
Yes. Yes. That is my that was my goal in in the way it's constructed and I think that's the way it's gonna come across to parents. I I think obviously I put my whole heart into this thing and I feel like it is gonna be a good resource for now and I do not think this problem is gonna go away. I don't think this is a

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:29:38)
Yeah, unfortunately.

Kim Muench (1:29:39)
trending issue because we I'm I'm hoping that parents who are

Now having their children really understand in part the detriment of screens and and will do things differently than we did as parents. I mean, we were told be careful, you know, be careful how much time, be careful what they're seeing, all the things. I don't know how to fix that problem, but I do think that parents who are people who are having children today, I hope that they will look at

this generation of young people and understand what can happen and figure out a way to do it differently.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:30:20)
Amen. I agree one hundred percent. It almost feels like you're like you're you're helping in that sense though, right? If you have young kids, that's another a audience. Here's a foreshadowing of what's to come. Yeah. No, it's true. Stay connected. It's stay

Kim Muench (1:30:30)
Yeah. Re this is the parent you don't want this is the parent you don't wanna be. So

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:30:36)
communicating. It all have expectations. Send them out to mow the lawn. Give them chores. Whatever that is. Whatever it is. No, I think yeah.

Kim Muench (1:30:41)
Yeah. th there's

some old school things that should never go away. Family dinner, chores around the

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:30:47)
Yeah. Yes.

Kim Muench (1:30:49)
house. You know, I mean, these things are sometimes just because our modern life or whatever, you know, that we have more conveniences than we maybe had in the past, just because just because life has gotten more convenient, we've we've got different ways to do things, doesn't mean there isn't huge value in some of the things that

other generations, older generations have done.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:31:13)
One hundred percent accountability and also

When you place expectations on your children, you're essentially saying, I believe in you enough that you can handle this. If you don't put

Kim Muench (1:31:23)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:31:23)
any expectations on them, then you are telling them, I don't think you can handle this. I don't believe in you enough to place this expectation on you. So much of it is about self-worth and building up their self confidence and self esteem. Keep failing forward. You know, may be messed up that one time, but I still believe in you enough to expect you to do better next time. And so I think

Kim Muench (1:31:45)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:31:46)
that's

That's an old school way of approaching parenting that I a hundred percent think needs to stay implemented in every aspect of it. So I agree with you one hundred percent. Where, okay, so when is your book going to be released?

Kim Muench (1:32:01)
The

book is being released on November 24th of 2026. And

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:06)
Okay.

Kim Muench (1:32:06)
it will, it's available on Barnes and Noble, on Amazon. Like I said, right now, parents or people who pre-order it will get the Family Living Agreement template that I use in, you know, with my own clients. the audio version of the book, as I'm sitting here talking an hour and a half with you guys and my voice is starting to go.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:24)
We're gonna wrap it

Kim Muench (1:32:28)
I am currently I'm gonna I'm

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:28)
up.

Kim Muench (1:32:30)
currently I'm recurrently recording the audio version of this book and that'll be out in January. So I feel incredibly blessed

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:36)
That's exciting.

Kim Muench (1:32:37)
that there is an audio version and I I was able to audition

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:42)
Okay.

Kim Muench (1:32:43)
and get the ability to read the book for people because you know, I think it just it's gonna mean so much more if people already know my voice and hear this information coming from the author. I think it's gonna be that much more meaningful.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:57)
One hundred percent. I think that's so cool. And you have a great voice for it. So On the on the pre order, where do you pre-order?

Kim Muench (1:33:01)
thank you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:03)
I think I saw it on your website. Is that the only spot to pre-order? Okay.

Kim Muench (1:33:05)
It's on my website. Yeah. Yeah. It's

on my website. On the home home page of my website. there's a little book at the top and it says pre order and you click that circle and it takes you to the pre order page and then it tells you exactly how to get that download right away, right to your inbox.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:21)
And will it be available everywhere? Amazon, like where Amazon born. Okay. Okay. And the website,

Kim Muench (1:33:25)
Yeah. Barnes and Noble Books a Million, I think. I'm not real familiar with that, but Books a Million. yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:34)
is it the Real Parent Guide website you're talking about that they can find? Real Parent Guide is your website.

Kim Muench (1:33:37)
Yes. Yes. So yes.

Real life parentguide dot com. Yep.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:41)
Real real life parent guide. I I I

got the words, real life parent guide. And and just for anyone just discovering Kim, check out real life parent guide. That's a whole nother thing, right? That's connected to that's what you do basically, right? Is that that's your coaching, that's your business

Kim Muench (1:33:52)
Yeah. Yes, that's my business name. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:57)
name. So and that's another step is the book is is one step, but if you're interested in Kim, reaching out to Kim for coaching. So real life parent guide is where you'll find the resources for that. And then

Kim Muench (1:34:10)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:34:11)
follow and and all of everywhere you can find Kim will be in the show notes, but also follow her socials because you'll be able to see where her speaking engagements are because now you're doing speaking engagements. So

it's if anyone listened to her life story, she when I brought that up, she's like, no, no, no, that's not me. And little look what happened. Now she's doing speaking engagements. So you'll be able to keep track of if she's in your area or close enough where you want to travel to hear her speak. Because I assume you're going to continue to do that right off and on.

Kim Muench (1:34:40)
I will if I if I get asked. I'm not outwardly

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:34:43)
Okay.

Kim Muench (1:34:45)
I'm not outwardly pushing that. But if someone came and asked me, I I a hundred percent would, consider doing that. What I don't want is I I it what doesn't what does not jazz me is like even though I live ten minutes away from DFW airport, like traveling to speak all over the like all that's a lot, you know. But

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:03)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:35:07)
I also what I what I would love is

the ability to do lunch and learns for psychologists, psychiatrists, that on Zoom, on you know, online. Like I would love to educate either employees and companies or, you know, again the treatment professionals and whatnot to really talk about this topic. I would love that. So that's a way to speak.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:31)
Yeah, that's great. It is, it is. Are you gonna be

doing any type of book tour?

Kim Muench (1:35:37)
I'm not. I am I I haven't

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:39)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:35:40)
been haven't been asked and I I I have no. Maybe the next book.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:44)
Not

not even in Dallas, in y a local bookstore in your area.

Kim Muench (1:35:48)
here's the thing.

Here's the thing. I I could go out and solicit that, I think. I I mean I obviously I could. but I I'm curious if people would show up based on the nature of this book. Okay. So I want you to understand, right? Like this is the parent

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:03)
Mm.

Kim Muench (1:36:07)
who is feeling their

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:10)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:36:11)
part of the issue and that their kid is not where everybody, you know, so

This was this

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:16)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:36:17)
has been my concern about this is will people show up based on the

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:22)
Right.

Kim Muench (1:36:22)
nature of this book? And that's I guess I don't know, maybe maybe it's a cop out on some level, but I I truly believe that it is not because of because the book deals with what it deals with, I don't think I'm gonna have parents going, my gosh.

I'm showing up at the Barnes and Noble because yeah, I totally need this book, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This so resonates. Yes. Yes. I don't disagree with your

Yeah, no, I I think you're right. I think you're right. Now before we go, also mention the first book you wrote. You mentioned it in in your ep

Kim Muench (1:36:54)
Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:55)
other episode with us, but please mention it here too.

Kim Muench (1:36:57)
Right. So in twenty twenty one I wrote a memoir about my parenting journey, which started when I was 18. And really the rest, a good portion of the book is the experience I had with my oldest son in getting him into treatment. He was addicted to alcohol, and you know, really struggling with his mental health in his early twenties. So I've been this parent who has experienced this similar to what I help parents with now.

And that book is called Becoming Me While Raising You, A Mother's Journey to Herself. So it's really a self reflection on going through some of these really difficult things with my son. How did I

grow and learn from

them? And I think that's that's the greatest opportunity you can have as a parent.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:37:44)
Absolutely. And again, we will have ever all of this information in the show notes. We will also have Kim's first episode in the show notes and link it in the show notes. So if you want and she does extensively go into that journey. you literally hear all of it in that episode of her experience with her older son and parenting her other children. There she's very candid, very open. I highly recommend listeners to go check out that episode because she goes way more in depth.

About a lot of what we talked about too today, we covered in that first episode. So if you're interested in any of this, check it out. So thank you. I know you're in the middle of recording your audiobook. And so we really appreciate you. Yes, we really appreciate you coming

Kim Muench (1:38:27)
Saving the voice.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:38:30)
on and and talking with us because I know we have to save the voice. So thank you, though. We're so excited about this book and about everything that's happening for you. And I think it's such another wonderful way for you to help people. You know, that's what

you do so much and so well but just offering this book as a resource is gonna reach even more people and I do think you're right. I don't think this is a a trend, unfortunately. So

Kim Muench (1:38:55)
Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:38:56)
I have a feeling you'll be writing another one as this as this grows and as you

Kim Muench (1:39:00)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:39:01)
learn and discover more things about what's this phenomenon that's going on. So again thank you for spending time. The book is Lost in Place and it's being released November twenty fourth, twenty

26th. So if you're listening after that date, it's already out there. But even now, go pre-order it. You'll get the family living agreement for free. which again, we also went into detail in her first episode if you want more information about that. And again, real life parent guide is you know, this is under the umbrella of Kim's business, real life parent guide. So if you're interested in getting involved, are you accepting clients still with your coaching?

Kim Muench (1:39:40)
I am at the moment. I have a feeling, it with this book coming out, it could be

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:39:45)
Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:39:46)
challenging. however, I have a wonderful twice a week parent support group that I facilitate. and there's typically 30-ish parents on the group call now. and I usually talk to five or six of them during that time period. So that's another good way, if if not private, you know, clients that

you'll always have those those two times a week too and you learn from other parents in that environment. It's super, it's a great positive community. So it's another way to get help for yourself.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:40:20)
You also have a newsletter too, don't you? Do you still have your newsletter? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kim Muench (1:40:23)
I do. I have a weekly newsletter. I have a blog that I put out every week. So

on the on the website under free resources, there you'll find all that. I've got four different downloads that parents can download on very specific topics related to, you know, having a young adult who is struggling. So I have appreciated the ability to talk with you guys again

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:40:43)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Muench (1:40:44)
today and to talk specifically about this book because I do feel that it's going to be an important

Peace for many parents.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:40:54)
100%. I agree. So again, real life parent guide and the book is lost in place. Again, thank you, Kim. As always, you're always welcome to come on for your next endeavor, because I know there will be more.

Kim Muench (1:41:06)
Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:07)
So hopefully we'll see you back. But for any listeners,

Kim Muench (1:41:09)
Thank you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:10)
again, please leave any comments or questions. Kim will see them and reach out to her directly for sure if in need. And we always love to hear from you. so please leave us any comments or questions. Thank you again, Kim. Congratulations.

Kim Muench (1:41:23)
Thank you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:24)
Congratulations. Congratulations.

Kim Muench (1:41:24)
Thank you. Thank you guys.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:27)
We're so happy for you. And and again, happy for everyone that you're helping. It's such a blessing and a gift. So, and listeners, thank you for listening, and we will see you next time. Bye.