GenX Adulting Podcast (00:16)

Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Tracy Collins, Behavior Specialist with us. Welcome Tracy.

Tracy Collins (00:24)

Thank you. Glad to be here.

GenX Adulting Podcast (00:26)

We're so happy to have you. And our first question is always, what year were you born?

Tracy Collins (00:31)

1975. I am, oh 100 %!

GenX Adulting Podcast (00:33)

Okay, so you're Gen X.

You're definitely Gen X, no question about it. So where were you born?

Tracy Collins (00:40)

Yep, absolutely, absolutely. ⁓

In Australia, where I am living right now, in South Australia in a little country town, the Barossa Valley, which a lot of people might know for the wine region.

GenX Adulting Podcast (00:54)

Okay, so what's it called again? Barossa Valley?

Tracy Collins (00:56)

Barossa Valley? I

think you could pronounce it like Barossa Valley or something like that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (01:02)

Okay,

is it in a valley? ⁓ okay. And is there a lot of vineyards there?

Tracy Collins (01:07)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, surrounded by vineyards. ⁓ It's very beautiful, very picturesque. up surrounded by vineyards and orchards and yeah, very idyllic.

GenX Adulting Podcast (01:19)

Okay, so

kind of like what Napa Valley might be.

Tracy Collins (01:25)

Very similar to Napa in terms of climate as well. ⁓ Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ And we know ⁓ my daughter's a winemaker as well. She's done vintages in ⁓ Murphy's, which is just outside of like little town outside of Napa. So yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (01:42)

Okay,

okay. So similar. Wow. ⁓ that's beautiful. So what, how many generations back does your family go? Like who settled there first? Was it your great grandparents, your grandparents?

Tracy Collins (01:53)

Well, so South Australia is actually a big area where it was originally settled by convicts from England. ⁓ my family came from ⁓ religious persecution in Germany. ⁓ that was generations ago. ⁓ So I've got a lot of that Silesian kind of background. So they came over here and settled. So this is actually a big Germanic.

GenX Adulting Podcast (02:00)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (02:19)

settling here. So the Barossa, so I grew up with my grandparents speaking like broken German when they didn't want me to hear what they were saying.

GenX Adulting Podcast (02:29)

Okay, okay.

You know ⁓ what the convictions were? Like why they were sent? What they did in Germany to be sent over to Australia?

Tracy Collins (02:38)

So the convictions were from England and they could have been, the German, was no, from the German side, there was no convictions. That was more like ⁓ religious kind of differences. ⁓ And so it's a massive Lutheran community here. And there was just lots of unrest. And the convictions over that came from ⁓ England.

GenX Adulting Podcast (02:54)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (03:03)

⁓ They could have been as so simple as, you know, bread or stealing bread or they were quite trivial back then. ⁓ Some of it was very just survival, but then at the same time it could have been, you know, very...

GenX Adulting Podcast (03:12)

Mm-hmm.

So for your family,

was it ⁓ religious persecution, or convicts, or religious persecution mainly?

Tracy Collins (03:20)

We're not confusing.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. that's and the Barossa is very much that Germanic settling here. ⁓ So yeah, there's always a bit of I think, ⁓ sometimes you're hearing conversation when people are talking about their heritage. Were you a convict or were you?

GenX Adulting Podcast (03:31)

Mm-hmm.

Now is that all over Australia or is it mainly just South Australia where people were sent?

Tracy Collins (03:47)

I believe that South Australia was the kind of convict hub from what I understand. Yeah, absolutely.

GenX Adulting Podcast (03:52)

Okay.

There's probably

a famous port there or something where they came in over on ships or something. it near the... well I know it's near the water, right?

Tracy Collins (04:00)

Yeah.

Yeah, so the ocean's about an hour and a half away. We're not as lucky as you guys with Napa being so close to the ocean.

GenX Adulting Podcast (04:08)

Okay.

Yeah. Right, right,

right. mean, hour and a half. ⁓ I mean, for Americans, if you're an hour or less from we call it the beach, or if you're from Jersey, the shore, ⁓ you're considered you live close to the beach if it's an hour or less because, you know, America is so huge that if you're within an hour reach, you live close to the beach, the coastline, you know. So you do.

Tracy Collins (04:20)

Please.

Okay, okay.

Yeah, okay. Okay, well then I live close to the beach. I like that. I'll frame that now.

GenX Adulting Podcast (04:38)

Your real estate just went up. Yeah, exactly. So ⁓ do you know how your parents met?

Tracy Collins (04:41)

It did, is. ⁓ absolutely, my descriptions, yeah. Most of the beach. ⁓

My parents met over in ⁓ Naurah in Sydney and my dad was in the Navy at the time and so ⁓ that was, ⁓ he'd ⁓ gone into the Navy when he was about 15, 16 and my

was working as a secretary over there. So there's a big, ⁓ I grew up with a lot of, surrounded by a lot of Navy, a lot of military kind of ⁓ people and that kind of culture as well. So yeah, so they met over there and then came back here and dad left the Navy. ⁓ But yeah, his friends would always pop in from the military. was kind of this, I don't know if they planned it, was this into...

in-house joke where randomly growing up at three o'clock in the morning, you'd have a knock at the door and it would be some random person from somewhere had hauled their whole family over and they're like, hey, we're staying. And so you just have this house of like military. Yeah. And I think I didn't really realize until my dad's passing how strong that military background and that training really is so much part of their identity for the rest of their lives.

GenX Adulting Podcast (05:47)

I don't know.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (06:05)

⁓

which I have been working with some military ⁓ doing some courses and stuff like that with military and I've learned a lot through that just recently and that was through my PhD but ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (06:18)

So

he joined young though. That's what I was gonna say, or 16? What year did he make it in school?

Tracy Collins (06:27)

Hen, if he was lucky, Yatini. And yeah, he enlisted very early. He had a very troubled upbringing in terms of ⁓ lot of domestic violence and stuff like that. And as with a lot of them, it was to escape at the time. It was seen as also good and noble and ⁓ it was a solid place to go and also

GenX Adulting Podcast (06:29)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (06:56)

I think for a lot of people it is that inclusion. You know, there's a sense of inclusion.

GenX Adulting Podcast (06:59)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

So he was his family was from your town, right? But you're

Tracy Collins (07:06)

So no, they're

from Western Australia, so way over ⁓ on the Western coast.

GenX Adulting Podcast (07:12)

Was it your mom's family from your town? Okay, so but she was over in Sydney.

Tracy Collins (07:14)

My mum's family is from here, yeah.

Sydney,

which is all on the other side of the east.

GenX Adulting Podcast (07:22)

Do you know what brought her? Was it just like wanting to get out and have some life experience?

Tracy Collins (07:27)

Yes, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And she made a conscious decision that she, you know, wanted to meet somebody outside the Borassa Because there is a bit of a joke that a lot of people, you know, don't leave the Borassa, they get married and it's like, ⁓ we call them, we call them box heads. That's a joke. It's an efficient term. ⁓ You know, so there's a bit of a joke that, yeah, you want to just get outside the genetic pool a bit. So yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (07:53)

Yeah, yeah, that makes

sense. And then she brought him back though. Okay, do you know how old? beautiful there though. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure he was like, this is fine. I'll live here. ⁓ How old were they when they got married? Do know?

Tracy Collins (07:56)

Yes, she will.

Yeah.

They were, ⁓ that's a really good question. So that was nine years before me. It was early 20s, very early 20s. So 23. yeah, 23. And they had me, I think nine years, only got pregnant nine years after ⁓ being married, which was because my mother did not, because with the Navy,

GenX Adulting Podcast (08:16)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (08:31)

which is a little bit different from the other military services, you're assigned to a ship. So you essentially, a ship will be a port, but you might have 24 hours notice and it goes, and you could be gone for any period of time. And so there was a conscious decision not to have a family because of that. There's a lot of separation there. ⁓ So the postings can be very, you're posted with a ship. Wherever that ship is, that's where you're posted. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (08:50)

and make.

Okay.

Tracy Collins (09:00)

So I think the funny thing was with that nine year gap, that was very unusual and to have a child at 31, ⁓ back then, I think mum said, everybody thought I was barren. ⁓ But.

GenX Adulting Podcast (09:14)

Of course,

that would have been so odd. You would have completely back then thought they're having issues.

Tracy Collins (09:18)

Yeah.

Absolutely, 100%.

GenX Adulting Podcast (09:23)

Yeah, so they really married

for love then, right? they must because yeah and then they wait and what'd do wait until he wasn't going to be called away basically.

Tracy Collins (09:27)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yep, got out of the Navy and then moved back here, got a house, all of those kind of things and, you know, had kids and all of that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (09:46)

When

he was in port, she go to, did she live in the different ports or did she live there while he was away?

Tracy Collins (09:52)

No, she stayed in Nara.

Yeah. And it was lucky. ⁓ So he was posted out for Vietnam as well. And so he was he went in. ⁓ But luckily, when he went, it was right at the end. So he never actually had to go in ⁓ and face any real face to face ⁓ contact. But he was definitely on ships. They're on the outskirts. ⁓ And then he came back. So

GenX Adulting Podcast (10:21)

Are you their only child?

Tracy Collins (10:23)

No, I've got one younger sister. Three years.

GenX Adulting Podcast (10:25)

Okay, so they had you and then what's the difference in age between you? Okay, so she

just squeezes in as a Gen X.

Tracy Collins (10:33)

Yeah, think so. Because what is the cutoff

again? The cutoff is 78, isn't it? No. Yes. Oh, 90, 80. Okay, I'm going the wrong way. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (10:37)

80. 80. 1980. Yeah. But that's

such a big difference, 65 to 80. So you were born in 75 though, and your sister's born in 79. 75, 78. So she's still Gen X. She slides right in. Okay, so I have a question real quick. Do you know if your dad had to forge his age at that at 15 or 16 to get in?

Tracy Collins (10:53)

Okay.

Yeah.

I believe, I actually believe he was actually 15 and a half when he went in and he forged to say he was 16. He was desperate to get out of his situation.

GenX Adulting Podcast (11:10)

Yeah, okay. Wow.

Yeah, a of people do that. Yeah.

I hadn't thought about that. So they settle in. They have their home. They're in this beautiful, idyllic town. start school in school. Did you have an elementary? What do you call it there? We call it elementary, like primary in primary school. Did you start showing any interest in any extracurriculars like art or sports or music?

Tracy Collins (11:19)

Thank

Mm-hmm.

primary.

Me? No, I ⁓ did arts, I did music. I couldn't read music, but I would be able to play it by ear. And it took my teacher about a year and half before she realized that I was just faking that. ⁓ Chariots of Fire and you know, had an organ. I was really cool. You know, like I had the organ. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (11:58)

What did you play?

Bug piano?

Okay. Characters

of Fire was that, that class. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the run. And I remember I was so excited to see the movie because of the hype of Characters of Fire. And to me, that age, the movie was so boring. Like, it was just like, they're just running. And I didn't understand any of the depth of, I didn't understand the human issues that were going on. I was like, I thought this beautiful

Tracy Collins (12:09)

It was!

Yeah.

Just reading.

No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:33)

song, this movie is going to be so good. And that was just like, what is how I didn't I was too young to understand. I'm

Tracy Collins (12:37)

I had a hundred with you. Yeah, I remember

watching it going, I don't get this.

GenX Adulting Podcast (12:43)

No, no, we were too, but the song is so, so you played the organ and you were.

Tracy Collins (12:47)

Yeah, yeah, was, I

was the I was not sporty at all. Like ridiculously not sporty. I was I was a real chubster. And like this is how unsporty I was that I they used to have tickets on your sports days where they would give you like reds or blues or greens depending on like if you won or whatever. And I always had like the law I got nothing I was terrible. And even in like and running I was terrible and

GenX Adulting Podcast (13:14)

that's.

Tracy Collins (13:15)

there was a cross country one year and my mum said she so distinctly remembers it. So we all go off on our cross country I think and I was about like year four or year five. So off we go running. And anyway, mum said they're all waiting there for us to come through and then all of a sudden Tracy comes first and everybody's like, oh my God, we've come, this is amazing. And I crossed and I was like, oh I'm first? That's so weird. My experience was everybody just went so far ahead of me that I got lost and I obviously just cut through and

GenX Adulting Podcast (13:36)

you

Tracy Collins (13:45)

And all the, you know, the officiators, came and said, Tracy didn't come past any checkpoints. Basically, I just got lost. But I had like a three minutes of glory where I was like, is this what it feels like to win something? It's so cool. Yeah. That was my moment. I had three minutes of glory and it was like, yeah, I want that in the future somewhere. It's not going to be for school.

GenX Adulting Podcast (13:46)

So thanks.

That's awesome. That was your moment. That's hilarious.

You got to figure out how to

tap into that. So I'm just dying over the tickets because that's such a Gen X experience is like you're it's like a scarlet letter of success and like you're the best and you suck. They would never do that now. Could you imagine parents would be in their mind? Everybody gets something else.

Tracy Collins (14:22)

It's got me!

my god, ⁓ my god. No, it's like, it's

how they've built us to be resilient, but I do remember this young child, I was in year seven, so it's the last year of our primary school, and this younger girl came up to me and she looked at my car and she goes, you're not very good, are you? And I was just like, no.

GenX Adulting Podcast (14:34)

Yep.

No, but that's like literally opening up bullying like let's just bully they like it's saying I'm ready to be bullied I have my color is you know white and you know like now everyone would have the same color doesn't matter what you do everyone but I'm dying over that it was just like exposed like you're good and you're not good my gosh and how traumatic so okay so but you could play music by ear that's pretty cool

Tracy Collins (14:49)

Yeah

It's a flag.

Yeah, you're correct.

Yeah, I could. ⁓ I think that's where it's linked now and we'll get to that in conversation. I'm sure ⁓ I've been diagnosed with ADHD just recently in last year and with my studies and psychology and I'm literally learning about ADHD and all these other things and I'm going and it's about I'm doing adolescent diagnosis and assessment and I'm looking at it going...

GenX Adulting Podcast (15:22)

Mm. Okay.

Tracy Collins (15:39)

How did nobody pick this stuff up? Like I am like the poster child for a female now, but we didn't know about it back then. So.

GenX Adulting Podcast (15:41)

Great.

Now,

yeah, and I think that ⁓ I feel like just from what I've researched and also from having other guests on, it seems like a lot of Gen X women when they were girls, so many girls went undiagnosed, whereas the boys, was more obvious, but I don't think they even really diagnosed Gen X girls.

Tracy Collins (15:54)

Mm.

No, no, I don't think they did. ⁓ You know, when we're growing up, it's things like, did we even really know ADHD? If there was ADHD, was like, it had to be so like usually it was a boy so far off or out of spec who was just bouncing off the walls, you know. ⁓ And even then I don't really think that it was about diagnosing and but like even PTSD, that only came out in the 80s. You know, that wasn't a thing before.

And when these diagnoses come out as well, they usually met with bit of skepticism and a bit of pushback and it's it's a bit of a new age thing. ⁓ back then as well, you think about our culture was really much as well, like if a kid was pinging off the walls, it's usually got bad child, bad parenting, know, kind of thing. They attributed it so differently. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (16:57)

They'd separate the kids, right? Or

just let it go? I don't know. I I remember there were kids like that and it was just like, they're hyper or they're, you know, it was just like, and the teacher would be like, sit down, Timmy, come on, Timmy. But no, there was never really, no one discuss it. guess you're right. Everybody was mainstreamed. was like, yeah, we just knew Timmy was like really hyper. Yeah. You know.

Tracy Collins (17:06)

Yes.

Yeah, but and also

I think the teachers used to like crack it at us a lot more like, you know, and send you to the principles, it was like really like

GenX Adulting Podcast (17:25)

Yeah.

Yeah, like Timmy was like, get out of here. There were never girls though, to your point, were never girls, there was always boys. Because it wouldn't be the hyper, right? We wouldn't show the hyper in the same way boys do in a physical way. Maybe it'd be more anxiety based.

Tracy Collins (17:43)

Yeah, absolutely. And girls have a much better ⁓ masking mechanism and we're built just a little bit differently with our social wiring. ⁓ And I guess boys have, they develop their gross motor skills a lot quicker. So they're like big movements and stuff where the girls were a little bit more fine motor skilled. So we can fly under the radar a bit more ⁓ and our in general behaviors weren't so overt and they weren't functionally kind of

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:08)

I'm next time.

Tracy Collins (18:13)

⁓ as obvious you know in terms of the boys wouldn't be able to stay in their seat whereas the girls may have just daydreamed a bit more.

GenX Adulting Podcast (18:22)

Yes, that

makes sense. And also, so many Gen Xers as kids suffered trauma, and so disassociating was one of our number one tools. So in general, a lot of us disassociated, but also it could have been from ADHD. I'm sure symptoms of childhood trauma are parallel to some symptoms of ADHD, I would think, right?

Tracy Collins (18:46)

⁓

Yeah, 100%. They're ⁓ overlapping, co-occurring. And ⁓ this is something that, you when I started my PhD, ⁓ last, early last year, ⁓ I...

The reason I started the PhD and I was able to go in there is I had lived experience with, because it was partly to do with the military. So we were looking at the mechanisms of specifically PTSD, parents with PTSD from the military and...

Because when I was doing my undergraduate, I was looking at PTSD, the neural correlates, and with dissociation and not dissociation. And I'm reading all this information and I'm going, there's so much about the person with PTSD, but there is nothing about the children that are in the environment of this highly dysregulated person. And...

you know, I'm looking at my, because I'm looking at through my own lens of my ⁓ experience, because my father had PTSD. He also had lots of problems with alcohol. And I'm going, wow, there's all this information about how to help this person. you know, we're the children, the family. This is just why is nobody talking about it or researching it. And so that's where my PhD came up, because I said, yeah, it's a huge gap. And then through ⁓ just even that preliminary study,

One of the things that has come out of the basic research that has started is there's a lot of children that when they've had trauma ⁓ experiences and so we're now going outside the scope of military but also with it also correlates to people that have had parents with military but a lot of those children end up with ADHD diagnosis predominantly the men with ADHD and females with ADHD but

GenX Adulting Podcast (20:38)

you

Tracy Collins (20:38)

so

borderline personality disorder, a lot of the females were because of the trauma. So what we understand now as well is that those environments, when you've got this child with a neuroplastic brain and they're developing that trauma because of ⁓ the hypervigilance that's required, you know, in those environments that are really unstable, the brain does wire. And so if you've got a genetic predisposition,

GenX Adulting Podcast (21:01)

Earth.

Tracy Collins (21:08)

Bingo, bango, bongo, like you're gonna get it. On the other hand, even if you don't have a genetic predisposition, you are more likely to get that worry.

GenX Adulting Podcast (21:17)

So it sounds very psychosomatic. Your brain is dealing with this external trauma or the unsettled environment and it's rewiring itself to your hypervigilance.

Tracy Collins (21:27)

Mm.

Absolutely, absolutely. So you put a child in the environment where there is unpredictable, you know, ⁓ you've got different types of ⁓ neglect or deprivation or response mechanisms. The child is developing a nervous system and it's it there's multiple ways that it's always having to be on way more than if you're in a safe, secure, predictable environment.

GenX Adulting Podcast (21:33)

That's the truth.

That's probably pretty new research, right?

Tracy Collins (22:06)

Yeah, there's pretty new research out there and it's when I'm talking about this as well, these are some of them are reasonably small studies ⁓ and there is still a lot that isn't known. when I was starting with my PhD, there was America's actually just that little bit ahead. ⁓ So there was actually one really good study that was done ⁓ and that was actually the population of that was very, very big.

⁓ which was great. So the bigger the study, the better the research and the evidence can be, unless it was like, know, when it's a small study for like 12 people, the findings are a little bit less reliable or generalizable.

GenX Adulting Podcast (22:42)

Yeah, yeah.

So would it be safe to say that I guess we could just speak with our generation Gen X kids who ended up having ADHD whether it was diagnosed once they were adults or whenever it was found teenage whatever is it is it safe to say that there's a high percentage of them that also suffer childhood trauma?

Tracy Collins (22:58)

Mm.

Hmm.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (23:16)

not all right you can't say all but that it was

definitely a trigger and as you're saying if you're already genetically predisposed you definitely probably don't stand a chance if you're under severe trauma but that it could happen even if you're not genetically predisposed that that makes so much sense that makes so much sense

Tracy Collins (23:28)

you.

Absolutely.

Yeah, and the, so if you've got a high genetic predisposition, there's a few levels to this. So somebody, if somebody's sitting there going, hey, I've got ADHD, I didn't have any trauma. It's like, that's fine. You've probably had a genetic predisposition and you're in an environment with another maybe ADHD parent, an environment. then the environment is, you know, kind of

know, essentially reinforcing it. You're in the environment with all of that. And those behaviors are normalized and modeled to you, you know. So if somebody's sort of coming from that framework going, hey, I don't feel like there's trauma. ⁓ But for somebody that has had trauma with or without a genetic predisposition, there's a higher chance that you're going to have that ADHD.

GenX Adulting Podcast (24:02)

Okay. Yeah.

And kind of what you're saying is, if you're genetically predisposed but you don't feel you had trauma, you could still be being raised by a parent with ADHD who's unregulated. you are experiencing a chaotic, traumatic environment to some degree, but you're not identifying it as such because it's really all you know. So would this also, would emotionally immature parents fall into this too, being raised by an emotionally immature

Tracy Collins (24:37)

Good.

No. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (24:55)

parent that can cause that that ⁓ that chaos and that projection and that depending on the child for their emotional needs do you think that falls into that at all.

Tracy Collins (25:07)

Yeah,

absolutely. When you've got a dysregulated parent, you know, whether it be because they're immaturely reacting or they just can't control their own nervous system and their own reactions that are internally happening. Absolutely. You know, I think that...

It was a really interesting conversation. And it was actually a young person who articulated it because they were saying that they want to be a father one day, not just a dad. And I said, well, how do you separate those two? And they said, well, a dad is somebody that just has children, but a father is somebody that wants to be there to guide them, teach them, be hands on. And I thought, that's really interesting because

I kind of reflect that and go, well, did my parents want to have children? Because that's also what you did. Like there was this, there's a, there was a formula of the steps that you go through and that, that kind of tick box. And as much as I'm not discounting the fact that, you know, there wasn't that aspect of wanting to care and love, because, you know, there was that. But I think there's a different level of conscious intention.

you know, because you're going like what I say to my kids a lot is if I have to, you know, pull it in hard, I'm saying at the end of the day, my job isn't to be your friend. My job is to make you the best person. And I don't care if you don't like me right now. I know you love me, but my job is not for you to like me. And it's not for you to ask to be friends all the time. And I think there's a very conscious difference in that. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (26:53)

Well, yeah, and

you're not going to your children for your needs. Our children should not be fulfilling our needs. And I think that's where things get a little confused with certain parents that are either vicariously living through their children or the parent is emotionally immature and going to the child to fulfill those emotional needs or even as like a companion, filling that role as a companion.

Tracy Collins (26:58)

Christmas.

100

%

GenX Adulting Podcast (27:22)

So they're

not alone, codependency, or there's a lot of parents that haven't allowed their children to individuate from them. ⁓

Tracy Collins (27:29)

⁓ I see

that lot in my work. A lot. A lot.

GenX Adulting Podcast (27:33)

Right? Yeah. And that, but

that all comes from trauma, right? Those parents are dysregulated. And so I'm sure that that came from there. It's that generational trauma.

Tracy Collins (27:43)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. ⁓ And just if they've been in an environment where dysfunction has been modeled to them, ⁓ I think that if they haven't taken ownership of their stuff, ⁓ I think our kids are the best, the way I look at it, I think our kids are our best mirror for us to show us where we need to do our work.

GenX Adulting Podcast (27:53)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (28:08)

But most people don't see it that way. They're fulfilling their needs. They're operating on such a lack of kind of awareness of what their interactions are actually doing. ⁓ And I have to point out quite often ⁓ that I see these interactions between a child and a parent, and I'm looking at it going, there's no adult in the room. Because a child needs

GenX Adulting Podcast (28:33)

Yes, right.

Tracy Collins (28:37)

regulated person because without that the child is also going to become more dysregulated because they're trying to find safety they're like where's where's the baseline for safety here and if you've got a parent that's just like escalating they're escalating it is true and almost inherently traumatic in itself when you've got a very dysregulated parent

GenX Adulting Podcast (28:57)

Yeah, and then you're

and also you're dealing with displacement in there too. So, you know, if a child spills the milk and the parent comes at them with anger from something else about the spilled milk, but it doesn't warrant that level of anger. But the parent hasn't dealt with whatever they have going on. So they're coming at their child with too strong of an emotion. And that could be even a positive emotion. Too much love, too much focus, too much focus.

Tracy Collins (29:00)

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (29:25)

So

there's, you know, so that displacement of, so when you were, okay, so when you were in primary school, were you already noticing or when you look back, do you see signs of your dad's PTSD and alcoholism as young as primary school?

Tracy Collins (29:40)

I wasn't aware of it fully, ⁓ really until there were some other things I guess that happened is as my mother's family, like my grandfather passed away, my grandmother passed away, not having that external, I guess monitoring almost, you know, that family protection as they kind of, and then I had other family members move away.

my dad was almost, because there's that lack of monitoring, there's that social, you know, that social monitoring that we do, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (30:14)

He's left to his own

devices. were the buffer. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (30:18)

Yeah, that was a buffer. so his

everything kind of got worse. And after that, so it was just this slow spiral. But the weird thing is, I normalized most of it for a really long time. Like, I just thought that was normal. I thought that every household had this level of dysfunction and that when we went out, we just pretend it's all okay. I just, I just thought that's what how it worked. Because I another reference point.

GenX Adulting Podcast (30:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I think that a lot of Gen X, I speaking for Gen X kids, I think that's a very relatable experience. Well, what I was going to say, I think we can all relate to that abnormal thing happening at home. But that was the norm. Right? This collective norm of abnormalities. That's what we grew up with. But then pretend like everything like you go out like no one acknowledges your Sunday best and you go out like everything's fine. I think that's, you know, appearances were

Tracy Collins (31:00)

That was the new.

you

GenX Adulting Podcast (31:15)

that generation cared so much about appearances too.

Tracy Collins (31:17)

Absolutely and then that brings us to that

thing where why do girls go unnoticed with their ADHD because we were masking from such a young age. had to learn.

GenX Adulting Podcast (31:26)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. For 20 other things. Yeah.

Right. a whole menu of things you were masking from. Yes. And in order to go out and be normal, were masking. KBHD was like, ⁓ I got this. problem. So what were some of the signs of his, what kind of trauma did you suffer from his PTSD as a child?

Tracy Collins (31:35)

Totally, absolutely.

Mm.

⁓ He was, so and kind of going back to what we talking about before in terms of different parenting styles, you've got that authoritarian, you know, that like you will, that militant style, which is not great. We know that in from the literature and on the other side that and what you were saying as well, that totally permissive.

GenX Adulting Podcast (32:04)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (32:11)

parenting we know is not healthy either. It is that really lovely balance in the middle where it's authoritative, which is different from authoritarian, which has that balance of boundary and warmth. ⁓ And so where I sat in was I had my father who was very militant and my mother who was a beautiful person, but she was much more on that permissive side. So you've got these kind of two

sides where militant and then ⁓ just this lack of ability to hold a boundary. So I started ⁓ noticing, it was the things that I'd normalised that ⁓ dad would get up and you know, I, used to be able listen to the, I could hear the handle in the bedroom and based on his footsteps, like the pace, I could tell if we're about to get yelled at as soon as he walked in the room or ignored.

It was one of the two. So it was very much a ⁓ an environment where you didn't know what you're going to get. And the yelling could have been for it was whatever he could find in the environment that was obviously just going to peak it. Yeah. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (33:12)

Mmm.

Right. That's a displacement, right? It's like

it could be anything. So was being ignored the positive end of the spectrum? The yelling was...

Tracy Collins (33:40)

That was the,

yeah, he could go for days without talking or acknowledging my existence. You know, he would look out the back and, but it was almost a bit of a, but it's always a holding the breath. Cause you'd hear as soon as you hear them come back in. ⁓ And also the, you know, we all, and I think that's the thing I didn't, I thought it was normal for so long as well, because I remember, you know, saying to somebody, ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (33:46)

So.

Right.

Tracy Collins (34:07)

you know, dad does this and they go, ⁓ every parent hits their kids, you know, we all get a whack, you know, and you just go, okay. And I think that the difference was, I still remember when he would hit, just seeing the fact that you could see the anger, but he wasn't in control.

GenX Adulting Podcast (34:12)

Right.

Right. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (34:29)

you know, and

I think that that's where I've tried to develop compassion ⁓ over over that. And it was a very it was just it's interesting now then doing the military and doing the PhD. From that military perspective, understanding that and when they go through the military training. ⁓ There are a lot of things that

⁓ are trained into them. So, but they are things that are prized. It means that people aren't going to die. ⁓ So when they're trained to react, you know, hyper vigilant, they literally rewire their nervous system to be hyper vigilant, controlled aggression. ⁓ What I saw wasn't a controlled aggression, but that the mechanisms of what the military do, and this is not a negative on the military either.

⁓ But it helps us understand the mechanisms of what we see when they go into dysfunction and why he also probably couldn't unwire them. And the other hard part is I could see this fight within my father all the time because when you're in the military, the fact that you are hypervigilant, the fact that you have controlled aggression means that when you're in battle, you know that the men next to you,

When there's a threat, no one's running in the opposite direction. You're all gonna move without hesitation all at the same time. That is protective. It means that you're going to live and like you're gonna help your mates also live. So all these things are part of an identity that is so valued in the military. You're saving lives. You're saving, you've got everybody's back and you get out into the real world and all those things that part of your identity and are valued are no longer valued.

having a quick trigger response, that's not good. know, having all of those things just, it must be very, very difficult. And then there was such a change with the Vietnam War as well, how we viewed military service, it was the first ⁓ war televised and there was such a change. So when he also entered into the Navy, it was seen as a very, you know, noble, heroic thing to do.

GenX Adulting Podcast (36:51)

It's during a peacetime

too. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (36:53)

Yeah, absolutely.

And then you come out the other side and it's, it was, yeah, it was quite awful for a lot of the Vietnam veterans.

GenX Adulting Podcast (36:57)

you

Right, right. They weren't welcomed home. And I was just thinking about, ⁓ almost, their timing for discernment has to be so fast in the military. It has to be split second. ⁓ That skill has to be honed and practiced ⁓ and just right on point in order to be able to go into battle, in order to have each other's backs. And so then to go out into the civilian world.

Tracy Collins (37:06)

No.

Absolutely.

Okay.

GenX Adulting Podcast (37:32)

where there is space for discernment, there is time for discernment, people expect you to take time to discern a situation. And then as you said, that quick trigger that that could be really not fit with regular life because people you could jump to conclusions, you could have a much stronger reaction than the situation warrants. And that like you said, that worked in the military, but

Tracy Collins (37:50)

No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (38:01)

that doesn't necessarily work when you're just in a regular job or at home with your family. And then if there's PTSD in there, as you were saying, if he, when he would hit you, you could tell he was out of control at that point. So his brain was probably misfiring completely. It's a cognitive dissonance to know how you should really act is what's happening. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (38:06)

Mm.

Hmm.

Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, absolutely. And you put his own

childhood trauma in there and you layer that with PTSD. And we know that there's ⁓ likely some predispositions to somebody getting PTSD based on kind of those trauma pieces or if you've got, ⁓ there is some research to say that if you've got a smaller hippocampus, which can tend to happen through trauma as well, it might predispose you to that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (38:53)

That's so

interesting. An interesting sidebar. when we were in college, a friend of mine was older than us because he went into the army, came out of the army. The army paid for him to go to college. He's five, six years older than us. The Gulf War broke out and he got called up. So he had to leave college and go to basic training again or kind of get ready to go. And then he didn't get deployed and he came back.

Tracy Collins (39:05)

if

GenX Adulting Podcast (39:20)

I remember we were good friends. He's like, man, they really, I'm struggling because I was taking out of my wonderful world here and taught to be a killer again. I was getting reprogrammed to get deployed for the hyper vigilance of watch your own back, but be ready to kill. And then it was like, they sent him back as like, joke's over. Nevermind. Go back to being a civilian. So it's very much in line with what you're talking about where.

Tracy Collins (39:32)

Thank

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Thanks.

GenX Adulting Podcast (39:50)

that hyper vigilance, the they mess with your head. It's and it's a fascinating thing to hear because we're here in the US you're describing something, you know, thousands of miles away in Australia. But this is a collective thing again. And we have a very heavy military presence. Sounds like Australia. You do. We're partners in the world. Right. It's very interesting. Yeah. Well, and then also the hyper vigilance that

Tracy Collins (40:06)

and

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (40:20)

He learned in the, your father learned in the military, but he was already hypervigilant from his trauma and then raising children and the children became hypervigilant because of his, his hypervigilance and his trauma. Well, it's that again, generational trauma. So I assume there was mental and emotional abuse along with physical abuse in the house. Was that on both you and your sister?

Tracy Collins (40:36)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I learned a bit earlier than my sister though to I learned the power of my words and how to use them to use as a shield. Yeah, I learned how to call his behavior out and in a way that I could hold him off.

GenX Adulting Podcast (40:55)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (41:12)

I learned that my sister was much more dysregulated. ⁓ And so she found that harder. She got up harder than me.

GenX Adulting Podcast (41:22)

He got it harder, not you, you didn't distract him to you?

Tracy Collins (41:26)

because I learned to stay calm. I learned that if I stayed, if I got emotional, if I was like, you know, and that would, it was almost like it made him more like, right, he just made him more out of control. And I learned that if I just got really calm and I spoke slower,

GenX Adulting Podcast (41:45)

It ramps it up, yeah.

Tracy Collins (41:54)

with real intention that it was this, he ⁓ just really didn't have a of a place to go.

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:03)

snapped him out

of it. was like a counter to his chaos, know, his over-stimulation and it kind of snapped him out of it. What age were you when you started doing that?

Tracy Collins (42:06)

Mm, yeah.

Yeah.

⁓ in high school.

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:18)

Okay, so when, what is your?

Tracy Collins (42:21)

But it wasn't really

conscious fully. was just, it wasn't even a fully conscious thing. It's just what my nervous system was started to do, which that's a very ADHD thing. So ADHD, when there's a threat or an immediate kind of response. So somebody that's got ADHD, brain's pinging around everywhere. You've got a choking child in front of you or something like that. needs your immediate, just, everything just goes, it becomes super calm. And we just go in, you know,

GenX Adulting Podcast (42:50)

my God,

I do that. do that. In high stress situations, I become immediately calm and focused. I'm the cool and calm one. You're right, but I have a million. If you ask, I tell Brian all time, I have too many tabs open in today. I have so many tabs open in my brain. It's so conditional though. But if I, again, but like for example, a couple of Thanksgivings ago, our oven caught on fire and he's normally the calm, rational one.

Tracy Collins (42:51)

Yeah.

You're the cool and calm one.

Okay.

GenX Adulting Podcast (43:19)

He started freaking out and I went into total calm and just took care of everyone in the house was like, and I was just no, this is I just stopped it. And then I just continued on with making Thanksgiving dinner with like nothing really had happened. And he's like, I'm usually the calm one. I would normally walk over and do what she did. But I was like, what the hell do I do here? I was looking for the fire extinguisher. Like you said, if my niece was she was choking when she was young. And again, everyone started and I just said, can she speak? And they were like, I'm like,

asked her to say a word and she did and I said she's not choking because she can talk to you like she's she's gagging like but she's not because they were freaking out like she can't breathe like she can breathe because she's saying words so she's talking to you keep her talking like I and then we started dealing with the situation she had something stuck in her throat but but that is so is that is that a sign of ADHD or or one of the signs

Tracy Collins (44:12)

Yeah, you know, and there's obviously somebody who's maybe had trauma would maybe be the same, but ADHD, if we look at it the way the brain's going is that we have, with ADHD, the frontal lobe with our executive functioning, all of that, there, we have kind of like this misfiring of how we connect. So we need dopamine to connect it. So ⁓ in a heightened state,

It's like our brains just go online and we've got this focus, we see it and it's just like bang. So we get in that moment, we get all the nice little neurochemicals just to kind of put our brain online. That's how it kind of, when I'm looking at the functionality and trying to explain how that would work, we get that adrenaline, we get that, but we use it to put our brain online. Does that make sense to you?

GenX Adulting Podcast (44:45)

What a trip.

It

regulates it. Yes. Yeah. What a trip. That is such a trip. thought of it or heard of it that way. But like you said, also could be being able to do that could be a sign of trauma too, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, I'm trained for this moment. Yeah, like, because you're, like the hypervigilance, the walking on eggshells, the fight or flight. Like, if you've grown up like that, when there's anything, anything traumatic happening, it's like, oh, I know how to handle this.

Tracy Collins (45:18)

Totally.

Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (45:36)

Like

I can handle trauma, I can handle emergency situations because my body and mind were trained for this my whole life.

Tracy Collins (45:45)

My kids always kind of joke because they say, ⁓ we know that if ⁓ someone broke into the house or was threatening the kids, they're like, we know mum would be the one at the front. She'd go all types of psycho, because she would just be like, whoop, bang, you know, like, I would do whatever it takes. But they said, we know that I would just.

GenX Adulting Podcast (45:54)

Yes.

Yeah? Yeah.

Tracy Collins (46:07)

there would be no,

and it would just be the way that it is. And it's funny how they can recognise that when it comes to those heightened things that it's just like, mums all go, mums like bang in there. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (46:19)

Yeah, we're like,

we're like Linda Hamilton and Terminator. We're like Terminator 2, Terminator 2, where she kicked ass. that's kind of, I visualize that sometimes after I've taken care of a situation. And my one of my kids is like, my God, and I'm, I just went in that mode. I'm like, that's just what I go into my Linda Hamilton mode took care of it. Okay, now I'm back to making cookies, but I can, I can flip into that mode like that, you know.

Tracy Collins (46:31)

Mm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

100 %

and it's just this sharpened focus and everything just is lovely and crystal clear and calm. like why can't my brain be like that all the time? ⁓ But anyway. Yeah absolutely. Well the job that I've got now though it is a little bit like that and I think that's why I'm enjoying it so much because it is like putting like I am literally putting out fires all day which I quite like. ⁓ But yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (46:52)

Why can't I have emergencies around me all the time?

Right.

That makes sense though.

Tracy Collins (47:16)

The thing with ADHD though, which is quite interesting though, especially for women, because there has been a big explosion of ADHD, talking about it, conversations, all of these things. And what I find quite fascinating is that many of us women now, ⁓ going into perimenopause, menopause, we're undergoing such changes in our brain.

And so the changes that are happening are a loss in like gray matter and all that, which operates very much also it alters the dopaminergic system, which our brains rely on if you've got ADHD. We've also got lowered estrogen, which means that we're not producing as much dopamine. And so for a lot of us that are, our window of tolerance is just like wafer thin, you know, and people are.

I think it's great that we're finally talking about this because back in our parents' day, our moms just like they white knuckled it, know, perimenopause and stuff. And there's such, we're only just really looking into it now, but understanding the chemical and the structural changes that are happening, this reduced window of tolerance that most of us are feeling. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (48:15)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (48:32)

and how that relates to our hormones and why we're basically all of a sudden exposing this ADHD more than ever and all the symptoms like the brain fog, they're not being able to apply ourselves and we usually attribute it to there's something wrong with me, I'm just not coping, I'm weak, I'm failing, which is I think very much of our female psyche, know, how we tend to be very hard and berate ourselves.

For me, ⁓ I was in denial for very long time. It was just like, I just need to try harder. I just need to grind through it.

GenX Adulting Podcast (49:10)

Grind through it.

Grind through it. Well, how is perimenopause, how do you think it correlates with the rise in ADHD diagnoses ⁓ in our age group with Gen X women in particular, obviously with Gen X women? ⁓ How does that match up? Why is that happening, do you think?

Tracy Collins (49:25)

Thank

I think because we've finally gotten awareness ⁓ about ADHD, I think we've also finally gotten awareness around perimenopause and also the effects of how estrogen plays a role. So that's the first one. ⁓ Just I think better understanding, better diagnostics, know. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (49:37)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (49:57)

And essentially when I went and addressed the perimenopause, I just flippantly said, I feel like I'm ADHD. She goes, well, you could be. And I'm thinking, well, I've never had it all my life. Like, you know, I just attributed my behaviors and my thought patterns to myself. And ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (50:14)

Right.

Tracy Collins (50:17)

She said, look, have a look into it. But I did the estrogen and straight away that started lowering the anxiety, the window of tolerance just got a little bit better and it was like, okay, this is feeling good. Still had a little bit of a screen of the ADHD and I thought I might be a little bit ADHD. Went through, got diagnosed and it was basically like, no, you're not just a little bit ADHD, you are severely ADHD. And now being medicated and

seeing the changes of that. ⁓ was really interesting. was some of it was, you know, I went through was almost a grieving process in some ways because it was realising that it didn't have to be that hard all the time. Like I had normalised the amount of difficulty that was life. And I, there were so many parts, it was like I was given

all the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle and every time I picked up a piece I was going that I thought was me I'd go ⁓ that's ADHD that's ADHD I didn't understand the relationship with food I didn't realize that my constant battle with trying to not eat because you know we grew up in that waif era and I'm like you need a waif I'm never going to be a waif and that was

And so I always thought I was very undisciplined with food. What I realize now is that was my brain's, my body's way of trying to turn my brain on. I used food to try and wake myself up constantly. So I was always snacking and I couldn't not snack, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (51:54)

So is food noise a symptom of ADHD to some degree?

Tracy Collins (51:58)

Yeah, binge eating disorder is apparently very prevalent with ⁓ ADHD, but I didn't realise that food in itself, there was a huge food component because it could be, it's almost like a stimming as well. It could be to help regulate. It could be to turn our brains online. So I think I used it sometimes, yeah, just for comfort or I used it and we all emotional eat, I think to a degree or, you know, food's yummy. ⁓ But

thinking about food so much or thinking about I shouldn't eat or I should eat. Like I thought about food a lot and now having met you have food noise. think that's a really good way of putting it. like that food noise because it was noise in my head and being medicated has just it's like, oh, I could just I can concentrate on other things and it's not there. It's like what you were saying Nicole like

GenX Adulting Podcast (52:36)

Yeah, the food noise.

Tracy Collins (52:58)

I've still got 30 tabs open in my head, but I can concentrate on one or two. They're not all streaming at the same time with the same amount of intensity. And having that flexibility is very empowering. ⁓ My rejection sensitivity, like didn't know that that was also, I was so high that it was outside of the scope of what it was.

GenX Adulting Podcast (53:02)

Yeah.

Right.

I'm blown away.

Tracy Collins (53:27)

I thought that my reactions and sensitivities and my expectations of how I'm reacting to people, I thought that was in the scope of normal and now with medication and obviously I'm doing a lot of psychoeducation for myself, really realizing that, wow, like that was just a part of my brain which is that on off. It's part of the ADHD profile.

GenX Adulting Podcast (53:53)

What is so interesting rejection sensitivity that is I've never thought about that. That's a thing. And I've known people that have that and I never ⁓ I never would have correlated that with ADHD ever. It's yes. I want to I'm going to look more into that. So.

Tracy Collins (54:08)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So with,

and then like what we're saying though, you've got ADHD, but then if you looked at trauma, it would make sense. And inherently having our brains wired that little bit differently with ADHD is that we're inherently going to be a bit more traumatized. know, if things just are a little bit harder, cause we, we've white knuckling it through life a little bit more, especially when you're medicated.

But if you think about rejection sensitivity that it's this ⁓ threat detection almost, you you're trying to make yourself safe. with rejection sensitivity dysphoria, you'll interpret a threat response at a much lower threshold. So I thought initially that this was more to do with trauma, but now that I've the medication for ADHD and it's just fallen away and dropped off significantly,

I realized that that was part of the ADHD. And that's, you know, more neurological. So ADHD out of all the...

⁓ Diagnoses and disorders you can have is the one that is most likely going to respond to medication if you've got it. When I first went on medication, it was at a very low dose and I was actually falling asleep. And this is from a central nervous system, like stimulant, I was falling asleep. So my doctor was like, you're 100 % ADHD if you're falling asleep on this medication. ⁓

But yeah, it's quite fascinating how when you look at rejection sensitivity, the food ⁓ and all these other aspects of that influx of information, like always feeling so much because you've got all this information streaming all the time. Just to be able to like hone that down is so lovely.

GenX Adulting Podcast (56:08)

What is the medication or what is its intended effect? Is it to raise your dopamine levels or?

Tracy Collins (56:16)

So there's two ⁓ classifications of ⁓ medications you can go on, one stimulants, one's non stimulants. So depending on the type you have as well. So you've got ⁓ like your hyperactive impulsivity and then you've got your inattention and I've got both. So I wouldn't say I'm hyperactive but I definitely would be impulsive. And then there would be the inattention and the

medications, ⁓ you've got a whole heap in say the stimulant side, ⁓ the central nervous stimulants, short long acting. They essentially they originally thought that it was that it gives you dopamine, which there's some information now coming out saying that it's just essentially what it's doing is making your brain feel more wakeful, wakefulness. ⁓ But essentially, essentially in practice, what it is, is that it

allows you to produce more dopamine and it connects your brain together because it's usually the executive dysfunction like cognitive executive dysfunction. So the frontal lobe, we can't really connect to it effectively and efficiently in a very functional way. So the medication helps us connect to the frontal lobe.

GenX Adulting Podcast (57:32)

So it helps

facilitate that connection to produce the dopamine, but it's not actual dopamine replacement type of situation.

Tracy Collins (57:38)

Yeah, no, I think that there's,

there are some unknowns. As much as there's knowns, I think there's some unknowns. The other part of it is that I was reluctant at first to do medication. However, what I really have come to appreciate is that there is a lot in control of ADHD as well. So regular sleep cycle, so going to bed at the same time, waking up at the same time.

how alcohol affects our sleep. ⁓ Good exercise is like, you know, a little bit of ADHD medication, basically eating well, ⁓ how sugar affects it as well, and making sure that you've your vitamin B12, D, all those cofactors for producing dopamine. So good health. ⁓

So we've got a lot in control. And so when you're on medication, a lot of people think, I to be on medication for the rest of my life. And they don't necessarily because of the beautiful thing of neuroplasticity. For example, my goal is I am immersing myself in knowledge, but I'm also applying it. So I'm really doing all the things to help me basically make new neural pathways. where I'm working on with this is maybe over the next two years kind of thing.

I can hopefully make enough neuroplastic changes because the medication is allowing me to do that. And then in about two years, kind of tight trade off, see if I can go off of it. I've been told if I do want to go back on it would be at a significantly lower dose, at least half. But there is a basically what happens is there's a pool of people that can make those neuroplastic changes and go off medication and don't have to go back on it.

And then there is a pool that can go back on. And then there are some people that just don't apply themselves. They take the medication, but they don't really make any changes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (59:36)

Right, you have to like with anything, especially any medication, you really should make lifestyle changes along with it to support it. It's, know, like I'm on thyroid meds, I'm on HRT, but I do a hundred other things in my life to support what those medications do for me. And if I don't do one of those things, I can feel it. Yeah, it's the exercise, ⁓ it's eating right, it's sleep, it's all of that. I was gonna ask you,

Tracy Collins (59:57)

Absolutely.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:00:04)

Do you think ADHD is related to depression and anxiety at all?

Tracy Collins (1:00:10)

Yes, and that's where it gets misdiagnosed a lot. ⁓ But because I do have ADHD, I had a thought that I think is really important for your viewers as well to know about is the other thing is if you have ADHD and you are unmedicated, you are three times more likely to get dementia. You raise your risk factor by three times.

So being on medication lowers that risk back to your base, your normal baseline of what it should be. So I think that's another really compelling reason that if you are, you know, when you're looking at all these factors about why, why not, do I get diagnosed? Do I take medication? Not understanding that, and we're in a really critical window. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:00:36)

Interesting.

Tracy Collins (1:01:04)

right now in our age group about the lifestyle changes we can make to moderate that those risk factors for dementia.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:01:14)

That is so interesting. then, and I do, I know I want to, we're going to touch on dementia more, dementia prevention ⁓ more in this episode. But as far as ADHD and depression and anxiety, did you find, well, did you have depression or anxiety in addition to the ADHD? Did you find going on the ADHD meds then helped with the depression and anxiety?

Tracy Collins (1:01:16)

Yeah.

Yes.

Absolutely. So historically I've had some, you know, periods of depression, periods of anxiety, probably had a ⁓ baseline of anxiety most of the time. And that's where most women are also misdiagnosed. You know, they are misdiagnosed with that. Medication never really did anything for me. ⁓ Antidepressants, it maybe helped a little bit, but not really. ⁓

And the way it felt when I went on the ADHD medication was a really good analogy is it was like glasses for my brain. You know, we started and it was like, oh, okay, that's okay. And then all of a sudden it was like clear. So if you can imagine, know, when you've got your glasses, like my son is a good...

reference point. He had glasses from the age of eight and then it was at 16 we went to a different optometrist and he said his scripts out by like 50 percent. So he put contact lenses on him, came home and he looked out, my son looked out over the hills and he was like, it was like seeing a blind child sing for the first time because he's going

mom, I can see the trees and the branches off in the distance. I can see all these things that have been in his environment all his life. And he's seeing them crystal clear for the first time. I'm like, Yeah, honey, is it? And he's like, Can you see it that way? And I'm like, Yeah. And he's like, my God, we thought he had corrected vision for eight years. And he didn't he was for the first time seeing everything. And we're like, you poor bugger you've been we thought we'd corrected it, but he'd been through school. And so

I kind of seeing that him being able to see clearly, it was just like, my God. And I felt like that with the medication, was like, I got it and it like, yeah, was maybe a bit better. But you've got no reference point of having a different way of thinking. But as soon as the medication was the right amount, it was just like, my God, I can think clearly. can, it was just that my glasses are on my brain.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:03:55)

That's amazing.

So for listeners who maybe listening to this and being like, that sounds like me that I need, I want to get tested. Is it a psychiatrist you go to get tested for ADHD? I'm like, how is it now? How do you get diagnosed? Yeah, back when we were kids, I know it was always a psychiatrist, but with things changing, I don't know if that's changed.

Tracy Collins (1:04:14)

Yes.

Well within Australia, just as of this year 2006, it was always a psychiatrist prior to 2006. ⁓ Now it's your GP. And I don't know what it's like with regulations in America because the medication is highly regulated, which is good.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:04:35)

I'll have to look into that. I'm

going to ask our GP. She'll tell it because she's great. She'll tell us if it's her or not. And if it's not, she'll tell us who because I... She loves that stuff. She works for a research hospital. Yeah. that is so interesting. I may put that in the show notes for anyone in America if I find the answer to that. so, OK, so you're basically going through your childhood.

Tracy Collins (1:04:45)

Yeah.

Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:05:00)

with a dad with PTSD who's mostly mentally, physically abusive, alcoholism, you have undiagnosed ADHD, trauma. You're grinding through, but around high school is when you kind of zoned in on, okay, you just started staying calm to counter his abuse. ⁓ That's going on in the home. In school,

Tracy Collins (1:05:17)

Mmm.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:05:27)

Was it affecting school? Were you still thriving academically? Were you participating in extracurriculars? Was your social life, were you still able to thrive outside of the home or was what was going on in the home, did that affect what was going on in school?

Tracy Collins (1:05:41)

Yeah, that's a really

good question. So I got bullied a lot ⁓ and interestingly that's another very common thing for ADHD. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:05:56)

Now, why

is that?

Tracy Collins (1:05:59)

I, there's probably a few things in that, because if you think about the trauma piece in that, and maybe my need for being liked meant that ⁓ boundaries, know, ⁓ I think bullies pick people out pretty quickly, you know, ⁓ and where you lie on that. So my need to be liked overrode.

my ability to stand up for myself. didn't have those, that sense of it was okay to stand up for myself and boundaries. And so that was very much, so I was very much bullied in primary school for being chubby and then high school got worse. I kind of thinned out a bit and then guys started showing a bit of interest in me and then girls started hating me for all new.

reasons. you know, people find whatever reason they can. And but I think my behaviour just got more erratic in high school. But now having this and I was really hard on myself at the same time and

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:06:56)

thing.

Tracy Collins (1:07:12)

Even retrospectively through life, was like, why was I just like, my academics went to shit in high school. I couldn't apply myself. Like I couldn't keep focused. So would just zone out of, ⁓ you know, I was doing chemistry and physics and high maths and everything just went, cause I would be sitting there going, and I didn't know at the time that it was the ADHD, but I would just be listening and I would just zone out, come back and go, I've got no idea where we're at.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:07:37)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:07:38)

You know, it

really did affect me in that way. ⁓ And understanding now how affected ADHD is by hormones. So you think about the times that women are going to, maybe if they're back as well, if they're not really sure, what was their behavior around in that ⁓ adolescent stage, you know, when you're getting all this estrogen, all these other hormones to inform your body.

that was a big window for me where it just all kind of like was chaotic and fell apart for me. But also when you're pregnant, know, if women have had maybe some fluctuations with when they were through their pregnancies, that's the other big fluctuation times that they might find that that was really difficult for them. But it's difficult through those times anyway. So I think.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:08:32)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:08:32)

everybody's

challenged through those periods but I feel like if you just felt like it was just that bit harder.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:08:40)

Yeah.

Well, and I wonder if ⁓ women, you you go through so many ⁓ different cycles through the month with your menstrual cycle, you know, the luteal, all the phases, the luteal phase, the follicular phase, all that. ⁓ So even when you're going through like PMSing before you get your period and your hormones, you almost wonder that could ramp up ADHD. you know, like depending on and you don't even maybe that's on top of the PMS, you don't know. But that could be it.

Tracy Collins (1:08:52)

Yes.

Yeah.

No, the so

yeah, and a lot is very co occurring with ADHD to have the pre menstrual dysphoria syndrome, where you it and it's I think the thing is, we will all have changes is when it becomes functionally impairing. So people can also have ADHD, but it really they can function completely fine on it. You know, it's really that when you are having trouble functioning that that is the really telling.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:09:31)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:09:38)

you know, aspect of it all. ⁓ So with that pre-menstrual dysphoria just ⁓

It's almost like clinical depression in for that week, but then it lifts. It's like this wet blanket that gets put over you and then it lifts. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:09:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

I wish we had words for that back then. I know I had that. I definitely had that. ⁓ Because I would go deep. would and I had trauma and I had like I had all the severe thing all the severe trauma and all that. But that week before, I would cycle down into a dark, dark, dark place. I mean, there's times I was having like suicidal ideation going on, stuff like that. And then I get my period and I'm like, Hey, everything's fine.

Tracy Collins (1:09:59)

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:10:20)

You know, and it was like, it's crazy. And then if you're with someone and not to men an excuse to say, you on your period? Cause I hate that shit. But if you, when I look back and I think there were times, and then of course I'm self-medicating with alcohol, which please, it's like gasoline on a fire, please. So your partner, you know, and especially if your partner's in a void in or like a Gen X man and they're not like,

Tracy Collins (1:10:30)

it.

Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:10:48)

Emotionally developed and we've talked about this. He knows what I'm talking about. We've covered this on episodes, but like they're not they're not Equipped as a generation, right? Like they're so It could just be a complete chaotic bomb in a relationship if you have if you have let's say ADHD and you have the premenstrual dysmorphia, that's called Yeah, and then you're so you're losing it and then you have

Tracy Collins (1:10:55)

Is that what?

Yeah.

for you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:18)

⁓ a male partner who doesn't know how to deal with it. He's like, what the hell is going No one does. No one does. And then you wake up the next day and you're happy go lucky. they're probably like, what's going on? They've been on this ride. What's happening? You're like, no, I'm fine. I like you now. I don't want to kill you in your sleep. But it's crazy that what our generation of women had to go through with no words for any of this.

Tracy Collins (1:11:28)

They're in trauma! ⁓

Yeah.

No words, no language, no conversation, no understanding that it's actually like being driven on a biological level is not just a, I'm crazy, those kinds of things. And I think we would attribute it to being crazy or being weak or neurotic or having daddy issues. Like all the derogatory stuff that was kind of labeled on it, which

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:11:58)

Right.

Tracy Collins (1:12:11)

really stopped us from having conversations and understanding it. And I feel like these conversations that we're having, you know, it is great that we're speaking about it and females having an understanding, but I think it's so equally important for men to be able to also hear this so we can cultivate some compassion, not only from the men to the women, but the women to the men of going, this must be difficult.

to navigate, you know, a partner that is, you when we're talking about it from the female perspective of going through these things, having that compassion back was going, yeah, like how I actually am not really knowing how to cope. I'm expecting you to read all this and just somehow know. ⁓ And so I think as well, just that compassion back going, yeah, like that's really difficult for you to navigate.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:12:59)

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. you could

have I'm sure there's marriages that have fallen apart because of this because there has been no understanding or education because no one knew and if the education was there then They could have been given tools to get through to understand this isn't well you guys This is what's happening to you guys, but it's not you guys But then there's probably a label or a word to describe the male reaction to that could

Tracy Collins (1:13:11)

100%.

Thank

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:13:34)

that doesn't exist today or maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but there is a reaction we have, right? And maybe it's you're just being obtuse or you're being insensitive, but there's really some more clinical definition of that response. And maybe it is that avoidance, right? It's like, oh my God, here we go. All right, let's take the next five days off. I'm gonna just hunker down and deal with this. But there is a clinical.

Tracy Collins (1:13:37)

Thank

Okay.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:14:01)

Definition you can wrap around could be disconnect like that avoidance that disconnect like I can't this is too much So I'm just gonna be quiet But if you know that to your point I believe in evolution and all this stuff right in the world continues to evolve But if there's a label for that behavior then the man can or the young man, right? We're kind of pass it at our point in some ways, but a younger man could ⁓ Understand because it's clinically defined or it's defined in some way that

Tracy Collins (1:14:12)

Thank

you

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:14:31)

When she does this, I do that, and she's doing this because of that, and because of that, I'm doing this. If you can explain it, then it's... Giving him tools. You can rationalize it. It's a To support her. To support her. But also, she needs to know what's going on, because she might have ADHD, or she might could maybe benefit from some hormone help, or make sure her B12, or her D is okay, or...

Tracy Collins (1:14:45)

Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:15:00)

There's a whole bunch to check here and make sure she's okay. What I'm finding fascinating is the broad term of ADHD and I'm curious in your studies is it getting further refined because right now what you've been talking in very broad strokes and in some ways of specific behavior related to ADHD. I'm curious if you're finding that there's

it's ADHD dash this or ADHD that type of thing, or there's just new term, premenstrual dysmorphia. Never heard of that, but it makes perfect sense, right? So I'm curious if you're seeing that as you get further into this, a whole other language, Like another level up, like this type of ADHD, this type to refine it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

Tracy Collins (1:15:37)

Yeah.

And there absolutely is. And I think that there's lots of discussions around, you know, ⁓ attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. ⁓ And with those two clumped together, they really, yeah, they need to be a little bit more nuanced in there, ⁓ in their descriptions, because ⁓ I think that's where they're going, like the attention deficit disorder. So that's really your inattention.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:16:10)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (1:16:21)

style. ADHD is when you've got the two but when we're looking at hyperactivity it's really there's hyperactivity and there's impulsivity. So they're actually two different things but people because of the name that was given I guess had its own identity which has really been about that hyperactivity ⁓ but it's really missed out that inattentive and the impulsivity ⁓ aspect.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:16:49)

It feels like it's time to redefine it because to your point, I can think of kids where I've as parents looking at other kids and saying, well, he's got a good attention, but he's very hyper. And so you get confused as parents how to deal with it or accommodate other children or whatever. can you can somebody just be attention deficit and not hyper and not impulse. They have to be having having pulse control and not be hyper, but just be the AD.

Tracy Collins (1:16:52)

Yeah.

Mm.

Totally.

Totally. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They can be completely inattentive type. So that would be your daydreamer, just not being able to apply yourself. Things in the environment wouldn't even be really that obvious. Like, I don't know if it's just a teenage boy thing though as well ⁓ that I deal with at the moment, because it's like, you've walked past that piece of rubbish like a million times. ⁓ And it doesn't seem to cue, but yeah, there can be an absolute inattention. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:17:20)

You

Right, right.

Tracy Collins (1:17:45)

And again, just circling back ⁓ to the changes as well, didn't realise, so there's actually like an almost an ADHD tax or cost, you know, that we have in our lives from maybe sometimes reckless spending.

you know, ⁓ and like relationships, but on a financial level, there's a massive financial cost because of the burnout cycles as well that are very, very common. ⁓ And also things like, yeah, going on a shopping spree, now when I go shopping, I don't get that same buzz from it. ⁓

And I was just, the reason I'm bringing this up is because I've just thought of like the other parts that are very common, but having a high sense of justice is another massive trait of ADHD. ⁓ Having a very high sense of justice.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:18:38)

What is it? Can you

give examples of something?

Tracy Collins (1:18:44)

So ⁓ if I was in an environment and somebody's really just doing the wrong thing, I've got such, it will be so salient to me and so obvious that there's an imbalance or there's an injustice here and I will often have to deal with it and address it because I can't stand seeing an injustice occurring.

And in a work environment that doesn't always bode well, you know. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:19:17)

Right. Because

in the work environment, you have to be political a lot of times. And so it's hard if you can't necessarily fight the good fight every turn and get along with everyone, at least in the corporate world. It's nuanced, so that would make sense. Is that kind of what you mean?

Tracy Collins (1:19:22)

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

⁓

Yeah, yeah, and also go, that's not my battle. I don't need to deal with that. I sometimes would be like, you know, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:19:41)

Right. Not taking it all on.

Yes. Yes. That's why it explains why you might be able to watch someone get beaten up in the streets and not jump in and get involved. Well, that would be that would lack like, you mean like instead of and I don't know, because I feel like you're seeing someone getting beaten up in the streets. You would bad example. That's example. ⁓

Tracy Collins (1:19:52)

Yes.

But if you did see something, ⁓ you'd be more, I think, you'd probably notice little things even more so, like if somebody else got cut off, you'd go, that was really terrible of them. ⁓ But yeah, I think that just injustice in the world, or even if you're watching a movie, you would really feel that sense of injustice. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:20:25)

Well, so

that's interesting. So do you think N-Paths have some ADHD then?

Tracy Collins (1:20:30)

Yeah, I think that I always consider myself an empath. And it's those things of being able to go into a room and you're picking up on all these little subtle micro cues. I thought that was an empath, but now I go as very ADHD. fact that I can, shift in tone in the voice.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:20:34)

Mm-hmm.

Is it?

Tracy Collins (1:20:55)

that little inflection in the eye, that we can read rooms and energy so well. ⁓ And you lay there with some injustice.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:21:02)

That's how interesting it

is. That is fascinating. If I see someone else cry, I cry. It brings tears to my eyes. If I'm on social media, I don't watch movies that are upsetting in general. I just can't anymore because I just can't. But if I do, I'm like, everything hits so, so much. I used to be, before menopause, menopause helped me with this because I used to feel...

Tracy Collins (1:21:09)

yeah.

Thanks.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:21:32)

other people, what they were going through. I'd feel so bad and I'd dwell on it and that injustice, right? And it would really, really bother me where now since my estrogen went way down and I have much less, you know, F's to give about things, it actually helped me balance out some of that. And I could separate myself easier from situations. Like that's not my battle. That's not my fight.

Tracy Collins (1:21:36)

Mm.

Good. Good.

Mm.

that space, yeah, and find that space.

⁓ Yeah, that and that's a that is really nice to be able to do that. And I think even having that awareness, you know, from my perspective of going, that's something that I have that is, it is inherently me. But at the same time, it's an attribute that I've got because of my wiring. So I can, I feel like I've got a bit more choice in how much I

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:21)

Right.

Tracy Collins (1:22:27)

I'm in that feeling now.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:30)

Yes, like you can control it. Whereas before you were just in it. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:22:32)

Yeah, I've got more choice. Yeah, I've got more choice

and control in it because I've got that awareness because it's not just me, if you know what mean. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:41)

Yeah,

it hasn't taken over. Like you can you can manage it.

Tracy Collins (1:22:46)

Yeah, I've got some separation with it to be able to, I guess I'm observing these things now ⁓ in me rather than just being hijacked by the emotion. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:22:55)

That's a great way to put it, hijacked by the emotion. That's a great,

great way to put it. I want to go back to something you said, the burnout cycle. What is, what is that?

Tracy Collins (1:23:03)

⁓

Something that's very, very common is, ⁓ and also when we're looking at all these things, I know that we're focusing on ADHD, but I think as well just to kind of put a frame on this is having ⁓ understanding that you might have say ADHD, but we're looking at with Venn diagrams of the trauma and how much these things are overlapping and. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:23:24)

Yeah, totally.

Tracy Collins (1:23:28)

So there's other factors that can layer and then diagram in here. So understanding that this is might touch on a CPTSD or even autistic traits are very common or even bipolar or anxiety, depression. all these things come in there. the burnout cycle ⁓ is very common in terms of just

pushing yourself very, very hard ⁓ because inherently working memory is not so great. there's a lot more cognitive tacks to sometimes having to have the same output as somebody else who's neurotypical. ADHD people often will work more longer and harder because of the challenges in the brain. ⁓

we will also push ourselves a lot ⁓ and essentially just get to the point that it's burnout and then the recovery is not the same as just having a weekend off. like, it takes quite a long time because the nervous system is literally kind of ⁓ Because even within attention, you can have moments where you have absolute attention and you might go through a stage where you're really hyper-focused. So you're just trying to get through that job and that work. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:50)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (1:24:51)

And you'll be ignoring so many signs because you just have to get it done.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:24:55)

Well, and Gen X grind like we grew up, we grew up grinding, right? There was no space for us not to and we were so ⁓ what's the word validation through performance, right? Performance based validation, you your grades, your athletics, your everything, your job, like it was doing the best, trying the hardest. That's how we got our love, our acceptance or whatever. So you're just

Tracy Collins (1:24:57)

during the next round.

them.

Mmm!

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:22)

Like you're saying, but it's so interesting that burnout. So if it's taking someone with ADHD, let's say 10 times more effort to do ⁓ something that a neurotypical, that's what you said, neurotypical, right? Some for them to do. And then I always I've called it like your social battery is dead and you need time to recharge your social battery. But maybe for someone with ADHD, like you're saying, it's not just like

Tracy Collins (1:25:35)

you

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:25:52)

the weekend where you just need to like bed rot for Saturday and Sunday and then Monday you can jump back in. Like do they need to kind of completely disconnect for a week or something just to kind of re-regulate?

Tracy Collins (1:26:05)

Mm-hmm. Well, and it is a really common coping ⁓ mechanism ⁓ to need to isolate because you know to burn out ⁓ but the burnout can take sometimes months, know You know depending on what level that you've pushed yourself through Yeah, it can be really quite significant and it's I think from an absolute depletion of

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:26:14)

isolate.

interesting.

Tracy Collins (1:26:35)

your dopaminergic system. And that's why you might then be, you know, touching on those that depression ⁓ or touching on the that anxiety, depression, mood disorder kind of feeling. ⁓ Because it's just so depleted. ⁓ And then, or you might have like a physical breakdown as well, like in and amongst that, like your back might go. And didn't realize how much of that

was also playing into like my physical pain because when you're also stressed, you're gonna lower your immune system. But when you are low in dopamine and estrogen, so looking more discreetly around ⁓ this time period as well, that does affect your inflammation levels. And so you are going to feel more somatic pain, like exacerbated.

So you get physical pain in there as well, that's going to affect your brain a lot more, it's going to wear it down. ⁓ So there's lots of layers to this and you're more likely then to stop exercising. So then you're lowering all the good endorphins from that. So it's like this tightening and so the burnout is very extreme then. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:27:44)

Yes.

And does it, can it affect inflammation too?

Tracy Collins (1:27:54)

totally. Yeah, the lack of estrogen affects the inflammation for sure. And then the stress and the anxiety. ⁓ And absolutely with ⁓ ADHD as well. There's a lot of correlates now with inflammation and also a lot of research around having methylation issues in our system. Having the MTHFR. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:28:18)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (1:28:23)

And so we really do have to look after our diet and look at our absorption as well. For a lot of people as well, iron, ferritin levels can be a bit wacky, B12 as well. And one of the challenges with modern medicine, and unless you've got a really good GP, you can have a blood test and be in that lower normal level. And they go, oh, you're okay, you're in scope.

but you might actually need to be up the higher end of that B12 and iron in order to be making all this, know, because these are co-factors to making dopamine. You probably need a much higher base level. We need to take a little bit. I think when we grew up and like saying that Gen X thing, we grew up very much with that model of the doctor is prescriptive to us. You know, there's a hierarchy they know all.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:29:06)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (1:29:20)

But I

really feel like it's very important for us to be very informed and to be very much advocates for our experience of what we're having.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:29:27)

Yes. 100%. 100%. And that's,

and I mean, I will say thank God for the internet, you know, because we didn't have that growing up, but that is a place and social media, you know, and podcasts where we, we're, we're becoming the resources in a lot of ways for each other, but also for the younger generations. So my, goal and discussing a lot of all the things is when someone from the younger generation goes in,

Tracy Collins (1:29:44)

Absolutely.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:29:56)

Google's something, this may come up and provide them with some information. So they have the answers we never had and they have more awareness. So just to continue to use our voices. When you were in high school then, ⁓ did you have any, because you said your grades were going down and you were struggling, you were dysregulated. ⁓ Did you have any coping mechanisms? Like how did you deal with that?

Tracy Collins (1:30:01)

Mm.

Absolutely.

Mmm.

alcohol,

alcohol, started drinking ⁓ and there was a smoked pot. That was awful. I hated it. It wasn't good for my brain at all, but it was also kind of around. ⁓ I went through from high school to very early 20s. I

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:30:27)

alcohol.

Tracy Collins (1:30:51)

went on a bit of a, after high school, so for maybe three years, I went on a bit of a drug rampage. I was just, and what was unknown to me, which makes sense now, but things like when I was taking, you know, speed and cocaine and all those stimulants, it just kind of, when everybody else was like, woo, I was just like going, wow, this is kind of.

This is, this is cool, but it was, I was much more, it just clear headed. It just kind of made me feel awake and a little bit like it was actually, it, ⁓ I just felt more awake, you know, it was just, okay, cool. Like I could focus. ⁓ I felt more focused probably. ⁓ but I didn't feel the high that other people were having. ⁓ but yeah, it was a lot of drugs just to

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:31:26)

get leveled you out kind of.

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:31:51)

I didn't really know, I didn't have any coping mechanisms very much that I don't know if you have this reference in America, but I think we call it like the key latch, keys of the, know, basically. Yeah, yeah. So, you know,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:04)

LashKeyKid. LashKeyKid. yeah, we have that. ⁓

Most of GenX were LashKeyKids. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:32:11)

Yeah, yeah.

having that kind of ⁓ parents didn't even really say or pick up on anything, you know, and it was just for me, I remember getting to this point where I was so far removed from happiness. And I'm looking around going, is everybody just like faking this? And that's when I knew that I needed to go address it and get some help. That was in my early 20s. And I had that kind of

sliding door moment of do I want to go down and be like pathologized and treated ⁓ or am I going to go and help myself and I went on the self help road and you know and I was hanging around a lot of people that took drugs at the time so me I went out and got a Tony Robbins book you know a self-help book which was so not cool you know to do and I went home and I just that's where I kind of started ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:32:50)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:33:09)

that whole trek and but yeah it was it was not a great time.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:15)

Did you hit like a rock bottom type of moment type of thing?

Tracy Collins (1:33:18)

Yeah,

yeah, and it was literally like, yeah, just looking out so depressed, disconnected in my emotions. And I kind of thought, well, how bad does it have to be before somebody's even going to mention that this is maybe not right? You know, I was going this is just yeah, things weren't kind of lining up for me. And

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:37)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (1:33:44)

It was literally that I went and saw a doctor and they were like, well, yeah, you, you can stay here in hospital for a week and we can, you know, help you. And I was like, I just don't want, I just didn't want that road. I didn't want to have that clinical experience. And it was like, no, it was that wake up moment, like, things are that bad that that's where I'm at. And I was like, no sliding door. And ⁓ yeah, I went out and just.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:33:57)

Mm-hmm.

Alright.

Tracy Collins (1:34:13)

started that kind of journey, ⁓ which was great.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:34:16)

actually very cool.

it's amazing that it was in your early 20s. And that's also like you said, it wasn't cool. Even then it wasn't like the whole mental health awareness was a thing then it was still a very taboo was still looked down on. People did not discuss mental health even in our early 20s. So the fact that you had the wherewithal to even go get a self health book and be like, I'm gonna I need this I need this tool.

Tracy Collins (1:34:21)

Thank

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:34:45)

if I'm gonna do this.

Tracy Collins (1:34:46)

And I remember walking through ⁓ the bookstore and going to the self-help and it was almost like I was going into the porn section. I was just like, I was like, know, glasses on, not wanting. And like, here's my Tony Robbins book that I'm going to buy.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:05)

It's a gift. That's amazing. Well, so

when you graduated from high school, was college discussed in your home? Was it assumed that you'd go to school?

Tracy Collins (1:35:13)

No, so I didn't finish high school. yeah, I repeated year 11 in the end because I got really sick with glandular fever in the first year. ⁓ And then the second year I did year 11, I think I barely scraped through and passed it. ⁓ And so that really set me up on this as well. I was going, I know that I'm smart.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:16)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (1:35:43)

But on the other hand, I couldn't apply myself like to school. just couldn't just apply it. And it makes sense now. It's completely understandable. ⁓ So when I sat the test ⁓ to get into university and I was applying for cognitive neuroscience, which was like pretty lofty goal. ⁓ When I went in and did the test,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:35:52)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:36:10)

I didn't actually even complete, I wasn't able to complete the test. And I left in tears going, I'm never going to get into uni. I couldn't even complete the whole thing. But what I had answered was all right. So I basically nailed each section. So the fact that I hadn't even finished it, I still made the marks to get in. ⁓ And I remember just crying.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:35)

and how old were you then?

Tracy Collins (1:36:36)

Um, that was about 10 years ago. early 40s, early 40s, 42, I think. So that this was

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:36:42)

Okay, so that was, okay. So

you had that moment where you got in in your early 40s and you accomplished that. But at that time, you didn't even know you were ADHD. So you just knew you didn't finish the test, but you did well enough for they, that had to have been such a moment for you when they accepted you.

Tracy Collins (1:36:51)

Yes.

Yeah,

yeah, that was that was pretty amazing. And I think the other reason I was able to get through with that test is because it wasn't based on knowledge. It was based on pattern recognition, and all other different tests like that. So that's where my brain can do all of that. It can look at the abstract and find an answer. ⁓ So it wasn't measuring the traditional have you listened to this and

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:37:26)

interesting.

Tracy Collins (1:37:32)

have you retained it? Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:37:33)

regurgitation. That is so interesting. So okay so

then you essentially dropped out after repeating year 11 correct? And then and then you were having this this crisis with drugs. Were you working?

Tracy Collins (1:37:41)

Yeah.

Yeah, I was doing a hairdressing apprenticeship, I was very good at hairdressing. I won lots of awards. I even got flown over to America with a Aveda and doing stuff like that. Yeah, I love a Aveda

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:38:01)

Wow, I love a Aveda I've

been using a Aveda since ⁓ I was 19 years old, since 1990. 1990. Like right when it first started. I love a Aveda. Is a Aveda Australian? No. ⁓ Minneapolis, Minneapolis. Yeah. So were you working with a Aveda in Australia?

Tracy Collins (1:38:08)

Yeah. ⁓ wow. ⁓

No, no, it's American. Their headquarters is in... Yeah.

⁓ No, not at that time. So at that time I was working like with Redken and L'Oreal and stuff like that. you know, I was working in the country then I went to Adelaide and that was fantastic. And I had some like, but back then, God, they worked you hard. know, you put every day that you'd have a lunch break, you didn't have a lunch break. Like you were just like shoving food in, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:38:47)

Mm, yeah.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (1:38:55)

and you didn't get paid over time. And there was just all this extra. ⁓ And I think we did those things, know, we instilled such a strong work ethic from my parents, you know, which is a blessing and a curse in some ways. ⁓ There is no way. No.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:39:10)

Yes. Yes.

There's no work-life balance. We weren't raised with it. We weren't raised with it. No.

Tracy Collins (1:39:19)

And so yeah, then I started my first business when I was about 23 with hairdressing and yeah, it would enter competitions and I won some competitions and you know, I was written up in Harper's Bazaar as one of the top 10 colorists and all these kinds of things. So whatever I've always done, I've always had to do to the, had this perfectionism aspect. Yeah, and then.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:39:35)

Wow.

Hi, Achiever.

Tracy Collins (1:39:45)

as my salons progressed and I had kids in between but then I had the Aveda Salon and Spa and I just loved Aveda as a company ⁓ but I always struggled with hairdressing in terms of I was like, is this it? Is this it? Like, I feel like I'm capable of more and I was really just kind of going, I just want to shake things up a bit.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:39:55)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:40:12)

And I was having to watch TV one day with my husband at the time and he was watching cricket, but while waiting for the cricket, Master Chef came on and I've always been loved cooking and being in the wine industry as well, wine region, food, wine goes well together. And ⁓ he started doing the application for it going, well, cause I'm sitting there going, I could do better than that, blah, blah, blah, as you do, you know, from home viewers.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:40:29)

Right.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:40:41)

And then as a typical wife at the time, was like, looked at the application form, I was filling it out. like, you're doing that all wrong. And so I figured it out ⁓ and then got accepted into MasterChef. I was over at...

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:40:48)

Yes, yeah.

Okay, so

that's amazing. Just to take stock here. Okay, so you basically get clean on your own, starting with Tony Robbins self help book, and then you start your hair salon business. It sounds like you owned multiple salons.

Tracy Collins (1:41:03)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah,

I would grow and then I'd get a bigger one and renovate a bigger one.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:16)

Okay,

so you built this company up to and to having an Aveda salon which not everyone can have an Aveda salon like you're chosen to have a Aveda salon, right? Yeah, that I am very exclusive, right? And so that that alone is a huge feat. And then but you're still like, but in there you met your you met someone and got married.

Tracy Collins (1:41:23)

No

Yeah, you've been very disloyal.

husband? Yes, yes,

yes, we got married. We got pregnant with my daughter first, then had our second son got married and then I had our third ⁓ child, a boy as well. And ⁓ whilst I was doing that, he was building a wine business as well. Plus, we, you he had also had another full time job, we

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:41:45)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (1:42:03)

really stretch the limits and know reflecting back now it's kind of like when the marriage did ⁓ end we realized that we had put ourselves under the pump and me having the ADHD diagnosis has brought some really valuable conversations about the things that we just know the gaps that we didn't really know or understand. ⁓ I think close to 20 years yeah. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:42:23)

How long were you guys married?

About, or together, together about 20 years. So that was

through your 20s and 30s basically.

Tracy Collins (1:42:35)

Yep, yep, and early 40s. Yeah, and it's kind of like going back to what we discussing before, like, I had this ADHD and trauma, and ⁓ my husband, at the time, was beautiful man. ⁓ But it's that thing we were saying, like, where's the language for what he's going through when, ⁓ and so...

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:42:38)

and nearly four days.

Tracy Collins (1:43:02)

It actually took the separation of the marriage though for us to bear everything and put it on the table and his language before that was very challenged to be able to articulate and express himself. And I feel like, I guess after the marriage had separated and you know, we were able to sit down and put it all out.

And I feel like his emotional, not only emotional intelligence, but his emotional availability was increased outside of the marriage, because it wasn't the pressures and the strains of being in it. And I feel like that's probably a big puzzle piece for men, because they're just kind of getting through. So their emotional availability is kind of like a bit tapped out, because they don't really know where to tread maybe, you know. And ⁓ they haven't been given the tools.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:43:41)

Yes.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (1:43:59)

to be expressive a lot of the times in that emotional context and depth hasn't been modeled to them as, you know, manly, you know, they just, it's almost like, we'll double down and just functionally provide and do the functional things. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:44:17)

which

leads to the burnout. That's why I was curious because burnouts gotta be, you know, a big deal.

Tracy Collins (1:44:20)

Mm. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like the stress that he was having ⁓ was, he wasn't able to probably even articulate it as well. Because it was maybe not, he wasn't really in touch or in contact with that. ⁓ So yeah, a lot of beauty has actually come out of the separation. put our kids, honestly, if I think if he had...

we'd had this relationship in the marriage, it would have been very different. ⁓ But we always put the kids first. And I think that has always stayed very true and been kind of like that compass for us, which has been very, very valuable.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:45:09)

So you guys have been able to co-parent, no problem.

Tracy Collins (1:45:12)

Very well, yeah, very, well.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:45:14)

That's because you guys

have been ⁓ divorced now what about 10 years.

Tracy Collins (1:45:18)

⁓

Five years? Five, years? Yeah, yeah. And then you kind of go, where does this touch on with perimenopause and stuff? ⁓ it's funny that I start reflecting and looking back at things. yeah, it's all a process and it's all a learning. I think that I've been very fortunate to have ⁓ an ex-partner who is

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:45:20)

Just five. OK, so it's fairly new still. That's really new.

Tracy Collins (1:45:47)

been willing to grow outside of the relationship for the better of our kids, but then has also benefited ourselves. Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:45:51)

Yes.

That's wonderful. That's amazing. You guys

probably are finding a really beautiful friendship now.

Tracy Collins (1:46:02)

⁓ he's my best friend. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:46:04)

That's amazing. That's amazing. that's awesome. Okay. So now to go back though. So

he's the one who started the application and then you were like, no, no, I'm doing the application and you got on master chef, which is also a huge feat because it wasn't like you didn't go to culinary school, right? You weren't a professional chef. You're just this mom who likes to cook. I mean, were you shocked that you got chosen?

Tracy Collins (1:46:12)

Yes.

Yeah, I was. Because you're not allowed to have any qualif, but so back then, you couldn't have had any more than six weeks work experience in a professional kitchen. Yeah, so you had to.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:46:43)

interesting. They wanted

people that weren't professional. amateur. Amateurs. Yeah. Okay, okay. Okay.

Tracy Collins (1:46:48)

Pure amateurs, pure pure amateurs. And I think

I was on the sixth series. So when I got ⁓ chosen to be on there, I was actually in Spain at the time. ⁓ And so I had to, was in this little town called Cuenca, which had no ⁓ Wi-Fi or anything like that. So we met some guy who was, ⁓ who knew somebody, who knew somebody that had internet.

So then we like drove up at this goat track somewhere. had to, got to the house, nobody was home. We had to climb over the fence and I'm going, ⁓ my God, like is this like for real? Like are we breaking in somewhere? ⁓ But it was like pretty much the one house that had internet, yeah, scaled this fence. after that, you know, got on the, the, had an interview with the producer and I'm trying to like act all like.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:47:26)

my gosh.

Tracy Collins (1:47:46)

Yeah, like, hi. Hi, yeah, I haven't just gone up a go track and climbed a fence and I don't know whose house I'm in right now, but yeah, it's all good. Interviewed for that and then flew back, left the whole family in Spain to come back and my husband's sister was getting married in Spain. Yeah, they were there for a wedding. Came back.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:47:46)

What?

Were you guys just on vacation?

Oh, okay. Okay. So you're there for a wedding. And then

during the interview, did they say, okay, you're good, we want you?

Tracy Collins (1:48:17)

Well, no, so they said you come over and audition. So then I had to audition. Then you go through a lot of psychological ⁓ profiling. ⁓ And then just you kind of progress through these cooks to see how you're going. But I think they also don't want somebody who's like, yes, I'm boring. So I think they're testing your personality a bit. I didn't realize when we having one of our psych tests ⁓ that they were filming us.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:48:26)

Mmm.

Tracy Collins (1:48:47)

And I was there and they'd had questions like, if you found yourself in a cupboard, would you be scared? And I had like a thing and I'm going, why did I find my, like, was I roofied? Is that why I'm in the cupboard? Like, did I consciously put myself in the cupboard? why? know, like, I need some context to tell you how I'm gonna react. And ⁓ so I'm like talking like this with the others while we're doing this test, because it's all very loose. And I think that me just, I don't know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:49:01)

Right.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:49:16)

having the ADHD going blah blah blah blah blah. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:49:19)

You were

captivating. were like, she'll be good for TV. She'll be good. Yeah. So then how long did that go on? All that pre-screening.

Tracy Collins (1:49:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

That was maybe three months, I think and then Yeah, then they did some filming and then I went over there then they had the top 50 and only 24 of us got in Got into that which was great. And then that was six months then I was away filming in 24 24 Yeah

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:49:33)

Wow. Wow.

So wait, were top 50 and only four got in and you were one of them? 24, but still.

And so were you pretty much sequestered for six months?

Tracy Collins (1:50:00)

Yeah, yeah, so I thought I might last a week or two. So I kept, know, because everybody's getting eliminated. I think we had an elimination once a fortnight. And I made it to the top five. So I was there for six months. And back then, so I lived in a house with 24 contestants there. I had seven people in my room. There were three bathrooms for 24 of us. We had no access to our phones, computers.

internet. We were able to watch, ⁓ negotiated so we could watch Game of Thrones each week.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:50:37)

Wait, where were you?

Tracy Collins (1:50:38)

Melbourne, so completely different state, completely different state from my children. I had a 10 minute phone call with them once a week, but there was also had to be supervised. My youngest was in reception and my eldest was in year seven. Receptions just the year before. Yeah, it's in primary school here, but it's just before year one.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:50:40)

Okay. Okay.

old were they?

What's reception?

school.

Like six, five, six years old. Five, Why such secrecy so that you wouldn't leak anything out and it would hit the tabloids or something?

Tracy Collins (1:51:04)

Yeah, five, six years old.

Yeah,

I think it's a little bit like that because I didn't want people to know and like social media, Instagram was reasonably newish then. So they didn't want anything leaked. ⁓ But also, you know, if somebody from the outside said, hey, ⁓ Hesse and Bloomfield just flown in to Australia, we would know that he's likely probably going to be on the show or Gordon Ramsay or Curtis Stone. Like, you know, we had all these

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:51:19)

was true, right? Yeah.

No.

Tracy Collins (1:51:39)

big stars, Marco Pierre White, you know, we had all of those guys on the show. if we knew them. Exactly.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:51:44)

And then one of the surprise factor for you guys, they didn't want you to know ahead of time.

How hard was it to be away from your children for that long?

Tracy Collins (1:51:53)

That was very, very difficult. And I didn't really understand it because I honestly didn't think I'd make it that far through. I really, really didn't. ⁓ And so that was something that after I finished the show, ⁓ I promised them that I would never do it again. ⁓ But interestingly, the stress, the what...

that's in that six months, you are in this bubble of pressure. You you're sometimes doing 16 hour days, the pressure to perform, compete in this, like those timeframes are real, that they happen. You know, we were also, you're very controlled in terms of you're wired, you can go to the toilet now, you can't go to the toilet now, you can't walk past this area. Like it's all very tightly regulated, tightly controlled.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:52:38)

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:52:51)

I have so much respect for the production company. are the most amazing well-oiled machine. ⁓ And at the time when I did say that, is it this? It was with that control, but I guess it's always what they had done. And interestingly now, from a psychological perspective, there is no way you would get ethics approval to do that scenario.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:53:11)

Right.

I was about

to say, it sounds like a PSYOP, like a psychological operation almost, what you went through.

Tracy Collins (1:53:17)

Absolutely.

And psychologically, it pushes you to such an extreme. especially those of us that made it to the end, ⁓ really the stress was incredible. ⁓ And when I got out, it sounds like you got out of jail, when I got out, previous contestants, ⁓ the way we connected, and they would reach out.

was quite incredible. You had this bonded shared experience. Didn't know them at all, but you'd have this bonded shared experience. And I remember the runner up from the year before were on ⁓ a fundraiser walk and he never met him before, but he walked straight up to me, gave me a hug and he goes, how are you? And I went, yeah, you know, okay, good. And he goes, no, how are you? And I'm like, it's a bit rough coming out. And he's like, yeah, that's why I asked. He said, look,

be gentle on yourself, it's gonna take about a year. He said, from everything that I know, I've spoken to others, give yourself a good year, like the pressure, was, it's something that we didn't have any understanding of or concept before we went in.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:54:30)

What was the main pressure? Like what was to produce, to perform? Like what was the pressure?

Tracy Collins (1:54:39)

Yeah, I think it was multifactorial in as much as so you're sharing an environment, we've got no personal space. You're with people that are strangers, because you don't have any outside world. You're relying on strangers for your comfort, but they're also your competitors. So there's a lot of people playing psychological games. You're in your sleep deprived.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:54:58)

Yes.

Tracy Collins (1:55:01)

constantly, you know, I ended up purposely starting to sleep in my underwear because you'd get film crews coming in and the only way I could say get out was to say I'm in my underwear.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:55:15)

interesting.

Tracy Collins (1:55:15)

you know,

so, but otherwise you could have film crews popping in at 430. Sometimes you didn't know. So you kind of like always on this kind of like high alert. Then from the minute you're up, it's tightly controlled, and then you're on those competitions when you are producing the amount of adrenaline that you are living on is insane, you know, and the pressure that

you put yourself under but the environment you you're in it you're in this bubble and it feels like it's life or death you feel you really do drink the Kool-Aid and that is your only reality at that moment and ⁓ it is just yeah it's like physically and mentally emotionally every level

And you're always being validated. You're always working to be validated. Because you're being judged. You know that you're being filmed and judged. whether or not you stay in the competition, but you know it's like, you feel so vulnerable.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:56:20)

That explains the six months screening because they probably pick people that they thought for three months that wouldn't quit. Right. You didn't ever enter your mind that like this is I keep winning but this is too much. I want to go home. But you made it through.

Tracy Collins (1:56:27)

Mmm.

All the time.

But yeah, but I wouldn't allow myself to do that. ⁓ you know, there were certainly people that were done and they, I think they intentionally didn't cook well.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:56:40)

Thank you.

They were ready to go home. Well, it kind

of explains why when you do watch these reality shows like Survivor or there's so many now I can't even like but you it explains where people break down or lose their temper or act irrationally and to those of us sitting in the normal world just watching his entertainment we're like, my god, they're crazy not realizing no, they're in a Psyop like there and the ready and the film crew actually is

Tracy Collins (1:57:00)

Yeah.

Yep.

Hmm. Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:57:21)

thrilled when that happens because they're like great content, right? So and I think the sleep deprivation is on purpose that like I think that's part of the whole if I had to guess keeping contestants sleep deprived then you're more rational your reasonings off and all of that.

Tracy Collins (1:57:23)

This is

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

and there's such an interesting, like psychological, you're in a bubble that you become your own ⁓ community. And so then you start having hierarchies. You know, you start having, ⁓ yeah, it's really interesting how and you even started having your own language, you know, in jokes language. So from a psychological perspective, it's such a interesting like,

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:57:52)

rights.

Mmm.

Tracy Collins (1:58:09)

It would be, I would have loved to have been able to scan my brain before I went in and scan it afterwards.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:58:13)

⁓

Right. Exactly. So probably that how he said it takes a year, that's probably just deprogramming yourself in a lot of ways and assimilating back into normal society.

Tracy Collins (1:58:21)

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, which then you get

out and I'm now no longer Tracy who's just the mum of three kids. know, I'm people recognizing seeing me and I was after a couple or a few weeks I said, right, I just need to go away. So we went to Bali like within about 48 hours. It was like, right, let's go to Bali. I just need to get away.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:58:46)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:58:46)

Bali

is full of Australians. I don't know what I was thinking. But I was getting stopped in Bali then. Like people were, know, oh, I did have one that I particularly liked because this woman came up to me and she goes, I'm sorry, but are you from home in a way? And I was like, oh my God, that's so awesome. That's like the best compliment ever. But because people were recognizing my face, people also had a sense of familiarity.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:58:49)

You

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (1:59:13)

I stopped what I stopped knowing who I actually knew and didn't know as well then because people would come up with a sense of familiarity and I think, shit have I met you before? don't know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:59:21)

That has to be so weird because you're almost, yeah, you're like, is this somebody that I've met in the past at normal or is this a fan? You had fans, you had an experience, you were a celebrity with fans and to go from being a married mom of three and six months later, you're a celebrity with fans, that's another Psyop.

Tracy Collins (1:59:30)

Yeah, yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah, it's so bizarre. Like I've been in this bubble, come out the bubble and my world is completely different on the outside in many, many ways. And the way the world was responding to you is different. You know, it's...

GenX Adulting Podcast (1:59:50)

Yeah.

Well, so

how did people respond to you on the show? Was it pretty much positive?

Tracy Collins (2:00:02)

Um, yeah, I had a lot of positive, um, but I had a lot of negative and it's always that Teflon Velcro thing, you know, the, you know, I got trolled by some girls. Um, and like my kids also then would come home and they would say, Oh, so and so said this about you. And I'm like, Oh.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:00:10)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:00:24)

I'm like, oh, who are their parents? And they'd tell me, I'd be like, okay, well, good to know. Everybody had their opinion and it is what it is. So yeah, multiple.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:00:27)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's going to be the people

that were that were way thrilled to have an opportunity to judge you that had issues with you before you went on the show. And then now they're like, this is great. Now we can just. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Were you a thick skin then? So as you might be now.

Tracy Collins (2:00:42)

Yes!

yeah, fodder, you know?

No,

God, no, God, no, it's like rejection sensitivity. you know, it would, yeah. And that's when I actually started then, you know, I went and opened up a restaurant because that was the logical thing in my brain to do then. But I also, I was just really like, I couldn't kind of get down to a baseline. So behind the scenes, I could put on a really good show, I was strong, blah, blah, blah. That's kind of like what I was giving off at that. Internally, I was really struggling. And so I started,

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:00:56)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:01:22)

doing yoga, but then I, being me, had to learn how to, I wanted to know on a cellular level. So I was like, I need to learn this. And I was very fortunate to have a teacher who was, ⁓ she had learnt in India. You she studied from the masters. She was very, ⁓ very pure yoga. And that was the best medicine that I could have ever had for my nervous system, for me to give insight. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:01:42)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:01:51)

So I know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:01:53)

Did you become

an instructor? Did you get certified as a yoga instructor? ⁓

Tracy Collins (2:01:56)

Yeah, yeah. So

that was such an amazing kind of ⁓ initiation into how to regulate myself, how the power of the mind, ⁓ breath, body, how it's all related and interrelated. And it gave me some really good tools to get through that. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:02:21)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (2:02:21)

⁓ and take a different perspective rather than just feeling it all. ⁓ So, you know, one of the big things I had in a, when I was meditating this one time is this all kind of came in with these trolls and stuff like that. But I remember going, hang on. So all these people have seen one image of me as in like the video, like the show, edited.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:02:45)

Right.

Tracy Collins (2:02:47)

rightly or wrongly or whatever, they, you know, it was never unfairly edited. But I went, so they've all seen the same image of me, yet this group of people are beautiful and lovely and give me great vibes when they see me, it's all very complimentary. And these people are assholes, you know, sorry.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:03:06)

Right. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:03:08)

And they are using that same image to cast such awful things to me ⁓ or say such awful things about me. And I really had this thing of going, you have to depersonalize this Tracy, because this is not about you. This is about them. And so that was kind of that first real insight into going, they've all seen the same one thing and taken something different.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:03:26)

this.

Yes. It's their projection of themselves. I love

how you frame that though, because I've not heard it explained that way, but I totally agree with what you're saying. But two groups of people seeing the same person and having such different reactions, it's a perfect way to sum it up. It's their problem. Yes. Yeah. That's a great way to sum it up. Yeah. No, it's almost like once the show aired, it wasn't even

Tracy Collins (2:03:48)

Hmm.

Mm. Mm. Yeah. And I've got no control over it. Yeah. Yeah, so I have no control over it.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:04:04)

yours anymore. was now the audiences and however they interpret it and whatever they do with that information. It's really hasn't it's none of your business has nothing to do with you. This is all them. It's their own reflection. They're it back onto you. But it really has nothing to do with you anymore. You did the work. It's out there now. It's now being consumed.

Tracy Collins (2:04:06)

Thanks.

Yeah, I need to let go of that. I need to detach from that. it's hard. Like, I can say that all the way like, yes, so we detach but that was that's hard.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:04:36)

no,

I'm sure. I'm sure I'm sure gave you a taste of what like big celebrities how they have to be detached pretty much every day of their life, I would assume. In order to function, I think we all do at certain level, especially kids, it's probably something you've a gift you've given to your kids that, especially your daughters, right girls take it, I think harder on the chin from other girls being mean. That's a perspective that they can say you can share with them. I know firsthand.

Tracy Collins (2:04:40)

Yeah.

100 % absolutely

you

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:05:05)

Two groups of people saw me do the same thing. Some liked me, some didn't. That's what these girls are doing to you. It's their problem. It has nothing to do with Yeah, or boys, whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:05:11)

Yeah. And I think that it's,

it's a, think it's, yeah, whatever, we're aware of where we're at in life, you know, if you're on social media, like, everybody's got an opinion. Everybody's got an opinion these days. So

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:05:23)

Yeah. yeah.

When I see some of them, they make me laugh because it's just showing me who you are. It's just showing the world who you are. If you're stopping to take the time to write something negative or ugly, that's such a just exposing yourself of who you are to the world. it's almost like I never, we will sometimes laugh about if they get really crazy about something, but we never take it personally because it has nothing to do with us, you know.

Tracy Collins (2:05:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:05:53)

So you said you opened a restaurant. Was it success? How long was it open?

Tracy Collins (2:05:58)

we won an award in our first year for being best regional restaurant in Aselador. So that was pretty awesome. And ⁓ because I did get some flak from, I got flak from a couple of celebrities actually on social media when I was opening up my restaurant saying you've

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:06:04)

Wow. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:06:19)

these contestants that have been on a show and then think they can open a business, know, ⁓ one of them was quite prominent. And I'm reading it going, he didn't name me, but I'm reading it going, ⁓ wow, like he's, and one of them actually said, ⁓ because I just think that I could go and be a hairdresser.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:06:43)

Right. Right. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:06:44)

Yeah, it's like,

just because yeah, I've watched somebody or because I've done something. So I don't think I can just go off and be a hairdresser. I think that's that that was that was their way of going. That's you, Tracy. I'm a hairdresser going and doing this. So who am I? That was in 2015. So was in 2014 MasterChef 2015 opening the restaurant.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:06:53)

They knew, they knew.

Right, so they knew. So what year was that?

So what's

interesting is back then, it's flipped now. Celebrities actually held weight and they could pick on regular people that were attempting, or reality stars that were attempting. We've totally flipped. And now reality rules and real people on social media rule. celebrities are now trying to infiltrate into TikTok and trying to be relatable like regular people are.

Tracy Collins (2:07:15)

⁓ Mm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:07:34)

So it's totally flipped, whereas people aren't

taking celebrities as seriously anymore. Like there's a whole anti-celebrity movement. You think it's that or they just can't be dicks anymore? I think it's both. people will hold them accountable. people like flipped into a more authenticity and real people. Like when people go on social media, they're wanting to watch real life. Well, they'll take a PR hit too though, because people will, the masses will revolt.

Tracy Collins (2:07:47)

Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:08:01)

back and say why are you being such an asshole? Oh absolutely held accountable. know that kind of held accountable. That's the right word. They're not even getting like they're getting out viewed by by regular people in a lot of situations because that whole authenticity trend is has taken over and so in 2015 they would have felt confident doing that. They wouldn't do that now. They wouldn't do that now.

Tracy Collins (2:08:03)

Mm.

Yeah.

No,

⁓ I also like just interesting what you're saying there with that authenticity piece is that when you've got this high profile as well, they have to be you know, it's that cancel culture. So they're having to really navigate this whole thing. When you're coming from ground up, you know, like I can be authentic and I'm building this and I can just be myself. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:08:42)

Yeah.

Yep.

Tracy Collins (2:08:49)

So I

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:08:49)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:08:50)

think that's why I think you guys are resonating as well because you're just authentically yourself having the conversations that you're not waiting, you're not all of that. So your audience already knows who you are as they're joining you. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:08:57)

Yeah. Right.

Yes. Yeah,

it's all real. And if it takes off grade, if it only helps five people, we're just as happy. It's that we're wanting to get, we're cherishing people's life stories, but also to connect other people so they feel seen. They feel validated. They feel understood. They feel not crazy. ⁓ I went through that too. Or, my gosh, that's what I'm going through. It's to help.

Tracy Collins (2:09:13)

Yeah.

Mm.

Mmm

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:09:33)

It's to connect. So the intention, it's the intention. I'm a big believer in if you're doing something with the right intention, it's going to land where it's supposed to be. And that's really all that matters. Now, the intention behind it, you know, if it's if it's for clicks, then that's only going to last so long. You know that you might get that quickly, but that's going to and that didn't help anybody. Right.

Tracy Collins (2:09:34)

Absolutely. That's what I love.

Thank

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I felt that.

Thank

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:09:58)

But you got to do it with the right intention and then there's actual authentic engagement because it's helping people.

Tracy Collins (2:10:06)

Yep. And it means that you're

going to continue to show up because you're not there for the output or the validation or that external that external part. That's that's a that's a bonus when that comes in. But you're showing up. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:10:18)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. for

sure. We're like, this is great because we're excited because this is resonating. So this is like, you know, and we're but yeah, so we don't we don't need the validation. Like we're doing okay in our life. So we're not doing it. We're not doing it for us. Does that make sense? So I think yeah, but I think so when you were doing your restaurant, you could do whatever you wanted. You had the freedom to be authentic because you don't have to worry about anyone thought about you.

Tracy Collins (2:10:22)

Mm.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Mm.

Yeah, sort of. That

sounds great in theory. think I was a bit more. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:10:46)

⁓ That's I'm curious about because that was 10 years ago, 11

years ago-ish. I'm curious if you were in that frame of mind then. I bet you weren't, right? And now you've evolved, I guess.

Tracy Collins (2:11:00)

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, I definitely was still in, I thought that that's what I should do after being in MasterChef. I felt like I should continue that narrative, that journey. I've been given this amazing opportunity. And I was also given the opportunity to have the restaurant there. ⁓ And it was just, it just felt like that's what I, I was, and I guess this is the thing, I was going through a transition of my identity.

And it was really pushed and I really didn't know how to navigate that. There was no handbook on how to navigate all this stuff. So I think, you know, and this is where we were even speaking before about, and what we've sort of even touched on now is like, know, perimenopause is a transition. ⁓ And our kids are growing up, you know, and moving on, that's a transition. ⁓ Our bodies and brains are doing a lot of changes.

and if they think through any transition, when your identity is shifting, ⁓ that was a very challenging time for me going through after MasterChef because I'd never had more opportunities available to me but I just didn't know what to do with them. And I didn't think, and I really wasn't that...

probably savvy and calculated to leverage it to the degree that I should have. And I sometimes look back as well with the social media era, it's never been a very comfortable skin for me ⁓ because I see a lot of these younger generations that are just so good with self-advocating and self-promotion. And that felt like...

And I don't know what it's like for you guys in America, but for me in Australia and generationally ⁓ wasn't taught for us to be self-promoting because you got a big head, know, up yourself, all those things. And then the tall poppy syndrome, which we have in Australia, which is really cruel. ⁓ But those mechanisms, I really understand now how small they keep you, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:13:00)

You get-

Yes,

you self-sabotage, but it's because I think it's generational because it was how we were raised too. At least as a woman, I can say don't get too big for your britches. That whole self-promotion thing, it's interesting you bring that up because that doesn't come naturally at all to me either. But the younger generation, they don't give it a second thought, but we raise them. And so we raise them to not even think twice about.

Tracy Collins (2:13:30)

Mm.

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:13:40)

course you should be proud of yourself. Go out there and do it. Yeah, go out and use your voice. You're amazing. But no one, everyone told us they should just they were like, No, you're not that great. Don't think you're so great. And don't think who you are and all that stuff. So that makes sense that the self promoting would feel uncomfortable to you. can totally relate to that. 100 I don't know if you can though, because you were he was in sports and a boy and he was really celebrated even in his town.

Tracy Collins (2:13:42)

You?

Yes, yes, yes.

Mmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:14:09)

So I don't know. No, think two things come to mind. Yeah. No, I, I enjoyed sports as a young kid until I got too much attention and started showing up in the paper and people start criticizing your performance, whether it's good or bad. And then we didn't learn how to deal with the haters. You you weren't taught. you could be doing well and then you have, a bad game or whatever. And then you kind of get shit on. Yeah. But

Tracy Collins (2:14:16)

Mm.

Mmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:14:39)

What's interesting is two things though from this. ⁓ We're teaching our kids, not just we, but all of us have taught our kids to ignore the haters. They're just fighting at your ankles or whatever. But the, we've had a guest on from Australia and another from Scotland and we've seen global commentary. ⁓ What you're describing is a universal thing for our generation and especially women. You're too big for your britches.

Tracy Collins (2:14:48)

Mm.

Mmm. Mmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:15:09)

So it's this shared collective experience of our generation. What you're describing, she resonates for her 100%. And I wonder how much of it's misogyny too, just, you know, and the patriarchy and all that crap. Because how much did GenX boys, you know, were there boy moms in our generation like there are now, but we just didn't have a name for it? Like, the boys built up? I don't know. 100%. I Yeah, you were. Yeah, so...

Tracy Collins (2:15:13)

Mm.

Yeah.

people.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:15:37)

Like was it just us girls that were mainly shushed and like don't be so, you know.

Tracy Collins (2:15:42)

Yeah, but do

you know what I the worst ones, I think is the women are the worst of the women. You know, we are the women were the most vicious ones. They were the ones that hunted me and like

with the, you know, the bullying, you know, they even went to finding out my business and then got my business email to like send me, you know, hateful stuff. When I went through school, was the girls were the worst. And I feel like it's the, it's so sad that we weren't there to lift each other up because it was, think, is this competitive grappling ⁓ as well. ⁓

But I think boys were definitely, there was very much a gender difference of the rules of engagement. ⁓ But yeah, I just, feel like they're, that's why I think ⁓ I've made a very conscious decision to, you know, champion other women. ⁓ I really want to champion other women, especially when they're doing well. And I've had friends, ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:16:48)

Yeah.

Will we?

Tracy Collins (2:16:55)

you know, especially over the last few years while I've been studying, a very close friend of mine, who is now one of the judges on MasterChef, she's just been soaring. But that is not once, every time she has had an opportunity or a success, that has not once made me feel jealous, because I'm like, my time will come. That's fine. And I think, you know,

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:17:17)

Right.

Tracy Collins (2:17:20)

but championing other women, we need to really foster that way more. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:17:26)

100%. And

we were raised to compete with each other for everything, job, men, everything. We were not raised, we didn't even know the concept of girlhood. It was just competition with each other. Who's prettier, who's skinnier, that's huge. ⁓ You know, that's like number one action, put that at the top. Who's skinniest, and then boys, competing for boys. And I honestly think Gen X women have found their girlhood midlife. Like I think...

Tracy Collins (2:17:29)

Yeah.

you

with.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:17:53)

I think

now, I think we've realized like the veils come off and we're like, you guys, we got to support each other here and not just each other, but let's also build up the ones coming behind us. you know, it's like, and I always say like, you think Gen X women or girls were tough when we were competing with each other, you better be scared when we unite.

Tracy Collins (2:18:00)

Hmm.

⁓ Absolutely.

⁓ absolutely. I love that. And that is so true. I

think the strength in the relationships that I've had over the last, you know, growing, especially over the last 10 years, those, you know, they're becoming a lot more solid. They're very solidified and the trust is very deep. ⁓ And also my ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:18:32)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:18:39)

Like, and even I had a friend who was, yeah, not well recently, she collapsed and there was some inappropriate people kind of ogling, watching a situation where she'd passed out. And, you know, I just went in like defense, like, oi, men.

you've a vulnerable woman lying here, just you don't need to be standing here, move. They were offended. I didn't care. I'm like, I just went into that kind of defensive mode and I'll stand up for my, you know, my...

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:19:04)

Yeah? ⁓

And we were raised

like that. And now if I see like guys my age, obviously annoying a girl my daughter's age, I'll say something. I like, and in the past we were used to not confronting men, but I have no problem now. I have no problem now confronting men on their behavior and holding them accountable. Do you think this is a universal thing or do you two have reached some level of enlightenment and intolerance? Well, I know the younger

Tracy Collins (2:19:20)

Hmm.

⁓ Yeah.

I like

the idea that I'm enlightened.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:19:43)

We're enlightened for sure no, but I know what you're saying The younger women they call men out on shit constantly that's like part of the younger women's Gen Z women Have no problem like they'll say it They'll be like because I've seen on social media where they film a guy like your age trying to talk to them at a bar And they're like go away leave us alone

Tracy Collins (2:19:48)

Thank you.

Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:20:06)

And he won't. they're like, why won't you leave? You're as old as my dad. Like they have no problem. And so I think the young, we've given that to them, I think the voice, but I think. But do you feel, guess, a more refined question? probably, it sounds like you have a girlhood, a group of women that you're friends with, you trust, do too. But is it a largely collective thing for your generation or is there, there's gotta still be women that are.

Tracy Collins (2:20:11)

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:20:34)

doing anti-women things. Yeah, ⁓ for sure, they're still mean girls. They're still mean girls in our generation, for sure. That haven't evolved, yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:20:40)

yeah, absolutely, ⁓ 100%.

Yeah, and they're still playing childhood games and stuff like that. And you know, I know this is kind of off topic of, know, where we kind of framing where we were talking with the ADHD and stuff, but you know, it's thinking about this younger generation and with the empowerment of the women. Equally, it's interesting and challenging for me to bring up my boys as men intentionally.

because their landscape is very different. you know, for, you know, both my boys are ⁓ heterosexual ⁓ and they're, you know, they've articulated to me what kind of life they want. So then to support them to be the masculine men that they want to be with emotional intelligence. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:21:30)

Yeah.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (2:21:37)

is a really interesting balance in this landscape ⁓ when there's lots of different narratives and layers being told to them externally. But it really just, I keep trying to focus on what we're doing, taking that out ⁓ and just really for them to keep connecting and aligning with others with their values. ⁓ Because yeah, they do want to be seen as masculine men.

yet they do want to have that emotional capability and capacity. And I'm loving seeing them critically think about what they're seeing in the world. ⁓ And so I'm going to be interested to see because I think it is going to be a hard, I think there's a lot of challenges for young men out there equally now because...

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:22:27)

Yeah, I

agree. I agree. have two boys as well. One's 29 and one's 16. And I can tell you I'm way more evolved parenting my 16-year-old boy than I. I wish I could have done some of the things for my 29-year-old, but I wasn't there. I just didn't know. And he's great. He's amazing. He's an amazing young man and has the emotional intelligence and all those things. So we must have done something right. But at least with our.

Tracy Collins (2:22:45)

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:22:56)

youngest i am even extra focused on allowing not allowing that he also is a masculine boy ⁓ coupling that with emotional intelligence giving him that space to express his mental health ⁓ his feelings his perspective on life in that moment he feels safe to share those things and it's not ⁓

Tracy Collins (2:23:19)

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:23:24)

affecting or not a reflection of how masculine he is, you know, and so, and I think we're doing better with him because we just, the world changed. What I was going to say earlier, the world changed in just 13 year difference. Yes. Man, what a difference. Crazy. Yeah. Forces us to evolve and force, right. I think that's, that's good. It's healthy, but it's forcing all of us to continue to evolve.

Tracy Collins (2:23:28)

Mmm.

⁓ yeah, it would have been huge, huge.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:23:54)

You know, I think when we were younger, we probably thought once I hit this age, I'm going to chill. I'm about to my parents did. When do we chill? That's not happening. Well, Gen X doesn't happen. It's crazy. I always say we're redefining aging. we there's no end here. We're just going to keep tackling new tackling new. How long was your restaurant open?

Tracy Collins (2:24:02)

No, no.

It's still open now. So I sold out in about 2018, I think, ⁓ to my business partners and they're still very successful. The business is running really well and I've got a great relationship with them. They're amazing people. ⁓ Harvest Kitchen, ⁓ in the Borassa here. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:24:35)

What's name of the restaurant?

Harvest Kitchen and where's it located? Okay, Harvest Kitchen,

Tracy Collins (2:24:43)

Yep,

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:24:43)

okay.

Tracy Collins (2:24:44)

go see them. They are doing wonderful things still. yeah, absolutely. Yes, at the Jacob Creek, which is a visitor centre now, which is one of the most famous wine brands in Australia. So they're there. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:24:48)

Okay, that's lovely.

okay. So that's really cool. So did you

work within with the restaurant then from the time it was open until 2018?

Tracy Collins (2:25:07)

Yes,

I set up a kitchen and everything. luckily, I've always been at approach business from a very systematic thing. And it's doesn't matter what you're doing, as long as you've just got really good systems. ⁓ And so yeah, that was very, ⁓ kind of, I think that's why it was hard for people from the outside going hairdresser, chef, you know, now that I'm

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:25:18)

Mm.

Tracy Collins (2:25:31)

moved onto my studies and in cognitive neuroscience and they just say how do those things connect? Internally they all make sense and connect but from what I can understand from the outside it doesn't make much logical sense.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:25:42)

Right. But like you said, you have a system that maybe you set up and use for your salons. You just transfer that into the restaurant, right? The same concept.

Tracy Collins (2:25:51)

Yeah,

yeah, any good business should have systems, you know, like, you know, staff systems, you know, even from hairdressing, it's there's systems of, you know, what you do when you open up in the morning, close down, like everything's micro systems, you know, client engagement, bookings, da da da. And then you get into restaurant and it's a bit more complex, but setting, I'd never set up a kitchen before like, ⁓ but

Also, it makes sense now when I look back going my ADHD was my superpower through all that. If I didn't have ADHD, I probably wouldn't have been able do all that stuff. And I wouldn't have impulsively just gone, yeah, you know, take on something I've got no idea about. But I've got some for some reason some insane belief that I'll be able to do it, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:26:31)

Yes.

That's

awesome though. So then in 2018, what did you do after you sold?

Tracy Collins (2:26:44)

⁓ So my daughter had ⁓ and still has chronic endometriosis. So she was really struggling with that at the time. And it was one of those sliding door moments. I actually had a book deal and a TV deal, TV series deal with food on the right there, ⁓ like contracts and everything. ⁓ And, but I had a sliding door moment where it was like my daughter needed me

She was in a really bad physical mental place. It was that, but I couldn't do, and we're about to open up our second restaurant, which was Amber ⁓ Pizza restaurant. And so I had like the, you know, the restaurants, I had the book TV deals and I was like, I can't do it all.

And I did one of those, I think this is how I quite often will make decisions, I do a deathbed moment. So I'm lying on my deathbed and I'm going to look back and am I going to be glad that I gave my attention to my daughter or that I went with the shiny, you know, all the other parts? And I made the decision to give...

my attention to my daughter so I sold the restaurant and I turned down the book deal and the TV deal and I just focused on her and that was the best investment that I've ever done in my life. So to get her through that... ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:28:02)

Wow, that's amazing.

Tracy Collins (2:28:09)

rewards for that for rest of my life. And I figured as well if those opportunities, if that was meant to be my path, that opportunity will present itself at some stage in the future if it's meant to be. And that's okay. You know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:28:23)

I mean, that decision makes complete sense to me. I also feel like I would have made that decision too. I'm a big believer in your children are your legacy. So when you're gone, that's what will mirror who you were. And so the decisions you make with your children is truly what you're leaving behind. I mean, the restaurant's great and a book is wonderful and a TV series is great. If your children are all messed up, what does that say about you? You know what I mean?

Tracy Collins (2:28:26)

Mm.

Mm.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yes.

Hey!

Yeah, absolutely.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:28:52)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:28:52)

you know, I only listened, I was actually listening to a podcast recently where ⁓ it was talking about some of our main drivers in life and that need for significance. And it was quite interesting that I was still chasing that in some way.

through that decision, but my significance was very different in the way it was like it wasn't the significance of getting that validation externally, it was the significance of my legacy and that relationship. Yeah, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:29:19)

Yes. Yes.

Interesting. Yeah, it wasn't the

significance for notoriety, but it was the significance in your investment as a mother. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:29:28)

It was deeper. Yeah, it was much

deeper. yeah, ⁓ it was a good decision. It was good decision.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:29:37)

So then after you spent that time with her, is that when you started your studies?

Tracy Collins (2:29:44)

Yeah, I was studying at university through that and also just finishing up the yoga. So yoga teaching, I'd also done just prior to that, ⁓ diploma in positive psychology and wellbeing, which is really what put me over that threshold to try and go to university. But yeah, started studying at university and just loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it. And

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:29:48)

Okay.

What motivated

you to want to do that? After everything you've done, what motivated you to want to go to university and study?

Tracy Collins (2:30:17)

⁓

Because I think there was always that itch that I wouldn't need to scratch in terms of going, I know I'm smart, but I yet don't have the evidence to support that. But after all those ⁓ stresses, especially with MasterChef, really starting to look at these psychological kind of phenomenas that happened through it, ⁓ I just wanted to also, think,

I was so amazed at the power of our brain, the neuroplasticity, but just understanding like, yeah, what's influencing what? I had so many questions, I think, and I thought that studying would definitely have the answers. And I love how around about that time, a lot of information was coming in about that brain and body connection.

you know, how it's influencing, you know, our gut is influencing our brain, you know, these interconnected relationships. And after studying yoga, it's quite fascinating that

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:31:12)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (2:31:24)

going in and studying the cognitive neuroscience, and when they would come out with some big finding, it's like, that's so funny, because if you told that to a yogic that, oh, hey, your breath, you know, there's a study showing that when you, you know, breathe diaphragmatically, and it can help change these brainwaves, which helps this and that, if you told a yogi that, that'd be like, 2000 years ago, they'd be like, yeah, duh, like, this is what we've been doing, like, for a really long time, science has actually just caught up now, you know?

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:31:47)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes,

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:31:54)

they just didn't have the evidence in front of them to show in a research paper. So everything that I've learned in neuroscience, ⁓ nothing has been contradictory to what I've learned in yoga. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:31:58)

Right.

That's so interesting.

That is so interesting. So you jump into studying neuroscience and ⁓ psychology, right? Did you do both of those?

Tracy Collins (2:32:18)

Yeah, so cognitive neuroscience

is a branch in psychology. So it's kind of neuroscience and psychology. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:32:29)

Was there a particular area that you were focusing on at the time within that?

Tracy Collins (2:32:35)

In the

undergraduate, it does stay broad because you're learning very much about the biology in the brain. But when we had assignments that we could research, that's when I started doing that PTSD. We were looking at different states of awareness and so we wanted to look at dissociation with PTSD and that's when a few of those things started kind of...

ticking ⁓ and questions started and ⁓ yeah, just making sense of my experience, which I think is wonderful with psychology.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:33:14)

Is that why you focused on that? it because you were curious about your own experience and so you decided to go into that area?

Tracy Collins (2:33:23)

Yeah, I think I was definitely curious about my own experience and ⁓ understanding the why, like why would somebody behave that way? You know, why would, you know, how much was in his control, how much was out of his control? It gave me a lot more compassion ⁓ for his experience. ⁓ But it also helped me parent with intentionality, you know, it ⁓

what did, how did, what I wanted to be intentional in my parenting. ⁓ So I think that everything that I learned, I was applying it in real world, which was, I was very privileged as well to be out of study, you know. ⁓ So yeah, the study was, yeah, definitely a lot of about understanding my experiences, but also how can I help others as well, you know. ⁓

So yeah, when I finished my undergraduate, so in my honours, I actually did dementia. My thesis was on dementia. And that's been a massive eye opener, especially for our age bracket, what we're doing, our lifestyle changes, all of those things. ⁓ So very much focused on that sense of wellbeing. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:34:46)

What are, did you focus on preventing dementia?

Tracy Collins (2:34:51)

Yeah, so what are your risk factors? And how what can what's what are the modifiable lifestyle? ⁓ What is the modifiable in your lifestyle to moderate those risk factors? So there's risk factors that we can't really by our age, we can't help if we've had low education, low education is a risk factor.

So if you only finished, so for some of our parents and the generations before us, they may have only had kind of like year eight, year nine high school. ⁓ That's a risk factor to dementia. Air pollution has actually come up as a new one. ⁓ So if you've had exposure to that, if you're in an air pollution now, that's a big one. are females are more likely, twice as likely than men to have ⁓

dementia, you can't. That's really interesting but if you tie it into the menopause thing I'm curious to see where this information will come out more why women they to a large degree the there's one hypothesis is that women live longer so that risk factor increases. So

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:35:48)

Bye.

Tracy Collins (2:36:12)

But I feel like if you're looking at, and this is where I think there's some preliminary kind of studies, when you're looking at the changes in gray and white matter in brain, in the female brain when we're going through menopause, is that it is affecting our hippocampus and our frontal lobe. Now the hippocampus is where our memory is stored. And so you'll see these deficits and if you talk to anybody who's perimenopausal especially and in menopause,

they will talk about challenges with brain, like with memory and just sometimes feeling like everything's just that bit harder. You also see changes, not only in gray matter where there's an atrophy, like a shrinking and a lessening, but you do see some changes in white matter. that's why it's particularly hard through menopause, but it gets easier afterwards because you do see from what the research is that you'll get a little bit of a rebound back.

⁓ But there are still changes that happen in perimenopause, a menopause that I feel like it's not necessarily, I think that there's not enough evidence to support it fully, but it's, think that, know, they are, if you're looking at a dementia brain and perimenopause, there is just some brain changes that that neuronal loss or that changes, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:37:36)

some

overlap.

Tracy Collins (2:37:37)

There's some overlap. There's just not enough evidence. There's hypotheses at this stage. But I don't think there's heaps of evidence.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:37:44)

Have they

they asked have there been any studies on how HRT may be helping in that area or helping prevent dementia?

Tracy Collins (2:37:51)

Yes. Yeah,

and that's maybe why the findings are coming out sometimes in kind, like because there's so many factors if somebody's had hormonal replacement, non-hormone replacement.

when did they start hormone replacement? So there's a lot of positive stuff coming out about hormone replacement. what, because there was a study done back in, I think it was the eighties or the nineties, massive one. And it influenced a lot of our mother's ⁓ perceptions on what HRT did. So there was actually the way that they framed the, and did their analysis of the information, essentially said that if

you take HRT, you're going to be increased risk of breast cancer and all these other cancers, they've actually found the majority of that information from that study to they've kind of debunked it. And some of them have actually looked at their methodologies of how they use that evidence kind of a bit incorrectly. So yeah, that's that's one part. So

I feel like lot of our, if they're going to be testing what's happening, there's a lot of people that just didn't take HRT. I even think that for our generation now as well, there are a lot of women that are still resistant because of maybe their mother's perception.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:39:17)

Absolutely. I think it's really sad that our mothers were not given that opportunity of HRT and most of it stems to the study. I know what you're talking about. And I think there are a lot of Gen X women, like you just said, that are hesitant or scared to try because of what they've been told or what they think and also just haven't been educated, haven't been updated on the new information.

Tracy Collins (2:39:27)

Mmm. Mmm.

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:39:42)

Most doctors still aren't talking about it with women. It's not a normal thing. It should be a normal thing when you reach a certain age to start talking about perimenopause, start talking about symptoms, signs, look out for this, look out for that. This is when we should start doing blood work to get a baseline and then do it annually so we know when maybe we should throw in some HRT. We should be talking about that like we do pap smears, like we do mammograms. Like it should be as common as that. And that's the only way.

Tracy Collins (2:39:51)

you

Absolutely.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:40:11)

there's gonna be a real change in this. And the fact that I think they're finding estrogen helps prevent dementia, right? Isn't that the main hormone?

Tracy Collins (2:40:14)

Thank

It's very protective.

very protective. ⁓ Yeah, it's a and I think that the reason that we're so deficit in this menopause discussion is because it just hasn't been researched enough. Like it really just has been, it just wasn't recognized as an area that needed research. So we're really coming in quite strong now, which is fantastic.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:40:24)

Right.

Tracy Collins (2:40:48)

but we're still playing a catch-up game. And I just feel like we're the kind of the early adopters of this, you know, we're that first generation. So I feel like our daughters will really reap the benefits of the conversations that we're having, but the research that is out there and that awareness. So I think this is going to be a very emerging field still. I still think that even though we're having discussions, we really are just in its infancy.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:41:15)

We are and we are the pioneers and it's those of us that are using our voice. But think about the thousands, the hundreds of thousands that aren't or don't know like millions, millions. may feel like sometimes like I. Pretty much, yeah, but you see it like I'll see it on social media or you'll see it here and there, but that's still such a small percentage that's even talking about this. Like it's just now cracking some mainstream media a little bit.

Tracy Collins (2:41:17)

Yeah.

Thank you.

Half the population.

Yeah.

Yeah and I feel like that women as well our barrier is there's a there's a few mechanisms historically but when we're going to the GPs they're still not I don't think probably a lot of them and this is so this is not

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:41:45)

You know.

Tracy Collins (2:42:00)

everybody because there are some amazing GPs that are really on top of this. But there are some GPs that they haven't quite got the tools yet for this because the information is just so new. And so their screening is based on some very old, if you're not getting hot flashes, you're fine. You know, so the symptoms don't have to be that, you know, the symptoms can be like you're just a really wafer through the window of tolerance, heightened anxiety.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:42:10)

Yeah.

Right.

It's crazy because now...

Tracy Collins (2:42:29)

having trouble with your memory, your working memory, maybe feeling like you're going a bit of crazy, you know. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:42:37)

Edginess like like well that goes with the tolerance, right? Well, let's see. There's yeah. yeah. He's going to start a weight gain weight. Get off my notepad. Explain weight gain, especially around your belly. That that's one of the first signs of peri-menopause. I think at least that was for me is all of sudden I put on 20 pounds and I hadn't changed anything. And I was like, now I did have thyroid disease, but I started medication. I started treating that and it still wasn't.

Tracy Collins (2:42:41)

Are you?

Thanks you friends.

Yeah? Yeah.

⁓ to this room.

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:43:05)

Or maybe in the past if I'd gained some weight, I'm like, well, I'll just go carb free for like three months and I'll drop it off. And that wasn't fixing it. So it's like.

Tracy Collins (2:43:10)

and

No, and we're so busy,

I think spinning the wheels of trying to change the diet or this, like we're looking for all these other fixes when, and there may be a bit of denial in there. Because, you know, going on to hormones and actually looking down that perimenopause, there's, again, you're having to confront that I'm no longer in that childbearing.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:43:28)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:43:41)

you know, there is this, I think there is a bit of a grief that occurs or there's a, and there's a shift, you know, I am transitioning into another stage and I think it is kind of a bit hard to accept, know, especially if you're going through quite early, but a lot of people are going, have, she's showing symptoms way earlier that we're just like, really not.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:43:59)

Right.

Well, no,

I think it can hit from what I've researched as early as 37, 38 perimenopause symptoms can hit. And you may not even, I know I started in my early 40s, but I didn't know what, I suffered through my 40s. I was in perimenopause, I didn't know.

Tracy Collins (2:44:09)

Yeah.

⁓

And it doesn't feel very sexy. it makes you feel, I think it feels like an attack on your femininity in some ways. Like that's how I felt anyway. Like ⁓ I just, I was kind of pushing it away. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:44:22)

No.

Yeah.

Yeah. Now,

I think with the narrative changing and being amplified by Gen X women especially, ⁓ will help normalize the experience and be life-changing for women. Not just those of us that are going through right now, but really for the millennials that are next. A lot of them are already going through it. I may not even know.

Tracy Collins (2:44:48)

Thank

Mm.

And being aware of this to help our relationships as well, you know, with our partners, I think is really critical. ⁓ Because they again, seeing experiencing it all. ⁓ But yeah, it's in and having been able to have those conversations, because it doesn't feel like a very nice conversation to have like, hey, can we talk about my perimenopause? Like, I think we're afraid of how our partners will see us, you know, are we

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:45:21)

Right. No, I think that

Tracy Collins (2:45:27)

less desirable or you know all those things I feel like this

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:45:31)

Well, have to get past

that. Well, what the hell is that? Well, and I think that that has to be changed too. Like, yeah, we might have a hormone patch on, but that shouldn't be something to be ashamed of. You know what I mean?

Tracy Collins (2:45:36)

Mm.

No, but

I think though for me, ⁓ my experience, I had all these ⁓ internalised thoughts that I thought were real, but then when I've had conversations with men, I've been so, ⁓ I think in awe of...

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:45:55)

Right.

Tracy Collins (2:46:06)

their capacity. Like I think that sometimes we've projected that they don't have the capacity to want to these conversations or, or whatever. And I found that men have been much more open and engaged in these conversations than I had given them credit for. And I've been quite taken aback by that. I think men want to know the information that it helps them and it's

made it much deeper, I think, than what I had originally. So I now know that we're having sons.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:46:35)

I

think that's a generational thing for you, for women your age to think that we either don't have the capacity to understand or the interest or the shame that you may feel is not something that we're necessarily putting on you. You bring it, but we don't necessarily totally resonate. It's like, why are you embarrassed about that? That's part of your biology.

Tracy Collins (2:46:47)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Yeah, and if a man truly

loves a woman, he's going to accept that. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you then.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:47:06)

100%. But I think that's society. That's society. But

I think it's women's society. It's more maybe. Because, because is it women who make us feel that we're not as desirable for going through peri-menopause or menopause? Like, is it women that have fed that, kept that narrative alive? You know, like

Tracy Collins (2:47:11)

Mm.

Yes.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:47:28)

Like if we're not if we're not a childbearing age, we're not sexy anymore. We're getting old or we're sure All that stuff. I bet it's some woman your age Doing that to other women your age. I don't know. That's what you guys have always done to each other I don't know because the boomer women just were stoic and got through it and it you didn't talk about it They didn't if you ask a boomer women. They're like I didn't feel anything. I it was fine

Tracy Collins (2:47:44)

Yes.

Yeah,

no, no, they just dug down in the trenches and whatever, you but you you think about our generation and they're, you know, when we're about that real competitiveness between females and a lot of that is, you know, about male attention, you know, and there's a lot of ⁓ social scaffolding, you know, and when you look at ⁓ like social psychology, there is this evolutionary thing that we're essentially doing to hold on to ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:48:04)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:48:20)

you know, our life. ⁓ And these are all like the social programmings that we've got ⁓ in there. you youth, hold on to youth, that's desirable. And we've, and also our, ⁓ you think about, you know, when we're growing up, that WAIF thing, the way we looked was such a huge part of who we were.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:48:27)

And youth, youth is unfed that women especially need to hold on to their youth. And that's desirable.

Tracy Collins (2:48:50)

You know, that was, and we all got stuck into, like I'm speaking very broadly saying we all, but ⁓ for many of us, yeah, was, ⁓ you know, why do you think the, you know, we spend all our money on clothes and ⁓ why has the, ⁓ you know, the industry where we're getting Botox and fillers and, you know, ⁓ cosmetic surgery, you know, that they fed us this kind of, ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:49:17)

Yes.

Tracy Collins (2:49:18)

narrative and we've all really been on on that. ⁓ And so we get to this age now and I guess that if we're accepting of things I guess that's why we can champion each other you know how we're we're strengthening ⁓ our relationships but we also have to shift our perspective on the capacity of the men's ability to have these conversations and take this on board because I feel like that was my projection. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:49:30)

Yes.

Right. Well, what's interesting,

we've seen commentary from boomer women or silent generation women who criticize some of these conversations between, you might get comments if we were to post the short on something like this, where a boomer woman might come in and say, you, Xers, you think you're the first to deal with this. We've been dealing with it it was fine. wasn't a problem. But it's not, it's not, we're not, we know we're not the first, but we're the first to talk about it.

Tracy Collins (2:49:53)

Mm.

Thank

Yes.

is.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:50:12)

But they don't want the first to bring voice to it. they don't honor that. And now they're like, we've had people say, ⁓ some things should just say private. You know, it's that old, that old mentality. And it's like, no, you're, deal with Gen X women. We're not listening to you.

Tracy Collins (2:50:22)

and

Yeah, yeah. Well, this is, know,

and 100 % that point, you know, I grew up with that. And when you ever screw up with that, you don't air your dirty laundry in public. You know, so me talking to you guys is actually the first time I've publicly spoken about my childhood experience, because until my father, especially when my father was alive, I, you know, it felt, I didn't feel I could do that. And since his past, you know, I've lost the processing, but ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:50:37)

Yes.

Mm. Wow.

Tracy Collins (2:50:57)

Yeah, there was definitely that feeling that I was doing that but I don't feel that anymore because it is that if this story helps somebody else, if they could see themselves in some of this conversation, even if it's a little bit, and it makes them feel connected. ⁓

and less isolated in their own experience, like is exactly what you're talking about, that you don't care if it's hitting everybody, but if somebody can feel a little bit less isolated or a bit more connected or have a better understanding about their experience and not personalise it so much, ⁓ that's definitely worth it. that's worth it.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:51:34)

Yeah, and it's part of your legacy. As a ⁓ woman too, as women

it's something we can leave behind and say, here, it wasn't left for us but we're going to make sure and leave it for you. So that's kind of how I look into it. So how long did you study at university?

Tracy Collins (2:51:47)

Yeah.

So part-time, ⁓ eight years, then I started doing my PhD, which was very much studying my own trauma, ultimately, I was doing that, turning 50, my youngest was finishing ⁓ high school, ⁓ still going through the marriage separation parts, there's parts of that, and it's...

very interesting how this whole everything kind of collapsed you know last year with perimenopause undiagnosed ADHD my father had just passed a few months before that and he had motor neuron disease and it's coming back to what so motor neuron you call it something different ALS I think you call it

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:52:40)

What is that? Yeah, what is that? Do we call Lou Gehrig's

disease?

Tracy Collins (2:52:48)

Yes, I think it's going, is that ayahuasca? Yes, yeah. So being in the military is actually a risk factor for that, interestingly enough. Yeah, I think so. I think so. And because they're not 100 % sure why. But.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:52:50)

Yes. That's a tough one. Yes.

That is interesting. From the trauma, do you think?

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (2:53:12)

What from how we originally connected Nicole was when you had that episode when you were talking about ⁓ people in our generation looking after ailing parents that may be the source of our trauma and that just hit me, you know, so and yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:53:27)

Yes.

I

remember that it's when you had trauma from a parent that you now had to care for. And it reintroduced all the trauma back. That's, is that the one you were talking about? Yeah. Okay.

Tracy Collins (2:53:37)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And then studying in a PhD level, it's like, hey, let's also study my trauma. ⁓ But I think that that was the first time I'd heard somebody having that conversation. And I was like, you know, thank you. That made me just, for me, less isolated.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:53:49)

Yeah.

That makes me so happy. Yeah, you made our year. Yeah, no, that makes me so happy. All right. No, that's cool. Thank you for sharing that. Because I think that's so true of so many Gen Xers that are going through that where they're either caring for or living with or having to just even have weekly interactions with because their ⁓ parent has now gotten to that age where you have to at least check on them.

Tracy Collins (2:54:13)

Hahaha!

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:54:37)

And whether it was intentional or not, they were the source of your childhood trauma. And Gen X has grinded through their childhood and adulthood and are just now stopping and probably haven't dealt with that trauma. And now they're back with that person. And it's...

Tracy Collins (2:54:42)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and you

add a healthy dose of perimenopause in there. And when your window of tolerance is already stretched so finely and if you're completely unaware of all these things because you're just getting through, ⁓ think, yeah, the fallout at the other side of it is it can be very hard and ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:54:58)

Yes, yes.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (2:55:22)

But having that awareness now of all these things that are kind of stacking against us allows, think, us to maybe have a bit more self-compassion for ourselves and for our relationships. yeah, definitely having that insight because I don't think that compassion was something necessarily inherently taught to us growing up either.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:55:32)

Absolutely.

No. So I'm curious then when you experienced that, I believe a lot of times I have a bachelor of science in psychology from years and years ago. And it's almost one of those things where I don't know if I chose it as much as it chose me. Right. There was there were breadcrumbs that I followed and eventually that's where I was. I'm willing to bet you probably have a component of that in your studies.

Tracy Collins (2:55:57)

Mm.

Mm.

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:56:15)

It's not like you sat back and said, I want to learn more psychology because it's interesting, but it probably kind of sucked you in a little bit, right? on the, you'd mentioned that you're, you were going through this, taking care of your father, reintroduced some of the old trauma, but then you're studying it at the same time of, at a PhD level. did, how did all that work out? What did you learn and how did you apply that?

Tracy Collins (2:56:22)

Yeah.

Yeah, so basically

my father passed and then I started the PhD. So it was this kind of where one finished the other began and it just I hadn't really gotten over the stress of and process fully his passing and then because you life's just you just got to get on with it like you know

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:57:09)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:57:10)

So then I start the PhD and, ⁓ you know, had no idea that all these other mechanisms of, ⁓ you know, the perimenopause are really at play. But then like my body started getting a lot of pain breaking down. I was struggling more and more to apply to my PhD because my ADHD was peaking and...

So yeah, basically, then I'm also yeah, keeps some grinding through studying. And it's just I think everything just got a little bit too much because I was, I had not given myself enough space, you know, you know, just keep going, early grind, push through, push through, push through. And eventually it was, ⁓ you know, it was my ex husband who said, he kept saying, you need to address the

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:57:51)

Just moving. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:58:05)

the perimenopause thing. He actually went and researched and found a company that specializes in it, sent me all the links for it. He basically stopped one step shy of booking me in. But that process was great. And so I'm very grateful that he pushed me on that. So it took somebody external because I have a propensity to just

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:58:22)

amazing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (2:58:34)

Keep going. You know, just keep pushing. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:58:38)

Yeah, well, and

I mean, and I think that's very Gen X, but also you had undiagnosed ADHD still, right, at that time?

Tracy Collins (2:58:44)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And ⁓ so it was only through that process, then getting medicated and having such significant changes in the way I'm operating my capacity. So having estrogen, then having ADHD and it was like, my God, my brain's online again. and in a way that I actually hadn't ever experienced before. ⁓ So

then kind of I guess going my god I'm 50 life didn't have to be this hard so you kind of look back over your landscape of like the you know the the life experiences and go

that could have all been a little bit easier. So you process that. And that's when I did reflectively go, I'm actually studying my trauma. And we actually know from the research that when you go into therapy, actually talking about your trauma only re-traumatizes you. You don't actually need to speak about the trauma in order to heal. You can, but inherently it is re-traumatizing going through it.

GenX Adulting Podcast (2:59:48)

Right.

Wait, wait, hold on. Say

that again so you don't have to speak about the trauma to heal. Is that what you just said?

Tracy Collins (2:59:59)

Not necessarily. For some people rehashing and breaking down and going through the actual mechanisms. if somebody was having a really hard time, I don't have to know the context of their trauma to know they're going through pain. Them ⁓ articulating.

They know that everybody knows their trauma. Them articulating it or going rehashing through it isn't necessarily what they need to do in terms of therapy. the other components, maybe the schemas around it, the beliefs. yeah, the schemas around it. Yeah, she's here. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:00:34)

There's the cut.

You can see the little ears. What

startled me in what you said is I totally agree, but it flips the whole psychotherapy approach, the whole Jungian, the Freudian, the modern concept of going to therapy and talking about your problems and repressed memories or whatever, or, you know, what happened in childhood and start putting it together. It's re-traumatizing.

Tracy Collins (3:01:04)

Well,

yeah, it is re-traumatizing. In saying that, like, internal family systems, which is a therapeutic approach and amazing, ⁓ that can be very valuable ⁓ to go back. But really what it's doing is it's not about always identifying and talking about the trauma. It's about when an experience maybe happened that a belief system was set.

You know, so if that traumatic experience happened, you don't have to talk about the details of this person did that, that's blah, blah, blah. It's about at that time, so say it was eight year old ⁓ Nicole that something happened to. What was she feeling? What belief did she have to have in order to cope? What was set in her at that moment? So you're talking more about those components.

based on the experience and the events, you don't have to outline every single detail.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:02:05)

You don't have to relive it.

Yeah, it's more like

rewiring the subconscious. It sounds like it's like that belief system was settled because whatever this neglectful thing happened or abusive thing happened. So these are the beliefs that settled into my subconscious. So now we're going to rewire that subconscious and change that. And that's where that I always say it wrong that eat the tapping our ⁓ EMDR, where you go back and you kind of rewire

Tracy Collins (3:02:23)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah, EMDR.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:02:39)

trauma, right? What happened to you? Your brain?

Tracy Collins (3:02:40)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is why a lot of people will have those reactions or explosive reaction because they're still stuck back in childhood some year. Like lot of people are still operating at much younger ⁓ kind of levels because there were belief systems set up

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:02:54)

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:03:06)

in order when you were younger in order to survive, feel safe, cope, whatever that was. But it's actually not speaking about the trauma that's the helpful part. It's the what was what belief was said in order or what coping mechanism or what behavior emerged in order for you to feel safe. Sorry if there's a tail. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:03:24)

love that. I like it. I love it. I love it. I love what you're

talking just for listeners listening. We're talking about the cat. What ⁓ what you're describing is what you kind of said earlier what you're going through, right? You you got on the medication, you're the estrogen, you're reprogramming your brain right now. Right? You're on I think you said a two year type of timeframe. Yeah. That's so interesting. But you're not having to

Tracy Collins (3:03:37)

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:03:52)

there's ways to heal and be on a healing journey where you don't have to go back and divulge every detail of what happened. Relive it all. And relive it all you can if you want if it helps. Like there's nothing wrong with doing that. But it's not necessary to share every single detail if doing that causes you more trauma than the trauma itself. So yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:04:05)

Yes, yes. No, no, no, no.

is through.

Exactly. exactly.

Yeah. So for some people going and articulating the trauma is just too traumatic and it's not actually going to help. It's just going to put them back in trauma. So if somebody wants to talk about the trauma because it is actually cathartic or helpful, like that's fine, you know. So I'm not saying don't talk about it. It's just that, yeah, if it is, if it is re-traumatizing, if it is too triggering and too raw,

that's actually not the helpful component.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:04:51)

So how do you, for someone where it's more traumatic for them to share, let's say it's sexual abuse and they were sexually abused, but they don't want to talk about the actuals, you know, what happened to them. But we all know they were sexually abused. Like how do they go on a healing journey for that trauma without discussing what happened to them?

Tracy Collins (3:04:58)

Mm.

Thank you.

So that look it's different for everybody but

when so you would go back maybe so say it was an internal family systems paradigm but there are are lots of different ways you can do this but essentially what belief system was created because usually they come in because things are not going well right that's why somebody will go to therapy they're having trouble so really is about what belief system

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:05:34)

Right.

Tracy Collins (3:05:43)

was formed then or what were the emotions. So you're really talking about, because in order to survive and cope after that, I'm sure some kind of maladaptive, it either that they had a belief system about that there was something wrong with them or the world isn't safe. ⁓ Yeah, I bought this on myself, depending on what the is. There's some kind of belief system.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:06:00)

Maybe they blame themselves. Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:06:10)

that they have adopted in order to survive or feel safe or whatever that is then from there based on those beliefs you're going to have behaviors that align to that and quite often they're going to be maybe dysfunctional so it might be that they're just a people pleaser then they don't still have no boundaries so because so they just have always then been vulnerable to being abused because they had a belief system that

I had to just make others happy. My happiness wasn't important. You know, so it's really addressing the belief systems. Because you're saying, ⁓ so tell me about what happened when you were sexually abused. Well, it's got nothing to do with their belief system. Like them, they know what happened there. So them talking about that, if that's not part of the process that is going to be helpful, if it's just re-traumatizing, it's actually the belief. So because that's the part that's that, that, that child or whatever happened in that time, that's been carried through with them.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:06:46)

And so,

Tracy Collins (3:07:09)

that belief system.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:07:10)

Seems like

a much healthier approach. It's like, let's deal with what was left behind. The outcome catastrophic event that happened to you. You don't have to relive the catastrophic catastrophic event, but let's deal with the casualty that was left behind. That's, you know, that's really, really interesting.

Tracy Collins (3:07:28)

And I feel like there's what can be challenging as well as it's almost like part of your psyche is stuck, you know, back there and you've had this life event and then at some point, you know, for some of us, you can feel like you've evolved, but you've got this...

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:07:36)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:07:45)

this kind of remnant there. And sometimes it's like that part of you doesn't really know, not, live it, you've got two parts, two worlds. Like you've got this adult part that's evolved and had all these life experiences and has all this wisdom and knowledge, but you've still got this part of you that had a belief system that was built on something so terrible, but we need to almost bridge that together.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:08:06)

Yeah, it's like when the trauma happened, a little part of you got frozen in time with that trauma and it's stuck there. It's stuck. know, almost some people might call it your demon or demons, but it's that it's that thing.

Tracy Collins (3:08:11)

100%.

It's stuck

Yeah, a hundred. And it feels like

that. And this is that's that's a really interesting way ⁓ that we what you've just said Nicole, because you do you think it's a demon. So sometimes it's almost like is that's almost becomes a barrier for you not to want to go back there and address it. Because you're thinking having to address the trauma, but it's actually the little child that got left behind that you're really actually needing to go back and find. So it's not a demon at all. It's actually just that little child that was left back there with all the scarring.

And so that's...

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:08:48)

guess.

It's

finally honoring that child and being the person that child needed at that time. You can now go back and be that person for that child. Give that child grace and the attention and love and healing that no one else did at that time. You're actually being given the opportunity to go back and do that.

Tracy Collins (3:08:55)

Mm.

Absolutely. ⁓

Yeah,

yeah. And for many of us who didn't have maybe that parent to save us at that time or whatever, you become the parent that goes back and saves them. And if anybody, and so I'm talking very much in an internal family systems kind of dynamic. And if anybody, if this kind of thing resonates to them, that's what you'd be looking for in a therapist. And I love what you said Nicole, because I think a lot of us that stopped,

because we think that we're going back and facing the demons like it's this black thing, but it's not, you're actually going back and kind of rescuing the child. I mean, it's, yeah, it's.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:09:48)

I love that. I love that.

love, I love that. think the semantic, just changing the semantics and the whole concept of that ⁓ could be just that alone can be a psychological shift is not viewing it as my demons are getting the best of me or I'm fighting my demons or my demons are quiet, but sometimes they show up, but it's more just like, no, this, can go, it's this injured child that's scarred.

Tracy Collins (3:10:02)

Hmm.

Yes.

Thank you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:10:18)

that's still needing that healing. And it's just like tugging at your coattails saying, don't forget about me. It's very emotional. mean, my God, how transformative and life changing when you do that. I mean, it's got to, you know, it's because I've been on a long healing journey for a long time, but I know there's still there. It's still there. Like my trauma is still settled in there in my soul, you know, and it's. What's that? Go ahead.

Tracy Collins (3:10:20)

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So you might be able to reframe, sorry.

You might be able to reframe the demons, which is the avoidance part into going, rescuing the child. And it's the mature, wise, full-knowing Nicole now who can go back and has the capacity to see and experience that child and bring her.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:10:53)

Yes. Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:11:09)

kind of in and forward, ⁓ which is pretty cool. And it's not light work, but it's beautiful, like what it can give you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:11:11)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, like you said it, it bridges the two worlds. You're bringing this world to the present. Like, you don't have to be there anymore. You know, it's the healing. So then you become whole. You aren't the person that's like been living this life, but this other part of you is still stuck. You can now bring the two halves together and, and, that's the healing.

Tracy Collins (3:11:23)

Mm.

Yeah.

Good.

Mm.

Yeah, and acknowledge it

is so healing. It's so healing. So yeah, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:11:48)

So did

you continue for your PhD? what, did you keep studying?

Tracy Collins (3:11:52)

So yeah,

so I've finished ⁓ my PhD and I've now taken up my masters. ⁓ So that's in psychology. So I'm a registered provisional psychologist now ⁓ and I'm really enjoying that. So I get to apply it in my day to day.

which is fantastic and I think I've decided now that I do want to I definitely want to do a PhD still ⁓ but I might do it when I'm like 60 which is not that far away but anyway

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:12:27)

Did you stop

the work towards the PhD then, right? You got your masters. And then you went for your masters. And you're a registered provisional psychologist. I've never heard of that before. What does that mean?

Tracy Collins (3:12:35)

Yes.

psychologist.

⁓

So it just means that I'm in the provisional stage of being a psychologist. So ⁓ I'm still working towards being fully qualified. ⁓ So it's just, but I'm registered. So I'm now bound under the same oath ⁓ as a full psychologist. So.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:12:53)

Okay.

Do you have to get a

certain number of hours to become a ⁓ fully fledged one? Yeah, okay. So can you see clients or patients?

Tracy Collins (3:13:04)

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah,

will be, when I start supervision, soon you'll be seeing clients and stuff like that. So. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:13:17)

Is there an area

of like what type of, are you gonna do talk therapy or are gonna?

Tracy Collins (3:13:24)

I would

love to do internal family systems. So that's probably where...

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:13:27)

Can you

go into that internal family systems? is, like, can you define that?

Tracy Collins (3:13:34)

So essentially what you know how we're just talking about there's a there's a child at a certain stage so there are parts of our belief systems like where were they set up you know when were they established and quite a lot of the time it happens in that first eight years ⁓ when our brains are developing but you know over time you know events will happen and

Yeah, we will build belief systems and they can kind of stop us from growing. Yeah, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:14:03)

Okay, so it's basically what we were just talking about. That's called

internal family systems. So that's about, it's about the individual and what happened to them through their life and then stalling in those. Okay. it's not family counseling, it's- Okay, that's what I was trying to figure out. Looking at your- Okay, so it's about what happened to that child at those different points in their life and how it affects them.

Tracy Collins (3:14:09)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

⁓ And you

might then, so part of the therapy might be that you go back and you are almost viewing that experience or how that child not felt, it doesn't have to be through the trauma, but in that period of time, when that child is now looking out, you kind of almost try and see the world through that child's eyes, of the emotions, the landscape of their life.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:14:50)

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (3:14:56)

⁓ the relationships like and it's really about trying to understand what they were seeing, how it was developed. So you have a real understanding about how that was developed and how that made them feel safe but how it also made them feel stuck. ⁓ And so and then part of that is really integrating that child to understand that you know you're in control now, you're

the adult, you know, how to integrate that. ⁓ And so that's a really interesting process. And I think it gives us a lot of insight.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:15:36)

What tools do you use when doing that? Is it mainly talk therapy, do you do the like anything? Like I know there's tapping. People use tapping with. Do you do anything?

Tracy Collins (3:15:46)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I haven't I

actually haven't done that but that is very very good like ⁓ I Desensitization as well. A lot of that is apparently very very good. There's a lot of good research and evidence on that so the internal family systems so I had an amazing therapist with that as well a mentor and But he essentially would guide you through it and but also it was always about

keeping an observational distance through the process so you're not re-traumatizing, so you're not going into that because that's not the premise of it. So it's keeping that distance but enough to feel it. Yeah it is.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:16:23)

Yes.

Almost a third party perspective. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's champion. Then you can champion that child. You don't want to become that child. Yeah, you need to be outside so you can then be the champion of that child. That's almost

Tracy Collins (3:16:38)

Yeah.

Yeah, and it gives you

absolutely 100%. You can be that champion, you can be that rescuer, that adult that you didn't have at that moment, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:16:52)

Right. Right.

So you don't have to. Yeah, that makes sense then. Because talking about the trauma, like in detail, you're becoming that child again. You're living it. But if it's just about what the aftermath of what happened to them, you can be outside and help guide them through that. That's so fascinating.

Tracy Collins (3:17:04)

Mmm, mmm.

Mmm.

Yes, Yep and

sometimes it's been that what does this child need at the moment and it might be that they needed they needed to hug you know they needed to feel secure and safe and secure and what what does that child need right now in order to not be in this state of terror or whatever they're feeling and you know so you you're really becoming you're there you are be theropizing your own child.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:17:41)

Yes. What is the age group of say your target patient? Is it people our age? Is it younger?

Tracy Collins (3:17:52)

⁓ I'm very passionate about our generation, yeah, any age. I'm very much, guess because I'm, you know, it's probably salient to me that I'm very passionate about this age because we're also at an age where a lot of our healing ⁓ and a lot of our lifestyle choices are going to really

determine the quality of life that we're going to have going forward. Not only in our relationships, but you we're going to be aging and like with where AI is going and the advanced in health, we're on, we're kind of like on this cusp where we might have increased lengths of life. But if you don't have a good relationship with yourself, first and foremost, you know, that's a really rough road. It's a long life to live without a good relationship with yourself.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:18:24)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:18:49)

And then also that quality of life of just being healthy as well. We want a really good quality of life going forward. And I feel like it felt previously almost a bit self-indulgent to think of that, know, thinking of our upbringing, which was just getting through it. But I feel like it's a beautiful gift if we can have that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:19:09)

think your choice of wording though makes it okay and it's having a healthy relationship with yourself. Yes. That doesn't mean you need to be braggadocious about yourself. It's between you and yourself and kind of figure it out type of thing. And accepting yourself and probably as far as a healing journey, accepting your whole self is going back and healing those parts. Then you're truly accepting all of you and not denying that part of you anymore.

Tracy Collins (3:19:15)

Mm.

Mm.

Mmm.

Yeah,

not denying, not allowing that to stay stuck, addressing it. ⁓ Yeah, it's, it's, there's the, it's a bit cathartic, I guess, in that sense of also breaking the, I guess, the norm of ⁓ how we have normally approached dealing with life. You know, it's completely different. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:20:00)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:20:04)

rather than just, you know, get down, head down, get on with it, toughen up, you know. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:20:08)

Mm-hmm. We're finally

creating space for ourselves. We're creating space and giving ourselves grace, probably for the first time in our lives. And because, you know, no one's no one was going to give it to us and they didn't. And then we just grinded through, made sure we gave it to our kids. And now we're like, OK, wait a minute. I deserve it, too. I'm going to give myself. And that's one of the hardest things is for I think in general for our generation, at least for women, is to give ourselves grace. We we.

Tracy Collins (3:20:16)

Yep.

Yes.

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:20:38)

ourselves and have such high expectations of ourselves, expectations we would never place on any other person in our life. like superhuman expectations. And if we don't do them just perfect, it's like we used to think we're failing. And so just to even like let go of that, know, we're, it, I,

Tracy Collins (3:20:45)

Peace.

It sounds exhausting

even saying it, doesn't it?

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:21:00)

It does.

It makes me feel bad for us that we did that to ourselves. But I think there's a lot of reasons, right? I mean, it was the way we were raised. It was society. You know, there's there's so much to you know, some people will say the patriarchy, all that stuff. So it's almost like we're we I always say we're reclaiming our energy, we're claiming it. We're like all the things we've given to everyone else. It's coming back. We're giving it to us. ⁓ You know,

Tracy Collins (3:21:03)

Yeah!

Hmm.

EW.

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's a really interesting

way that you frame that as well because because we weren't given it, we've then given it to our children. But now we're kind of realizing that nobody's gonna give it to us. So we have to give it to ourselves. And I think that that is very counterintuitive to receive that gift from ourselves. Doesn't that sound, sounds a bit weird but.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:21:50)

It is. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:21:52)

It is

a very, ⁓ it's almost counterintuitive. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:21:56)

It's not comfortable. But

I think the more you do it, though, you're like, OK, I can do this. It's OK. I can do that. OK, that's you but it's not comfortable to to prioritize ourselves. It just isn't. It goes against everything.

Tracy Collins (3:22:00)

This is...

It isn't, isn't. I feel, yeah, and for

a lot of your viewers as well, it's kind of like we're talking in very broad strokes of ⁓ Gen X. And then the people that this will resonate with, think, you know, because there are some people that are too resistant to that change. And so it's hard to even probably listen to some of these conversations for some people. But then there's going to be the other ones that are on that journey already or wanting to start that journey of

giving to themselves or change or having these deeper awesome complex rich conversations ⁓ and unpicking it because it is actually, I love it. I love this journey of unpacking it because I think that resistance for a lot of people is because there's a lot of fear around that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:22:45)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:23:01)

fear around unpacking all that stuff, you know? We've lived in a box for so long, these are the parameters, like you going in and talking about this stuff or divulging in all this stuff, like that's kind of scary. So that's why I some people are stuck. ⁓ But for those of us that are, and for the people that are really resonating and listening and tuning in, they'll be the ones that are wanting to, they're curious, they're curious and they're wanting to delve in a bit more.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:23:16)

Yeah.

I agree. I think you just touched on what's it called, the gray divorce. Yes. Right. So women may be more so than men because we've always taken it, but women are now reclaiming their energy or giving this gift to themselves. Yeah. And it's creating a challenge for men. In relationships. In relationships, I always say in that situation is women are going through perimenopause and menopause. Their tolerance is...

Tracy Collins (3:23:52)

Mmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:23:59)

down, prioritizing, Gen X women are prioritizing themselves. And I think their partners either are going to have to level up or there's a divorce that happens. I really do think that. you're saying that almost could land to a guy negatively. it's not. What you're saying is we're giving this gift to ourselves. The way you framed it was perfect. And I won't be able to say it so eloquently, but you're giving this gift to yourselves.

Tracy Collins (3:24:08)

Mm-hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:24:29)

which doesn't necessarily jive so well for men per se, because no one else is gonna give you this gift, right? So you're giving it to yourself, but it can be considered as you're taking it for yourselves. But either way, it's a wonderful thing, but it doesn't work for everybody. And I think that helps lead to that gray divorce where you're just like, I'm evolving, please come with me. If you can't,

Tracy Collins (3:24:46)

Mm.

And

You

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:24:58)

Yeah, 100%. Problem.

Tracy Collins (3:24:58)

And

women are probably having, because we're much more, we will talk, we're much more social in emotions that we've already started this journey by the time we probably are having a conversation with our partner to invite them along on the journey. And the guy goes, hey, hang on. Sorry, I'm not really sure about this. I don't really know the conversation yet. ⁓ And it's scary because men as well, think, you know, and this is also broad strokes of what I'm talking about, but as a general narrative,

Men haven't been having those social interactions, conversations, haven't even really... Women, we will have such a rich, much richer language and ability to articulate very nuanced emotions. And men, you know, there's like, have you seen those emotion wheels? You know, so you start off with angry, sad, happy, blah, blah. And then as you get out, it's a bit more textured. And then you get out and like, you get more nuanced as you go out. Women, we're operating out here, you know, quite often.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:25:45)

No.

Tracy Collins (3:25:58)

And men, we're wanting them to come on from the journey, they're in this, like they're bit further in on the emotion will ability to identify the emotion they're having, articulate and actually have that conversation because there's sometimes some disconnect.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:26:15)

Are you

seeing that in Australia as well? Because I think that happened. It's a universal thing, right? A global thing.

Tracy Collins (3:26:23)

I agree. Yeah, I think it's, and

I think it's, you know, we inherited a lot of that. And, and for men, you know, it isn't, ⁓ it's men, how do we, how do they, they haven't had the same social experiences of these rich conversations and talking about emotions. And there's been this disconnect, or, and when you're being invited to come along from the journey, like, I think acknowledging that

This is so outside a scope of what you have been almost trained to do, if you know what I mean. Like your social structure and the way you've been operating has been also within a box, you know, and constrained to about what masculinity is, isn't. And you're looking out at the world going, what am supposed to talk about all these feelings? I don't even know what up, what 100%. Sometimes they're very shut off.

for some men, it can be very, very shut off. And it's a very scary thing to go, what now I have to be vulnerable and I have to articulate shit? what the?

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:27:25)

Yeah, yeah, we need to

go back. It's the emotional. I always say the Gen X boys were not given any emotional any space for emotional development by society or their parents, probably because of society, but except for anger. ⁓

Tracy Collins (3:27:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

But then also anger, but for men as well, anger, then there's shame around anger, having anger. You know, there's a lot of shame for men. don't know how to express their anger. Or if they do, there's a lot of shame around it. And so that can kind of get a bit stuffed down. ⁓ So I think that there's equally just as many

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:27:49)

Right.

Tracy Collins (3:28:04)

challenges but I, in saying that though, what I've been really amazed at is the capacity for when you have conversations with men that they're really just wanting the opportunities to talk about this a bit more. You know, like they actually are open to having these conversations and actually open to growing or understanding and learning. You know, I've been quite amazed at that, you how we're saying before.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:28:28)

Yeah.

On that though, for me, it feels like more a learned behavior as opposed to for women, it's more of an evolved behavior or something besides learned. You mean like midlife? They would be them learning? Well, to your point, the emotional wheel, think you said you're operating out on the fringe in a sense, or out in the outer and we're inside the box. We have to learn how to get out there, but you're already there. So it's an interesting thing. We're learning. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:28:52)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:28:58)

your authority,

we're learning to get there, I guess.

Tracy Collins (3:29:01)

Yeah, and I remember saying something to my ex-husband. You know, I used to say to him, can you just do this or just do that? Like I would see that him doing this would be a simple step. And I said to him in reflection, this is afterwards, separated after a couple of years, I said, I've realized, cause we ended up, did the emotional will thing, you know, had a look and he was like, I'm like, he's like, your language is out there, my language is here. And I was like, wow. And then I said to him,

I have now realized that what I thought was a small step and would be easy and attainable, I didn't realize that that was a mountain for you. Because I was so well versed and practiced and understood in my vocabulary and touch of motion. But so when I was asking him to be vulnerable or express himself in this way, I just I hadn't I hadn't gone on a journey with him.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:29:42)

interesting.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:30:02)

do that. And so my simple step was his mountain.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:30:06)

Yeah.

That is so interesting. I think we can relate to that. no, yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of couples could relate to that. That's really, that's interesting. We should just do an episode. I don't know if you'd be interested in coming on and doing an episode just about men's emotional development midlife. We should do an episode on that.

Tracy Collins (3:30:17)

Mm.

⁓ Yeah, I'm very passionate

about that area because I feel like men have so much more to offer ⁓ and but there's a lot of external pressures for them to operate in certain ways and it's a very it's a very challenging time I think for men to navigate at the moment and that's not just our age I think that is across all ages but I think for men at this age there's when their women are

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:30:37)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:30:55)

changing so much there is a lot.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:30:56)

Yeah, yeah, no,

I think that that would be good because one comment I see a lot of from men is they'll say we don't share our emotions because then they're used against us. me. So and I said to Brian, because I that's one thing I've never done to him. I can say in 33 years, I would never use anything he's shared emotionally against him weaponized. But there must be women out there because.

Tracy Collins (3:30:59)

Isn't it that?

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:31:24)

I can't tell you how many times I've seen that comment is we don't share it because it'll they'll be used against us. yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:31:27)

Yeah.

weaponized, yeah, isn't

it terrible that their vulnerability can be weaponized against them? That would be an awful dynamic to be in.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:31:35)

Yeah.

it's used against men probably because the men feel that it kind of goes back to the it's they're projecting their understanding of what you're saying.

I feel like it at least, right? It's more of a projection. Like if I say, I don't know, the cats make me emotionally vulnerable. You might say something like, you whatever, like, you know what I mean? Throw it back in my... How can you be scared of cats? that type Something like that, And then they get really, really almost that rejection sensitivity. you're rejecting how I'm feeling. You're not validating how I'm feeling about cats. And they, you know...

Tracy Collins (3:32:12)

Hmm.

misunderstood as well.

completely misunderstood then like because the language is flying over one another. Yeah. And sometimes you know sometimes the conversations have been going okay so when you say that this is this is what I'm hearing is that what it means or when I'm saying it's like it's almost like having to develop and go yeah what is our what is our language and how does that

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:32:21)

That's what I'm going to do. It's a language in congruence type of thing. It'd be really... Go ahead.

Tracy Collins (3:32:44)

how does it track for you? that, when I'm saying this, is that the same for you? Or does it have that same meaning? Because sometimes it could have a, you know, there be a gap in that and it's not landing. And so you're being misunderstood or it can be weaponized or, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:32:51)

Yes. It's active listening.

Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's so interesting. But it's active listening, right? There you've probably done active listening in some intro class. You say something I what I heard you just say, that's basic stuff, but that's communications. This is all communications. But it's the ability to actively listen, make yourself vulnerable to listen and to articulate your own experience in emotions or thoughts, whatever.

Tracy Collins (3:33:02)

Mm.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:33:23)

But you also have to have a partner that's willing to participate. But that's why it's active, because you both have to be actively engaged. I mean, I know women whose partners were not. Well, we've that. We've done the whole, listen, what I heard you just say is this. And it's like, no, that's not what I said. Right. We have. We have. you've got to get over a hump, you've got to go to the basics of active listening. But I think.

Tracy Collins (3:33:23)

Yes.

Thank

And that's where

if you're triggered back into some childhood like well you always do this blah blah blah blah blah Then you've actually it's like no no no you've overridden Where you were at like you need to keep that emotional regulation to keep that conversation tracking so you're not bringing in those Triggers or you know those you know it's like yeah

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:33:53)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and it happens.

So and you just got to recalibrate. I don't know, go do whatever. recalibrate and try to avoid avoid avoidance. Great. It's the it's the avoiding and just hoping it goes away. But I think you also as you said, can't bring back like stuff from childhood. But like if you're in a long relationship or marriage, you can't be like, well, you you always do it's like from 20 years ago, like, you have to try to stay present, I think and what's going on and

Tracy Collins (3:34:13)

I'm

Mm.

Yeah, you did.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:34:39)

That's the only way to really make any ⁓ headway in this situation.

Tracy Collins (3:34:44)

Absolutely, because

if you're totally if you're trying to have a conversation where you're growing, but you're to regurgitate all the back stuff and hold them accountable to but when you did that back then 15 years ago, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, unless you're to bring that back into say, Oh, okay, that gives me some understanding and reference to, know, 15 years ago, or five years ago, the you know, or the other year when you did that, I can kind of understand how that

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:34:52)

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:35:11)

why we're in difference, but rather than we can't bring it in and kind of weaponize it, know, or fuel it to say, but you always say it this way. ⁓ But that's that evolution and you have to have somebody who's willing to do it because otherwise you're just evolving by yourself in isolation. And I think that's where that this is happening. So we need to be able to try and bring our partners and that's both male and female, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:35:17)

Yeah, weaponize it.

Tracy Collins (3:35:39)

we've all got out, you if a guy can sit there and say, hey, this is really sucky to see my partner and like, they're all over the shop, but hell, must be terrible inside for them. You know, what they're going through must be really shit for them to be like this, you know. So if you've got two people like as long as you can come to this basic understanding of like, this isn't going to be always comfortable or easy. But if you're willing to come on the journey, like you could have a really rich.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:35:50)

Yeah.

⁓ the rewards of that and your relationship will be 100 times stronger than it was before. But I think to follow up on what you just said, I think in a lot of relationships and marriages, ⁓ empathy gets lost for each other. And it's trying and like you just said, like try to look at something from their perspective and don't automatically assume that ⁓ they're coming from a negative place in the conversation, you know, that

Tracy Collins (3:36:23)

Hmm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:36:37)

try to look at what they're going through and try to understand what they're going through, maybe what they're feeling. And it's that empathy that we easily give to our children, we easily give to the neighbor, but sometimes to our partner, we don't give them that grace of empathy. And I think that's something to remember.

Tracy Collins (3:36:38)

Thanks.

Mm.

No way.

Absolutely, because you think about the fact that we bring with us as well over a really, like when you've been with somebody a long time, there's gonna be resentment. There's gonna be still things that niggle at you and that want to, know, justify or, you know, ⁓ all those things. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:37:03)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:37:19)

It's tough, I think that's the other side of it though, is that richness of somebody that knows you so deeply and all your crap, ⁓ all the good stuff and all the crap. ⁓ And if we're talking specifically about our age now, this is the perfect time to have.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:37:29)

Yes.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:37:41)

these conversations in this way because we are transitioning like there is a lot of transitions our identities are shifting and we need transitions are so hard in life and I think we really underestimate how difficult transitions are so as we're transitioning like who would Nicole and Brian now you know maybe as the kids are leaving and as you know perimenopause is happening and all these these things

And who are we without our children? Who are we like, if we're facing this together, our identities as individuals and not just codependent old programming, because you do fall into patterns and way of being. And so, and I think that those shifts in identity are what can also create that, that separation and friction, because, because they're not on board with like, well, who are you? Like, where's my wife? Who's always done this and that and

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:38:21)

Yes, yeah, roles, yeah.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:38:37)

you know, now her priorities seem to be changing or her focus is not where it's been and ⁓ and now you're going to your husband looking for different maybe for different functional relationship like you know like well I want this to be a relationship now and they're like okay this first you know okay right well who am I now?

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:38:56)

I think

what's interesting is I'm tying it together what you're doing in that you're focusing on folks our age, you're helping to go be the person that you needed in childhood because you're going into this next phase of your life. And if you're healthy with yourself, you can be healthy as you live longer potentially. don't know if we touched on it too much, but the whole dementia aspect

Tracy Collins (3:39:23)

Mm.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:39:24)

You're almost kind of trying to get ahead of that with the new information and be part of the solution, it sounds like. Because more. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

Tracy Collins (3:39:32)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and and if we can

No, and and it's like We want to bring our partners along with that Because that dissolving of a relationship is really really hard and that's another whole identity, you know layer if that's dissolved ⁓ But if you can keep your relationship and if it's what you both want ⁓ You know and to evolve over this next period of

being the best version of yourselves in, you if you've both got a good relationship with yourselves and each other, ⁓ what a beautiful thing to carry on into the future.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:40:12)

Yeah,

yeah. And healing, that's a preventative of dementia, right? huge. That's what I was trying to articulate. yeah. is... You're to heal people to help them into the Help them, yeah. Because by healing, you're eliminating so many other ⁓ factors that lead to dementia, I would assume.

Tracy Collins (3:40:18)

huge.

you

Yeah, absolutely.

And if you can bring that relationship ⁓ forward, that relationship is quite preventative as well, like, know, ⁓ protective, sorry, is what I'm trying to say. That relationship is protective. Our relationships are very protective in our lives. So having good relationships ⁓ is very critical to our health, because the stresses of those ⁓ relationship breakdowns are

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:40:41)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:40:59)

huge. You know, we need to feel connected is huge for our brain protection. ⁓ And then the other lifestyle choices around that. But to feel understood, connected, all of those things, we really need that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:41:10)

Yeah.

it all ties together. wanted to go back

and ask you, when your father was ⁓ diagnosed and was ill, did you help care for him a lot? Like, were you hands on pretty regularly?

Tracy Collins (3:41:24)

Thank

⁓ Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. My mother was amazing. She primarily did it. Dad didn't really have any carers apart from at the very end. I was very involved with one, the one that essentially he thought he had an allergy for ages and his speech was slurring and I'm like, dad, it's neurological. He's like, meh. And, you know, so it took me six months for him to get a

MRI because I thought originally it was a stroke and he came back and he's like I told you so it wasn't a stroke and I said it's actually worse than probably a neurological disorder then like it's not probably a stroke and so it took like me probably about a year for him to go and get properly diagnosed because his gps just weren't picking it up they were just saying ⁓ it's an analogy and I had to say to him because he said my tongue's fat and I said

your tongue is not fat dad, but if it's not working, your brain, if you are not getting the messages from your brain for your tongue to work, your brain will interpret it as something like having a fat tongue, but it's because your brain, your tongue isn't working dad. So this is a neurological, this is what your brain does when things aren't kind of, so I had to, and he just very much dismissed it. ⁓ But yeah, then he was diagnosed and yeah, I was very much involved in

researching a found medication that could help. ⁓ Essentially it doesn't stop motor neurone but it can give you like a period of reprieve where the symptoms don't decline. And so his neurologist wasn't prescribing it. It's reasonably new. It had only been really seen in Eastern states but I've kind of been on the forefront of the medication stuff. And then when he wanted to go through end of life care. ⁓

and choose basically, ⁓ I don't know what it's like in America, but you can actually choose to.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:43:20)

Like assisted suicide?

Tracy Collins (3:43:22)

It's basically here, it was you stop being fed and it's like a palliative thing. it's basically morphine. Yeah, basically it's just on morphine and yeah, yeah. I think they called it end of life care here. ⁓ But God, he was so stoic all the way through, but he maintained.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:43:28)

We have palliative cares, what we call it. think hospice for palliative. Yeah. ⁓ Okay. Yeah, that's like hospice. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:43:50)

being himself, which is very challenging all the way through, didn't say thank you once. ⁓ You know, just he found that he just couldn't do that. And he had a long time to think about ⁓ things and even he wrote his eulogy. But there was no mention of us as family, you know, it was about the Navy, it was about everything external. ⁓ But like it mentioned that I had I got married and had kids, two kids.

like didn't even say our names, you know, so it was, you know, this is the kind of thing that is challenging when you go, wow, so this man, I'm his daughter, I've still, and his wife and two children, we're all caring and loving for this man that has shown us no kindness, no love, and even on his deathbed couldn't show any of that.

yet he's got three, how, I know it was, I was also going like, I was proud of us, but I was also going, the fact that he couldn't see that if he had, what he could have had in his life could have been so rich and beautiful. Cause even through all of that, we could just care so deeply and be there. It was, I think that was the sadness.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:45:12)

He never embraced it. I'm sure. Never let it in. Do you think he was a narcissist at all?

Tracy Collins (3:45:14)

Yay.

I think that his, yeah, I definitely had narcissistic elements for sure. I think he was actually ⁓ undiagnosed autistic, absolutely. But he had massive trauma, massive trauma. But it showed me, it wasn't like, it showed me that he just couldn't go there. Even when he was.

in no matter where his body brain everything was broken to he could not do that and it wasn't like it was at that last minute we had that cathartic moment you know ⁓ thank you i love you blah blah blah but one i guess what he did he didn't say because he couldn't speak towards the end but he when he was went through he wanted me there with the discussions with the doctors

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:45:58)

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:46:16)

but he also just wanted me to stay with him. When I said, do want me to go or do want me to stay? He'd always go stay. So just him wanting me to be there. at the same time, that was probably the most he could do. one thing, this is probably maybe 48 hours before he passed away, one of his naval friends came in and they go, and dad was out on morphine, couldn't really get through to him.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:46:27)

That was was this way.

Tracy Collins (3:46:45)

and this guy came in, a friend, and he's going, hey, Trevor, Trevor, that's my dad's name. And then he called his naval serial number and he he said this series of numbers and he said, attention sergeant, and he's like, just, and my dad's eyes bang, opened. And he was like, that recall, that showed how

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:47:08)

Wow.

Tracy Collins (3:47:13)

That wiring, nobody could get through it, but he did a military call and called him to attention and my dad's eyes opened. I was like, far out. That's amazing. So we are very much our hard wiring. It showed me.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:47:24)

That's amazing. That is amazing. Wow.

Yeah, no kidding. Did

through the time of during that year where it sounds like you were really taking care of him and involved everything. How were you retrick? Was your trauma re triggered over? Like, was that was that a torturous year? Not just because of his illness, but because of your trauma being re triggered?

Tracy Collins (3:47:40)

Peace.

That was very cool. ⁓

⁓ absolutely. That was very hard. It was very... ⁓

It's like such discomfort, the level of discomfort and the challenge to go back in. And one of the things that I did consciously say to myself is that I wanted to go in without an expectation of what I was going to get back. ⁓

and to do it with love, you know. And so I wanted it to be my gift without needing to have that give back, which everybody really wants. So that was a constant challenge for me to go. I have set this intention. So when he passes, it's his gift.

because I don't want there to be that level of resentment or anger because I don't want to hold on to that anymore.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:49:13)

So was also a gift for yourself.

Tracy Collins (3:49:17)

Yeah, but it was a gift that I could only give myself because I had to remove that gift from it coming from him.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:49:17)

It was because you were.

Correct.

So by giving him the gift unconditionally, you were freeing yourself from any potential resentment or anger you would have from him not reciprocating. And that was a gift to yourself. you already, you took steps ahead of time to protect yourself from any expectations because you knew he's not going to reciprocate. That process though, that must have been hell. You had to have

Tracy Collins (3:49:30)

Cheers.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

See you.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:49:55)

Continue to talk to yourself. I assume throughout that right? It's not like I'm gonna go do this and I'll wait till the end and it's all good That was a probably daily. Yeah

Tracy Collins (3:50:05)

and driving

in the driveway, walking in the door, walking in the bedroom, seeing him deteriorate and seeing his behaviors still being still, he could be so cruel and awful, but just accepting that. So, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:50:29)

He tested you to the end. Yeah, but you

triumphed, you know, you triumphed and ⁓ but I can't imagine how hard that was. So and I'm sure many people can relate to that. And then to go right from that into the PhD study of your own trauma. Yeah. It's like, okay, wait, this might be a little much. Maybe a break. you in school?

Tracy Collins (3:50:39)

Yes.

Just call me a per- suck of a punishment!

Yeah, yeah,

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:50:58)

or taking No, she went after, yeah. started to pee. I there was an overlap.

Tracy Collins (3:51:01)

I was doing my honours

year through that period.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:51:06)

But then, did he start

the PhD after he passed though? Yeah. So, and that was studying that intergenerational trauma transmission. The military, yeah. Did you ever do MasterChef again after that one season?

Tracy Collins (3:51:09)

Yes, I started the PhD after he passed, yeah.

Yeah, and that was through the military. ⁓

Yes, so I did in 2019. I was asked to go back on and I went, no, told you. Like, no, no, wait, wait, wait. Different conditions. So we got to have our own bedrooms, own bathrooms. We could, I said, as long as I could fly back and see my kids every week, that was fine. Cause I promised them I'd never leave them again. So I went and did that. I made it halfway through and serendipitously I,

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:51:39)

Okay.

Tracy Collins (3:51:54)

when I the exact weekend that I was ⁓ eliminated was the weekend that COVID broke out like COVID was already just sort of starting there were no lockdowns before that but COVID just had broken out in the Barossa but they said if basically they would have flown me back that weekend, ⁓ next weekend if I was still in the competition and that's when all the lockdowns happened with during filming and they said you wouldn't have been able to go back and see your kids and that would have been like another three months and I just

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:52:17)

Mm.

⁓ wow.

Tracy Collins (3:52:24)

Okay, thank you, Universe.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:52:25)

Yes.

Yeah, thank God. That's amazing.

Tracy Collins (3:52:29)

Yeah,

or if I'd got eliminated and I was over there, wouldn't have been able to come back even.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:52:34)

And no, that's crazy. did you still experience like trolling and stuff after that second season or had things changed as far as your reception on social media and all that?

Tracy Collins (3:52:44)

Yay.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I didn't really get, yeah, I didn't really get negative stuff from that second one. But I also didn't get profiled as high, you know, I was only halfway through. and so that was kind of a little bit of a, I think it just, I think it had been brought to me as a, just my personal challenge just to have fun with it, you know, not take it so seriously.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:53:00)

Right, right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Tracy Collins (3:53:16)

And I felt like I did that. I met my own brief.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:53:20)

Yeah,

and it's kind of nice you got to go do it under better conditions and not have it be this whole psyops situation where you got to experience it in a different way. I think that's a testament to you though as you evolved as a person and went into it differently and had your own set of boundaries and conditions and you're like, fuck this, I'm not coming unless you're going to honor these. And that's kind of cool. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Tracy Collins (3:53:26)

yes.

Yeah.

Yeah,

no, and so the best thing that I got out of that is like, yeah, my closest friend now who's one of the judges on the show ⁓ and her ⁓ friendship has been the gold nugget of that experience. yeah, you don't find, having, you know, finding those people in your life that you're like, yeah, you're a keeper. ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:54:03)

That's wonderful.

Yes. Cool.

Yes. And I always tell my daughter, you might, you're going to have seasons of friends and there may be 10 at that time. And if you get one out of there, that's like gold, and then you'll have another experience and you might get one or two, but you're going to end up with like maybe five or four, whatever three, but they're, they're the gold, you know? So it's not the quantity, it's the quality. And sometimes it's hard to remember that because the quantity is louder than the quality sometimes, but.

Tracy Collins (3:54:19)

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

100%.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:54:39)

It's

gold. I always say if you can count on your hand five good, loyal, trustworthy women in your life, you're rich. There's no question.

Tracy Collins (3:54:47)

Absolutely. And who can

authentically be with yourself? Like, and they will accept the crappy side of you and the good side of you. They can hold both of those sides and be okay with it.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:54:52)

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

and they cheer for you as you walk by as you're succeeding. They're happy for you even if you're at that moment doing quote unquote better than them. They're still cheering you on. They're not jealous or trying to tear you down or I know you guys have the tall poppy syndrome in Australia. You called ankle biters but they allow you to shine and they they they celebrate you. It's hard to find. So

Tracy Collins (3:55:11)

Mm-hmm.

Thanks.

Absolutely absolutely

and so yes celebrate those and I was like that's for me that's that second series was ⁓ Yeah about that for me that that little friendship gold nugget

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:55:38)

That's awesome. That's cool. Before

I ask my last question, do you have any questions? I do have two. Okay. One, did you ever get your high school diploma or the equivalent? We call it a diploma here. Did you ever get your high school certificate or graduation?

Tracy Collins (3:55:52)

No, but my bachelor's supersedes that so that's okay.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:55:54)

Yeah.

The reason I ask, I think it's remarkable what you've done. You've been, what a role model. I love it. think just hitting stuff head on, think it's really cool. Kudos to you. think you're a role model for any young woman or woman our age that listens and you've so much to offer and, and the, you're choosing to do now. I think it's really cool. Well, you got to come back and at some point. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:56:11)

Mm.

Thank

I'd love to. I feel

like you guys are 100 % my vibes. I'm already going, when can I get you guys to come over to the browser?

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:56:25)

Yeah. I just love it.

As corny as it sounds, I'm really proud of you. I'm happy for you. It's nice job. Absolutely. My question on a much, much lighter note from the whole topic of conversation, music. ⁓ In Australia, you've got ACDC, you've got other bands. ⁓ What's your musical vibe as an Australian?

Tracy Collins (3:56:39)

I hope.

Yes.

I actually went and saw ACDC a few years ago in concert and I'm watching them going, at the time though, that like same age as my dad and I'm like going, these guys like...

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:57:01)

that's cool.

Tracy Collins (3:57:09)

⁓ amazing. Like they completely rocked it. I've never bought an ACDC CD or I've never bought any of music but you know every one of their songs they're all anthems you know like that you hear in the pub growing up. ⁓ Absolutely. ⁓ And I grew up with quite a few Australian icons and I'm trying to

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:57:11)

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

What about Men

at Work? That was a big band here.

Tracy Collins (3:57:36)

That was

big. I'm pretty sure, is Boom Crash Opera Australian? is that, have you ever heard of them, Boom Crash Opera? I'm pretty sure they're Australian, because they came up the other day. I loved their music. Yeah, have to have a look.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:57:47)

Who? No. Now I have to them out. They might be Australian.

Okay, I'm checking them out.

Is it in excess Australian?

Tracy Collins (3:58:05)

Yeah, that was my first ever concert I went to. First? Are you serious? I love that!

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:58:08)

That was my first ever concert. I was in eighth grade. So you were

younger than me, but I was in eighth grade when I saw them. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:58:19)

Yeah, oh yeah,

yeah. And I remember going, that was my very first concert. Love, love NXS still.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:58:29)

my gosh, Michael Hutchins was so dreamy. my gosh. He was amazing. I love NXS. I still love NXS. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (3:58:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And, well, Crowded House, think they're technically New Zealand.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:58:42)

Yeah, but Crowding House is good. Did you listen

to American music at all? Or British? Probably British too, for sure. There's so many bands from Britain.

Tracy Collins (3:58:49)

yeah, heaps.

⁓ yeah I was a massive, I still am a massive fan of Ben Harper and actually my second child is called Harper and it was funny because my husband was like so your dream man is a tall black African-American music singer and he goes and you were married to a short white account and he's like way to hit the goals Trace like you really... But yeah Ben Harper's music loved

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:59:02)

wow.

This is...

Tracy Collins (3:59:22)

obsessed with him for quite a while. And I listened to lot of American music over time, for sure. But I feel like I've just got a very eclectic, like I can go from listening to, like the, ⁓ you know, all the stuff that we listened to as kids in the pub, you know, growing up. And I went to like lots of concerts where, you know, yeah, Fatboy Slim went through all, you know, different eras of, you your music, house music.

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:59:30)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Tracy Collins (3:59:51)

but still loved Rolling Stones and yeah, then there was the Beatles English. ⁓ I did, but I wasn't hugely, hugely into them. ⁓ Tea Party, ⁓ are they emotional? ⁓

GenX Adulting Podcast (3:59:56)

Yeah. Yeah. Do ever listen to the Grateful Dead?

Tea party. I've never had a tea party.

Another one to check out.

Tracy Collins (4:00:13)

But yeah, they're just very eclectic and I quite, yeah, it's all over the shop. And even like, well, if you're back to like in the 90s as well, like there was a lot of that hip hop kind of music. Oh, like Nirvana, yeah, that was massive. U2, massive U2 fans. So yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:00:22)

Yeah.

Yes, and grunge, Nirvana, Pearl Jam. Yeah. All that. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (4:00:41)

And then I can still go and enjoy a Katy Perry song or, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:00:46)

Yes. You

know what's funny is that our 16 year old, they all are listening to music from 2016 now, like it's big. And Katy Perry, like he'll be out in the back with his friends when he has friends over and they're listening to Katy Perry. And I'm just like, and they listen to other stuff too from 2016. Don't they call it old? I think they call it like, not classic, but like old music and it's 2016.

Tracy Collins (4:00:52)

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah. And like the, you know, even like, I don't mind having a dance to a good old Spice Girls song every now and then. But I love how my kids have been also going back and listening to some of our stuff. ⁓ But even like Jim Crouse and even John Denver has been played by the kids. And I'm just like, I love that.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:01:16)

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Yeah.

Tracy Collins (4:01:37)

that is such a melting pot ⁓ of music. I felt like we went, there was more discreet genres that we went through. And I feel like now it's just, you know.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:01:38)

No, it's great.

Mm-hmm.

It's all melded together. I know the kids right now are really into the 90s, 90s fashion, 90s style, you know, and it's just, love to ⁓ see it. even the clothes and everything, all that stuff. I love to see it. Do you have any other questions? No, that was it. That was it. mean, Tracy, we can't thank you enough for coming on, sharing your story with us, with our listeners, being so candid and open.

Tracy Collins (4:01:55)

Mm-hmm.

⁓ The Drought Martens and Birkenstocks are huge.

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:02:17)

about everything you've gone through. You're an inspiration. There's no question the fact that you went through what you went through. You ⁓ fought that era where you were involved with alcohol and drugs and came out of it triumphant on your own terms, then owned salons and became an Aveda represent like a salon owner. mean, that one I'm just he doesn't understand. I'm so impressed with that. You know, and then

Tracy Collins (4:02:39)

not true.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:02:46)

to go on MasterChef and then to open up your own restaurant. I mean, these are huge, huge accomplishments. And while you're doing that, you're a mother of three, you know, and you were married for a very long time. That was a marriage. And then to have this beautiful friendship and co-parenting relationship with your ex-husband, that's an accomplishment. mean, so it's just a comp... And I do think you're a high achiever. ⁓

Tracy Collins (4:03:14)

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:03:15)

So, and maybe I feel like every time I talk to a Gen X woman, there's somewhere in there a high achieving characteristic, you know? And so I think it was kind of bred in us. But I think something that people can take away from this is no matter what is going on, you can still continue to take on new things, new projects, try new things, go back to university, study something that interests you.

create a whole new career from that. You know, it's just one that helps people, one that helps people. And then you've discovered this ADHD diagnosis, which was completely life changing. And there's your kitty cat. ⁓ Your journey is so diverse and you just continue to go and achieve, but but then also heal and recognize.

Tracy Collins (4:03:55)

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:04:10)

that you needed to take care of yourself and give yourself grace. That's the counter to all the high achieving because the high achieving and the grind kind of can come naturally to women our age, but to stop and self prioritize and to heal and to take care of yourself through perimenopause and to figure out what's going on and then get this ADHD diagnosis, that's a whole nother effort and that's more uncomfortable to take care of ourselves.

Tracy Collins (4:04:16)

Thanks

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:04:39)

And then, know, sharing the journey you went through with your father, there's so much here that I think will resonate with people and help them and help them feel seen, help them feel not alone, help them feel validated. And even our discussion about therapy, I mean, there's so much here. There's so much here. And I really do want to have you come back on to delve into Gen X men's emotional development. I think...

Tracy Collins (4:04:57)

Yeah.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:05:08)

Like you had said, this is not discussed enough. And as we're all going through our changes, space has to be made for them somewhere. There has to be resources for them and there isn't any.

Tracy Collins (4:05:17)

Mm.

And a conversation

starting as well, just as we're starting our conversation about perimenopause and stuff, this conversation needs to happen as well and emerge.

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:05:30)

Yes, and

they go through their own thing with Andrew Paws and I don't ever hear anything about their change. It's called Andrew Paws. I don't see anything about that. nothing changed and we're all good. so but to spend so much time with us. I mean, again, we so appreciate it. Thank you. I know it was early on where you are when we got started. So we appreciate the time that you gave us and our listeners. Definitely.

Tracy Collins (4:05:38)

Yes.

You

Mm.

⁓

Yeah and I want to reflect that straight back to you so thank you so much ⁓ for your patience in me coming and having a chat to you but love you guys I love what you're doing and I think it's such an important conversation and I love the fact that you framed it in the generation you know because we do have this collective experience even though they're all a bit different but I think that I love that you're framing it for our generation to make understanding of

it and you've pulled us up in a way that it's a generational thing not just a male female or you know it really is very inclusive and I think that I think it's nice to look at it in this generational thing so there's this camaraderie that we have ⁓ so and I'd love to walk into you guys so and thank you for having me like seriously and I please do have me back on I could chat to you all day

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:06:41)

Yeah, absolutely.

We will.

And again, like, especially as we're going through these transitions, as you talked about, we're all going through a transition. And as much as Gen X women are starting to support each other, if we can figure out a way to also support and help the men as they're going through their transition, you know, I think that that would as a generation be what a success that would be. He's like he's he's he's looking. We don't need help. Yeah.

Tracy Collins (4:06:54)

Thanks.

Yeah.

Hahaha!

GenX Adulting Podcast (4:07:16)

We will be having Tracy back on to have that

episode and we will have where you can find Tracy in the show notes. So please, if you have any comments or questions, leave them and ⁓ we will definitely get back to you. If you have any comments or questions for Tracy, she will see them and she will get back to you. And again, thank you so much, Tracy. We enjoyed our time with you and listeners. We will see you next time. Bye.

Tracy Collins (4:07:30)

Absolutely.

Thank you.