<b>[Music]</b><b>Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we have Greg with us. Welcome Greg. Thank you.</b><b>Thank you for having me. We're thrilled to have you. Our first question is always</b><b>what year were you born? 76. Okay so you're GenX. Yeah and you're like, you're</b><b>not young GenX but you're getting there. Yeah</b><b>I think so. You're edging towards the end but</b><b>you're still hardcore in that generation. Yeah I would say so. I think I felt a</b><b>little bit on that like I connect with you know yeah certain side of the GenX.</b><b>So I think 76 is legit. Yeah of course. Yeah yeah yeah I think that's like they</b><b>can still your childhood was probably still very GenX childhood. Yeah I think so.</b><b>So where were you born? Miami, Florida. Okay and were your parents from there? My</b><b>dad is from Miami, Florida. Yeah okay. I'm second generation native. Okay so.</b><b>Very rare. Yeah you're like a real Floridian, a</b><b>real guy from Miami. So what about his parents?</b><b>Where did they come from? New York. Okay. And</b><b>then my great grandfather I believe is from Italy.</b><b>Okay. That's the connection. So your dad's</b><b>Italian? Italian. 100? Yeah dad's 100. Okay. Yeah.</b><b>And so they came over from Italy. Yeah. And then</b><b>they were in New York, his parents, and then came</b><b>down to Miami. Do you know why they came down to</b><b>Miami? I guess his work. I think work. But other</b><b>than that I don't really know a lot. My grandfather</b><b>passed a couple months before I was born. Do you know</b><b>what your grandfather did that would have brought</b><b>him down here? I think it was like steel and I think</b><b>it was like steel and stuff like that. Okay. Yeah.</b><b>And then your mom where's she from? My mom's from</b><b>Short Hills, New Jersey. Okay. I know where</b><b>that is. The mall. The mall. New Jersey Sloppy Joe,</b><b>Melbourne Deli. Yeah. Everyone knows the</b><b>Melbourne Deli. So good. Yeah. When we lived there the</b><b>Short Hills was like the fancy mall we'd go</b><b>to sometimes. So okay so she's from New Jersey.</b><b>How did they meet? They met in Columbia.</b><b>Columbia in school. Okay so they both went to Columbia?</b><b>Okay and so they're college sweethearts? Yeah I</b><b>guess that's yeah I guess they are. Yeah it was</b><b>like it was my dad's segment. I went to</b><b>Cornell. Okay. And bright guy but then got kicked out</b><b>uh like in his freshman year. I guess he</b><b>didn't study or apply himself very much. He played</b><b>football. Played like uh like little they had two</b><b>types of football like under 160 pounds or something</b><b>like that. No kidding. Yeah and then um and</b><b>then he came back home and uh yeah and then back to</b><b>Columbia. So he so he left Cornell because he</b><b>wasn't focusing and and locking in basically</b><b>and then he came back to Miami but he was still</b><b>able to get into Columbia. Well so yeah that's</b><b>impressive. Yeah smart girl. I know but my dad</b><b>was real bright. Yeah no kidding. My mom's real</b><b>bright too actually. I think my mom's smarter</b><b>than my dad. What did they get their degrees in?</b><b>My mom's a dental hygienist. Okay. She went</b><b>from there to Penn. Okay. And finished and got her</b><b>dental hygienist there too. Yeah and then my dad</b><b>um yeah I think my dad is was general business and</b><b>then he uh and then he actually spent a little</b><b>time at FSU too and then taught himself how to</b><b>be a CPA and and became an accountant then hated</b><b>it and became a life insurance assessment. Oh no</b><b>kidding. Yeah okay. Is that funny? Yeah it is</b><b>funny. I hated it. Like just yeah just couldn't stand the</b><b>boringness of it. Yeah. So they met at Columbia</b><b>but then your mom went to Penn and he went to FSU</b><b>but they stayed together? Yes well so this is</b><b>where it's blurry for me and like okay this is funny</b><b>because I should know these things but I always</b><b>my dad passed when I was 25 so I don't think I was</b><b>I don't think I cared. That's not the</b><b>right word but I guess you know it just wasn't</b><b>as relevant to me as it is now. Yeah. And it's</b><b>funny thinking about this I was like I should</b><b>probably talk to my mom and really map that out</b><b>more clearly. That's interesting because I think</b><b>yeah I was trying to figure it out. Okay but they</b><b>obviously stayed together even going to separate</b><b>schools. Yes. They did long distance. Yes. And</b><b>then he ended up back in Miami and then when she</b><b>graduated Penn she probably met him down there I</b><b>would think right. She's gonna be so mad at me. I</b><b>okay so if I really think the actual way I</b><b>worked was he goes Cornell back here military. Oh yes.</b><b>So he was a Marine. Okay. Yeah because like they</b><b>were a hardcore family so like if he got kicked</b><b>out he actually went to a boy's boarding</b><b>school in high school too. So my dad like my like me</b><b>heavy ADD very spazzy. Okay. They sent him to</b><b>boarding school for high school place called</b><b>Middlesex in Massachusetts. Okay. And so then</b><b>this is where it gets fuzzy Cornell back home</b><b>military I think FSU then Columbia because I think</b><b>in Columbia they met got married and came here so</b><b>my mom actually could be Penn Columbia. Okay that</b><b>makes more sense. That might make more sense. Okay.</b><b>Here she's gonna be so mad. Yeah okay so the</b><b>military how long was he in the military? Four</b><b>years. Did he serve? Yeah he did languages and he</b><b>was in San Diego. Languages meaning? Translating.</b><b>For what languages? That's a great question.</b><b>Never got into it. Okay. Never talked about it. But</b><b>probably like I would think Italian right? I</b><b>was most actually my dad was really good Spanish.</b><b>Okay. And he did just a lot of translation</b><b>stuff but would never really never really got into</b><b>what he did. And he was wearing California</b><b>you said? Yeah. That is really interesting. What</b><b>years would that have been do you think? No clue.</b><b>But that would have been like if you were born in</b><b>76 that would have been the 60s. For sure. Yeah</b><b>Vietnam. He served during Vietnam but never served.</b><b>He never went over there. Okay so he served</b><b>during Vietnam but it was in California translating.</b><b>Probably like semi-intel stuff. Yeah and got</b><b>really lucky you know to not have to. It is so</b><b>interesting. Wow for four that is really</b><b>interesting. Okay and then he went to Colombia</b><b>your mom probably went to Penn that makes</b><b>sense and then to Colombia. Yeah. And then did they</b><b>get married before they graduate? Do you know?</b><b>No. No they got married down here. Okay so then</b><b>they got married up there but they moved down</b><b>here. Okay so they get married up there they moved down</b><b>to Miami. And was his parents still here in</b><b>Miami when they moved? In Miami Shores. Okay and then</b><b>her parents though were still in Jersey right?</b><b>You're other set of grandparents? Yes yes still</b><b>in Short Hills. They had that home until my</b><b>grandmother passed. Okay and were their uncles,</b><b>cousins, aunts? Yes she has two brothers. Okay.</b><b>One two younger. She's the oldest and then she had a</b><b>Jimmy and Doug. My dad is the youngest of four total. One older lived here in Boca.</b><b>Um older brother then older sister then older</b><b>brother then him. So he's the baby. He's the baby.</b><b>And then were there aunts and uncles and cousins</b><b>that uh for you that you grew up around in Miami?</b><b>You know um it's funny uh Michael Tony his</b><b>family was probably the closest we were probably</b><b>closest to them because uh that's on my dad's</b><b>side because um it felt like Boca to Miami Shores was</b><b>you know like 100 miles away right? Like back then it felt like oh my goodness</b><b>where are we going? Why are we in a car for this long?</b><b>Um but we would get together but you know the the</b><b>age difference between my you know the oldest and</b><b>the youngest and that family was significant. Right</b><b>right that makes sense. But I'm close I'm close to</b><b>Uncle Tony's daughters now. That's cool. Yeah that</b><b>it's they're great. That's cool. They're so great.</b><b>So your parents are married um your dad you</b><b>said was an accountant for a while. Yeah KPMG</b><b>and Pete Morwick like before all that happened</b><b>and then was like this is terrible and became like a</b><b>at that at that point life insurance and then a</b><b>financial planner. Okay and your mom was a dental</b><b>hygienist. I was a dental hygienist for a</b><b>while until she was like I don't love this at all.</b><b>Which is right this is really interesting. And</b><b>then or and then they uh and then she at night</b><b>studied to become uh like a librarian or teacher</b><b>and then she ended up being the media specialist</b><b>for uh Killian High School. Okay. And then um</b><b>and then schools up in uh the Pasco County area.</b><b>Nice. Cool. Um now when were you are you the do</b><b>you have siblings? Yeah I have an older brother</b><b>and a younger brother. Okay so there's three boys.</b><b>Yeah. Um did they start their family pretty quickly</b><b>after moving down here? That's an excellent question. No I I don't I think it was</b><b>four or five years before okay or my older</b><b>brother was born. That's kind of unusual for back then.</b><b>Yeah. You know that's. I think I think my mom was</b><b>like 30 when I was born which makes Morgan like 20</b><b>or 27 and a 27 and a half ish. Okay so she</b><b>worked for a while and before she yeah had you guys um</b><b>once she you know had your older brother do you</b><b>know if she was a stay-at-home mom for a while?</b><b>She worked. So she worked. Yeah. Well so did you</b><b>guys um so she worked when you guys were little</b><b>elementary school middle school all of that did you guys go to daycare?</b><b>Yeah and yeah there was a a couple of um a</b><b>couple like church church like schools and things like</b><b>that that we would go to. Okay. In the local</b><b>area um I remember you know it's all really</b><b>fuzzy candidly it's kind of weird um because</b><b>they uh so I was eight and they got divorced.</b><b>My dad really struggled as as an as an accountant</b><b>he was kind of like I didn't want to do this anymore</b><b>and he knew he didn't want to do it but he</b><b>really struggled to like leave that and go be um</b><b>go be a financial planner or life insurance guy</b><b>and I think that wrecked his ego. The struggle.</b><b>Okay. The inability to provide the struggle and</b><b>then I think like and I look back and I think that</b><b>that resulted it might as sweetheart of a guy but</b><b>but I think that ended up like he was like tough</b><b>into the family unit or at least with my mom like</b><b>you know what I mean like there's a conflict there</b><b>but I think that conflict was like because he was</b><b>having struggles dealing with his change. He was</b><b>kind of in limbo. Yeah and there were no</b><b>unsettled. It's not like you talked about things back then</b><b>I would assume. No help. Yeah there was no one</b><b>to consult with. Oh well no mental health was a</b><b>bad word you know talk totally. None of that he</b><b>could have had some depression going on. Totally</b><b>and he's a you know big ADD guy you know me</b><b>yeah all three of us are ADD, ADHD if you will it's</b><b>working you know and and yeah there's not a lot</b><b>of help there was a lot of ritalin take it. Yeah no</b><b>no one what was he on meds for his ADD? I</b><b>don't think so. I feel like that was pretty</b><b>pretty. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah</b><b>yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah</b><b>yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah</b><b>he's kind of he's kind of stuck and that'll</b><b>come out in different ways and and before he could</b><b>make his shift you know it sounds like there was</b><b>a breakdown within the marriage you know and that</b><b>makes sense and again because there now you can</b><b>talk about all these things so easily but back</b><b>then and I think also he was Italian right you</b><b>probably need to be the man and not talk about</b><b>your feelings and all that so that probably all</b><b>went into play so because it's unusual too back</b><b>then during the 70s women were women did work</b><b>obviously and I know that but it really wasn't</b><b>prevalent it was just starting in the 70s and so</b><b>to have your mom be working then wasn't necessary</b><b>usual my mom did end up working because she was</b><b>a single mom and I think that was more normal but</b><b>to have a woman married and still be working full</b><b>time that wasn't totally the norm she had a tough</b><b>she had a tough mom an independent mom as well</b><b>so even though uh in New Jersey my uh grandfather</b><b>was the town dentist the short-hills dentist</b><b>and um James Conklin and uh and it was interesting</b><b>because she was I think a flight attendant my</b><b>grandma right but but like anyway it was just</b><b>like she was a worker versus not stay at home</b><b>for per se right yeah and uh and my mom going to</b><b>college and and two good colleges and and</b><b>those things like yeah like uh yeah that was always</b><b>pushed like my mom's tough cookie man so that</b><b>that really started with your grandmother then</b><b>yeah you think that and she was that example and</b><b>I would love to know where your grandmother got</b><b>it from because it started somewhere you know</b><b>and it wasn't the norm it wasn't so somewhere along</b><b>the line your grandmother made that decision</b><b>right did there did your was your grandmother first</b><b>generation here or were her parents because</b><b>I think you said your dad's family was first</b><b>generation right no my dad's uh my dad's let's</b><b>say my dad's grandfather was first generation so</b><b>his father was born here in the states okay yeah</b><b>they were they were tougher I think I think that</b><b>side of the family was tougher uh my mom's mom my</b><b>grandma was Swedish yeah I don't know it's a it's</b><b>uh it could be that it could be that too yeah</b><b>I think that's really hard working people yeah</b><b>exactly yeah it could be that too no I think</b><b>that's really fascinating okay so um when you</b><b>were in elementary school so that's when the</b><b>divorce happened yeah I was eight you were eight</b><b>so that's like what third grade I think that's</b><b>third grade third grade third grade third grade</b><b>so your older brother would have been how old</b><b>10 to 10 and a half and then your younger brother</b><b>what kindergarten okay so that's there's three</b><b>in elementary school yeah and now they're going to</b><b>get divorced which again was still not very</b><b>common back then at all that would have been what like</b><b>you were born 76 that's the early 80s it was just</b><b>starting that whole divorce thing um do you have</b><b>memories from that period or um anything that</b><b>stands out during the divorce or how it affected</b><b>your family sure there you know a couple of</b><b>fights we observed that we didn't you know weren't</b><b>great they actually the way they told us was real</b><b>tough um they were in the middle of a really big</b><b>fight we had this uh cool house in Miami Shores</b><b>it was funny I you know it's funny they bought</b><b>this house three months before I was born and</b><b>sold it and I moved out after I graduated high school</b><b>so I lived in the same home for all 18 years</b><b>that's really awesome that's that's cool yeah</b><b>so it was funny I was listening to a song on the</b><b>way here it was about uh you know going back to</b><b>your old home you're not allowed to go in but</b><b>you know but um and I remember we had this playroom</b><b>downstairs and the kitchen was upstairs the</b><b>bedrooms in the playroom were downstairs the</b><b>kitchen living room and all the living space</b><b>was upstairs and they had this big fight in their</b><b>bedroom and they came out into the playroom and</b><b>they're like boys we're getting divorced but it</b><b>was just violent I remember it being violent so</b><b>it was after me yelling yeah their their energy</b><b>everything they were coming right off of</b><b>fight and they told you guys and was that a shock</b><b>yeah for all you guys yeah for sure and then um</b><b>so you your mom and the three of you got to stay</b><b>in the house I assume since you yeah and then</b><b>your dad moved out yeah and then uh was it the</b><b>type of custody situation where you'd see your</b><b>dad like every other weekend yeah like Tuesdays</b><b>Tuesdays Tuesdays and then on the weekends okay</b><b>and then we would it was interesting because he</b><b>would take one of us oh interesting uncertain</b><b>like so my dad and I would uh like you know it was my</b><b>Wednesday and we or Thursdays Thursday</b><b>because cheers we would sit and watch cheers oh okay</b><b>I remember I remember you had this</b><b>apartment this this apartment behind Wendy's at like</b><b>near downtown that's all being it's all</b><b>beautiful condos now right but um yeah and we would sit</b><b>there and it was great like it was sketch getting</b><b>it like walking up to it and um and then we would</b><b>sit there and we watch cheers and we watch</b><b>growing pains and like we like you know I just</b><b>kind of those were the fond memories you know what</b><b>an interesting way to approach that I mean that is</b><b>really cool actually so the week was it the</b><b>weekday he would do one-on-one and then the</b><b>weekends take all three of you yeah that's so</b><b>smart because it allowed him to stay really have</b><b>that quality time with each of you and create</b><b>that bond yeah in a way and then you still had</b><b>that time together but also what a difference</b><b>you're coming from this wonderful home with your</b><b>mom and then going to this different</b><b>environment in your dad's apartment so that it's like two</b><b>different worlds yeah so I think my dad was</b><b>struggling to figure it out and I think my mom</b><b>was always like you can have whatever you want</b><b>days wise and um it was hard for him yeah you know</b><b>a lot of our a lot of our time spent together</b><b>was like let's just go to the mall yeah he didn't</b><b>really know how to spend time with us yeah you</b><b>know I've got a lot of shirts that you know that</b><b>you like making them all yeah right like a little</b><b>choccy right remember that like the little puffy</b><b>yelsey things they would just iron on right in</b><b>front of you yeah a guy had one that said el gato</b><b>because my dad used to call me el gato he like run</b><b>around and called himself el gato so that's what he</b><b>he he had one like that and uh and then um he</b><b>he loved the sail and he had the sailboat and</b><b>um he had this line the line was only admirals</b><b>or assholes sit in uh the stairwell which is why</b><b>where i stood all the time which is why i</b><b>heard that so one christmas i get a shirt ironed on</b><b>whatever called said admiral that's awesome yeah</b><b>so that's like a core memory that's core memory</b><b>yeah do you still have the shirts i don't i</b><b>don't have that one i've got a few from growing up</b><b>actually um i have his polo okay so probably</b><b>the one thing i have yeah yeah that's cool i can</b><b>totally picture what you're saying like i</b><b>can picture them all and i can the amni mall in</b><b>downtown miami which is i don't think it's still</b><b>there but but yeah so that's what you guys around</b><b>and it was like clockwork you'd go there and eat</b><b>play it was almost like you weren't even you know</b><b>i mean it was we overwhelmed him yeah you just</b><b>didn't know what to do three boys three boys all</b><b>spazzy as heck yeah yeah you know yeah so did</b><b>you get to the point where you look forward to that</b><b>like all right i'm going to see dad we're going</b><b>to the mall and i'm getting a shirt i liked the uh</b><b>one-on-ones yeah just to be with him yeah yeah</b><b>100 you know what's cool though is like i played a</b><b>lot of sports he showed up at every game that's</b><b>what i was gonna ask you that was my next question</b><b>he was present it just i think the parenting</b><b>part was hard for him yeah yeah our relationships</b><b>became unbelievable and he was my best friend as</b><b>soon as we could have a beer together yeah yeah</b><b>that makes everything change everything changed</b><b>like when i went to college it was too bad right</b><b>like you listened to those yeah cat stevens type</b><b>songs yes and then he passed away when you were</b><b>25 so you were just just just finding your</b><b>groove with him yeah yeah no that's so in elementary</b><b>school you mentioned sports um in elementary</b><b>school did you do sports through elementary</b><b>school middle school that time yeah so it's fair</b><b>to say that uh so we love sports like all three</b><b>of us really played but um i spent more of my time</b><b>at the fields and uh those guys like i i have let's</b><b>say the father figures in my life were coaches</b><b>along the way and i really believe that those</b><b>each one of them played roles in my life</b><b>in different ways maybe not all of them but</b><b>i could name certain coaches along the way</b><b>that just had a massive impact on my life</b><b>that's cool what's right i would live it i would</b><b>live at the field house miami shores is a really</b><b>cool town that way was it baseball uh baseball</b><b>up until the day it turned into soccer soccer</b><b>into the day you know so it was uh as ago it goes</b><b>uh football soccer baseball okay and that was like</b><b>your year like to the day it stopped you start</b><b>the next one yeah and i mean and i did overlaps</b><b>like one team was finishing and i would i would</b><b>go to another i would do two practices a day okay</b><b>two different sports as they overlapped so you</b><b>completely immerse yourself into immersed now uh</b><b>that obviously was for a love of sports was it</b><b>also do you think like you said you had father</b><b>figures there do you think it was a way of</b><b>coping i think so yeah remember my grandfather wasn't</b><b>there either yeah my grandfather had passed before</b><b>so i never got to meet him yeah uh so there really</b><b>wasn't a father figure my dad was there very</b><b>present but um yeah i think it was i think it's</b><b>coaches were you able to have um more intimate</b><b>conversations with your coaches and you were with</b><b>your dad meaning sharing emotions feelings any of</b><b>that nope so it's just more they were solid male</b><b>figures yeah in your life and people you could look</b><b>up to and leaders yeah for you yeah i'm not shy to</b><b>tell someone what's going on in my head or you</b><b>know share with folks so i always reached i was</b><b>always kind of like reach out and whether it be</b><b>school or sports or whatever always found myself</b><b>around good adults that yeah you know just kind</b><b>of said hey i'll i'll help you out and then how</b><b>about with your teammates did was it like with</b><b>all of your teams was it like a family almost yeah</b><b>yeah so big parties and you know all the same</b><b>guys i'm still very close to so many of them now</b><b>very close so so two of my like two of my best</b><b>friends i've known since i was eight and nine</b><b>years old that's awesome were your were your</b><b>sports where you kind of in football you had the</b><b>same guys then you go to soccer and you have</b><b>the same guys then you go to baseball very much</b><b>season after season yeah that's how wyoming</b><b>shores is yeah yeah it was it's the best town now it's</b><b>best town to grow up in was this right would</b><b>you say this is the equivalent of like a wreck</b><b>yeah oh yeah and then did you do any travel was</b><b>travel thing there at that time um we did some</b><b>travel there were a couple of players that just</b><b>kind of decided to focus those guys got put on</b><b>a unique they would go to other town like go</b><b>down to kendall and play with some better teams</b><b>soccer and those guys really escalated those</b><b>guys played in college they're really good um</b><b>i did more high school okay that's where i my my</b><b>journey got more athletic well i think for those</b><b>of us growing up though travel wasn't like how it</b><b>is now it wasn't it was like you said it was those</b><b>few kids and now it's almost it's reversed it is</b><b>it you know it still takes money no matter what</b><b>like even back then a couple of my friends that</b><b>got really good at soccer like their parents were</b><b>able to afford them having some private lessons</b><b>on the side yeah yeah i actually i remember this</b><b>window where i had a chance to play i'm like a</b><b>tweener birthday and so a couple of my friends were</b><b>on the older side a couple of my friends on the</b><b>younger side so i had a choice like do you want</b><b>to play with the twelves or the thirteenths i</b><b>remember that being a really hard choice and</b><b>going all right i'll play with the twelves because</b><b>i had a few more friends even though i could play</b><b>with the thirteenths if i would have gone to</b><b>the thirteenths it my level would have escalated</b><b>because they had a better coach and they had a</b><b>better everything and they really all when's your</b><b>birthday feb feb right okay is there well i know that they always are changing the</b><b>the birthdays and they're always restructuring i</b><b>was a tweener too but it was august for so i could</b><b>i did the same thing yeah yeah so in</b><b>elementary middle school was it mainly sports were you</b><b>involved in anything any other extra</b><b>curriculars like clubs in elementary and elementary middle</b><b>elementary middle theater always my theater</b><b>okay okay so when did you get involved in theater</b><b>um fairly young i think my mom took me to go see</b><b>phantom of the opera i love phantom of the opera</b><b>fell in love um love it brian's even been</b><b>really in broadway it's the very first one i've seen</b><b>yeah i saw it down in miami did i've seen</b><b>okay so this is a funny story um for one of our</b><b>anniversaries we went and saw phantom of the opera</b><b>on broadway i i drug him to uh or dragged whatever</b><b>it is to phantom of the opera yeah maybe i drug</b><b>andre so we want we go through the you know the</b><b>first half or whatever and then there's the</b><b>intermission right so we get the intermission</b><b>starts where the lights go on and he gets up to</b><b>leave and i'm like like leave for good and i said</b><b>no it's just intermission and very loudly in</b><b>his very deep voice goes you mean there's more and</b><b>it echoed through the whole place people turn</b><b>and it turned around and looked at us that was</b><b>the only time i did that with him really but</b><b>he did see all of phantom of the opera i can't</b><b>believe you don't remember i i do now that you</b><b>say that yeah i remember i you yeah i think you</b><b>blocked it out yeah i wasn't hooked no you</b><b>weren't as hooked as i was no so you saw phantom of the</b><b>opera my mom had me in that stuff well</b><b>actually it was funny because i remember i mean i was</b><b>playing football either seventh eighth grade i</b><b>remember going from football practice to it and</b><b>i thought i was going to fall asleep like i was</b><b>fighting it so that was fighting and then i was</b><b>like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's so</b><b>amazing i had been doing some simple church like theater</b><b>before that okay whatever okay it wasn't</b><b>until um until i got in high school that i got</b><b>really immersed in it okay so what an interesting</b><b>existence for you oh yeah because you're athletic</b><b>and the jock quote unquote captain of the football</b><b>team okay okay okay yeah small school don't get me</b><b>wrong okay okay so you get to high school and</b><b>you're doing high school sports and high school</b><b>theater both of those things require a lot of</b><b>commitment on top of academics yep did you work too</b><b>no okay so that summers yes hardcore in the</b><b>summers but my you know my dad kind of had that</b><b>statement that it was always like you're</b><b>either going to be in school like you're going to do</b><b>these extracurriculars or you're going to work</b><b>those are your choices yeah well those extracurriculars</b><b>especially doing theater and academics would</b><b>take up and academics and athletics would take up</b><b>everything if you want to even try to get some</b><b>sleep in there somewhere it was crazy so that's</b><b>my question though is i don't know how it was set</b><b>up but i would have pictured theater practice and</b><b>athletic practice would have been around the</b><b>same time after school it was complex and i had some</b><b>amazing teachers and coaches that worked with</b><b>me that's amazing that is awesome yeah so because</b><b>was theater year-round practicing no it was more</b><b>um in some respects but it was more play-based too</b><b>okay so like the real work in theater for me at</b><b>least was at the play you could take it as a class</b><b>and so i would do that but then but then also</b><b>like when we're in a play it required a lot of</b><b>attention so what did you lean into in theater</b><b>like were you singing were you dancing were you</b><b>you know uh in high school it was all straight</b><b>plays okay i can't sing okay um although there's</b><b>a funny story about that but but i can't so</b><b>anyway i did all straight plays i really enjoyed it</b><b>uh i had a great teacher named sandy louis who</b><b>was just absolutely spectacular woman and um and</b><b>she was great like so i'd spent so much time</b><b>even my senior year she created a class for me</b><b>and called directing and i just got to direct her</b><b>so i would go to the middle school class and then</b><b>i got to direct him in a school play it was just</b><b>special it was really cool experience growing up</b><b>that's awesome around those types of teachers</b><b>and they they they hooked me up so so what kind</b><b>of plays do you remember what plays you did we</b><b>did mash jekyll and hide am i mixing that one up</b><b>yeah that one um man mash was probably one of</b><b>my favorites that's cool that's one of brian's</b><b>favorite shows is it yeah well doing the play was</b><b>cool yeah um and just a lot of like one x and and</b><b>shoebox stuff very cool and that was mainly high</b><b>school yeah um okay and then you were the captain</b><b>of the football team the soccer team so it</b><b>sounds like you were a leader on the athletic side</b><b>were you also a leader in the theater side</b><b>too you know i uh i don't think so um i was</b><b>courageous enough to hop into whatever they</b><b>wanted to hop into but but i wasn't really a</b><b>leader per se there were some people that just</b><b>you could tell loved it i love it yeah but like</b><b>there's some people i have a feeling there you</b><b>probably had some leadership qualities because</b><b>of crossing over from sports right and you were</b><b>the captain of those teams then you had to been</b><b>somewhat of a novelty in some ways in that</b><b>we've got this athlete coming over to theater that's</b><b>not totally common so you probably had a</b><b>natural leadership maybe not i don't know prescribed i</b><b>guess yeah i mean i've had some teachers call</b><b>it that like at this school i mean there was a a</b><b>guidance counselor who who had said like there</b><b>were a couple things she was like you're just a</b><b>natural born leader yeah remember that and it</b><b>stayed with me you know core memory um because i</b><b>you know it was weird i i was in i was in like a</b><b>lot of the honors classes so i would spend a lot</b><b>of time with really techie nerdy guys which is</b><b>great you know and i could i could get along with</b><b>those guys i'm fairly gregarious i can get along</b><b>with a lot of different people and um so i would</b><b>hang out with them but then i'd go to football</b><b>practice and hang out with all my jock buddies</b><b>and then i or i'd go to theater and hang out with</b><b>all the theater people and i i i just think that's</b><b>the way i guess for me that was easy because i</b><b>was like this is great you just yeah who cares</b><b>they're all different but it doesn't matter</b><b>yeah and each one of them has something special and</b><b>fun and enjoyable and i loved my jock friends</b><b>for who they were yeah and i love the theater</b><b>people for who they were and just great friends</b><b>on all sides of it but back then and i think you</b><b>i don't know about now if it's that way and i</b><b>don't know if it was like this at your school it wasn't</b><b>mine it was very clicky yeah and there were</b><b>groups and um it definitely would have taken a special</b><b>person to float the way you did and be accepted</b><b>and not ostracized by one of the groups or judge</b><b>i i think yes and i found myself able to break</b><b>through that piece of it but i think the deep</b><b>relationships were a little bit more on the</b><b>sports side okay you know like where so those people</b><b>like oh yeah like you know he's cool come on in</b><b>he's fine but then there's a gate do you know what</b><b>i mean yes so there's a big gate like there's</b><b>the wall okay and no one's allowed in but you cross</b><b>through the wall yeah that's okay yeah then there's</b><b>another private room and i wasn't invited into the</b><b>private room right i also made a choice in high</b><b>school um i think because of this guidance counselor</b><b>you know driving me in this in this which was we</b><b>created uh an organization called leaders educating</b><b>about drugs lead so i ran that in high school</b><b>which is hysterically ironic because i got it once</b><b>i got out of high school it's like what are these</b><b>things right well what moment besides the leadership</b><b>being inspired by the leadership aspect of it</b><b>what drew you to focus on drugs i think that was uh</b><b>you know i think school kind of guided that</b><b>more than i was like i'm gonna be this guy i i just</b><b>think i was uh making teachers happy okay you</b><b>know what i mean i really do i think that's core</b><b>too it was like hey i love this teacher hey</b><b>they think this is great okay okay i'll do that and</b><b>that kept me out of a couple circles right right</b><b>now of course of course people who are still like</b><b>hey man he's cool yes except we're gonna close</b><b>the door now right like the narc is here and it</b><b>wasn't an arc like i was like listen i don't</b><b>care if you do it like i really wasn't but you know</b><b>wasn't like i don't care if you do it like i'm</b><b>cool it's not my thing yeah um but i didn't care</b><b>if you did it however it was really designed</b><b>like the the whole premise of the thing was just to</b><b>educate better yeah about there are dangers right</b><b>and it wasn't this like full-on nancy rayon like</b><b>yeah it was more just about education which i</b><b>think you know when you go to a small private school</b><b>uh drug dealers are smart right they're</b><b>businessmen they they know where the money is so you actually</b><b>have i think a lot of it comes to the smaller</b><b>private schools more so than the best drugs are</b><b>in all private schools if you're good at</b><b>business you go to where the highest paying customers</b><b>we didn't establish that so you were in a small</b><b>private high school yeah small private high school</b><b>was your elementary and middle schools private as well no so i went to public school for elementary</b><b>no so i went to public school for elementary okay and then catholic school</b><b>for for for three years okay and then i jumped to</b><b>the private school for like seven through twelve</b><b>and you said you got a scholarship yeah like the</b><b>Presbyterian church helped out and then there was</b><b>like some scholarship money my mom couldn't</b><b>afford to send me that so i we we were able to</b><b>find money through the church and through the</b><b>school what was the motivation of wanting to go</b><b>to that school mom did mom's like let's get</b><b>you the best school we can get no just me what</b><b>what do you why are you why just you do you know</b><b>um you know i don't uh i don't have a clear answer</b><b>on it i just think that uh i was i think my mom</b><b>knew that i i would excel you were the overachiever</b><b>out of the three yeah maybe that's the way to say</b><b>it were you a people please but my younger brother</b><b>it got more it got tricky so Miami Shore's got</b><b>redistrict and then like what happens your choices</b><b>were Miami Shore's elementary was great whatever</b><b>i rode my bike school that's like the majority of</b><b>my life right like yeah ride my bike school stop</b><b>at grandma's nana's on the way home have a cookie</b><b>you know like do do do my homework like it was</b><b>yeah it was amazing like when you really think</b><b>about it yeah it's super nice my buddy who lived</b><b>six streets down would pick me up in his and his</b><b>prelude prelude i was like late every time he's</b><b>like dude you're killing me he's still one of my</b><b>best buds like these you know it's so beautiful</b><b>it's like i know so many people from this town</b><b>who are all still really close in fact my</b><b>wife's from the town oh okay yeah and i know friends</b><b>whose wives are from this town okay so i guess</b><b>okay miami shore's has that cool vibe to it that's</b><b>cool yeah really growing up in miami shores</b><b>there's like a facebook page what are its what</b><b>are the demographics of miami shores is it</b><b>is it cuban atallian for the most part it was</b><b>i mean primarily irish catholic a lot of irish</b><b>catholic um i think joe robbie i don't know this</b><b>but like joe robbie lived in miami shores okay</b><b>and then he helped build when he was building</b><b>johlrabi like a lot of the construction guys from</b><b>the town yeah okay and so and he owned the dolphins</b><b>okay yeah and so anyway yeah irish catholic</b><b>there some italian but but definitely the catholic</b><b>church was strong like like the catholic church</b><b>in miami shore is pretty strong church so you said</b><b>though a redistrict for your little brother oh and</b><b>so and so what happened was like my choice was this</b><b>new magnet program school and it was tough like</b><b>it was it was a rough place to go so i think that</b><b>if you really look at it like my mom's like okay</b><b>let's send him to the catholic church let's see</b><b>then my parents got divorced my dad was catholic</b><b>my mom was presbyterian yeah so it's really funny</b><b>when the divorce happened i would go to presbyterian church on sunday with my mom</b><b>and then get in my bike drive to the catholic</b><b>church and put an envelope with money into the</b><b>giving box to prove i was there to tithe yeah</b><b>that was to tithe yes but to prove i was there</b><b>like i was really like yeah yeah it wasn't</b><b>yeah yeah so and it was really funny like that</b><b>was my sunday were you were you covering for the</b><b>whole family the tithing yeah yeah yeah yeah uh</b><b>because my older brother went there too okay and</b><b>then he went to north miami high so he ended up</b><b>going to the local high school oh wait i think i</b><b>know what you're saying so you guys were going to</b><b>school at the time at catholic school yeah that</b><b>was oh yeah so we part of the way our kids went to</b><b>catholic school and yeah you have to prove you</b><b>were there hell yeah i see what you're saying so you</b><b>oh at church you mean it yeah yeah you cannot</b><b>go to church yeah yeah so one way or another</b><b>you were there you're gonna purchase as long as there's money in that envelope</b><b>and it's on time you're golden you're good so you</b><b>would go to church so you went to you were raised</b><b>presbyterian it sounds like yeah so i always joke</b><b>i went from religion by fear to religion by service</b><b>oh my gosh that's a terrible thing to say that's</b><b>hilarious so and that was that pretty much every</b><b>sunday yeah so you would do that and then get on</b><b>your bike and go take care of the catholic church</b><b>yeah you're oh that's so interesting okay but</b><b>you also got a lot of good catholic uh values</b><b>at school of course right you had class yeah yeah</b><b>and i was so i was i was baptized catholic i was</b><b>confirmed presbyterian interesting interesting</b><b>okay so you went through the whole um your first</b><b>communion catholic yes okay so you were baptized</b><b>catholic first communion catholic then reconciliation</b><b>probably during school time that's around</b><b>the same yeah you would have if you were first</b><b>communion you went through reconciliation</b><b>confession your first confession yeah first</b><b>confession yeah yeah there's our dogs everyone</b><b>that was um four six yeah well i see for our kids</b><b>first communion was second grade um and</b><b>and reconciliation was i think first grade or</b><b>third grade so yeah okay so you did the</b><b>first three sacraments of catholicism baptism yes</b><b>reconciliation communion but but then for confirmation you didn't finish it out you</b><b>went with presbyterian and i didn't even know they</b><b>did confirmation either that's what i was thinking</b><b>yeah that's news to me so what are you because</b><b>you could it's like it's just a dual citizenship</b><b>i guess the way the way what am i i believe in</b><b>god yeah i pray yeah i'm not a great church goer</b><b>yeah so you have dual citizenship into churches</b><b>in religion yeah in religion you can you kind of</b><b>dabbled in both i i think that's so</b><b>fascinating okay so um you said you were high you're high</b><b>cheaper it's obvious you were high cheaper um</b><b>were you also a people pleaser would you say yeah</b><b>and would you say um you walked on eggshells no</b><b>okay so you were a people pleaser high achiever</b><b>but you you weren't nervous about being like</b><b>that if that makes sense you weren't walking</b><b>on eggshells making sure kind of kind of trying</b><b>to read the adults before you act to kind of yeah</b><b>every now and again every now and again i</b><b>would get careful my so like my mom like five of my</b><b>mom's good friends worked at the school okay my</b><b>dad dated the dean of students like it every now</b><b>and it's like one of my like my best friend</b><b>mike he'll do this whole time we would be in school</b><b>and when my dad was dating the dean of students</b><b>he'd be like joe yeah we can do anything like he</b><b>literally he took advantage of this idea that we</b><b>walked on water because he was like a fourth son</b><b>to my dad and he took advantage of the walk on</b><b>water not that we i mean we're we're good kids</b><b>like we didn't really break that many rules so</b><b>broke simple rules right you know like nothing</b><b>kid shit kid shit yeah and uh and there were you</b><b>know in Miami stores there were other kids doing</b><b>worship so you know it's easy to stay off the</b><b>radar well and you weren't partying no and like</b><b>even my my you're so funny like my mom used to</b><b>have this rule in high school she would be like</b><b>um you're allowed to go out but you gotta wake me</b><b>up when you come home so i know that you were in</b><b>the house before before uh curfew and so i</b><b>would go out and then i'd come home late army crawl</b><b>into her bedroom set the clock back no way</b><b>totally wake her up she'd look at the clock</b><b>got it and then army crawl out and then army</b><b>crawl back in and reset the clock to the right time</b><b>was this a digital or like yeah digital oh yeah</b><b>okay so red ones yeah the red ones it was the brown</b><b>the brown right you know talking about the word</b><b>that's exactly what it was that is so gen x oh</b><b>i remember that so much i used to do that so</b><b>often that's brilliant yeah that really that i</b><b>love that that's genius did she know that before</b><b>you said it on this podcast she'll see it when i've</b><b>told yes okay i think i've told her at uh like a</b><b>thanksgiving dinner or something we've had some</b><b>fun fun stories of glasses of wine yeah i love</b><b>it okay so high school so you're busy you're busy</b><b>you're achieving you're doing all the things</b><b>great for me okay your world though is it sounds like</b><b>it's pretty small there right you're doing all</b><b>this stuff but it's a small world you're living in</b><b>super interesting brian because you know you</b><b>you're in miami yeah i had friends going down to south</b><b>beach this and that but my like my i was more of a</b><b>home and i don't know if you'd call it a home body</b><b>but like i stayed in the shores yeah shores is</b><b>safe to me right i think but i married my wife</b><b>from the area like i i do believe that one home</b><b>thing i've thought about this like because you</b><b>meet someone who's been in like six homes in</b><b>their journey and they've got weird connection issues</b><b>right like they don't you know like there's</b><b>something fragile dude like i have a friend</b><b>who's had so many homes yes it just was what it</b><b>was right and they struggle to connect whereas</b><b>me i'm like this this is perfect in fact my</b><b>neighborhood my wife and i were looking for the</b><b>place we wanted to live the neighborhood we found</b><b>is like everyone walks their dog everyone is like</b><b>in there riding their bike everybody waves to</b><b>each other it's a small little microcosm of miami</b><b>shores and that's like it's so hard to come by</b><b>in yes in this area of the country south florida</b><b>well it's the reason we picked the neighborhood</b><b>we're in yeah um people are walking i'm not going</b><b>to say the name of the neighborhood on on</b><b>the podcast but um this neighborhood we're in</b><b>is the closest you can get to 1950s living as</b><b>far as walk the neighborhood any time of the day</b><b>it's very it's very much that northeast vibe</b><b>if that northeast small town vibe sure sure so</b><b>it is hard to find down here so it sounds</b><b>like you grew up in a small town in miami yeah</b><b>absolutely which is awesome in a single house</b><b>in a single house very small town and even though</b><b>though there was the chaos of a divorce and you</b><b>went through that typical like divorce kid and</b><b>there's shit that went with that you know but</b><b>you you had the stability of your town your home</b><b>your coaches your teachers yeah your</b><b>activities and it sounds like that helped balance out</b><b>the trauma that you also would have gone through</b><b>with the divorce because no matter what no matter</b><b>how good things are that's still a traumatic</b><b>event for i'm a child of divorce i know i'm talking</b><b>about um i'm just out of like three or four</b><b>divorces i think um so it's it's wonderful you</b><b>had that anchor yeah of the functionality to</b><b>go with the dysfunction that would have just</b><b>naturally resulted from divorce yeah my brothers weren't as active and i think</b><b>it was harder on them yeah no that makes sense</b><b>you know and by the way that might have just been</b><b>that might have just been the way i dealt is i</b><b>surround myself in groups yeah you know and um</b><b>because i've either developed that over time you</b><b>know like i team sports is to me one of the most</b><b>wonderful things you can do to your your kids like</b><b>team sports is great you know you learn so much by</b><b>the way acting is team sports absolutely it's</b><b>incredible yeah i mean if you've ever sat in a</b><b>green room or gone to the practices and the</b><b>amount of support practice trial and error things like</b><b>that that you need in teams in acting is incredible</b><b>and trust trust trust is huge real trust yeah yeah</b><b>it's funny i talked about that today with my team</b><b>yeah use that reference yeah acting yeah because</b><b>in acting you're also being very vulnerable and so</b><b>it's different than the kind of trust on a sports</b><b>team because that's trust too yeah but it's</b><b>very different so it sounds like you were insulated</b><b>with these activities i would say that right</b><b>that's why i always felt like hey bokeh we're</b><b>tone feels like it's 200 miles away yeah i mean</b><b>i didn't do the south beach thing yeah that much</b><b>i really didn't look people like oh did you go to</b><b>this and this and i'm like i guess i'm kind of a</b><b>dork i didn't go to that many of those things</b><b>and well and you were living a fairly responsible</b><b>life for a teenager even though you were doing the</b><b>army crawl and change in the clock but you weren't</b><b>out there partying and yeah the real trouble i got</b><b>into was like we egged a car you know turns out it</b><b>was an undercover cop guard yeah he showed up at</b><b>that like that kind of stuff and so you know we</b><b>are fair share of oopses but yeah but mom never</b><b>really i don't think mom ever worried yeah yeah</b><b>that's amazing that's amazing you know so i'm</b><b>getting towards mid end of high school did you</b><b>were you already thinking about college and</b><b>where you wanted to go uh not where i wanted to go</b><b>too much but i was definitely thinking about</b><b>college um it was kind of like i qualified for</b><b>the florida undergraduate scholars program i</b><b>think is what it was called at the time um so</b><b>state schools were always an option i applied to</b><b>tulane was the only other school i don't even know</b><b>why really i've never never really thought like</b><b>how did tulane end up in my list but at my school</b><b>they had you know pretty good a really good</b><b>actually not a pretty good a really good uh</b><b>college guidance counselor who helped you through</b><b>things and maybe that's where we ended up with it</b><b>um and then i got a couple of uh a couple</b><b>letters more than anything else of like interest for</b><b>college football but i was just super burnt out</b><b>okay it's so weird playing being able to play all</b><b>three sports which is like the good and the bad</b><b>is like it's like i was pretty good at all of them</b><b>because i didn't focus i wasn't great at any of</b><b>them okay okay and so i loved soccer but you are</b><b>either born with gifts in your feet or you're</b><b>not right it's just as that way and i was and i was</b><b>pretty darn good but you know not necessarily</b><b>like that next level because you have to play it</b><b>against people that are just different yeah</b><b>so football was what i was best at and um and i</b><b>often think like what would happen if i would have</b><b>gone to a small school in north carolina on a on a</b><b>football scholarship but ultimately i couldn't</b><b>afford tulane that was not a there's no happening</b><b>and it was like had four or five good friends all</b><b>going to florida and said sign me up when i have</b><b>a question on this when today kids playing sports</b><b>have they they have to specialize down here and it</b><b>drives me crazy because they don't they can't do</b><b>the three sports they can to a certain point but</b><b>then the travel team set in right the kids who</b><b>specialize come back and just wreck everybody</b><b>you know and wreck was it like that when you</b><b>were growing up was it was it specialized were you</b><b>forced to pick something earlier it doesn't</b><b>sound like it it sounds like you could play but</b><b>like three sports i mean here's reality like even</b><b>though uh even though i didn't specialize it was</b><b>still you have top 10 of my team yeah so there</b><b>was there was happy they were just yeah i'm just</b><b>just like so they were just happy to have me right</b><b>yeah good eye hand coordination fast yeah you know</b><b>those types of things and and in football i love</b><b>hitting people it was like reckless i i won't use</b><b>the nickname because it'll be you know whatever</b><b>but like i had a nickname like it started when i</b><b>was like seven years old and stuck with me and</b><b>like it was just because i was a reckless you know</b><b>what position did you play in football i played</b><b>uh sort of uh running back a receiver you know</b><b>and then but i love playing more like safety and</b><b>linebacker i was gonna say i could picture you as</b><b>a safety just coming up and popping someone just</b><b>mowing like i called like we had uh me and this</b><b>other guy called to stick him and pick him you</b><b>know and he would go get interceptions i would</b><b>just wreck people that's hilarious so i i don't</b><b>know why but like growing up playing football my</b><b>whole life i had some great coaches um like they</b><b>just said this is how you hit people and this is</b><b>and and and they said and it's safer to do it</b><b>that way and that's all i needed to know so for me i</b><b>was always about applying the force yeah you</b><b>know yeah like the one time i did it under 85s</b><b>we had some coaches and i hit this guy on the</b><b>side there's a whole place lit up and i was like</b><b>that's all that that was the only affirmation i</b><b>needed and ever since then it just you know it</b><b>was simple to me like that that was the easy like</b><b>let's just go hit people this is great and i felt</b><b>protected i got pads on yeah yeah yeah and you</b><b>know it's crazy not one injury that's amazing not</b><b>even a concussion well i don't know about that</b><b>you know what i mean we don't talk about that</b><b>so i had my uh one game i got hit in the back and</b><b>then hit across the helmet and my jaw dislocated</b><b>like this and i'm like i come to the sidelines</b><b>and you know you're you're in small school we only</b><b>had like 25 kids on the team i went i played i</b><b>played receiver or you know receiver or or or</b><b>running back except when the quarterback got</b><b>hurt then i played quarterback i played full-time</b><b>defense i kicked hunted returned kicks</b><b>returned punts so never once left the field never once</b><b>and so i get hit and i come to the sideline like</b><b>oh my god and hurting and they're like what here</b><b>sit down and there was this doctor came down off</b><b>the the bench and he's like let me look at it he</b><b>just ran right back into place smacked me on</b><b>my ass and i went right back out there hilarious</b><b>hilarious my mom and i went like the next</b><b>couple days like mom this i'm not really it's not all</b><b>together you know but that was it man like you</b><b>know did you ever go to a doctor and have it yeah</b><b>yeah that seems okay my mom was like jen is for</b><b>god's sakes my grandfather was a dentist that's awesome</b><b>that is so gen x2 no one cared yeah like dad get</b><b>back out there are you kidding now they call an</b><b>ambulance or something back then we had the</b><b>smelling salts too yeah the concussion you're</b><b>like i'm back in i can't see straight yeah oh</b><b>i'm good yeah i'm good yeah yeah so okay for sure</b><b>and i like you know i played against some guys</b><b>that played on sundays yeah and they were just</b><b>bigger yeah so you could throw your body at</b><b>someone and exert force until physics wins</b><b>yeah and i ran into a knee once that just was</b><b>like where am i yeah right now so there's definitely</b><b>i was gonna say that sounds like you bring</b><b>cells that are no longer they call it you you would</b><b>ring your i got my bell but i got your bell yeah</b><b>now now they it's a whole thing like it's totally</b><b>different so our son does travel across and even</b><b>playing for the school you have to sign all these</b><b>things and he has to watch a video about it's</b><b>totally well they do preseason tests they do all</b><b>of it did you know about that that whole</b><b>protocol for concussion no oh yeah you do a test in the</b><b>beginning you answer questions and then if you</b><b>think you've got concuss they you have to answer</b><b>the same questions and if your answers deviate or</b><b>the timing's off too much that right it's pretty</b><b>good actually it's smart yeah it's smart like</b><b>i like that process no no it's good driven yeah</b><b>100 yeah that's what that's what appeals to</b><b>me right this is my data driven stuff makes me</b><b>right yeah okay so um as far as college though</b><b>i assume because your grandmother and your mom</b><b>were so progressive in that thought process</b><b>college was was discussed in your home it was</b><b>assumed you were going to college okay so that's</b><b>cool so um and you had a great guidance counselor</b><b>which is unusual even for that time so that's</b><b>awesome yeah um but so you ended up going to uf</b><b>yeah and uh did you did your brother and</b><b>little brother go to college too uh older brother no</b><b>um he actually came up to that area and went to um</b><b>what is the community college santa fae community</b><b>and then be and that was studying to be a</b><b>firefighter that didn't work out and then um my younger brother</b><b>no um</b><b>his journey was just a little different yeah he</b><b>has since you know he says in in saint pea went to</b><b>saint pea college and got a degree but it was like</b><b>way it wasn't like high school and then big break</b><b>okay so out of the three you were the traditional</b><b>graduate from high school four years in and out bye bye</b><b>i wondered you know it just got me thinking is</b><b>the age and when your parents got divorced your</b><b>older brother was a little bit older yeah little</b><b>different experience yeah and you got you and you</b><b>got the younger one a little bit little different</b><b>yeah you think that played in totally yeah i think</b><b>about that but i so my younger brother had a</b><b>weird weird thing because my mom was like i don't want</b><b>to send him to that school we were talking about</b><b>she sent him to palm beach to live with my aunt</b><b>and uncle her aunt and uncle actually so that</b><b>was kind of like my brother's or our great aunt and</b><b>uncle okay they took care of him for like two</b><b>years and he went to school up there two three</b><b>years and then like poor guy man just the</b><b>journey was tough he's so resilient he's like he's just</b><b>got this beautiful way about him you know like</b><b>it never he's like yeah but um and then she moved</b><b>like out of the house out of the house and he's</b><b>a like for his sophomore year he's got to move to</b><b>like middle of nowhere north tampa like country</b><b>fighting it wow fighting it you know and like that</b><b>was i think that was hard really hard you talk</b><b>about like not fitting in at all it's different</b><b>over there totally right and they are</b><b>immediately like harsh yeah harsh and pick on and all this</b><b>and like you know anything that he would do</b><b>that would have been let's say a cool kind of</b><b>mannerism or whatever here was just crushed</b><b>there he ended up like two years there and</b><b>and and then coming back to my dad but like</b><b>i'm coming to back stay with my dad but i'm like</b><b>separated from all this because you were in</b><b>college right i'm in college yeah and the weird</b><b>part is you don't have a home to go home to yeah</b><b>i don't know what's so i'm gonna i'm going to like</b><b>newport richie oh true true middle of nowhere</b><b>west florida when did she sell it was it your</b><b>freshman year she sold the the literally pack</b><b>the car pack the the house drive to the new home</b><b>which is because she got a job at this school</b><b>system unload the home love you college okay</b><b>what a transition for you so right so i know where</b><b>to come home to but also my dad had a one bedroom</b><b>yeah so it's not like my dad there's like one</b><b>bedroom apartment was like like two twin beds</b><b>well what's so interesting about that timing</b><b>is you you had a couple things going on because</b><b>graduated from high school is a big deal and</b><b>then getting ready did you do um that thing that's</b><b>florida kids do where you go the summer session</b><b>no okay no so you had your summer to kind of enjoy</b><b>work being miami shores but knowing that you're</b><b>going to be moving so you're having a transition</b><b>of leaving your childhood home your childhood</b><b>friends everything you've known so those are</b><b>two big things you're leaving and you're going to</b><b>college yeah um and then go to the new place and</b><b>then continue on to gainsville it's a lot going</b><b>on there yeah that's a lot and yeah my mom wants</b><b>to come home and visit you're like there's</b><b>nothing well yeah because a lot of times also that first</b><b>thanksgiving a freshman year when you come home</b><b>you get together with all your friends it's all</b><b>about your friends when you first come home yeah</b><b>didn't know a soul so that was a blow for you and</b><b>then your little brother's going through his own</b><b>thing and i'm sure your older brother was going</b><b>through his own thing um do you think that having</b><b>because also that stability that you had insulated</b><b>yourself with to help you cope with</b><b>everything you've been going through with the divorce</b><b>that was gone now so now you have this new</b><b>experience at uf would you say that you then</b><b>created a whole installation there with</b><b>friends and yeah totally i mean i mean it's crazy but</b><b>three of my closest friends at uf were from my</b><b>high school that's awesome yeah so that kind of</b><b>came with you yeah totally it kind of came with</b><b>you that comfort came with you so did you live</b><b>with them in the dorms um i lived with not my</b><b>first semester my second semester i lived with one</b><b>of them in the dorms oh so you changed dorms</b><b>mid-year no i did i literally moved next door</b><b>me and my roommate okay we need to work it along</b><b>it was okay i mean we ended up being fraternity</b><b>brothers but we still didn't get along that well</b><b>right it wasn't a fun living situation yeah you</b><b>can be friends with someone but not be able to</b><b>live with them that's totally you don't know it</b><b>at the time you don't well you don't right so you</b><b>moved in with someone you didn't know first semester</b><b>next door to my two three buds from high school</b><b>who who who did a threesome in there and then had</b><b>it like a loft put in and like did some really</b><b>cool thing and then two of them were like hey</b><b>one of them's dad was like hey i bought you a</b><b>house you go there and so they're like later and</b><b>my one buddy's like i can't afford you know to</b><b>pay rent or anything yeah so he's like you want to</b><b>move in with me and so they had this decked out</b><b>yeah it was great that's amazing they could leave</b><b>i know and that was a fun other half of the</b><b>first year i'm sure we had a great me and me and my</b><b>buddy we had a great time i'm sure and the fact</b><b>they could leave though because i think at fsu</b><b>you have you have to live maybe not anymore</b><b>there used to be well we went to college you did</b><b>you had to live i think it was one semester yeah</b><b>yeah i think that was the right you had to at least</b><b>do something like that okay so you're at uf and</b><b>second semester's looking good yeah it's enjoyable</b><b>yeah yeah um and then during the holidays you'd</b><b>go home to this new town yeah summers yeah and</b><b>holidays for the new town i made one friend that</b><b>lived generally but it was still like 40 minute</b><b>drive from my mom's it was it was and then the</b><b>summers who were you saying gainesville in the</b><b>summer stay in gainesville if you my first my</b><b>freshman year summer i came down and i live with</b><b>my dad and he's like tiny apartment in the</b><b>middle of nowhere uh and that was funny you know</b><b>um and we'd play racquetball that was like</b><b>what we would we like we'd go to the racquetball</b><b>course we'd play a lot of racquetball um and then</b><b>i'd go hang out with a bunch of buddies we'd play</b><b>poker you know three or four nights a week go</b><b>out occasionally but no one really had any money</b><b>yeah you know so you're kind of working scraping</b><b>together what have you but you know we all came</b><b>from working class families that that you know</b><b>there wasn't extra so you didn't work through</b><b>high school because of the extracurriculars</b><b>um right what was your first job a summer job</b><b>being a camp counselor was my first job and that</b><b>was in miami shores yeah for the church okay and</b><b>then when you came back down that summer and lived</b><b>with your dad did you work then yes so i got a job</b><b>at the hospital uh in admissions what's funny is</b><b>my senior year is the funny job the most interesting</b><b>job i think it was just before my senior</b><b>year okay so i didn't share this part is really</b><b>interesting so my mom being a dental hygienist had</b><b>realized that she could excuse me um when she was</b><b>a teacher she still was a dental hygienist and</b><b>she realized she could in the summers go to juneau</b><b>alaska and get paid a ransom yeah to be a</b><b>dentist to be a dental hygienist so she left her boys</b><b>how old were you guys uh maybe 18 16 and then</b><b>she took the youngest so your little brother</b><b>also went to alaska yeah for a summer yeah</b><b>see the best where did you where did you stay</b><b>that can we have at our house she left us in the</b><b>house way through parties at 16 and 18 year old</b><b>like your your sophomore your sophomore i think</b><b>it was junior and senior okay if i if i try to</b><b>piece together remember how we said i can't yeah</b><b>yeah everything makes it gets me mad but 16 yeah</b><b>16 would be like beginning in junior year february</b><b>did you stop your anti-drug crusade at that point</b><b>to have the parties well let's put it this way um</b><b>i was educating yes but and being educated but i</b><b>still really i still did not smoke until i got</b><b>to college yeah not once till i got to college and</b><b>i was surrounded by people who are like yeah</b><b>totally and my brother liked to throw the parties</b><b>back then half the kids from miami shores went</b><b>to one high school the other went to the other</b><b>high school there were fights or fights in my</b><b>lawn my one of my best friends his dad came over he's</b><b>like oh right around like my dad i'd get like it</b><b>was my dad was supposed to watch us but my dad's</b><b>20 minutes up you know down the road or 25</b><b>you know it was hysterical so what palace what</b><b>have my buddy calls it the palace you're always</b><b>got a palace yeah who wouldn't want to hang out</b><b>there it wasn't like that scene you see um 16</b><b>candles the movie yeah where they have the party</b><b>at the house you know i'm talking about there</b><b>were there didn't go that bad like it was controlled</b><b>but there were a couple that were like you're</b><b>like there's a lot of people we had this really cool</b><b>deck off the off the second floor with a little</b><b>like what was supposed to be a storage shed which</b><b>i'm sure became like the smoker shed which is</b><b>really breaks my heart because like if there's</b><b>one place i'd like to have smoked it would</b><b>have been there you know like everyone else did</b><b>right um but you know it was it was a great party</b><b>house and um and yeah so so here's this was funny</b><b>so i started dating this girl like my senior</b><b>year and we're in high school still right right yeah</b><b>yeah so this is like i guess this is junior to</b><b>senior and i'm getting this girl my mom comes home</b><b>from this is like a little core memory and my</b><b>mom comes home and she's over wait it was coming</b><b>back from alaska yeah yes my mom comes home from</b><b>yeah yeah it wasn't a surprise okay okay i just</b><b>for the last month and a half two months she</b><b>was over in my house in my room are you kidding</b><b>at that age to have an empty bedroom it's like a</b><b>dream yeah no it's like a dream and you're like</b><b>are you out of your mind lady yeah right well</b><b>for for my mom yeah totally sure i think she really</b><b>i think she trusted i would do the right thing and</b><b>i did morgan i have no idea but like me it was like</b><b>why wouldn't she though you were like this</b><b>amazing high achieving kid you know it didn't</b><b>break a lot of rules and all that yeah like</b><b>yeah she didn't know about the army crawl then</b><b>yeah yeah she did not pre-army which still</b><b>wasn't like all i was doing was going out hanging out</b><b>with buds you know i wasn't really doing a ton of</b><b>bad stuff right there was no reason to not trust</b><b>you and supposedly your dad was going to watch</b><b>you quote unquote correct he's there for emergencies</b><b>right yeah um but i'll never forget this because</b><b>the girl's over hanging out and i get this like</b><b>gregory oh what is happening right and i go</b><b>what's up mom what's going on she's like you will not</b><b>have guests the female persuasion in my</b><b>house and i was like oh so now there's rules okay</b><b>sorry like uh you know like i always wanted</b><b>my mom the way i looked at is my mom at it</b><b>tough yeah you know she's a single mom</b><b>both my brothers struggled in school um and so</b><b>she worked tirelessly yeah to she's like she's</b><b>she's doing the dunnel hygienist thing to make</b><b>enough money to make ends meet my dad at</b><b>the time still struggling right right um and</b><b>she's got to work so hard with both of them</b><b>every day on their homework yeah they're both</b><b>experimenting with ritalin you know like the</b><b>school you know the you know i mean like there's</b><b>a lot going on right you know and she's just</b><b>surviving you know she's she's and i guess i</b><b>i don't know like i felt like i had to help her</b><b>you know i and i wasn't helping it was just like</b><b>because i don't really think i helped i just</b><b>wasn't ever going to be a burden no you took that</b><b>role right and typically that happens especially</b><b>in those situations one of the kids is going to</b><b>take the compliant role yeah the people pleasing</b><b>role and um the helping role and that you took it</b><b>yeah and that's what i need help for the homework</b><b>homework on my own everything was like it was just</b><b>no but you know i always say this um sometimes</b><b>the compliant kids are the ones you need to watch</b><b>because um everyone assumes they're fine and</b><b>a lot of times they aren't and then um there's</b><b>things that don't get dealt with for the compliant</b><b>kid that the compliant kid as they get older face</b><b>and deal with but um they the the compliant kid</b><b>is burying shit to be compliant and so um i always</b><b>tell people check on your compliant kids because</b><b>those are the ones sometimes that are in the most</b><b>danger mental health wise wow so and i'm not saying</b><b>that was your situation no it's interesting because</b><b>it's right well once mom goes to alaska it's</b><b>party time yeah exactly exactly but it makes</b><b>sense you know what's funny is is like i didn't</b><b>necessarily want to throw parties i just wanted to</b><b>have little get together yeah my brother wanted to</b><b>throw parties yeah you know what i mean i was just</b><b>kind of like we can do anything we want yeah</b><b>come hang out here yeah but you know i just wasn't</b><b>really into drugs barely into drinking i i mean</b><b>i mean i was a total idiot drinking wise i'd be</b><b>like yeah shot shot shot yeah throw up yeah like</b><b>how cool is that yeah and then i'm laying on the</b><b>ground like you're cool and then i'm wrecked for</b><b>the entire next day so like i wasn't i wasn't very</b><b>cool that right you know i just couldn't handle my</b><b>alcohol i didn't know how to just my dad would be</b><b>like dude it's not a race you idiot you know he's</b><b>like what are we doing right and it was like right</b><b>to the cliff fall off so it's so anyway i was just</b><b>mellow but for you it was also access to have girls</b><b>or girl over totally so that was probably the</b><b>biggest highlight of that whole song i mean sure</b><b>the the little bit of exposure to the drinking or</b><b>whatever the people around but 100 for a teenage</b><b>boy who has a consistent girlfriend like having</b><b>access to a bed is like yes that's it right there</b><b>so um that's funny though but you know listen you</b><b>went to church every sunday i'm not surprised she</b><b>came and when she wasn't there that was not when</b><b>she was in alaska but when she showed up that was</b><b>probably on her mind like you're going against</b><b>some things there what's interesting just just</b><b>the sidebars you you were more of the compliant</b><b>people pleaser for your mom but once it sounds</b><b>like when you were in school and sports you didn't</b><b>have to play that role so it's more at the home it</b><b>felt seems like interesting i in because at the</b><b>school my mom was dialed in there was still some</b><b>not gonna be disruptive yeah yeah right no he</b><b>was like there was like a senior prank i'm like</b><b>i don't need to be part of that yeah i think he</b><b>was still doing that very much yeah yeah and high</b><b>achieving captain and and doing all the things</b><b>and yeah no i think that went into school too</b><b>oh man i had some coaches that you know yeah that</b><b>like because they played that father figure role</b><b>like all i wanted to do is make make them</b><b>happy and proud and this yeah and that and you know</b><b>what like and then when it comes full circle so</b><b>there's there's one coach defensive coach in my</b><b>high school and he and i got to know each other</b><b>really well and um unfortunately recently passed</b><b>and um man we would sit there because i was</b><b>a senior i kind of knew like i was cerebral</b><b>enough that i understood how the game was going</b><b>so i'm like why don't we do this why don't we do</b><b>so so we would sit and talk about it right and</b><b>he'd be like why is that guy wuss like i don't know</b><b>what do you want me to do there's a bunch of</b><b>private school kids like you know what i mean</b><b>because he drives a Porsche to school like what</b><b>are we gonna do like you want me to hit him i'll</b><b>hit him but it's gonna cry and walk off the field</b><b>and we would laugh about it we'd have a great time</b><b>um and then you know he gave a speech you</b><b>know like sort of the awards banquet and and</b><b>these things i remember and you know it it</b><b>impacted me he goes if you gave me 11 players</b><b>a if you gave him you gave me 11 players that</b><b>were one we're all like one i would take him</b><b>and and then he also said uh you know he</b><b>goes it's not the size of the line and the fight</b><b>size of the fight and um yeah i mean that you</b><b>know just just people believing in me like someone</b><b>believing in me meant a lot yeah especially</b><b>in high school yeah no it makes sense yeah um</b><b>how did you um balance</b><b>navigating that path through high school in a</b><b>private school where there was probably a lot</b><b>of wealth yeah a lot of wealth um by the way</b><b>it might give might have given me some drive</b><b>okay to kind of prove yourself no like holy</b><b>shit you want live like this you want that</b><b>possible okay yeah okay so were you ever</b><b>viewed like did you ever deal with any stigma sure</b><b>the broke kid scholarship kid yes yeah there was</b><b>uh once i remember and it i don't think it had to</b><b>do with scholarship kid but it kind of did in</b><b>that um you know you had a lot of kids who had</b><b>maids and nannies and all that my mom went through</b><b>this phase she's like you boys will now do your own</b><b>laundry it was one of those we had like she had</b><b>she was cool about like certain rules but like</b><b>if she did the laundry you had to fold it and</b><b>we didn't fold it she's like now you do your own</b><b>laundry well what you learn as a kid is that</b><b>if you leave your laundry wet for a long time it</b><b>stinks yeah and i went through a phase where my</b><b>clothes reeked and i remember like the abuse i</b><b>took i mean i had hand-me-downs yeah you know</b><b>all that stuff and so i definitely took some abuse</b><b>but there were you know there were also some</b><b>other kids in the school that didn't have money too</b><b>and and you know and it was it was okay but by</b><b>the way i also had some great friends who had money</b><b>yeah and i just learned to get along with them</b><b>right you know but i went to you know went to</b><b>sleepovers on indian creek which is where tom</b><b>brady and jeff bezos and all those guys live</b><b>now right and you're like okay so this is</b><b>interesting this is a level like you sometimes</b><b>and i really do believe this i think some people are limited by what they see</b><b>in fact like you know it's like your imagination</b><b>can't create it even if you see it on instagram</b><b>whatever like in social like you can't see</b><b>if you if you but if you've gone into a home</b><b>that looks that beautiful you can go how do i</b><b>get this yeah right now i was always going to do it</b><b>ethically and this that the next but it was</b><b>always like how do i get the house on the hill yeah and</b><b>you see it right you're like wow okay so i need to</b><b>work hard it's the exposure yeah and it was always</b><b>like once i hit a limit in anything i was doing</b><b>i was like well what's next like how do i so i do</b><b>think it it added some drive it rooted into it</b><b>rooted yeah yeah i wanted it if you will yeah</b><b>so there were pros and cons that you dealt with</b><b>some totally for totally being the quote unquote</b><b>poor kid or scholarship kid but it also gave</b><b>you that drive and and stayed with you the rest of</b><b>your life probably so it helps to be the captain</b><b>of the football team well yeah that's that too you</b><b>know like i'm not complaining like i had big</b><b>friends like you want to mess with me i mean</b><b>that's a really big friends are going to beat</b><b>you up and then at the same time at a small school</b><b>like that you're a captain football team and you</b><b>help the team be do great people want to be your</b><b>friend right so yeah you had a lot of</b><b>balance yeah a lot of different worlds very blessed</b><b>do you ever do different worlds besides now yeah</b><b>in different ways um most of it is just kind of</b><b>like man i'm like i'm pretty lucky yeah you know</b><b>more than anything else just kind of blessed like</b><b>i was pretty blessed to be able to do some of</b><b>that without realizing that had i not had those</b><b>things how hard it could have been at that part</b><b>i maybe it's making me think more about right now</b><b>but you know but like i was a decent athlete i</b><b>think the thing is is there's plenty of people</b><b>are decent athletes but they don't work hard</b><b>the just think about it like when when you go from</b><b>football practice to soccer practice to</b><b>homework to theater you know and rinse repeat and oh by</b><b>the way you gotta you know you can't go mess</b><b>around at break because you got to go do this like i was</b><b>i was overworked but i had no but it also said</b><b>like you know if you want all these things like</b><b>by the way like the more it's funny the harder</b><b>you work the more opportunities present themselves</b><b>that's a blessing and a curse because then all of</b><b>a sudden you're like and i still have that blessing</b><b>and curse now because it's this um conflict</b><b>between your values wanting something and it</b><b>like let's say like you want to volunteer but</b><b>it costs you time away from your family and that</b><b>that conflict is messes with me as i've gotten</b><b>older you know because yeah you want to do these</b><b>things but like but like having a child second</b><b>time around yeah i don't want to miss those years</b><b>like i miss them with you first you see the</b><b>trade-off and yes and it creates that conflict</b><b>that conflict what do i what are my values in</b><b>a sense yeah are they you know like making it's</b><b>like just choices you know like funny thing is</b><b>in high school it never felt like there was a</b><b>negative choice it was just do this do this do</b><b>this by the way because i it kept me from partying</b><b>and because i wasn't partying i didn't feel like</b><b>i didn't have fomo on that side of the house yeah</b><b>yeah um because i was busy yes and and and in</b><b>some ways also like we had discussed probably</b><b>also your way of coping with sure what had been</b><b>going on so you've you've been busy you've been</b><b>doing you've been you've had this childhood and</b><b>all this this installation this this little small</b><b>town in miami your mom sells the house you're now</b><b>at uf you had kind of always had adults around you</b><b>helping form who you are yeah now you're on your</b><b>own in college in a town there's no your mom's not</b><b>working at the school she doesn't know no none of</b><b>your mom's friends are working at uf yeah um you're</b><b>you're kind of free maybe for the first time</b><b>no eyes are on you it's just your experience um</b><b>how did that experience compare to where you came</b><b>from big man on campus yeah big big fish small big</b><b>fish small pond to little fish enormous pond was a</b><b>lot um joint fraternity helped um gave me a sense</b><b>of that you know group i mean having a</b><b>couple friends from my high school and it's really</b><b>funny like my so if you go to go to florida</b><b>and it's rush week so you're just kind of walking</b><b>around and my roommate happened to know this dude</b><b>and he comes over and they're like hey let's smoke</b><b>right and i smoked once maybe like okay like</b><b>i was yes to everything at that point right</b><b>uh not everything that's stupid statement so we</b><b>smoke this dude becomes my best friend in all of</b><b>college like we lived together we joined the same</b><b>fraternity and he was like my guy right so we'd be</b><b>we became like the best of friends so it's really</b><b>funny that happened like day one you know that's</b><b>awesome yeah and um and i do truly like being</b><b>around people like i just like people i have this</b><b>friend now he's like he looked at me one day</b><b>he's like you like people yeah he's like you don't</b><b>he's like no i don't like being around people at</b><b>all never even like it's so funny to hear someone</b><b>verbalize it right that's me okay right but</b><b>what's funny is brian is because i like being around</b><b>people i'm very good with introverts yeah yeah</b><b>right because they're like i can pick i make it</b><b>easy on you yeah hang out with me yeah yeah yeah</b><b>and right like because you know some people can do</b><b>like it's just adapting very much so to my</b><b>surroundings so i you know so so it was um</b><b>it wasn't as hard as you think for me i went</b><b>to school i drank a little bit partied too much</b><b>missed a bunch of classes lost my scholarship</b><b>that pissed my parents off yeah yeah but guess what</b><b>response that was was now you're gonna take a</b><b>loan out your name okay back then alone was a little</b><b>easier it was like here's an interest-free loan</b><b>you don't start paying back until after you graduate</b><b>yeah okay so started paying for schools and</b><b>books and stuff like that when did that happen</b><b>uh freshman year okay so was that second semester</b><b>when you got with your friend i gotta see i gotta</b><b>see in theater appreciation and lost my</b><b>scholarship oh no this is hysterical theater because i didn't</b><b>go and i didn't know there was theater</b><b>appreciation for god's sake i love this yes and and it was an</b><b>800 person class which is the worst thing in</b><b>the world because no one cares and then there's</b><b>eight plus notes so you kind of read the notes</b><b>and the guy basically made it tricky on people</b><b>he kind of made it very much this i get my class</b><b>as a joke but i'll put easter eggs in showing up</b><b>i hate that you didn't show up yeah you were</b><b>screwed in this class basically in attendance</b><b>class it's all was yeah i made the mistake also</b><b>like i i signed up for like english at 8 am oh</b><b>but i didn't know any better yeah that's the</b><b>interesting thing but the interesting thing</b><b>about all of this was because i had never</b><b>really needed my mom to help or my dad to help no one</b><b>helped me pick classes no like we didn't go</b><b>through that like she was like you good i'm like i'm good</b><b>but it wasn't making wise decisions such</b><b>as an 8 am class in college or freshman year</b><b>english yeah i'm gonna make that a lot so yeah</b><b>one night to drop that way you know like so i</b><b>went through that process um and yeah i mean i</b><b>paid for it by paying it back you know with interest</b><b>and the modern modern way of uh lending money</b><b>to students and then ripping them off in the</b><b>meanest interest rates you can that makes tons of</b><b>sense to me um so i paid it all back and all that</b><b>but that was the you know that was the trade-off</b><b>that was the consequence there's this whole debate</b><b>around should you go to college or not and i'm</b><b>still there but i think what you're describing</b><b>is part of that experience in college it's not</b><b>all academic it's learning don't schedule a class</b><b>at eight that'll help you later in life do you</b><b>ever have 8 am meetings today yeah right i try not</b><b>yeah you try not to you know unless it's yeah</b><b>yeah brian here's interesting um i went back to</b><b>my school and to talk to seniors and the number one thing i talked to them about is</b><b>uh is invest in relationships when you're</b><b>college you know business world or professional world</b><b>it's a lot about who you know always right but</b><b>opening doors you know who you know opens doors</b><b>i i don't necessarily think that who i know has</b><b>helped me like massively there's there's people</b><b>i do know where like that's worked out but like</b><b>my message to the kids was like you're not there</b><b>necessarily to to really learn and apply the</b><b>book smarts you'll learn some there's some things</b><b>i've learned that you know however my</b><b>favorite classes had nothing to do with my major</b><b>but i had said to the kids i was like look</b><b>first and foremost get outside of your conference</b><b>and i wish i would have done that so this</b><b>that's the negative of like being this people person</b><b>like to be surrounded people i didn't i don't</b><b>like going to a bar by myself whereas you know</b><b>people like i go to a bar by myself all day long</b><b>that's not comfortable for me which is weird and i</b><b>used to when i lived in boca remember gatsby's</b><b>was right down the street and i would be like hey</b><b>i couldn't go there by myself and uh and</b><b>so um and so i didn't break out of my circle</b><b>and and i was challenging them i said you know if</b><b>you break out of your circle and you get outside</b><b>you're gonna meet people from all walks of</b><b>life and these will open massive trees for you</b><b>right tributaries of crazy relationships you</b><b>never knew that i wish i did more and so that's what i</b><b>encourage them to do because that's where i think</b><b>you know college has that that opportunity really</b><b>like a massive opportunity for them to do that</b><b>and then the other thing is like man your best</b><b>opportunity to explore topics you've never thought</b><b>to explore and i don't think you don't like we're</b><b>like hey i'll do theater appreciation and golf</b><b>to get my credits because everything was about</b><b>sort of achieving your credits to get to</b><b>graduate and i was four in four out and i really wish</b><b>i wouldn't have been by the way i don't think</b><b>i coached my daughter as well as i could have</b><b>through her college journey which is funny</b><b>because i know this i really don't think i</b><b>pushed her as hard i got her out of her comfort</b><b>zone for sure she went way out of out of florida</b><b>but not necessarily the way i'm talking which is</b><b>interesting so so oh go ahead well the question</b><b>i so you went back to your you spoke to seniors</b><b>at your high school it's a very interesting thing</b><b>because i know you're you are a giving person</b><b>and you're you do volunteer you do some things like</b><b>that how did they receive that did they so i</b><b>really was so grateful for being invited uh it was like</b><b>i was three years into my company my</b><b>entrepreneurial journey and got invited back and it was a really</b><b>neat experience it was all seniors we had some</b><b>gosillionaires house on fisher island i think</b><b>the guy invented the barcode literally right</b><b>someone invented that right yeah oh by the way</b><b>this was a lesson for me i got to talking to</b><b>him for 30 minutes and realized i know exactly why</b><b>you invented the barcode there was no way you</b><b>were going to survive in corporate america that</b><b>wasn't an option and he and i reflected on that to</b><b>the students i go you know everyone wants to be an</b><b>entrepreneur everyone wants to own a company and</b><b>blah blah blah yeah the reality is is i'm not i</b><b>mean i was college the workforce big corporate i</b><b>just my journey into entrepreneurship is different</b><b>than a lot of other people but there are</b><b>some people who do it out of desperation because</b><b>there's nothing else and that's a really core</b><b>driver right no other options or i've done a</b><b>self-assessment and i can't live in that world</b><b>and that opens really cool things talk about getting</b><b>out of your comfort zone hundred percent yeah</b><b>right and that's you know it's funny getting out</b><b>of your comfort zone is like i feel like i'm a</b><b>risk taker but i don't feel like i'm a risk taker</b><b>it's so because of this circle of comfort that</b><b>that we've talked about building yeah you know</b><b>and and when you were college and we talked about</b><b>how a lot of that fell away but you still had some</b><b>of it because you had friends there and then</b><b>you created with your fraternity so it sounds like</b><b>you kind of approached college a little bit</b><b>similarly in than high school you were driven</b><b>you had an end goal maybe you focused on the end</b><b>is more than the process of getting there it was</b><b>like i'm graduate like i got four years</b><b>graduate this is what i need to do and as you're saying</b><b>instead of getting out of your comfort zone having</b><b>some different life experiences what during those</b><b>four years not be so goal focused on what you're supposed to be doing yeah you know</b><b>i've often reflected that had i decided to go</b><b>like i was burnt out of sports right i had said</b><b>that and um but i love football love it and</b><b>should i have even explored that's going to a small</b><b>school right like staying the same path i'd</b><b>probably be coaching football right now in some</b><b>respect i may still in my older days in like</b><b>high school and what have you but um but if i would</b><b>apply the same level of passion drive and</b><b>intelligence to that you know i would have</b><b>you know done it in a in a high level and so</b><b>sometimes i've you know i keep asking myself like</b><b>you don't always have to do the straight line</b><b>my life's been very straight line i think anyways</b><b>until it gets disrupted and a lot of actually</b><b>my risks have been forced upon me yeah but it's</b><b>yeah yeah yeah and when did but when did that so you graduate from college</b><b>did you then do the next kind of safe</b><b>choice like as far as what was your first yeah so</b><b>my first job was a buddy of mine got me an</b><b>interview okay in atlanta my best bud who one</b><b>of my best buds who um who picked me up every day</b><b>from school his older brother who had come down to</b><b>college and blah blah blah and like we became</b><b>friends and we're great friends now he got me a</b><b>job okay uh ended up being more of a mentor and</b><b>he gets me his job at this company he just left</b><b>and and uh i go on this interview and one of the</b><b>guys i'm interviewing with gets up in the middle</b><b>starts stretching like literally it's the weirdest</b><b>it's my first job interview ever right so awesome</b><b>wait the guy that is interviewing you two guys are interviewing me the friend</b><b>who got me the job is in the or got me the</b><b>interview was in the uh excuse me my best</b><b>friend's brother's buddy who who made the connection</b><b>he's in the room but he starts doing all this weird</b><b>shit and he works for them and he works for them</b><b>like the other right so the other guy goes and the</b><b>other guy's like so i do this whole interview i</b><b>think i did okay yeah they say no my buddy calls</b><b>them up yeah you you're gonna be idiots like don't</b><b>you do this and they end up hiring me oh wow yeah</b><b>calls them like yeah you guys are idiots it's</b><b>like a training ground of inside sales reps right</b><b>okay top of my class blah blah blah first to get</b><b>promoted let's put it this way i i like if someone</b><b>bets on me i'm gonna do a lot to make sure yeah</b><b>and by the way this has driven me this is how i</b><b>think i've been like if even at the client</b><b>level if the client says i'll go with these guys i'm</b><b>going to give the small guy a chance i will do</b><b>everything in my power to make sure that they're</b><b>rewarded for that decision you know so did great</b><b>there but straight arrow like first interview at</b><b>a college got the job went to that place how long</b><b>did you work there uh yeah all in all is about five</b><b>four five years five years that's a long time</b><b>well yeah so so inside sales and then i got promoted</b><b>to and i moved to louisville kentucky so you</b><b>lived in atlanta was in atlanta for two years roughly</b><b>and then went to louisville went to louisville</b><b>okay and uh and did two years there and um that's</b><b>where my girlfriend and i got pregnant okay so</b><b>you're working there um you have your own place</b><b>yeah and you had your own place in atlanta right</b><b>no i had a roommate okay so that was great like</b><b>atlanta was great bunch of young professionals</b><b>okay a couple guys i ended up meeting a guy who</b><b>i knew at florida but didn't know really well and</b><b>someone said hey that guy's looking you're looking</b><b>want you guys to be roommates we're besties now</b><b>it's amazing that's awesome yeah that's awesome</b><b>i love this dude and um and he's he's strange</b><b>i'm strange it's great and we're having the time of</b><b>our lives we're both doing these stupid jobs</b><b>we're making he's making fun of what i'm doing he's</b><b>making fun of what he's doing we're both</b><b>just trying to figure it out go out barely spend</b><b>every and i made three or four friends who i am</b><b>really close with that's great that's great and</b><b>then and then my buddy's older brother is now</b><b>one of my best buds and because now four-year</b><b>differences and four-five-year difference is</b><b>nothing yeah yeah yeah and so yeah the friendships i</b><b>made atlanta are i mean i i'm very blessed like</b><b>i i have a great circle of just super cool people</b><b>yeah yeah and then when you get to kentucky so</b><b>that's your first time ever living on your own</b><b>oh yeah and how old were you 23 so that's</b><b>cool yeah getting your own place right kentucky's</b><b>interesting luval's interesting right like at one</b><b>point i joke like um i go out to a bar i'm one of</b><b>the only guys that doesn't have his name on it</b><b>sure why did they have their name on this shirt</b><b>like you know like you're like a uniform oh</b><b>like uh yeah like your name kec like a uniform like</b><b>wait you got like a blue collar job versus a</b><b>white collar which isn't even fair but it was</b><b>like mentally i'm young and i'm stupid it's not</b><b>okay by the way luval is an amazing way it's one</b><b>of our favorites we've been there um we</b><b>loved it we loved it loved it okay big small town</b><b>great whiskey scene great bar scene great</b><b>music scene great music scene is fantastic they had</b><b>like sunday concerts they are catholic churches</b><b>a new carnival every sun like summers in luva are</b><b>amazing winners who cold were you in downtown</b><b>i lived in uh the st matthews area i'm not kind</b><b>of a little suburbia okay the downtown wasn't</b><b>as as good as it is now yeah right it wasn't as</b><b>and it's still kind of a small down show now it's</b><b>a little dodgy yeah it's a little dodgy but it's</b><b>like a small downtown but by the way like i</b><b>met a guy there who is a lifelong friend now</b><b>yeah he's amazing i'm not surprised it's it's</b><b>just kind of my journey yeah it's kind of my journey</b><b>so you're living in your own place for the first</b><b>time that's a big move um and your work you work</b><b>you got this promotion you're working and you</b><b>meet this woman uh my girlfriend from high school</b><b>oh so had you guys been dating this whole time</b><b>no no wait is this the one that the mom your mom</b><b>yelled about no okay that was the hooters</b><b>waitress oh nothing special about that at all</b><b>part of myself but yeah you know my kids are</b><b>gonna listen to this one um yeah so uh so when did you</b><b>start dating her in high school uh sophomore year</b><b>she was a year younger than i was so i guess i was</b><b>a junior she was a sophomore you guys were like</b><b>off and on through high school well she ended up</b><b>moving back to columbia the country oh so like</b><b>they okay her family moved back there and that's</b><b>and then we reconnected in kentucky of all</b><b>places we were connected remotely okay and so then</b><b>even in atlanta so we reconnected remotely and</b><b>then we started doing the remote day it was always</b><b>long distance okay she would fly she was from</b><b>columbia no she was living in miami working so</b><b>she when she graduated college she moved to</b><b>miami and started working okay and then we were doing</b><b>the long distance thing for a while and then uh</b><b>we were talking about marriage so it wasn't like</b><b>we weren't talking about it and so did she move</b><b>to kentucky to live with you moved to kentucky but</b><b>she like moved in we're like i said well why</b><b>don't you move like she's like i want to be closer so</b><b>she moves with some roommates or gets an apartment</b><b>with some roommates but that doesn't work so she's</b><b>in my house oh okay 24 seven okay when you're</b><b>young you know yeah so so you had your own place</b><b>but no yeah so i had my kind of my own place for</b><b>like a year and then she's and then you had your</b><b>girlfriend there correct okay and she's working</b><b>there too i assume in yes kentucky okay yes and</b><b>so uh you guys are dating we're dating and</b><b>you're talking about marriage yeah we're like hey and</b><b>maybe yeah in a ring i would like okay that kind</b><b>of stuff yeah um more like that i'm still 23 right</b><b>right 24 um and then she gets pregnant okay and</b><b>you know so i'm i immediately say well it's this</b><b>guy gotta do the right thing let's went to the</b><b>got the justice of the peace come to my house and</b><b>my mom flew up my dad was like should i and you</b><b>know like that's no big deal don't worry about it</b><b>we'll connect so then um so then he so it's</b><b>like no it's my mom's there and and we do a little</b><b>baby altar in my apartment if you will and and uh</b><b>justice to the peace comes he's you know like an</b><b>ordained minister and he does that um and so we</b><b>get married what about her family were they there</b><b>family was in columbia we had him like on like</b><b>uh like uh what was it at the time aim or icq yeah</b><b>something like that yeah it's crazy like</b><b>something you know to get it um yeah and it's me my mom</b><b>um her uh my uncle because my uncle lived in</b><b>Louisville okay and then my my my cousin and those</b><b>were like our witnesses and we did a little cute</b><b>little thing and you know had some wine whatever</b><b>it was nice um and then a couple weeks later</b><b>we went down to or uh orlando and did the parks</b><b>and uh um we did the parks and so everyone like</b><b>a couple my buddies came my dad came and everyone</b><b>got to spend time with her and get to know or</b><b>whatever yeah she spent some time with my dad my</b><b>dad was like yeah yeah that's great like he's</b><b>like i'm not feeling great but everything's good</b><b>um and uh and my dad my dad died 30 days later</b><b>so how old were you i was uh 24 and she was still</b><b>and she was still pregnant how did he pass</b><b>away heart attack so my grandfather died at 58</b><b>a couple months before i was born of a heart attack</b><b>uh and and so he my dad died of heart attack at 58</b><b>a couple months before my daughter was born your</b><b>daughter was born yeah wow so it was in the family</b><b>yeah hereditary for sure young though very and he was in miami</b><b>yeah my uh my little uh i'm at i'm at a work thing</b><b>and i get a phone call uh from a police officer and</b><b>he was in the shower and he um they had a tar</b><b>deck in the shower and my poor little brother</b><b>woke up was he living with him he was</b><b>living with him and he woke up like when it is</b><b>just kind of moseying around yeah yeah yeah yeah</b><b>your poor brother just to add on to all the other shit you were talking about yeah</b><b>and which is amazing because he's he just just</b><b>his heart so big you know he's just such a good</b><b>you know he just kind of floats through life</b><b>with this like you would think he'd be like</b><b>rr rr rr no no he's not he's doesn't he doesn't</b><b>like walk around with this dark cloud woe is me</b><b>vibe at all i'm always like dude not not only</b><b>was your dad young you were young yeah very young</b><b>and about to become a father yeah yeah so that's</b><b>a whole other thing um that was uh so that that</b><b>had to been like a grenade for your family</b><b>just massive we were gonna move from Louisville to</b><b>Atlanta we changed our minds when we said let's</b><b>go move down to South Florida which i think my wife</b><b>never wanted to be in my wife yeah my wife never</b><b>wanted to be in Atlanta anyway right so she used</b><b>that as an opportunity or we say let's get to</b><b>Miami uh so that's August first September 11th</b><b>happens oh jeez uh we set September we move i</b><b>changed jobs same company same company wonderful</b><b>wonderful manager was important man in my life</b><b>um because they worked with you right because</b><b>everything going on they kind of set all that up</b><b>for you that job in Miami they weren't okay yeah</b><b>they weren't that one man was good i was gonna</b><b>say you got one guy he had a role he's like you</b><b>can come here i got i was leaving the company</b><b>by the way like i was interviewing for a role</b><b>at a different company because i was like i'm</b><b>gonna move on okay big corporate 250,000 person</b><b>company you know so he had a role i knew the</b><b>guy he's like hey i got a role in for a lot of you</b><b>can come down here that's great so we i gotta</b><b>move we buy a house change jobs my daughter's born</b><b>all within six months and you're 24 turn 25 25</b><b>25 i guess that was 25 and your mom's not there</b><b>because she's living and mom was super like she's</b><b>trying to do right but but all the familiar stuff</b><b>yes there's no familiar there's nothing</b><b>it's just such a contrast from when you left</b><b>graduated high school and this life you had</b><b>had and then you come back yeah and it's like</b><b>nothing is we move out to the middle of</b><b>nowhere suburbia west west west Broward county</b><b>and your dad's not there so you're having to</b><b>live down here in south florida without your</b><b>father for the first time that's a whole new</b><b>normal was your little brother still here no</b><b>he was in tampa um but you had the uncle right and</b><b>the cousins yeah who lived in boca but too far away</b><b>well it it almost i mean now you've got your new</b><b>wife and the daughter's born the baby the baby's</b><b>born you've got a new job you're back to a</b><b>familiar geographical area but it's completely</b><b>different that's what i yeah that's what i mean</b><b>it's almost like twelved like i don't know anyone</b><b>yeah so so well and she's still we haven't</b><b>even gotten to the birth of your daughter so</b><b>she's still pregnant you've started this new job</b><b>you've bought a house um i mean i bought that house</b><b>and she was born and then she was born and now</b><b>your father yeah so how did becoming a father</b><b>change your life you know i take it very</b><b>seriously but then it was i took it as it was</b><b>responsibility you know um and i think my</b><b>wife was struggling with a little postpartum</b><b>that's my diagnosis no one else's um so it was</b><b>really tough it was really tough i was opening</b><b>a territory that had been um neglected for a</b><b>very long time and if anyone's tried to build</b><b>a business from start it's it's really hard it's</b><b>a ton of knows well actually we didn't even touch</b><b>on that huge expectations professionally now</b><b>right now i gotta earn you gotta earn and you're</b><b>you're building a territory starting it from</b><b>scratch or fixing a neglected one yeah and it's</b><b>it's the type you know back then sales jobs</b><b>were low base yeah you make your money and you're</b><b>variable now there's now they've you know new</b><b>world of yeah you know there's more balance to it</b><b>which is different and um so it's really hard</b><b>i had a good manager he was he was cool dude</b><b>he had a lot of pressure on you because now</b><b>you're a father and a husband father and i we could we</b><b>couldn't make the ends and like and it was funny</b><b>because i inherited just a little you know a little</b><b>money from my dad from life insurance the irony</b><b>of my father being a financial planner but it's</b><b>you know the cobblers children have no shoes</b><b>kind of thing yeah his world by the way i was</b><b>the i was the executor of the will because there</b><b>was no executive the will so that everyone's like</b><b>you're the guy who's organized i'm like i'm</b><b>not organized you're the high achiever correct so</b><b>it's not always fun to be the high achiever and</b><b>uh and for some reason in our family we like to</b><b>say please be the high achiever and then judge</b><b>you as you do it yeah lovely and that happened</b><b>to my dad when my mom when my grandma passed</b><b>too he was judged as he did as he did it which is</b><b>funny yeah um i think that happens heavy as the</b><b>crown they say right yeah um yeah and i remember</b><b>so distinctively walking the dog once because</b><b>our when the marriage was hard it wasn't working</b><b>it was just you know unfortunately it was just</b><b>nothing but stress yeah all along the way and</b><b>there wasn't a ton of support and i remember</b><b>looking at the sky like just like dude where are</b><b>you yeah not god dad dad yeah where like i need</b><b>you now you know yeah and you're dealing with a</b><b>lot there you're dealing with not having a father</b><b>at 25 which no one expects yeah hello like never</b><b>in your wildest dreams he was so excited to be a</b><b>granddad like he was out all over the moon right</b><b>he was gonna have granddaughter yeah three boys</b><b>right and just to go back right you would finally</b><b>once you're hit an old enough age to drink</b><b>you know hang out that's when your relationship</b><b>really started so you 30 days it was a really</b><b>cool window was it only that long it was only</b><b>that long to talk about what was gonna be</b><b>possible yeah 30 days what a tease man what a terrible</b><b>joke geez so and our last one of our last i'm</b><b>pretty sure our last conversation was he was</b><b>telling me i should buy life insurance and i go</b><b>dad i don't want to talk about death right now</b><b>yeah i like dude yeah i'll figure it out but i</b><b>don't want to deal with this now he's like you</b><b>need to do this you know my dad i was always sort</b><b>of he's not trying to sell me anything he's like</b><b>this is responsible what's something happens</b><b>to you you know yeah yeah yeah i remember buying</b><b>life insurance like right after he passed because</b><b>i was like i need it you know yeah so i it's it's</b><b>such a cruel joke right you're giving a window</b><b>into what could be and then it's snatched from you</b><b>and you're so young and at the same time and</b><b>you're still a child you're still your father's</b><b>child at that time we're always our parents</b><b>child so you're your father's child and you lose him</b><b>but now you're someone's father and have to</b><b>be that to that child and also a husband it's a</b><b>that is an insane tornado of everything um what</b><b>would you say your biggest coping mechanism was</b><b>during that time uh that's funny i mean you know</b><b>work was part of it you know it because i had no</b><b>choice i mean i mean i guess ultimately i</b><b>don't ever run from a fight that's never been me so</b><b>unfortunately that leads you to deal with</b><b>things later yeah right so just push it down denial</b><b>maybe that's a little nice gen x or just push</b><b>those feelings down you're not allowed to have those</b><b>oh yeah um so there was a lot of that uh buddy of mine got me involved in a</b><b>softball team is just a way to take my mind off</b><b>of it um yeah i was i i i don't know that i coped</b><b>yeah as much as i just dealt avoided avoided</b><b>yeah just just operated right like i put blinders on</b><b>and said you know execute you know like you</b><b>can't not make ends meet uh i think it got real then</b><b>then there was a divorce so how long were you</b><b>guys together like 18 months it almost uh was</b><b>destined to not to fail because so much it</b><b>started with just so much yeah and anyone in</b><b>a normal situation would struggle but you guys</b><b>were so young and even though you'd been talking</b><b>about marriage it kind of was happened so quickly</b><b>there wasn't a lot of preparation wasn't natural</b><b>per se correct for it it was reaction to right</b><b>and then but it's almost a it's a testament to</b><b>you being a good person too though you're trying</b><b>to do the right thing and doing the right thing</b><b>isn't always easy and then you get more curveballs</b><b>thrown at you and it's like this is really not easy</b><b>under such extenuating circumstances i mean it's</b><b>and and even though you know your mom was there</b><b>being supportive she's not living close to you</b><b>so it's not like she's the grandma that could just</b><b>come over and help you know what i mean you</b><b>didn't you guys didn't have that even that person</b><b>that comes hey i'll take the baby you guys take</b><b>a break yes i think i've learned a little bit of</b><b>that my mom's really good at dealing with the</b><b>situation without emotion just just operating</b><b>like she when my dad passed like even though i</b><b>mean to give you an idea of like you know they</b><b>they really loved each other they just had a</b><b>really tough time and they and they got divorced</b><b>but like like we did thanks we did a just</b><b>before he had the year before he passed we all did</b><b>thanksgiving and christmas together they were</b><b>still friends yeah like yeah you know they there</b><b>was a respect that got developed redeveloped over</b><b>time and and that was really beautiful to see um</b><b>and when my dad passed like she was really a</b><b>rock for the three of us like she she moved it but</b><b>and she talked to me about how like then it came</b><b>crashing down on her yeah my dad's passing didn't</b><b>come crashing down on me until like really like</b><b>to deal with it it was funny like one honestly</b><b>it was years later and my buddies about my buddy</b><b>uh had to write a eulogy for his grandma's passing</b><b>and he goes you know can i see yours because i i</b><b>spoke at my dad's and i like got three sentences</b><b>into it um ran out the house for about an hour</b><b>and just basically sat on a outside the back of</b><b>my house crying for it finally hit yeah i just</b><b>couldn't could not cry how long from the time</b><b>your dad had passed to that four years maybe</b><b>okay so you had buried and buried it yeah avoided</b><b>and was in and were in denial you don't i've</b><b>reflected on a lot of the harder things that</b><b>have happened in my life and i and i i feel like</b><b>i feel like god does that to certain people who</b><b>can handle it so that they can help others through</b><b>it and and like even when my parents got divorced</b><b>buddy of mine was going through it i was there to</b><b>help him through it like hey dude you know and it</b><b>was tough not long after my dad passed a couple</b><b>years later you know one of my good buds his dad</b><b>passed heart attack and like you know to be</b><b>there for him yeah you know that makes me feel really</b><b>good you know yeah um you're giving back from your</b><b>own experience and your own agony what's the point</b><b>of it if you're finding yeah you're finding</b><b>meaning behind it yeah i think that helps me heal</b><b>right which is which is and that comes from</b><b>your beliefs from your two places to believe</b><b>religious right you got double right hey that's</b><b>good yeah but that faith gives you that helps you</b><b>find that meaning you know and um i actually think</b><b>that's a beautiful thing um and i'm not surprised</b><b>that it took you that i think i don't know if men</b><b>in general do that but i think all men i've known</b><b>who've gone through a significant loss like</b><b>that avoid dealing with it for a very long time</b><b>and the men i'm talking about are gen x</b><b>two age and so i think that also goes back to</b><b>gen x boys not being given space to understand</b><b>identify their emotions express them and then</b><b>they grow up to be these men who still don't have</b><b>that emotional development are you looking at me</b><b>to them because you're included in this um but i</b><b>think then when life hits uh they don't necessarily</b><b>have the tools to even start processing and</b><b>um yeah because i think the younger generation</b><b>the men and the younger generations are way more</b><b>fluent in being able to identify not in general</b><b>in general um even to just identify what you're</b><b>feeling identify it and give it a word so um that</b><b>i think that's very typical for our generation</b><b>the way you coped with it but then you were able to</b><b>find good in it and how you gave back to</b><b>others and not everyone can do that so that's very</b><b>commendable that you found that silver lining</b><b>there so you you guys divorce after 18 months</b><b>do you stay living close to each other she</b><b>moved back to bogota columbia with the baby yes that</b><b>was a tough decision at first you know so i was</b><b>so young and stupid um i was like well she's a</b><b>girl she needs to be with her mom there was</b><b>probably some selfishness there you know what i</b><b>don't think it was selfish there was some fear</b><b>there yeah i don't think i can do this really</b><b>didn't i'm like i don't like if it was a boy i</b><b>probably would have been like all right you know</b><b>smack him in the head let's figure it out as</b><b>a girl i was scared i didn't know did you say</b><b>not even 18 months old yeah and uh at first it was</b><b>okay because at first it was great she would spend</b><b>months at a time with each of us so she'd be in</b><b>columbia for a month fly back to me with a month</b><b>but with a nanny oh okay from columbia okay</b><b>yeah and i would have her for months at a time that</b><b>sounds pretty ideal it was amazing it was like</b><b>what so my buddy my buddy teased me all the time he's</b><b>like dude nor don't it's fake parenting but like</b><b>he teased me all the time like fake parenting bro</b><b>like yeah well but but yeah that that was</b><b>great where it really sucked is when school saved</b><b>because then it went from i had her all the time</b><b>and and our relationship was really great in those</b><b>first like zero to five zero to six like</b><b>really good with your daughter yeah really great and</b><b>then when she started going to school it was</b><b>like um it was like all of a sudden it really</b><b>went down not downhill that's not the right word</b><b>it just separated you know it became harder to do</b><b>i would fly to columbia to be with her you know</b><b>and i would you know like you didn't even have</b><b>a weekend so i would go months without her and it</b><b>was there was no face time there's no any of that</b><b>like you know like what what six seven or eight</b><b>year old wants to talk on the phone yeah how are</b><b>you good how was school good yeah so was it um</b><b>like would she come spend summers with you yes</b><b>and then like every other christmas all that</b><b>yeah so that's and a lot of times especially the</b><b>christmas i mean it takes a while just to get</b><b>caught up and get comfortable with each other</b><b>again so i'm sure in the summers you had that time</b><b>but christmas is probably right as you guys found</b><b>your groove she's going back to columbia yeah you</b><b>know they were tricky times i i tried to make it</b><b>to columbia a couple times a year so does she</b><b>have dual citizenship that's cool yeah is she</b><b>fluent spanish in english that's awesome that's</b><b>awesome so did that go on for her from kindergarten</b><b>to time she was 18 was she doing that no because</b><b>um things that happened in her world in her mom's</b><b>world and we had made the decision it was</b><b>better for her my now wife and i were had made the</b><b>decision we were dating for a while we made the</b><b>decision let's move in together and at the same</b><b>time we decided to move in together um her mom</b><b>had some stuff going on that was like it'd be</b><b>better if she was with you how old was she 12</b><b>okay so middle school so you guys got a girl right as</b><b>she was going into middle school so and i feel</b><b>bad for i mean like yeah everything she knew she was</b><b>like she was living in one city her mom's like</b><b>we're moving to a new city they moved to that new</b><b>city and immediately is like hey this isn't</b><b>working out you need to go with your dad and</b><b>so she just got ripped from everything she</b><b>knew and you know i i know that was hard now</b><b>the amazing thing is she got brought into a very</b><b>stable situation except her dad's a lunatic and</b><b>yells and screams a lot did not handle having</b><b>two middle school slash high schoolers and that</b><b>like i did not hand but now you're no were you</b><b>also newly married we were at the time not even</b><b>engaged we just said let's move in together and</b><b>see if this works middle school is hard for almost</b><b>every girl and i think for a lot of boys under any</b><b>circumstance i always say it sucks it's the worst</b><b>it's the worst let alone what your daughter</b><b>was walking into being in america now permanently</b><b>being with her father and his girlfriend now and</b><b>um and also a place that speaks only english like</b><b>she was coming from even though she knows it it's</b><b>such a culture big culture difference big culture</b><b>difference so i can't even imagine yeah what she</b><b>went through i mean i really and also what you guys</b><b>were going through because you're not only</b><b>helping guide who through middle school shit</b><b>but also cultural stuff too well yeah so</b><b>they parent different yeah than we parent</b><b>there's a nanny there there was a grandma there</b><b>my daughter knew how to get a yes some way shape or</b><b>form my wife is really black and white she comes</b><b>from a very strong multi-general multi-generational</b><b>military background so that's another another</b><b>shock oh yeah well by the way like i feel you</b><b>know that i also feel really bad for my oldest</b><b>who you know my oldest was it was just her and her</b><b>mom yeah you know like not that her dad wasn't</b><b>around but it was it was her yeah i was gonna</b><b>ask you that so you said you had two middle</b><b>schoolers there's no high school in a middle schooler right</b><b>yeah it roughly works out to high school she's</b><b>about four years older so that your wife now had</b><b>her a child correct that's what i'm referring</b><b>to okay so i just call her my oldest yes yeah</b><b>no she's my oldest she's amazing so your</b><b>oldest is there and had been her and her mom her mom</b><b>and her mom has to make this choice like hey</b><b>we're gonna move in with dummy yeah this guy</b><b>just ignore his temper in this weird manner ignore</b><b>his temper which on the move-in day you know like</b><b>south florida movers or maybe it's everywhere but</b><b>they like close the door and they're like you owe</b><b>us more money yeah and i do not handle</b><b>someone shaking me down well yeah at all and i'm</b><b>and we're they're pros losing and by the way</b><b>those those two there's no up and down there</b><b>is as even killed as there is and i am like</b><b>i won't kill everyone in this fucking world</b><b>lucy did and they're just like what's</b><b>happening right heard you're all like what have you got</b><b>she's like life was great it was just me and</b><b>mom like i had her all to myself now i gotta share</b><b>her and i'm like oh funny story not only do you</b><b>have to share her here comes a wrecking ball yeah</b><b>and i don't mean that the wrong way i come in</b><b>like i mean like the song like just yes yes yes</b><b>latin yes right yes big personality highly</b><b>emotional what the hell just happened to me</b><b>right but the way i deal with it is ah and like</b><b>by the way every time she used to come home my wife</b><b>wasn't living with me right and so she's used to</b><b>i get to sleep in dasbeth oh kind of things too</b><b>right so like it's all really wonky so they</b><b>both like your oldest doesn't get as much time with</b><b>her mom and now your your daughter who's</b><b>come from corvia doesn't get to sleep in dasbeth</b><b>so that's being adventure that's another tornado</b><b>yeah i don't even know i think i'm wrong i think</b><b>it's like 10 and 14 you know what i mean or 11</b><b>it's a thing like right okay so but that's hard</b><b>but it's all that does tough one being ripped</b><b>away from her mom and like but but like but like</b><b>the relationship there is is a little bit more</b><b>cheerleader best friend yeah my wife is a little</b><b>bit more like the boss right like my like these</b><b>are the rules pick up after you're still like very</b><b>like by the way the most supporting and loving</b><b>person in the world and her daughters are blessed</b><b>to have her because they they know it but that's</b><b>the boss right you know what i'm saying it's just</b><b>such a difference and there are rules yeah she had</b><b>no rules to all rules right right right that's how</b><b>this one is nicole runs the tight ships here the</b><b>one goes from no rules to all rules and this and</b><b>my oldest goes from like peace love and</b><b>happiness to mad chaos yeah so my poor girls so they can</b><b>have anything they want what do you guys need how</b><b>can dad help okay so to go back a little bit though</b><b>um after your your divorce yeah um did you stay</b><b>living there no no i sold that house okay and got</b><b>my finances restabilized i'd been losing you know</b><b>like it was in all this debt well i tell you the</b><b>scariest debt is the scariest thing to me it's</b><b>never yeah and um but you learn that like you</b><b>come out of it you know like yeah you know</b><b>nothing's finite yeah i needed to learn that</b><b>i was like i'm never getting out of this debt it</b><b>takes me 50 just to buy lunch yeah yeah you know</b><b>how am i ever going to do it and then you just</b><b>learn that you believe in yourself and it works</b><b>out but um we work hard but um yeah i moved to</b><b>close to downtown and had a little fun so you got</b><b>your own place got my own place got a part now</b><b>were you experiencing the downtown miami that</b><b>you didn't experience that's at fort lauterdale</b><b>but yes little bit a little bit had a little fun</b><b>yeah i had some fun actually and then and then</b><b>like a year later i moved up to here so up to boca</b><b>up to boca yeah so were you in the same company</b><b>during all this time when you moved to downtown</b><b>no i uh well i moved to downtown and and then i uh</b><b>i jumped from like atnt to nortel all sales though</b><b>sales okay yeah good with people uh to nortel</b><b>and then that was like it was tough it was like</b><b>a sinking ship and then realize it and then i got</b><b>recruited to go over to cisco okay and that this</b><b>is my sort of stupid brain i think it's like oh</b><b>my territory is gonna be you know boca north so</b><b>i should move that way like it matters right but</b><b>like that's what i felt you know i feel like i had</b><b>to be in market um i get hired my boss quits one</b><b>week later that was awesome i didn't even have a</b><b>laptop and literally my boss quits and literally</b><b>whoever replaces him's like what are you bringing</b><b>in this week i'm gonna get on a laptop i don't</b><b>even know what you're talking about right i guess</b><b>it was it was culture shock for me like uh what</b><b>are you you know yeah um but screw it man you know</b><b>just put my backpack on and went to it and uh</b><b>immediately started earning that's when i met jd</b><b>okay so how long did you work for cisco six</b><b>years and doing sales yeah and so you were there at a</b><b>decent time then right because if nortel they got</b><b>rid of nortel a lot of a lot of the big voice bush</b><b>yeah a lot of big voice push uh the voice</b><b>yeah voice was big the pics the pics was you know</b><b>the pics was there you know like a couple keys</b><b>blew up at that time but it was hard man like</b><b>my first experience there was uh it was big team</b><b>meeting that's how i met jd big team meeting and</b><b>uh and like i'm sitting there talking like they</b><b>introduced me and i'm you know blah blah blah and</b><b>different things or tell us a little bit about</b><b>nortel and this and that jd's like come here young</b><b>young pup so so like you're talking about like an</b><b>eight layer in like eight desk deep type thing and</b><b>handsome is in the back corner like as cool as the</b><b>other side of the pillow right like real cool back</b><b>there and he grabs me and he's like come to the</b><b>hotel pick me up literally and he's like i'm gonna</b><b>put you under my wing like he right from there</b><b>grabbed me and put me under his wing jd did jd did</b><b>yeah and uh you know that was a blessing</b><b>blessing that's who he is yeah yeah everything so it's a</b><b>that's for our listeners we have an episode with</b><b>jd we highly suggest you go listen to jd's episode</b><b>so in that sense jd was a mentor for you but your roles not that they've completely</b><b>reversed but you guys are tight now you guys are</b><b>friends yeah totally um yeah like i said but my</b><b>my my wife fell so so in love with jd she's like</b><b>that man is all love and she she said do you mind</b><b>if i ask him to marry us and and so she reached</b><b>out to him and said i'd like you know like you to be</b><b>are efficient and uh she's amazing that way</b><b>like she's done it five times uh she's married five</b><b>you know five different people and um and that</b><b>has been passed forward so jd now is married i think</b><b>three couples and his son and two others so your</b><b>wife has married like five people yeah and then</b><b>now jd was right yeah since she's done it she</b><b>was like all you have to do is become a justice to</b><b>the peace and and you can that's wonderful isn't</b><b>it it is it really is to be there for that moment</b><b>uh for people's are beginning their life</b><b>together yeah through all these years of um i mean even</b><b>starting in atlanta all the way through until</b><b>jd took you under his wing um and you're this</b><b>young salesman in the corporate world yeah so this</b><b>culture shock was interesting because we all go to</b><b>dinner okay this is like oh yeah you know you</b><b>know it was torture we all go to dinner and this</b><b>because we're out we're like bossless and this</b><b>woman comes down and we all go to this really</b><b>big dinner we're drinking a ton of wine and she</b><b>goes yay and she stands up on the table and says</b><b>wine commits and this was so funny i love this</b><b>she goes she would point at someone he'd be like</b><b>eight hundred thousand and they're like you five</b><b>hundred thousand you seven hundred thousand and</b><b>everyone's going around and she's literally</b><b>writing it down and they get to me and meanwhile</b><b>like i'm there on the job like two weeks i'm</b><b>like i don't know two hundred they're like boo loser</b><b>what is happening right now right yeah you</b><b>sculpture shock for me i was like i don't think</b><b>it was a great first experience most people</b><b>when they go to work for a company like that</b><b>their first experience is like you go to</b><b>corporate you get the ha ha the ra ra john chambers high</b><b>fives you you know all these things i listened to</b><b>jd's podcast he was like this is the greatest place</b><b>in the world i didn't get that experience okay</b><b>i went straight into you suck because you didn't</b><b>say a big enough because you didn't take big you</b><b>know big enough number and um i think that is why</b><b>i wasn't there more than six years yeah and why</b><b>i ended up in the journey i wanted because i was</b><b>like that's not this isn't who i am different</b><b>markets too though right because jd was up in new</b><b>york and it the financials are there and all</b><b>that but not when i met him when i met him he was</b><b>covering south florida a part of south florida</b><b>call your Naples all that you know what i mean</b><b>but yes like his journey his indoctrination was</b><b>there think about it he spent all that time with</b><b>john chambers he had given me time with um a</b><b>powerful yeah pretty remarkable guy totally yeah</b><b>yeah could you imagine being in the room yeah</b><b>yeah like i just want to hear what he says yeah</b><b>that's how you talk to people there's an award</b><b>right and i think that's what jd went through</b><b>up there that's what i mean his experience is</b><b>way different he talks about a situation like that</b><b>um well jd coaches me on that too like he'll</b><b>say that was a john chambers moment that's cool</b><b>like if i say if i do something that is about</b><b>motivating the team about providing direction</b><b>he'll reach out to me and he's like you've</b><b>grown that's awesome and his affirmation means a lot</b><b>that's awesome he's uh he's shared that his</b><b>his uh his admiration or acknowledgement of your</b><b>professional and personal growth and maybe i'm</b><b>talking out of school here but he's like i'll tell</b><b>you greg he's really just grown or matured or</b><b>whatever it is so he's a huge fan oh definitely</b><b>definitely through all those years um and you had</b><b>so many different experiences it sounds like with</b><b>different companies different positions but you</b><b>were still pretty young yeah doing all this um</b><b>is there something you wish you would have done</b><b>differently during those years or if you could go</b><b>back is there a different way you would have</b><b>approached things professionally i mean if i were</b><b>doing anything different it would have been not go</b><b>to atlanta from college it would have been to go to</b><b>a bigger market that would have been more and be</b><b>more technical or something i mean i don't i only</b><b>path of least resistance like ultimately a friend</b><b>got me an interview that's how i got into tech i</b><b>am not a pure computer technical guy i fell in</b><b>love with it because i find it super interesting</b><b>and even when i went to work at this company i</b><b>grabbed this this guy who's now a great friend</b><b>and i go hey man he is this wonderful surfer dude</b><b>the atlanta surfer and um he uh i go can you show</b><b>me what the hell this is and he walked me into</b><b>the data center he's like this is what this is this</b><b>is what this is like thank you and then i was like</b><b>oh cool like this actually i understand its power</b><b>i really do i understand what it does and it does</b><b>if you really think about it like we live in the</b><b>operations of it world and operations i had a</b><b>cio i respect a lot said said the other day it was</b><b>just kind of loosely saying it he's like it's</b><b>the engine and if the engine doesn't work nothing</b><b>works because it's not sexy but it's the engine</b><b>and um i think people overlook that so i really</b><b>fell in love with that i'm like so this is cool</b><b>that we can do this and that enables this person</b><b>who's here to work and be safe be secure and like i just find it interesting um</b><b>but i've had something like dude if you went into new york and in big finance</b><b>this could have been your journey or that could have been your journey so</b><b>maybe just not taking the easiest path of you</b><b>know like i said i think my world is like i've</b><b>stayed an easy path until something else disrupts it but from that other disruption</b><b>comes new growth so maybe that's just the</b><b>universe like okay cool dude you're gonna go this way</b><b>until i knock you off your rocker because</b><b>that's what you need for your growth were you able to</b><b>keep a growth mindset through all those years</b><b>working in corporate or do you think it affected</b><b>yeah no so in corporate i remember i've i've</b><b>got a boss who's uh who's a great dude i remember</b><b>seeing down with him i go when do you think he</b><b>kind of couldn't answer the question we kind of</b><b>sort of had this great philosophical um conversation that led us to a good a great</b><b>relationship now and we get to work together</b><b>still but it was just kind of like man like we</b><b>work at this frenetic pace that you put us through</b><b>8 000 tps reports what did you do for me yesterday</b><b>you know blah blah blah blah like when do you</b><b>sit back and go oh how do i get better and i and i</b><b>think and then uh these these two guys who own</b><b>this company they were recruiting me to leave</b><b>cisco and join them and they sat me down and</b><b>they go what are you doing at cisco your personality</b><b>isn't built for that you're like you you should</b><b>be on the partner side this that the next there's</b><b>it was a sales pitch a little bit they're trying</b><b>to recruit me but it's great because it made me go</b><b>you're right and then i left okay so that was the</b><b>catalyst to get you a bit of the catalyst it was</b><b>a bit of the uh i was like i don't want to work</b><b>here anymore but the real that was the that was</b><b>the potential side the negative side was back</b><b>then in corporate america's model is they shuffle the</b><b>accounts a lot right brian oh yeah and i had done</b><b>a project with a a guy in palm beach and it was an</b><b>it was like the large one of the largest it</b><b>projects his company has ever done and you know</b><b>i looked at it i go this man is trusting me</b><b>that this will work because that's the reality</b><b>i mean there were no one there's no one else in</b><b>this particular in many cases i am often the only</b><b>person that needs to be in the room and i was</b><b>like this is how this is going to work and this</b><b>that and the next and blah blah blah and he</b><b>trusted me that that i would make sure it works</b><b>and that happened at the end of cisco's fiscal</b><b>year and two weeks later they're like not your</b><b>account anymore go here and i'm like no they're</b><b>like excuse me i'm like no they're like no this</b><b>person's gonna manage it i mean she could get all</b><b>the credit if you want but i'm not leaving that man</b><b>and that's when i was like this isn't for me</b><b>yeah i'm the type of person when the work starts</b><b>after the order that's who i am and i just had</b><b>to say i had to honor that like i i have to be</b><b>on that side of the house i can't be on the side</b><b>of the house where you close the deal and you move</b><b>it's not you're not the transactional type it's</b><b>not a relationship you're a relationship and i want</b><b>to do right by people there's everything is a</b><b>level of trust and and what what we often miss</b><b>in my industry is that most sellers don't</b><b>realize how much work it is after you sell something</b><b>you don't take the time to understand what</b><b>brian has to do after he places and how hard that is</b><b>and how if it doesn't work together if it doesn't</b><b>work well like that's when the work really begins</b><b>and by the way i like work yeah i want to be</b><b>there that's where the value is yeah right that's</b><b>where the real value is and so i love that i</b><b>appreciate it more and um and that's when i</b><b>kind of started to look so just before i ask my</b><b>next question i'm curious it it sounds i'm not</b><b>sure when i think the answer to this is going to</b><b>be but have you ever had imposter syndrome oh yeah</b><b>i thought you were going to say no all the time</b><b>because because everything you've talked from from</b><b>captain of soccer captain of football doing the</b><b>play everything you've done you just tackle it</b><b>well and it made me think and i know we've talked</b><b>about some of that was maybe coping and all that</b><b>but it made i thought you were going to say</b><b>no i really did think you're going to say no i</b><b>i answered it wrong i said all the time i mean</b><b>all the time now okay so what i mean by that is okay</b><b>so yeah i'll explain so it's funny because when</b><b>i left cisco um it was the it was a path someone</b><b>offered me something someone came to me and they</b><b>were a small company and they said hey we'll give</b><b>you x percent of my business to come and join me</b><b>i was like holy shit this is great you know yeah</b><b>so you were going to be part owner of a business</b><b>basically correct of a partner um and i was like</b><b>i want to take that yeah you know and and uh and</b><b>so i do it and i leave and then i go i go back to</b><b>one of my cisco buddies who uh who's in channels</b><b>and he goes to me he goes i don't get it he goes</b><b>you guys this many employees you do about this much</b><b>in revenue how do you make any money and i was like</b><b>oh shit i didn't ask that question i just took</b><b>the job yeah i never asked the guy how you doing</b><b>and he said he was a good man his wife was an nba</b><b>so i was like we gotta be great yeah she's an nba</b><b>that turns out she was a scientist who also got an</b><b>nba oh did that's that question greg is sometimes</b><b>very much like oh cool go looks great that's the</b><b>confidence like i'll figure it out when i get there</b><b>and that was really my decision i was like if</b><b>i screw this up i'll go back to cisco or like</b><b>companies will hire me back i'm pretty good at</b><b>what i'm pretty good at this selling thing at that</b><b>point i had established i knew i i knew how to do</b><b>it you had a safety and then you begin to compare</b><b>yourself to others you're like okay like i we've</b><b>been in a room together this person and i personally</b><b>i can do this job with some of the best so</b><b>i'm good and that gave me confidence to make</b><b>take risks and i was reading this book called</b><b>right risk about a it was written by the guy who</b><b>jumped off of a uh a high dive into a like threw</b><b>a ring of fire into a pool and it was just about</b><b>calculating calculated risk so i'm like i can do</b><b>this this is not that risky um and so i got there</b><b>uh and the market crashed like two weeks later</b><b>so what uh was that uh 2008 yeah yeah yeah like</b><b>two weeks later okay shit and all tech spending</b><b>kind of dried up everything dried up you know and</b><b>it was like oh yeah yeah and my buddy had just</b><b>said yeah how do you guys make any money right</b><b>yeah and oh by the way like and i went from</b><b>making a lot of money to no money now my dad</b><b>had left cisco like he would love cisco but my dad</b><b>had always instilled in me a great deal of saving</b><b>even had mentors who would say if you can't live</b><b>on your base you know you're spending too much right</b><b>in sales and um so i'd saved a lot and i you know</b><b>i had a 401k from the day i started at work even</b><b>though i barely made any money because dad for</b><b>shoved that down my throat yeah and so at one</b><b>point i was like 31 years old and said to</b><b>myself like i have a 401k in a retirement none of my</b><b>friends do so so i've got a head start i could</b><b>stop putting money into those things so i'm fairly</b><b>analytical and mathematical guys i was like</b><b>oh wait a minute i'm doing a little i knew how</b><b>compounding worked and i'm like i'm gonna be</b><b>okay but that scared me like market crash how</b><b>you guys gonna make any money like that was a</b><b>real you are an idiot and so i literally took</b><b>almost no money in salary so that we could keep</b><b>employees for several months i'm like all right</b><b>don't pay me because i talked to the guy and he's</b><b>like yeah well we got some problems uh we're gonna</b><b>i'm like don't pay me put it like in arrears and</b><b>make sure these guys are all paid because we have</b><b>to keep the talent you know and what what did you</b><b>do what was the company is that same thing i do now</b><b>what which is what i got let's call it a</b><b>cisco reseller partner okay a company that brings</b><b>solutions to company to companies like hospitals</b><b>and schools and enterprises okay and we will sell</b><b>them the product we'll design the solution for</b><b>them we'll sell them the product we'll help them</b><b>in the implementation in areas that they</b><b>need okay and then we may manage it for them so</b><b>the full suite of services so that's what you</b><b>were doing when you took yeah you became a partner</b><b>you're gonna come be my vp of sales okay</b><b>okay with no sales guys okay working for a super</b><b>you know now that we understand how autism</b><b>works and as for like a very on that side of the</b><b>spectrum brilliant engineer but like right not a people right right um</b><b>and uh how long did you go where you weren't</b><b>taking a salary about three and a half months</b><b>i was like dude i need something and then and then i that i sold some shit</b><b>and revenue came in yeah and you know and um</b><b>and you know he had some weird practices and i was</b><b>like that's not gonna work man you know he was</b><b>like no they have to pay us first before we do</b><b>them like that's not gonna work i'm like i'm</b><b>calling on big boys yeah like you don't go to</b><b>big boys and say yeah this is how this works you</b><b>give me the money then i buy it they're like next</b><b>all the big boys back then were going from i'll</b><b>pay you in 30 days to can i pay you in 120 days</b><b>like everybody's stretching yeah everyone</b><b>stretches were tough days and so it's like well let's go</b><b>build a relationship with a creditor like or the</b><b>distributor like you just figure it out yeah you</b><b>know and so everything started to get better</b><b>but he and i had conflicts you know tough engineer</b><b>literally just didn't understand the way it</b><b>all works and would get in my stuff and and and</b><b>one time he's like i just watched you get out negotiated you're terrible like dude</b><b>stop listening to my phone call what are</b><b>we doing here yeah you know what i mean yeah</b><b>just didn't understand there was no trust</b><b>none they're not i don't think you trusted anyone</b><b>right right zero trust yeah um you know come</b><b>to find out i didn't know this he was adopted</b><b>come to find out that the reason the</b><b>company was in his wife's name is because he had</b><b>filed for bankruptcy twice already so we don't have any credit um and um yeah so uh</b><b>he's a pilot and we fly to a couple different</b><b>projects and he's telling me all these different</b><b>things and i'm getting to know him and i'm</b><b>trying to work through it but we're bumping heads like</b><b>shit what am i going to do about this and um</b><b>anyway you know we're working it out but i'm not</b><b>really ready to leave or anything i'm like i just</b><b>gotta figure this out uh and uh and he's like hey</b><b>let's i had landed uh tiger direct at the time</b><b>and he's like he's like let's go to chicago check</b><b>out one of the warehouses and from there we'll</b><b>fly to colorado we'll go skiing want to do that</b><b>and we'll work on the relationship and my</b><b>wife had an my girlfriend now wife had an event</b><b>and she was like this really awesome event</b><b>that you know her company was sponsoring this big</b><b>charity event she's like i'm like like i can't</b><b>dude i really didn't want to yeah i didn't want</b><b>to because it was like i don't want to sit on a</b><b>plane with you and you know and so he took one</b><b>of our other engineers they flew to chicago did</b><b>the job and then um and then they were supposed to</b><b>fly out the next day but he wanted to get there</b><b>he's like let's fly at the night so we could ski</b><b>in the morning um and they decided to leave at</b><b>like 11 p.m uh they left and at a thousand feet</b><b>didn't check in and he lost an engine and no he</b><b>died both of them both of them died yeah oh my goodness</b><b>wow so now i get a phone call like five in the</b><b>morning um from his uncle who was working for us</b><b>and he's like we lost him and uh also that's a</b><b>experience for you because that's a near-death</b><b>experience yeah totally someone was looking over</b><b>my dad was yeah that's a whole thing no question</b><b>wow no question i mean i've done a bunch of</b><b>stupid shit that like oh i was like almost</b><b>died right there well that's that's gen x</b><b>yeah yeah yeah boy i did like you know like hey i</b><b>shouldn't have i shouldn't have uh jumped off of</b><b>that you know how did i do that uh how did i dive</b><b>off of that platform 60 feet and not break my</b><b>back you know someone's looking out for me every</b><b>now and again i'm sorry but maybe maybe i should</b><b>make better decisions but um it was the bike rides</b><b>to tithe it was the tithing it was the tithing</b><b>it was the commitment but no but honestly that's</b><b>literally a near-death experience there's no</b><b>question no question i should have been on that</b><b>place yeah so what happens or and sometimes i</b><b>i think had i been there i'd have been like no</b><b>we're going to dinner we've had a long day i'm</b><b>not getting on this you know let's just go to</b><b>dinner and relax like dude we can have just as</b><b>good a time here you know do you torment yourself</b><b>with that kind of shit i was just about to say</b><b>have you flipped that that coin in your head a lot</b><b>no longer uh but sure for a while for a long</b><b>while yeah yeah yeah so um are you now in charge</b><b>of like after that happened then were you in</b><b>charge everyone's looking at me what do we do</b><b>high achiever again why don't we do i'm like fix</b><b>it fudge yeah what do we do like i don't know you</b><b>know i don't know what to do we we buried two</b><b>people we attended two funerals and i remember</b><b>going to lunch after the second funeral and</b><b>literally one person said so okay greg what's next</b><b>like someone wanted to know because like are</b><b>we gonna get paid and i part of me was like</b><b>but the truth is i had no like just like a</b><b>glimmer of ill will for the question it was more like i</b><b>was like i was i was a little upset because i had</b><b>to answer it yeah but not i didn't disrespect the</b><b>guy for asking i'm like you got to take care of</b><b>your family of course you want to know where your</b><b>next paycheck's coming you like working here you</b><b>just don't want to and um so we we held it together</b><b>uh his his his wife was in charge</b><b>his father comes out of retirement middle uh</b><b>middle management american express and he's like</b><b>uh i'll take over you can do what and i have no</b><b>at this point like 32 years old i don't know about</b><b>legal i don't like i'm just like what do i do and</b><b>you know we're talking about the guy with the one</b><b>finger type and click yeah click click he's he</b><b>has been retired for a while you know i'll take over</b><b>and you know the one thing i know how to do</b><b>is pick up the phone move the business forward</b><b>execute on what we've promised so it's just</b><b>really hard work for a little while and then</b><b>uh and then i asked them if i could buy it</b><b>how long between the the um plane crash and you</b><b>buying the company i didn't buy the company oh</b><b>okay i asked them yes oh okay because they made</b><b>it clear they were going to sell it so i said</b><b>well if you're going to sell it i'd like to buy it</b><b>i know everything about it i think i can make a fair offer</b><b>and uh five six months to answer your question</b><b>okay um but they they they were the ones just</b><b>like we're gonna sell um and unfortunately a</b><b>business broker got involved and promised the</b><b>world and set a price that i was unwilling to</b><b>pay but because i knew the financials i'm like</b><b>the financials i'm like i'm sorry sir dad it's</b><b>not worth that um and uh and i felt bad because you</b><b>know they'd come to me with some like weird i like</b><b>okay but you can only buy 75 but you can't do this</b><b>you're like all these kind of wonky rules and it</b><b>was a first time for them you know and i felt bad</b><b>for his wife because she's grieving i'm like you</b><b>need it like you have two kids like you guys need</b><b>to go deal like i've been through some of this</b><b>like you need to go deal and they didn't you know</b><b>they they were like nope heads down and they're</b><b>like cool you should go grieve and uh and and i</b><b>think they had they had a lot of trust in the</b><b>father to to do things but yeah it wasn't like he</b><b>someone had put a bug in his ear and what he</b><b>thought it could be worth and i was like i'm</b><b>not gonna pay that in there like i think you</b><b>need to leave wow so they brought in a broker</b><b>to come value the business the broker overvalued</b><b>it and you were like and then they started playing</b><b>games yeah i don't even think the broker did a</b><b>real valuation yeah i think the broker took some</b><b>bad some relatively miscellaneous data yeah and</b><b>like we knew like we knew how the books worked</b><b>really well like i know how the books work i knew how the books work so</b><b>and then they asked you to leave they asked me to</b><b>leave and and unfortunately said and i don't see</b><b>your name on any of this paperwork so your name</b><b>was number two anything greg did a lot of this on a</b><b>handshake i don't know why i refer to myself in</b><b>the third person that sounds stupid but the yeah i</b><b>just i did this on handshakes because you were</b><b>also yeah by the way there's only a couple like i was</b><b>even in like a really like a year into this</b><b>journey with this guy so we just like hey let's</b><b>we'll get to it we'll get to it we'll get to it</b><b>it wasn't it wasn't that i was foolish and said</b><b>oh i'll just handshake this we just got to work</b><b>yeah yeah and um and we were working and you know</b><b>and like okay like we could do this and yeah</b><b>you know we'll go settle it down that was a stupid</b><b>thing to do uh in retrospect but but you were</b><b>young honestly honestly it worked out a lot of</b><b>31 year olds dealing with this like it's crazy</b><b>but it worked out because the entanglement for</b><b>you was far less you could probably walk away i'm</b><b>sure we're gonna get there in two minutes but you</b><b>could just you could leave and not have any</b><b>strings attached correct yeah yeah so only guilt only</b><b>only if you have if you're willing to take that on</b><b>guilt because i'm honestly i'm looking at a single</b><b>mom yeah with who's dealing with a lot and</b><b>and i just was like man this is so hard on her</b><b>what happened to the company they sold it uh you</b><b>know they they they really wanted to keep the name</b><b>which i understand the pride piece you know but</b><b>they so they sold it to this these guys who had</b><b>a small company down in miami uh and it cratered</b><b>in less than a year oh that's horrible i mean i</b><b>was the engine they just didn't recognize they</b><b>you know yeah they didn't recognize it yeah and</b><b>i was like you know the the reality is is in a</b><b>small business especially a startup like that</b><b>i was sales guy project manager service</b><b>delivery leader like the only thing i didn't do is the</b><b>actual engineering yeah you know but i still put</b><b>the people in positions to be like hey you need</b><b>to go here this guy needs this you need this well</b><b>that's that disruption you talked about with and</b><b>then would trigger or ignite or spark the</b><b>growth mindset so you had this disruption you leave</b><b>cisco you leave that linear path yeah and then</b><b>talk about the exact opposite path like it's all</b><b>over it's like it's like a scribble page of the</b><b>path but i'm sure it challenged you you were super</b><b>uncomfortable you had to get creative you know</b><b>you had to get scrappy and and then you go through</b><b>this whole emotional thing with this near-death</b><b>experience and then this guilt and this wife with</b><b>this uh mom with these two kids so what a what an</b><b>experience and you're still so young in your life</b><b>going through all that but during this time you</b><b>also met your current wife right yeah so we had</b><b>started dating so how did you meet her oh okay so</b><b>um uh well the way it works is that uh we connected</b><b>on facebook and it happens to be that her</b><b>name and my mom's name are the same oh wow</b><b>so i've been at a piss complex clearly and um</b><b>and uh so uh so at the time my mom had joined this</b><b>singles sailing club cool exciting right like</b><b>i was like great mom great way to meet people</b><b>sailing singles was she still over on the west</b><b>coast yes yes um and um so that's cool yeah i'm</b><b>like good for you mom and at the same time my</b><b>wife had started a clothing company oh cool the</b><b>clothing company was called real naughty spelled</b><b>r-e-e-l-n-a-u-t-i okay which i think is brilliant</b><b>yeah by the way like yeah i still think there's</b><b>possibility there like yeah she's like a fizzled</b><b>and i'm like man that name is so money anyway um</b><b>hopefully trying to give it to our oldest like hey</b><b>can you run with this i hope i assume you own the</b><b>domain yeah i think we can i think we own that we</b><b>own the trademark i yeah i think she owns the</b><b>domain no she owns the domain because we still</b><b>gets an email there good so get an email before</b><b>we put this right so i get an email hey everybody</b><b>i'm getting off facebook you can find me at this</b><b>email to which i reply mom what the hell is this</b><b>organization you joined but that that i can't</b><b>believe this this is terrible blah blah blah</b><b>to which i get a reply not your mother that is</b><b>quite an first impression yeah i mean we so here</b><b>so it's funny like we're from the same hometown</b><b>our parents worked together oh my gosh we hooked up</b><b>and the part she loves more than anything else</b><b>yeah is that she's shown our daughters and our</b><b>daughters she has a yearbook and there i am</b><b>with a big circle around me and the word asshole</b><b>wait when did you guys hook up i mean we kissed</b><b>her so you know back in eighth grade or you know</b><b>what i mean we're actually let me rephrase</b><b>i tried and she shot me down i'm sorry honey</b><b>so was she at the public school with you or the</b><b>private school um the cath the catholic school</b><b>okay so you knew her but then weren't in</b><b>contact with her not really yeah until you thought she</b><b>was your mom on facebook uh yeah until i got that</b><b>email yeah and then i go i'm so sorry okay okay can</b><b>i buy you a glass of wine say okay you know oh</b><b>that was your so that was like let me take you out let</b><b>me take it for glass one i'm so sorry i think i</b><b>had and i had known that's awesome i think i had</b><b>known that she had had a child as well wait were</b><b>you guys facebook friends because of knowing each</b><b>other back in middle school i mean back then like</b><b>facebook was just starting like you just connected</b><b>okay it was just like you know one degree of</b><b>separation okay so when you still have a big</b><b>same circle of friends okay so when you responded</b><b>back she knew who you were you weren't just this</b><b>guy okay okay so you take her out and like i said</b><b>our parents work together like we know each other</b><b>right okay see there's so you were you were</b><b>vetted yeah i was vetted when you asked her out</b><b>so why i often tell i tell the version i tell</b><b>my daughters is that your mom's been chasing me</b><b>the whole time yeah all right so we're clear</b><b>wait did you ever get an answer why she wrote</b><b>asshole next to your picture you know what it's</b><b>so funny we all just laugh about it and i probably</b><b>go well the answer is because i was so but i</b><b>wonder what triggered her to do that because</b><b>you know that's a great question and i will</b><b>go ask her that this evening you did something</b><b>because a girl doesn't just do that randomly you</b><b>there's that's a result of something you did something</b><b>don't stir the pot here we they got a good thing</b><b>going here thank you uh that's wonderful i'm going</b><b>to chase okay so the girls are gonna love this so</b><b>you so you guys go out and was that it from that</b><b>glass wine and and we kind of just started</b><b>talking and realized like similar journeys i was so</b><b>impressed with like you know she was 21 but she</b><b>had her daughter she had her daughter and she just</b><b>rolled up her sleeves and said i got this did</b><b>she marry the father no okay she just made it</b><b>she tried to make it work but she also made a</b><b>decision she's like this isn't the guy for me</b><b>yeah she was so courageous she was like i'll do</b><b>this on my own was she in college at the time no</b><b>had she been like no like okay her journey was</b><b>different she didn't go straight to college she's</b><b>a little she like at one point she'd like</b><b>bounced around and traveled and went to fish shows nice</b><b>she's a she's a hippie i call her a rich hippie</b><b>now but she's a hippie you know what i mean she</b><b>wears the she wears the fancy clothes but they</b><b>still look hippie-ish yeah isn't that great right</b><b>you know we're dead hosts right yeah totally like</b><b>she would love to say no more i understand but you</b><b>know what i mean but now the clothes are nicer</b><b>and they're softer and they fit better and yeah</b><b>that's fucking awesome she like used to make her</b><b>own clothes like while she was on the road nice</b><b>that's awesome she like sinus high school she</b><b>like left like she's like i gotta i gotta i gotta</b><b>do me yeah and so i had just so much respect it</b><b>reminded me of my mom she's like that tough like</b><b>i'm gonna figure this out i just had such so</b><b>much respect for that and so that endeared me to her</b><b>and then we just got to know each other and we</b><b>had just these really interesting things in comments</b><b>like she's a thespian our love for theater is</b><b>the same like one of our like our second or third</b><b>date i think she took me to a hurricanes football</b><b>game nice nice yeah and like and her is so funny</b><b>you're like went to this game she's got this</b><b>friend who's like who are you i don't like you</b><b>like always protect your vioza i don't like you</b><b>who are you what are you trying to do with my friend</b><b>and i'm like you're crazy and she's like and and</b><b>then it was so funny you tailgate and everybody</b><b>gets tuned up is so funny because her brother</b><b>is really protective like he's several years</b><b>younger than her but like is tough marine</b><b>stuff and we get hammered and he and his buddy are</b><b>trying to kick my ass like not like trying but</b><b>like like male wrestle me yeah and they and they're</b><b>so drunk they're running at me and i'm like oh</b><b>like a bull fight whoa they would fall on the ground</b><b>it was like this is hysterical you know like it</b><b>was just and it was it was fun it was and it was</b><b>it was family you know it was like it was</b><b>it's always for jody it's always about family</b><b>and um i love that about it she she brought that</b><b>like that absolutely to your world and it made me</b><b>realize i didn't even know that like i didn't</b><b>know what i what it is like what i wanted but like to</b><b>me family is so important she comes from an</b><b>amazing family not that mine isn't but like</b><b>they're big strong you know they've got their</b><b>own issues for sure everyone does but like big</b><b>strong family and care very much about that like</b><b>old irish catholic you know well she accepted your</b><b>daughter too she did as her own she did very much</b><b>so it's really cool and and and and inspired me to</b><b>to be the same so she knew you had a</b><b>daughter too oh yeah you guys yeah it was first date</b><b>was the first date was the whole thing like hey</b><b>what is the whole thing with parenting yada yada</b><b>so how long did you guys date before you got engaged</b><b>i get this answer wrong you know so much trouble</b><b>um can i just say a couple years sure okay great</b><b>sure sure and you guys did you live together</b><b>before yeah so we did like we did like a year</b><b>of dating and then a year living together um i</b><b>always say people should live together before</b><b>they get married but that year of living</b><b>together was with her daughter very tumultuous and then</b><b>your daughter yeah yeah so if you could get</b><b>through that you can handle marriage yeah the two of you</b><b>like that was a great test yeah it was like if</b><b>we can do this and we still you know it's so funny</b><b>is we still had a lot of fun because the</b><b>girls were old enough we could leave so our dating</b><b>experience was fun because we were living</b><b>together we were living in east fort lauderdale we rented</b><b>this home in east fort lauderdale and so she and</b><b>i would go out for date night a lot and we'd have</b><b>fun and like i'd come home and scare the kids</b><b>i'd like this skull mask and i would like i'd call</b><b>the girls like hey we're gonna be about 30 minutes</b><b>you guys good and then i would immediately man yeah</b><b>yeah it's great i got halloween's big man</b><b>so was there school in east fort lauderdale</b><b>they went to heritage okay yeah okay and that's</b><b>why we ended up we ended up moving it's like when</b><b>we then we were like okay well this doesn't work</b><b>for us yeah so we moved west to plantation because</b><b>jody's like i just don't want my daughter</b><b>driving on i 95 like i don't want to have to drive all</b><b>the way out to plant and then when she's old</b><b>enough to drive i don't want her on 595 all the</b><b>time like she's always she puts the girls first</b><b>always like there's it's never you're not even it</b><b>is not even a discussion the girls the girls first</b><b>always she puts everyone sometimes i wish she was</b><b>more selfish i'm like be more selfish you're</b><b>allowed to you know you always put everyone else</b><b>in front of your own needs but that's who she is</b><b>and um so yeah we moved to plantation and then we</b><b>finally bought our home that we were in</b><b>plantation for about 10 years okay yeah and what did she do</b><b>for living during those years she's in</b><b>marketing she worked for a construction company and ran</b><b>their marketing okay group yeah and then when</b><b>everything kind of fell apart with that company</b><b>and you left um she was there she was there</b><b>supporting you you had that and it makes me feel</b><b>like that's the first time because you've had</b><b>a lot of those moments where things have just</b><b>yeah and it's the first time you had a partner</b><b>there to a rock supporting you so that that that's</b><b>really nice you can do this yeah that you had</b><b>that you had that um like if you don't i got you</b><b>you know were you guys married yet or just stayed</b><b>so you weren't were you guys living together when</b><b>all that happened okay and then um yeah a lot of</b><b>steps together you had that so much going on and</b><b>then living together and then the two girls so</b><b>a lot of you guys went through a lot even before</b><b>getting married you know it's interesting i</b><b>remember you said that she's comes from this</b><b>military family and is very black and white but</b><b>yet that's such a contrast to a fish head yeah</b><b>but you know if you meld them it's a great</b><b>combination if you meld that sure that those</b><b>two aspects of a personality it's very balanced yeah you know yeah she's uh um</b><b>um yeah because like as an example during</b><b>covid you she said she's like let's just take off</b><b>and we drove she was like let's go to maine</b><b>and we just let's grab the girls let's grab</b><b>not the girls because the other two were in college</b><b>and she's like screw it we'll if you don't have to</b><b>be anywhere let's just go up there and we stayed</b><b>in a family their family home in maine for like</b><b>almost two months trying to drink covid was</b><b>great that's awesome yeah super and it was her idea</b><b>like let's just go yeah and so she's got that you</b><b>know that sort of peace love happiness adventure</b><b>vibe about her yeah sometimes um when things</b><b>are in order and organized and have a system it</b><b>actually creates the space to be spontaneous</b><b>and adventurous yeah because everything's kind of</b><b>taken care of so now you can bounce off that</b><b>strong foundation and go have some fun yeah so</b><b>that's why it's a nice little balance so um</b><b>where'd you guys get married uh island marauda nice yeah</b><b>and uh then had you taken in your next step</b><b>professionally before you guys got married</b><b>or were you still in limbo no no i um before i i</b><b>think i had yeah no so so i had started the company</b><b>the company you own today yeah so what is so</b><b>how long from the time you stopped at that other</b><b>company to you starting your new company how much</b><b>time 30 days okay so you went for it all right for</b><b>it so did you kind of already know there's a mall</b><b>again okay there's a mall again okay you know what</b><b>a mall again is no in golf you hit a bad shot okay</b><b>and you just put another one down and hit a second</b><b>one okay okay forget about that one i was waiting</b><b>for him to kind of maybe explain that i'm glad you</b><b>said something we take a few of them don't we</b><b>i never take them when i'm golfing yes because</b><b>you're very good yes he he can tell when i don't</b><b>know something but usually i asked but i thought</b><b>he was going to explain okay okay yeah so so</b><b>i quickly said i can do this okay um and if i</b><b>don't i don't and um we went i went and got</b><b>you know i have a business partner he and i</b><b>worked on together i said let's go with the</b><b>financing worked out so so we can make a transaction</b><b>um and let's find a couple very key very important people two really amazing dudes</b><b>um who are brilliant and i loved you know</b><b>loved every minute working with those guys</b><b>and um yeah we brought them on and said start</b><b>and we got one account we got a second account</b><b>what's the name of your company grayson</b><b>technologies okay and that was what like 15 years ago 15 and</b><b>a half yeah it's been that long yeah wow thank</b><b>you thank you that's amazing it really is amazing</b><b>i mean you think about it like if you</b><b>think about how what brought you to that point</b><b>but i'm still wondering where's the imposter</b><b>syndrome because it doesn't sound like there's</b><b>any imposter syndrome when i'm by myself you know there</b><b>you know i i want you know we live in an</b><b>industry of very big boys billion-dollar companies</b><b>multi-billion dollar companies you see growth</b><b>all around you whether it be real fake linkedin or</b><b>what you know you you see it all around you</b><b>and so every now and again you know i go am i</b><b>you know can you know am i good enough yeah</b><b>i'll ask myself and then i'm on boards and i'll sit</b><b>in boards with some really big time folks that</b><b>gives me the occasional imposter so i'm like do</b><b>i know shit or you know but but you know what's</b><b>funny is i go through some of it and then i also</b><b>spend some time with some big hitters and you</b><b>go they don't know what they're doing either</b><b>i mean we do but we also don't and i was i</b><b>thought you guys would get a kick out of this</b><b>i uh was texting a buddy of mine i was a part of</b><b>an organization that brings entrepreneurs together</b><b>and then within that you get into these small</b><b>circles it's called entrepreneur's organization</b><b>and you get into this forum and my forum mates</b><b>you you get really close to these guys and uh</b><b>and i've gotten super close with my foreign</b><b>mates and um i was texting one of them who is</b><b>now one of he's like my brother and um he's my</b><b>little bro and um i text him like oh man you ever</b><b>have one of those days where you just want to</b><b>kill everybody you know and we're joking right</b><b>you're just like everything like every person</b><b>in your path you just want to have it's just</b><b>it's agitated confrontation he goes like</b><b>tuesday's i go it's very funny i go tuesday's</b><b>tend to be tougher um and we were joking and</b><b>he goes and then you know he i'll read it to you</b><b>because it was just it was just so right you</b><b>know and i and i man it's so accurate and he goes um</b><b>he wrote uh i'm sorry for the delay no you're</b><b>fine he goes because i said to him like man and</b><b>you know you're having one of these things and</b><b>and you're you're working on your planning it</b><b>tends to pop up when you're working on your</b><b>planning because when you're working on your</b><b>planning you do start to talk about your awards</b><b>what do you want to fix right when you want to</b><b>when you say what do you want to fix you're admitting that these things are wrong</b><b>and and it's really funny because i i think</b><b>everyone thinks that ceo's and entrepreneurs</b><b>like have it figured out and i we don't right and</b><b>some we have some things figured out i mean we're</b><b>not you know making it up but but like you want</b><b>to fix your words and i go and i go yeah man and</b><b>and i'm like and i said oh my god yeah this</b><b>planning and he's really like how the fuck is</b><b>this still a problem and he replies and then i</b><b>go with how did i let it get this way which is</b><b>followed by why do i fucking suck which is</b><b>followed by i hate myself which is followed</b><b>by a long joint and a long walk and it's</b><b>interesting because i think what people don't</b><b>realize sorry i think what people don't realize</b><b>is especially entrepreneurs and business owners</b><b>you do blame yourself you're like i'm responsible</b><b>for everything no matter what and so if someone's</b><b>failing it's my fault it's ultimately always</b><b>my fault that's what the captain of the team is</b><b>supposed to think about right it's like i'm responsible for everyone's success</b><b>and they're accountable to what they need to do i</b><b>believe that like hey your professionals go be it</b><b>but the reality is is you know i always first say</b><b>to myself like did i fail them am i not coaching</b><b>them right am i not holding them accountable am</b><b>i not doing this mike shashevsky talks about this</b><b>a lot in his book where one of his coaches would</b><b>come up to him and say something to the effect of</b><b>like hey coach that player he just doesn't have it</b><b>and he'll be like did you coach him yeah i coached</b><b>him where did you coach him how did you coach him</b><b>what was going on in his life when you coached them</b><b>and it made me think like oh that's interesting in that</b><b>to connect to someone there's a lot more going on</b><b>and and oftentimes we say well i told them what to</b><b>do and they didn't get it and that's their</b><b>fault bullshit i don't believe that at all because i</b><b>really feel like you have to understand where</b><b>someone's at in the journey because like if you're</b><b>a good coach you're gonna figure out a way to crack</b><b>that nut in some way shape or form if you're a good</b><b>coach you're going to improve that person in</b><b>some way shape or form and you may not get what you</b><b>want ultimately and and of course there's always</b><b>that like someone may not want it someone may not</b><b>get it someone may not have passion for it so</b><b>there's reasons why someone may not work out</b><b>but i think we often um we often don't reflect</b><b>or don't not a lot of people think about it that</b><b>way but i do think a lot of entrepreneurs think</b><b>the way me and my my friend do where it's like</b><b>you blame yourself if you're not connected if</b><b>you're not getting the best out of people it's</b><b>almost like you guys take imposter syndrome</b><b>and then lead it to that leads to self-aware</b><b>awareness which leads to accountability you guys use it as a positive tool</b><b>to then look inward on yourselves and how can you</b><b>do better for the people that work for you or for</b><b>what you're responsible for but it doesn't</b><b>derail you it doesn't stop you it doesn't um</b><b>make you question yourself so much you lose</b><b>confidence and you give up it actually motivates</b><b>you to do better not at first it didn't so when jd says i've grown</b><b>the the truth is at first it's very lonely so</b><b>that person that i'm referring to who wrote that text</b><b>he and i are 15 years into our journeys each</b><b>right i remember when he and i talked about joining</b><b>this forum and i told him about my business</b><b>he's like damn can i come work for you and now he</b><b>kills me in his business um but for several</b><b>years there uh there was a window where i got</b><b>you're lonely there's no one you can like when</b><b>things aren't going well there's no one you can</b><b>really talk to that's why you have these</b><b>organizations you know that's why they exist</b><b>really and so um you know people often talk about</b><b>how lonely it is at the top and um you know what i</b><b>i did not have strong emotional intelligence</b><b>and did not have great awareness and i had a crazy</b><b>teenage daughter's in the house and there's a</b><b>lot going on right and and i saw and there and i</b><b>definitely had a period where i didn't handle it</b><b>well and i was disruptive and it stalled us and it</b><b>rubbed people wrong way and i candidly i i i</b><b>hurt a good relationship in my life because of that</b><b>right because my the poor way i handled things</b><b>like one of my best friends who became a friend</b><b>instead of one of my best friends just because</b><b>of the way i treated him and uh and i had to learn</b><b>from that and and it's therapy like i'm a big</b><b>fan big fan of just any type of therapy i've</b><b>met with four or five different kinds at</b><b>different times in my life just because i feel like that's</b><b>like therapy's a really cool way to just</b><b>vent without judgment and i think that's just</b><b>therapeutic in and of itself yes okay but i i</b><b>definitely met someone along the way who's like</b><b>let's let's break down your personality so i</b><b>started doing personality tests and like you</b><b>understand like this is your fight or</b><b>flight and that's why you're acting this way and</b><b>for me when someone started showing me the way</b><b>the puzzle was put together it made it very easy</b><b>for me to go cool i don't have to do that again</b><b>and i started thinking and reading a little bit</b><b>about stoicism and and really just kind of</b><b>trying to be less emotional more thoughtful</b><b>about the things i do now i'm still an italian crazy man who will be passionate</b><b>sometimes a little a little impatient and every now and again you know yeah but um</b><b>but you know the loneliness is you know like the</b><b>why do i suck i hate myself like that's a glimmer</b><b>like you know that what that used to be long</b><b>and hurtful and you know like when you're hurt</b><b>you have a fight response right or fight or flight</b><b>response like for me my response was like i'm gonna</b><b>i'm gonna be combative many people get distant</b><b>and and then their businesses will fail because</b><b>they run away from them they'll just ignore them</b><b>plot their head in their sand so so you know it</b><b>took me a while to learn how to be better at</b><b>dealing with it but you know when i get into a</b><b>dark place about anything going on i just remind</b><b>myself that like i am so lucky to have this stress</b><b>so many people would trade me to be like i'd love to know what that looks like</b><b>it sucks yeah but they'd love to know what</b><b>it looks like you know to have the journey</b><b>and to learn from it and so i've been you know</b><b>it helps me snap out of my dark place to remind</b><b>myself it's pretty cool that's such a great</b><b>perspective to think about when you're really</b><b>under stress because as a result of something</b><b>that you're working hard on that so many people</b><b>would love to have this kind of stress that's</b><b>such a great perspective that is such a great</b><b>perspective and i mean the growth the growth</b><b>you've gone through when you do have those moments</b><b>and like you said it's almost like a snapshot</b><b>now it's it doesn't take you down where for a super</b><b>long length of time but are those moments also</b><b>positive for you because it shows you how far</b><b>you've come yeah um yeah those are pretty neat uh</b><b>like i i've shared something so i uh had a moment</b><b>today this is a really neat thing for me so my</b><b>daughter's helping the business out a little bit</b><b>from a recruiting perspective it's her</b><b>background while she's doing her MBA and um but she gets</b><b>invited to company events if you will we had a</b><b>big all hands today and i i try to you know tell the</b><b>team how we did what we're working on and and</b><b>really try to connect the dots on some motivation</b><b>and she called me right after she's literally</b><b>tearing up she's like that that's one of the</b><b>coolest that you know like she's like she</b><b>got to see dad at work now i i don't know if my</b><b>employees thought it was as cool but for her to</b><b>see it for the first time you know that was really</b><b>nice that's awesome yeah it was really cool</b><b>experiences and so yeah yeah like i don't how</b><b>do you else to introduce the kids to work right</b><b>that's not always the easiest thing i think uh</b><b>sometimes i think we often think what we do</b><b>is boring yeah right like try to tell the story</b><b>about building networks yeah yeah right that's</b><b>cool yeah let me show you my whiteboard yeah you</b><b>understand this packet yeah like no so um</b><b>that's funny right so so um yeah and so that that's a</b><b>great moment yeah and and that those are the</b><b>little things that that that help um also like</b><b>i've seen some people leave the organization</b><b>and grow and be better that you know not always is</b><b>everyone going to recognize the skills they've</b><b>developed you know like they may i don't need the</b><b>credit but like when i see someone else be</b><b>successful i think that i've taught them some</b><b>of that and like that's what i really hope for</b><b>the people around me that they're all growing in</b><b>some way shape or form that's the hardest</b><b>thing and what's really hard is like i want to grow</b><b>bigger so that i have more responsibility to offer</b><b>people so whenever i'm not growing as fast as i want</b><b>part of it's like you know i want to be able to</b><b>offer more yeah to the team so they can continue</b><b>to grow right and there's like only some</b><b>sometimes there's limitations in that because like revenue</b><b>is revenue and if you can't just give over a whole</b><b>bunch of people a bunch of jobs if there's no money</b><b>around and you know that kind of stuff and uh and</b><b>so sometimes they have to leave to go find their</b><b>other journey but i i hope i hope that over time uh</b><b>the people that have been through the organization</b><b>have grown um and will use something that they</b><b>learned yeah in some way shape or form in another</b><b>place i'm sure their experience that um your</b><b>company has been pivotal to hope the trajectory</b><b>of their life there's no question about it and i</b><b>think your intent with your company is so authentic</b><b>and um and positive that you're wanting to grow</b><b>it so you can give more to the people that that</b><b>work for you that's your intent i mean that's</b><b>just such a that there's i'm not surprised you're</b><b>successful and that you've lasted this long</b><b>because of the authenticity and because of your</b><b>intent so many companies so many ceos you can't</b><b>necessarily say that about so i think that says a</b><b>lot for for where you are i have a question</b><b>though how does this tie back to imposter syndrome</b><b>yeah so i think the imposter syndrome is is is when we're not growing</b><b>you know like do you think that's a you've</b><b>grown your business you've i know people that you've</b><b>developed people i've seen them go from you</b><b>know i've seen their growth right um i think you've</b><b>made a lot of people a lot of money i think</b><b>you've developed or deployed some some really killer</b><b>solutions right so you you for all intents and</b><b>purposes you've made it and you continue to make</b><b>it you continue to involve evolve i just wonder</b><b>if that's an expectation you're putting on yourself</b><b>to not necessarily accept that you've done some</b><b>really cool shit that's a thousand like it it the</b><b>like uh why my wife talks about like you're not</b><b>fair to yourself you're you're you're uh what's that</b><b>what's your own worst enemy not your own worst</b><b>enemy but your harshest critic harshest critic yeah</b><b>i had a friend a friend of hers really touched me</b><b>one time i was really having a tough tough tough</b><b>tough go of it for several months and and shit</b><b>some friends in from london and uh and it's her</b><b>best friend and they live in london and her</b><b>husband is this is really surreal you'd love this</b><b>dude he's a quick oh it's really important you</b><b>know you're one of those and i'm like okay you</b><b>sound really smart right like but he is</b><b>brilliant but he's brilliant and he's gone through some</b><b>life experiences and what's really funny is i'm</b><b>like you guys go down to the keys i'll meet you</b><b>there i got you to do blah blah blah and i'm</b><b>like rush rush rush rush rush rush rush rush rush</b><b>and i drive down and i leave the suitcases</b><b>at the house hour and a half two hour drive</b><b>and i'm like i'm just gonna turn around i'll</b><b>just deal with it i'm gonna drive two hours and two</b><b>hours you know eight to ten oh my man nighter</b><b>you know i'm just gonna deal with it and i remember</b><b>talking to me and mark's like be kind to yourself</b><b>mate he's like you're not being kind to yourself</b><b>you got a lot going on and he's giving me this</b><b>whole thing and i was like i've i've kept that</b><b>a lot anytime i'm being really hard and i get a</b><b>lot of people that know me really well or no i i i</b><b>kick my own butt a lot so i maybe i'm calling it</b><b>imposter syndrome but but you know sometimes you</b><b>wonder if you know like yeah like you know you</b><b>like people like you're an entrepreneur i'm like i</b><b>started one business you know what i mean like i</b><b>didn't i had a desperation because this guy passed</b><b>yeah but again you're 15 years in yeah yeah</b><b>so yeah like you got taking stock in that yeah</b><b>you just got to do it sometimes because we are</b><b>a harshest critic but also i always say like to</b><b>remind myself treat yourself give do onto</b><b>yourself the advice you would give to your best friend</b><b>so what would i say if if i was my best friend</b><b>what would i how would i treat myself and what</b><b>advice would i give myself i need to follow i</b><b>need to treat myself as good as i would treat my best</b><b>friend right that's hard yeah because we give to</b><b>our friends and to our family and then turn don't</b><b>even think about ourselves no we never think</b><b>about ourselves no i mean i get mad at my wife because</b><b>i'm like you don't think about yourself like she</b><b>could look literally reverse it exactly like in</b><b>many respects yeah absolutely which is funny</b><b>about my buddy's text back to me because yeah</b><b>it's just so raw and honest right yeah and then</b><b>i'm like practice when i'm like practice and then</b><b>i go smoke a joint take a walk and i'm like yes</b><b>he's right though he's right he's right i just</b><b>go through the emotional ladder like bang bang</b><b>bang bang and then you take a moment and sometimes</b><b>by the way walking we talked about that like yeah</b><b>wow it's huge wish i would have wish i would have</b><b>realized that was amazing i know it worked out</b><b>but walking i'll for me it's blinkest like i listen</b><b>i do i do those little micro learning yeah and</b><b>it even helped me today like i i listened to this</b><b>thing called the science of leadership and i</b><b>just kind of went through it i was like oh that's</b><b>really interesting and and uh it i pivoted a</b><b>large part of my presentation today based on what i</b><b>learned on my walk at 6 30 in the morning yeah</b><b>no walking's insane i i think we mentioned it in</b><b>almost every episode somehow walking comes up</b><b>it's such a gift so um so you sent two off to college</b><b>yeah and that happened a few years apart right</b><b>they're four years apart yeah so you get one off</b><b>another one through high school another one off</b><b>to college yeah so then we're are you empty nesters</b><b>were you empty nesters or never after yes we have a</b><b>10-year-old okay so we skipped that part yeah i know</b><b>between there there's another yeah yeah so then so</b><b>so let's let's so you guys get married you've got</b><b>your middle school your high school you're</b><b>humming along right we've recently like a year later a</b><b>year later well a year and a half later so we we</b><b>decided we looked at each other we're like should</b><b>we have a kid like i don't know like life's</b><b>pretty good and we're gonna be empty nesters in like</b><b>three or four years and should we should we not</b><b>or it's like should we should we not should we</b><b>should we not in my head i'm like why don't we</b><b>get married if i'm not gonna have a job right</b><b>and so we're like all right let's practice</b><b>let's practice it turns out we're both very fertile</b><b>people because like a day later she's like a bride</b><b>right um that's a good problem right it is a good</b><b>problem we're very blessed and uh and you know</b><b>pressley was born healthy happy absolutely unified</b><b>at the time the girls weren't that close but</b><b>having a sister that they share oh yeah oh my</b><b>little and she is she's just the most perfect</b><b>blend of the two of us you know she is as sweet</b><b>and nice as the like anyone it's just so sweet</b><b>and nice absolute kook hysterical and the kids</b><b>at school rip her apart because they all want to</b><b>spend time so like she's the best yeah and um and</b><b>it and we have just been like and and by the way</b><b>like when the girls were young and pressley was</b><b>young we had built in babysitters so actually the</b><b>first like yeah three four five years of uh jody</b><b>and i were he was a great parent yeah we went out</b><b>on dates all the time right now they both went to</b><b>school not as easy now but how it's expensive</b><b>i gotta buy i get any babysitters are expensive</b><b>they are they are what a racket what how</b><b>wonderful though honestly because i always say because we</b><b>have a we have a bonus baby so and our oldest</b><b>and him are 13 years apart and our um daughter and</b><b>him are 10 years apart um but i always say i</b><b>didn't know our family wasn't complete until we had him</b><b>and then our family's complete but for you guys</b><b>what a beautiful unifying experience like you said</b><b>for the girls and um i'm sure pressley's the</b><b>most parented child out of the whole family because</b><b>all of you the other people are like what yeah</b><b>it's like your favorite yeah well don't tell anyone</b><b>yeah so um we get into that too have they um</b><b>because are they both out of college now yes</b><b>one's in uh one's engaged oh congratulations</b><b>yeah the oldest is engaged so exciting and uh</b><b>super dude that's awesome dude that's awesome um</b><b>so happy the other one is in madrid wow and with</b><b>another super dude nice doing a master's</b><b>program oh that's awesome so and she's thriving and so</b><b>we are pinchers we're we're so blessed right now</b><b>now where does your older one live uh north carolina</b><b>okay and so how often do you guys all it gets</b><b>we um we try to do once a year all all five of us</b><b>um not as often the short answer is not as often</b><b>as we want yeah and with the middle moving to um</b><b>to madrid that's going to make things super</b><b>complicated although in november we're going</b><b>to see her oh exciting yeah she just got there</b><b>a couple months ago so we'll go there and we're</b><b>going to meet the boyfriend's family is he</b><b>from there yeah so he was an exchange student at</b><b>indiana university where she went and that's</b><b>how they met senior year and so they fell in love</b><b>then they did a little long distance stuff so</b><b>last christmas we all went to uh we've got a</b><b>home in the north carolina mountains we all went</b><b>to north carolina mountains and we hung out and uh</b><b>it was amazing that's like it was amazing it was</b><b>uh the oldest and her fiance that's where he asked</b><b>her oh on the deck of the home so you guys</b><b>were there right there yeah it's like hallmark</b><b>it's really sweet it really was that's awesome</b><b>it's really was he was so nervous you know he was</b><b>like this like burning the pot burning in my</b><b>pocket did he ask permission he did oh and i said</b><b>you asked the wrong person because he asked me he</b><b>asked me anyway he's like greg i want to do this</b><b>and i was like what and i told jody and then</b><b>somewhat jody's like he's supposed to ask me</b><b>and i go you're absolutely right yeah so that</b><b>he i called him i'm like yo dude he's like you're</b><b>right so he fixed that um wonderful and they um</b><b>and then we had a big family like they did a big</b><b>family reunion like 25 of us or so recently in</b><b>maine and they asked me to uh officiate the wedding</b><b>oh uh cool wonderful it would be your</b><b>first one yeah i gotta go do some stuff don't i</b><b>i didn't think about that i mean call gd when uh</b><b>it's they don't have a date june july next year</b><b>or something they they haven't landed on the</b><b>exact same date you have some time i do to pull</b><b>together so that's lovely yeah it's really great</b><b>so i mean it's just so you but you guys are also</b><b>actively parenting a 10 year old i know we're</b><b>gonna be we we joke we'll be grandparents and</b><b>have like a teenager yeah but then the</b><b>teenager will have a baby to hang when she sees her so</b><b>interesting i wonder how this is gonna go like</b><b>when my wife's oldest has the first grandchild</b><b>like i'm like i keep saying to myself like</b><b>am i ever gonna like jody's gonna be on a plane</b><b>gone thank you they're going to be there right</b><b>so it's gonna be really interesting on how this</b><b>all works yeah um press and i like our relationship</b><b>is amazing like we do we do a lot of cool stuff</b><b>together so we're you know yeah it's it's gonna</b><b>be great like i i mean it'll be a blessing we'll</b><b>figure it out but you will but yeah we're trying</b><b>to do like a vacation individually with each kid</b><b>and then we try to do one everyone that kind of</b><b>goes back to how your dad approached things</b><b>with you and your brothers i guess so yeah yeah i</b><b>didn't think about that that's really neat kind</b><b>of a full circle moment yeah that's totally i never</b><b>together yeah that's really cool so is</b><b>pressley involved in esports or yeah so uh both um</b><b>she's not the best athlete in that like it just</b><b>doesn't the eye hand coordination all those things</b><b>don't come in supernaturally she tries so hard</b><b>like she's she's better runner straight swimmer</b><b>got her in golf just some running uh we're</b><b>working on some volleyball but she does love to sing</b><b>and uh she was she was in the school play and</b><b>she keeps is in the choir now and she's working on</b><b>that so she really loves that's a little bit of a</b><b>theater bug to her yeah which is really cool yeah</b><b>yeah maybe you'll be running lines with her in a</b><b>couple yeah totally like let me tell you what we</b><b>drive every time we're in the car she's like</b><b>can we put on kids bop radio and she just can she</b><b>sings every song to place like everyone just felt</b><b>them out yeah that's awesome that's awesome well</b><b>i think that's amazing honestly um i did want to</b><b>ask you for the younger generation for the gen z's</b><b>that are just getting out of college or in their</b><b>mid-20s and are just beginning this journey and</b><b>trying to figure things out um what's a piece of</b><b>advice you'd give them i mean i one i i think that</b><b>um you know i i think that there's you have</b><b>to realize that real life is not about instant</b><b>gratification and they live in a world where</b><b>you know social media is is instant dopamine drips</b><b>right but the really important things take</b><b>forever they take a long time but they they matter more</b><b>and and those are relationships and real relationships and like i mean i am</b><b>the most blessed person on relationships like my</b><b>circle of friends is is incredible and and when i</b><b>put them together like it's like our wedding was</b><b>magic it was two and a three days of just straight</b><b>love like everybody and so i i don't think they</b><b>have as deep relationships as they could and i</b><b>wish they would invest more in deep good</b><b>relationships because that's that's real and</b><b>you know and i think they have to understand</b><b>like especially in my in my sales world i see these</b><b>things really the gamification of the whole</b><b>thing to you know like these companies are smart</b><b>and they're hiring these younger people and</b><b>they're just like running them like this and</b><b>people have no idea they don't take time to</b><b>understand what someone else's life is like was</b><b>really like right like job to do transaction move</b><b>on like they don't necessarily know what the other</b><b>person on the other side of that transaction has</b><b>to deal with and professionally i think the people</b><b>that will invest in that and understanding that</b><b>are going to be more successful than their peers</b><b>because that's what will last and not only</b><b>that it'll make them better professionally because</b><b>they'll be more they'll like it's way easier to</b><b>work with a person if you understand what they're</b><b>doing and you can you know they're not going to</b><b>volunteer it yes you have to you have to really</b><b>dig in authenticity it sounds like being truly</b><b>authentic and but but like really like you have</b><b>to yes but i mean i think that some people think</b><b>they're authentic because like you ask them about</b><b>themselves and they're very open but to me</b><b>it's like you have to actually think about like</b><b>really about the other what what is the other</b><b>person going through you really have to stop</b><b>thinking about yourself and be like what does this</b><b>mean to someone else and uh and i think they have</b><b>to trust that that works you know i don't think</b><b>they trust that that works because it's not instant</b><b>but you know if you really care about what someone else is going through</b><b>eventually like it does come back in space and i</b><b>my life journey has been a lot of of that reward</b><b>you know the doing the right thing ultimately</b><b>coming back eventually um over time and and you</b><b>know pinch me because i'm very blessed but but i</b><b>also did the right thing and and worked you know</b><b>worked my tail off and went through some</b><b>lumps together when do you think because i totally</b><b>agree with you i and i i feel like i do that more</b><b>now than i've ever done that before where i do try</b><b>to put myself in someone else's mindset to think</b><b>about it what did they do so from the time they</b><b>woke up time did they go you know that almost get</b><b>to that level um you need some level of emotional</b><b>intelligence to get there right yeah so is that's</b><b>got to be a newer concept for you don't you think</b><b>as opposed to when you first started obviously</b><b>i i wish you know i wish someone taught me that</b><b>yeah a long time ago do you do you think</b><b>it's teachable or it's just self-learned through</b><b>experience so i think it's teachable but whether</b><b>or not you're ready i think it about i think it</b><b>has to do with whether or not you're ready to</b><b>receive it yeah so i think it's teachable because</b><b>by the way it was taught to me but i happened to</b><b>be in a position in which if i didn't start learning</b><b>about it i was in real trouble yeah um and so</b><b>i was ready to receive it and you know the the</b><b>person i work with on that she always she's like</b><b>damn i love working with you because like i can</b><b>give you a concept and you just bite it like i</b><b>got this and it's really funny right you know</b><b>you get a little older and so many of us want to</b><b>talk about like well my childhood was really hard</b><b>and that's why the truth of the matter is is you</b><b>know at some point you go all right my childhood</b><b>was hard it that triggers this part in me but</b><b>i don't have to do that that's a choice yes you</b><b>know we all want to blame something we're really</b><b>quick to blame why i am the way i am but we never</b><b>remember that acting away or it's a choice every</b><b>day we are filled with choices you know and so i</b><b>think that is what we try to coach people on</b><b>is like you're still making a choice um and i've</b><b>i've coached like each one of my team you know i</b><b>try to spend as much time as i can with individuals</b><b>that's hard to get to everyone right um it</b><b>interesting one of our clients the cio posted</b><b>something the other day about uh being on a you</b><b>know uh a pilot being really upset with all of</b><b>like yelling screaming at the people on the</b><b>carrier be like my my plane wasn't ready the way</b><b>i wanted to and the admiral or the captain of the</b><b>ship made him work with each of those individuals</b><b>and when you see what they have to go through</b><b>in the trenches it makes you a better leader</b><b>you can really understand what they're going</b><b>through and and i make i can can do better at</b><b>that in spades even though i still try to do a</b><b>lot of it like to really understand what they're</b><b>going through um i don't think i don't think a</b><b>lot of people do that yeah and i think that's big um</b><b>but also uh you know a friend of mine who's very successful he has this saying</b><b>because people are like oh man i wish i</b><b>had what you have they take it take all of it</b><b>take my whole journey take the really like you</b><b>know take the really hard stuff you can't have</b><b>all the good stuff you got to take all of it i</b><b>think that's a really interesting perspective</b><b>yeah yes so many people they just want the good</b><b>and they don't understand what it takes to get here</b><b>that ties back to when you were talking about the</b><b>younger generation and that dopamine hit and that</b><b>instant gratification yeah and understanding</b><b>that there's a journey that got to that reward</b><b>there's there there's like they say you just see</b><b>the tip of the iceberg right it's that old cliche</b><b>down there's so much you're not seeing but it</b><b>sounds to me like just to sum up what you're</b><b>talking about a lot of it's empathy putting</b><b>yourself in your in your client's shoes yeah</b><b>and integrity integrity and empathy the</b><b>combination of those two things making the right decisions</b><b>doing the right thing but then applying empathy</b><b>you know those those two together yeah i think</b><b>that's a loss a lost skill right now customer</b><b>empathy yeah yeah oh god i think it's it's it's</b><b>unfortunate i've run into people</b><b>professionally that have zero zero i was like i was in a</b><b>conversation the other day where some</b><b>manufacturer's representative came over to my rep and they're</b><b>like hey can we get you know you think the</b><b>customer could sign this contract this month</b><b>and my reps like now i don't think so but you know the decision maker's traveling</b><b>oh well can't someone else sign it yeah no</b><b>decision maker's traveling well do you think we can</b><b>contact them like no they're on vacation in</b><b>europe we'll be like well listen i i told my boss i'd</b><b>bring it in this month so like can't we maybe</b><b>you can we just get someone else to do it like can</b><b>you push and you call can you call his boss right</b><b>dude like are you what the hell's going on right</b><b>i and i it took everything i had not to be</b><b>like you need to get the hell out of here pal like</b><b>we're not working with you ever again i was so</b><b>upset it made me so mad because i'm like dude like</b><b>do you not understand like you know like you want</b><b>to just break all the rules no empathy man that's</b><b>just stupid well yeah it was in part stupid</b><b>it's young stupid and there's some bad coaching</b><b>unfortunate there's there are companies that</b><b>reward that right brian maybe they're just not</b><b>they're just not you know we're just not one of</b><b>those do you think though that's that's inherent</b><b>to the compensation plan of most companies in</b><b>the industry now is it just gone i don't think</b><b>it's come i think it's the measurement as</b><b>well yeah i think it's hard to say it's just the</b><b>compensation i think it has a lot to do with the</b><b>measurement like okay so think about it you're an</b><b>up and coming technology company you've been given</b><b>a ton of money by private equity well they want to</b><b>return for that money and what they want you to</b><b>do is deploy that money to grow yeah it's the only</b><b>way the only reason they're giving you the</b><b>money is they want to see you grow so then they hire</b><b>growth oriented folks and if you hire the wrong</b><b>ones like you can hire some great there are great</b><b>leaders out there who know how to be like hey</b><b>this is high value let's position it as high value</b><b>we can go in here's where you position it</b><b>there are other people who you know got the job and</b><b>they're a little over their skis yeah you know</b><b>i was over my skis younger i'm a little more on</b><b>top of them now but um that they're over</b><b>their skis and and so they're just like whiplash</b><b>like by any means necessary and that does that</b><b>will exist by the way i don't think that's new i</b><b>think there's always been companies that yeah</b><b>yeah exist only by whiplash yeah and they look for</b><b>people that you know will work within that</b><b>model right um but you know you imagine that</b><b>i left a little bit because i didn't like</b><b>that model where all that mattered was this one</b><b>that's just never going to be like i was never</b><b>okay with that you know yeah and that ties back</b><b>to your intent and um you play the long game</b><b>with your clients that's what i was going to say</b><b>you're the reason you've been doing this for so</b><b>well for so long and growing and doing well is</b><b>you're playing the long game it's much different</b><b>than next month or this month 100 yeah yeah but</b><b>it's more rewarding it's an investment it</b><b>is it is we tell our reps when they join us</b><b>we go um</b><b>own your own business so you own a business we want you to invest in that business</b><b>this is how that investment pays off and i think my most successful people have um</b><b>grabbed onto that and they really they that is</b><b>who they are culturally they're long-term people and</b><b>excuse me the more we can find long-term people</b><b>that think like that they're like you know that</b><b>want to grow and build like they're going to be</b><b>successful that makes sense that's such a great</b><b>approach you know it's interesting you got it what</b><b>i've realized is is you interview all these people</b><b>and you're looking for you know they show you</b><b>success like look at my wt look at my w2 look at</b><b>this but what you have to realize is like the way</b><b>in which they are successful has to align with the</b><b>way you want to be successful that's really hard</b><b>actually yeah yeah and we've we've you know we've</b><b>failed plenty of times well especially in the</b><b>sales fairs especially in tech right because</b><b>they're smart people but they've got to fit in</b><b>and it's the big trick is to building the right</b><b>teams so they become high performing teams but</b><b>they're also content or happy or or get along</b><b>and they're and there's some sense of reward</b><b>because it's easy to find smart people but to</b><b>have smart people meld together yeah it's tough</b><b>yeah it's the real trick it's like the gold mine</b><b>when you when you it's almost like you're uh um</b><b>the maestro what's that for a symphony the conductor</b><b>the conductor and when you when your symphony</b><b>symphony all comes together it's like a gold mine</b><b>for you in every way not just the payback for the</b><b>company yeah i think it's a good gold mine for the</b><b>employees honestly like they're when they're</b><b>you know and and when i let it get off and i say i</b><b>because like when it gets off the tracks it's</b><b>my responsibility right um you know you could see</b><b>that you're like oh we're not nearly as aligned</b><b>it's not the right word but like it's not as smooth</b><b>it's interesting that you it feels like you</b><b>i could see where you could get into a funk</b><b>oh yeah and then so how do you deal with that</b><b>and how do you deal with it now say compared to 10</b><b>years ago uh the way i dealt with it today since</b><b>it's top of mind is i tried to share a lot today</b><b>about a little bit of what it takes in the</b><b>form of courage for each person to do their job</b><b>that you know the sales rep has to have courage to risk the relationship they have</b><b>okay which is very fragile always right it's</b><b>like think about how gold that relationship is</b><b>and then and then that person's going to</b><b>trust my rep when my rep says we can do this yeah</b><b>right because i i really coach more on services</b><b>than anything else like as long as we think services</b><b>the rest of the all the product stuff happens</b><b>you know what i mean because that's what i mean</b><b>because that's where the value is product is</b><b>easy but it it is and there are plenty of companies</b><b>that just do product and there are some</b><b>people that only value product yeah 100 right yeah</b><b>purchasing people often only value they</b><b>think of it as a skew but yeah you know so anyway</b><b>coaching them uh it was like look the sales rep</b><b>has the courage that the rest of us are going to</b><b>do the job they promised them that we would do</b><b>the solution architects have to have courage that</b><b>their estimate is accurate that they've heard</b><b>the customer they understand the needs and they</b><b>understand what this what this job is going to</b><b>look like and they get it from both sides both</b><b>the customer and internally because if i say</b><b>it's 100 hours and it ends up 200 everybody's mad</b><b>so they have to have a lot of courage to take</b><b>that risk and then i go in the delivery team has to</b><b>have courage right because you know we're</b><b>going into the firefight and sometimes implementing</b><b>stuff that is relatively new to market you</b><b>know it's like not all the playbook's been written</b><b>already you know that's a real thing like</b><b>technology hits the street someone's got to</b><b>install it the first time and we have this lab</b><b>and they do like they can practice as much as you</b><b>want but you still have to show up on game time</b><b>and i talked a little bit about my acting and all</b><b>that but i said you know i talked about that</b><b>courage you know this fear right here like that</b><b>that thing in your gut that's a great thing</b><b>butterflies represent that you care that's what</b><b>butterflies really you have butterflies because</b><b>you want to do great so you're nervous and and</b><b>we talked a little bit about like you know</b><b>we really want to do great everybody's and so</b><b>what i was trying to talk about today and i don't know if i landed it was just that</b><b>you know really high performing teams are</b><b>accountable to each other and the reason they're</b><b>accountable to each other is that you trust that</b><b>that person's going to be able to do their job and</b><b>that they're aligned that you're trying to do</b><b>yours well and they're trying to do yours well</b><b>and we're all aligned and what we're trying to</b><b>do is create a really awesome customer experience</b><b>and if we're all aligned on that we have that</b><b>trust then the courage becomes easier because</b><b>once you have that trust that we're all swimming</b><b>in and looking out for the same thing the courage</b><b>is easy and then everyone else can do that and</b><b>everyone can do their job with greater courage</b><b>that's where growth comes from and that was kind</b><b>of the message today that's a great message you</b><b>know it's a great mess you're the captain of a</b><b>team again no it's i it's where i belong you know</b><b>it's really it is you know it it i am rewarded</b><b>every day like i that's where i do love to be the</b><b>captain of the team yeah i have no i have no</b><b>problem i was uh i played goalkeeper you know</b><b>like i my mom hated this really funny because</b><b>my mom said to me all the time it's like i really</b><b>worry i don't want you to be the goalkeeper the</b><b>pitcher or the quarterback remember talking about</b><b>this and i'm like why she's like because if you</b><b>fail like if you guys lose it's all your fault</b><b>i was like i can handle that i was like i i guess</b><b>kind of felt like yeah but i also can be the hero</b><b>yeah you know yeah and it's good i like being</b><b>the hero yeah you know it's worth the risk to you</b><b>it is to be the hero and but it sucks when you</b><b>see you know as an like as a ceo and entrepreneur</b><b>like there's definitely failures like you just</b><b>you don't get them all right you know what i mean</b><b>yeah but one of your greatest talents and</b><b>you've you've alluded to this is your really</b><b>your skill at relationship building and it's</b><b>i just listened to you apply it again what by</b><b>talking to your team you you create a</b><b>relationship not just with your clients but with your team</b><b>with each one of them you're doing that and</b><b>again playing the long game putting the investment in</b><b>to your people is i think one probably one of</b><b>the main reasons you're so successful and it's that</b><b>relationship talent you have to connect with</b><b>people it's really it's it's it's been fascinating to</b><b>listen to your story and see it present itself</b><b>in almost every aspect of your life so so here's a</b><b>lesson i didn't learn until the downside of</b><b>relationship building was that i cared so much</b><b>about the people because like you know we've</b><b>talked a little bit about like these lifelong</b><b>relationships that i have and so at work i</b><b>wasn't as clear because i was worried about hurting</b><b>feelings downside because i i work with certain</b><b>people i've worked with some people for over 15</b><b>years you know in your sometimes you can't</b><b>deliver oh not that you can't but like i screwed up</b><b>delivering bad news and or just call it</b><b>constructive criticism and one guy taught me something</b><b>you know but he said i'd rather you just tell me i'm doing a bad job</b><b>and unfortunately it was the tail end of our</b><b>relationship and i love this guy who's he's</b><b>superb uh he was superb um but he needed change</b><b>right but i failed him because i wasn't direct</b><b>enough about where he was messing up earlier in</b><b>our relationship like i should have been direct</b><b>like that's not acceptable you're better than</b><b>that this isn't working instead i was like hey do you</b><b>think we could maybe try to i don't know how you</b><b>feeling all this and i let our relationship get in</b><b>the way of clearly communicating and what i</b><b>learned was to show respect to the relationship was to</b><b>communicate clearly with him and that again oops</b><b>you know like all right write that one down in the</b><b>journal that's great advice though and</b><b>have boundaries yeah like you know many people</b><b>especially professionally would prefer you know</b><b>non-emotional very important but clear like this</b><b>isn't working right some people won't respond well</b><b>to it unfortunately because it still hurts to hear</b><b>that you're not doing something right such a tough</b><b>tough dynamic man when you're managing people and</b><b>and uh over time personal relationships</b><b>evolve and you do care you do you do care and</b><b>that's a tough one yeah that's a tough one</b><b>that's fine you're like you're like hey i know that</b><b>you're working 12-hour days killing</b><b>yourself for us yeah but you're doing it wrong yeah</b><b>and because you're doing it wrong it's resulting</b><b>in 12-hour days yeah and i the thing that broke</b><b>my heart about that whole thing is like i feel</b><b>like it came off i think i i think he feels like</b><b>i don't didn't appreciate all the blood sweat and</b><b>tears and like like if i could tell i mean i have</b><b>told like the appreciation for the blood sweat and tears unbelievable what he gave</b><b>but that hit its limit so we had to reinvent and</b><b>get better at the way we do things because i didn't</b><b>want them working 12 hours like i really don't</b><b>want i want you home in front of your kids and</b><b>i want you at the ball game and i give all my</b><b>everyone of my you know on my team knows like</b><b>make that window for your family because those</b><b>are finite moments like i i want to argue i think</b><b>that's our culture it in some respects other</b><b>cultures are like i don't care about all that</b><b>like just go drive when no mine is like make sure</b><b>you have that time but get your job done yeah at</b><b>different hours but make sure you put that</b><b>priority in your life and it was killing me to watch how</b><b>hard that guy was working and then you could see</b><b>it impact his relationships with others because</b><b>you know when you're pushed to the limit and</b><b>someone is like just created more work for you</b><b>you snap sooner or later it's a work it's a work</b><b>and i knew it i knew it i knew and i just didn't</b><b>communicate clearly that we need to fix this</b><b>earlier in this sounds like he was burning out</b><b>a little bit yeah and by the way like there was a</b><b>point where i was burning out and i wasn't there</b><b>for him either to give him the coaching and by</b><b>the way he said i'll pick up the baton and he</b><b>deserves a lot of credit for that you know</b><b>yeah um it's hard sometimes to tell people to work</b><b>smarter and not harder yeah that's a tough one</b><b>well because how do you communicate that without</b><b>it coming across the wrong way that's just</b><b>that's tough because everybody's different yeah yeah i</b><b>don't know you will want to write a book on it</b><b>because it's hard yeah it's really hard i think</b><b>also we have to show what do you mean i i think</b><b>they i think what i learned was i wish i would have</b><b>said okay either i'm gonna do it or you're</b><b>gonna do it but we're gonna go find outside help of</b><b>someone who has done it because he i knew it was</b><b>wrong i didn't necessarily know how to do it right</b><b>i knew what was right but i didn't know how to</b><b>say like this is how we're gonna fix this is how</b><b>we're gonna fix this how we're gonna fix it right</b><b>and so what's funny is after it broke down i had</b><b>to go out for external help to come fix what was</b><b>broken and i'm like shit man why didn't i just go</b><b>find that external help first and coach him and</b><b>say let me go find that and and i wish i would have</b><b>pushed harder and been clearer because sometimes</b><b>too you bring in outside help and they're like oh</b><b>you're judging me or you know that's the landmine</b><b>right right massively am i and so i also realized</b><b>that i i have to be massively clear about the</b><b>why but you know it's funny right like i'm a solver</b><b>so i'm solving yeah and then i've solved and</b><b>i'm like look i found this guy to fix this problem</b><b>and they're like what problem yeah and so it's one of the hardest things brian is</b><b>how long that journey has to be you want it to</b><b>be a one-hour conversation like this this this you</b><b>got it cool we're ready to go but it has to be</b><b>like hey meeting one this is this is what we're</b><b>seeing and this is the result hey meeting two i</b><b>think we need to get better here here here hey</b><b>meeting three would it be valuable if we could find</b><b>an outsider to help us hey meeting four okay let's</b><b>interview a few of these guys okay meeting five</b><b>you know like it's a journey to do it right that</b><b>level of patience is hard it almost in our in</b><b>our frenetic pace solved right now world yeah it's</b><b>super hard to slow down yeah but that is where</b><b>the real magic i think that's what the better</b><b>leaders have figured out well i think it also</b><b>almost sounds like if someone's not positioned</b><b>for success that's almost where that may be</b><b>started i don't know the background on this one</b><b>but if they're not positioned and set up for</b><b>success then it just it's hard and you almost</b><b>have to cut cut it out stop it sooner and</b><b>reposition that by the way like you know there is</b><b>success on this part of the journey and then</b><b>it and then we hit something and we have to read</b><b>invent what success looks like well no and that's</b><b>really hard you're like wait a minute you told me</b><b>to be a welder i'm the best welder in the</b><b>world now you're telling me welding isn't important</b><b>yeah yeah i think that's that's tough right</b><b>like you just told me to do this for the last five</b><b>eight years yeah and you thanked me along the</b><b>way yeah and you paid me well and you celebrated it</b><b>now you're telling me i'm doing it wrong yeah</b><b>i'm like that's not what i mean i don't mean wrong</b><b>but it does come off as wrong right you know</b><b>it's a fascinating thing because i think you would</b><b>agree with this one of the things i tell my folks</b><b>i'm a people manager too and i'm constantly saying</b><b>we have to reinvent ourselves you have to</b><b>reinvent yourself maybe you have done this to your point</b><b>you've been welding for the last five years it's</b><b>time to become a plumber you can still weld but</b><b>you need to now become a plumber and now you need</b><b>to become an electrician because the market shifted</b><b>the especially with ai right technology's</b><b>moving fast you've got to be able to pivot and and</b><b>continue to reinvent yourself if you embrace it</b><b>it's fun so carly dweck you know carly dweck is</b><b>carly dweck i don't think that's her name dweck</b><b>is her lesson a growth mindset she writes this book</b><b>growth mindset you talked about it earlier growth</b><b>mindset yeah massively powerful massively powerful</b><b>thing that we all need to think more about because</b><b>the idea of a sort of a static mindset right like</b><b>this is who i am versus i'm always learning</b><b>i'm always on a journey that helped me a lot like</b><b>listening to this there was a master i subscribed</b><b>to masterclass there was a masterclass i was like</b><b>oh look steve young this is how simple my brain</b><b>is football player i like go right still in the</b><b>androthal he's a smart dude smart dude right yeah</b><b>and he tells the story about how he's at byu and he</b><b>he's he's like oh wait a minute i'm like one of</b><b>the best quarterbacks in the country and i get to</b><b>byu and i'm number five on the depth star like</b><b>what the hell and and he could have stayed there</b><b>and said you know this is who i am blah blah</b><b>blah but he he goes to see steve not mcmahon</b><b>yeah mcmahon and he and he sees something about</b><b>the way he throws right and he looks at it and</b><b>he's like oh man so he goes for the next year</b><b>all i did was change and work on the way i threw to</b><b>create more zip and once i created that i went</b><b>from five to one and it was just all about like</b><b>life being a massive journey always learning grow</b><b>you know always this growth mindset that to me i</b><b>think is how do we instill that in people as early</b><b>as possible yeah right very true you're ready for</b><b>failure yeah right and not scared of it no not</b><b>scared it's part of the journey it is it's all</b><b>failure is a gift it's part of the learning it's</b><b>how you gauge success yeah you know and also it's</b><b>a motivator and you learn like you just said i</b><b>think so many of us uh gen xers that are in our</b><b>midlife um are really starting to lean into growth</b><b>mindset because as we're going to this next stage</b><b>we're not going quietly we want to continue to</b><b>tackle life and get uncomfortable and grow and</b><b>change and i so wish somebody would have talked</b><b>to me about growth mindset when i was 25 yeah and i</b><b>think it's it'd be such a gift to pass on to the</b><b>younger generation and help them understand you</b><b>can get so much more out of life with that mindset</b><b>it's not even optional at this point though there</b><b>are none of those traditional jobs and roles</b><b>they're growing up in a growth mindset i think</b><b>because technology moves fast but in order for</b><b>kids today to to survive not even thrive but just</b><b>survive you have to continue to adapt i feel</b><b>like the world's changed enough since when we were</b><b>younger there's no there's no i'm gonna go get a</b><b>job at the ford plant or i'm gonna become an IBM</b><b>rep for 30 years and retire like we grew up i</b><b>remember growing up like oh go get a job at IBM</b><b>i i don't think that exists anymore maybe it</b><b>does maybe it doesn't i don't know but there's still</b><b>people that are in regular jobs like i think</b><b>they're regular jobs they don't last is they're</b><b>not gonna last as well yeah but i mean that's</b><b>what i mean yeah but just what i'm saying is</b><b>you're gonna grow at some point because it's gonna</b><b>get disrupted yeah but i mean there's people that</b><b>get a job and it can be even a job is like um uh</b><b>a server right and they can get kind of stuck into</b><b>this is who i am this is what i'm doing but if</b><b>you have that growth mindset right earlier then you</b><b>really could expand and see where could i go in</b><b>my life you know so it isn't just the technical</b><b>world you know there's a whole other world out</b><b>there too of it's and it's personally too in your</b><b>personal life like that's how um marriages can</b><b>get maybe that's what i'm trying to describe is you</b><b>need to have that growth mindset in your</b><b>marriage and your relationship with your children like</b><b>constantly be challenging yourself and how you</b><b>think of things and expanding and expanding you're</b><b>touching on where i'm where i'm probably</b><b>implying is in order to be have any contentness or</b><b>satisfaction you have to continue to evolve and</b><b>you have to continue or else you will get stuck</b><b>in a rut yes so it's not optional isn't it</b><b>great to have that wisdom that we have now yes yeah</b><b>because i never think you're like you're both</b><b>right you know brian all right brian saying like</b><b>like survival might depend on it yeah in some</b><b>respects you're saying that right yeah right</b><b>financial well-being depends on you yeah but you</b><b>know that now we knew it we knew it the three of</b><b>us knew it whether we knew it or not we none of</b><b>us ever settled not in every aspect of our lives</b><b>i wouldn't say you know i and so it's it's</b><b>something i think that needs to be at front</b><b>of mind though and and i'm just saying if gen z</b><b>can get that in their heads sooner than we did</b><b>they're going to be way ahead of us not everyone</b><b>likes learning because the only version of learning</b><b>they know is traditional learning yeah and that</b><b>didn't work for them and so then what happens is</b><b>they write off learning because they only you</b><b>know like you know like i don't like zucchini</b><b>but the truth is my wife can bake it a certain</b><b>way or fry it and i'm like oh that's pretty good</b><b>i could eat that but if i've only had it broiled</b><b>you know and it was every time i'm like i'm not</b><b>so i think that's where we're what we are</b><b>struggling with a little bit as a culture and</b><b>we went we're going with so full circle is college</b><b>important yeah is that we're very standard in the</b><b>way we teach still my daughter right now is</b><b>talking about this program in madrid that she</b><b>signed up for and she was choosing which of</b><b>these nba programs she wanted and she chose this one</b><b>i pushed her early to try to adopt some chat gpt</b><b>in her life you know and um and she i'm like look</b><b>at this and what if we did this on a prompt and</b><b>it really fortunately for me like she bit hard and</b><b>she used it in a recruiting world and like all</b><b>her other peers were like how did you get all</b><b>that information for it fast and she's like</b><b>don't know you know not like you're supposed to share</b><b>sweetheart you know she's like yeah i know but</b><b>they're not being that nice so i was like cool</b><b>it's like i can handle that so anyway we were</b><b>joking about it but she she chose this program</b><b>that is being that was created this this college</b><b>if you will and madrid that was created by like</b><b>the former head of google in latin america and</b><b>the in in spain excuse me and the former head of</b><b>like sales force okay and they created this</b><b>technical digital first sort of curriculum</b><b>and her roommate is at the traditional nba</b><b>program book lecture book lecture read test</b><b>this is practice okay here's the scenario okay</b><b>this is the company we're running okay how are</b><b>we going to do this and she is just like</b><b>thriving she wasn't great at traditional learning yeah</b><b>it just wasn't and she's bright really</b><b>bright girl but not great at traditional learning</b><b>and and my my oldest not great at traditional</b><b>learning at all but really kind of like has this</b><b>natural leadership pied piper thing where she</b><b>makes good street decisions all the time she's</b><b>cool as the other side of the pillow everyone</b><b>wants to be around her and so i'm like i'm trying to</b><b>she's my new challenge i'm like let's talk</b><b>about how chat gpt works let's talk about how</b><b>ai in general works and how it can augment all</b><b>this education that you needed that you didn't</b><b>get but you're not going to remember because</b><b>like you traditional learning didn't work for you</b><b>but it's at your fingertips right and and</b><b>hey by the way if you don't want to read it all</b><b>it'll talk to you it'll it'll feed it to you</b><b>however you want to be fed and i'm really trying</b><b>to get both of them to have a positive</b><b>relationship with ai because if they don't i do believe that</b><b>someone else will learn to use it to accelerate</b><b>themselves faster but you do have to have a want</b><b>to learn and i want to get better and i want</b><b>to improve and and that is that growth mindset</b><b>yeah and i and i do think and i don't think we</b><b>teach it no no i don't think we teach it i don't</b><b>even i don't think we like really talk about</b><b>it until you're later in your professional life</b><b>and and actually i'm going to take that away</b><b>like i'm going to actually just start talking about</b><b>that phrase with my kids yeah even my 10 year</b><b>old you know like every little failure is like</b><b>what did we learn today yes right tell me</b><b>something that like i'm gonna really change the way i told</b><b>you like what went really bad today yeah it's</b><b>the worst part of your day okay cool what did you</b><b>learn from that yeah because that's what it is</b><b>right yeah you know the journey it's like what does</b><b>the journey teach you um that's so true you</b><b>know and now we can augment that journey so fast</b><b>what's interesting that our youngest had some kids over a couple weeks ago</b><b>and i was talking to this kid it was just</b><b>fascinating honestly he's probably 14 15 years</b><b>old and we were just shooting the shit about</b><b>football or something and we had a question</b><b>question came up he got on his phone topped on</b><b>chat gbt i think it was and was like blah blah</b><b>and he's like oh yeah that's the answer and it happened like four times it's like</b><b>this kid's he's kind of dialed in they use it</b><b>though especially that age they use it well the</b><b>problem is the formal education kind of where</b><b>you're going in some ways they're not embracing</b><b>it they're still saying you need to read the</b><b>book and you need to test and we did it as a parent</b><b>and i'm technically interested and savvy our</b><b>youngest had to write a paper he's like let</b><b>me just do it in chat gbt and i was we were</b><b>like no no you can't the teachers don't want you to</b><b>yeah but it was so he throughout the topic and</b><b>he's over there struggling to write it and i'm</b><b>like write me hop on chat gbt write me a you</b><b>know a standard uh what is it four paragraph</b><b>paper on the following topic with these two main</b><b>points 30 seconds 10 to five seconds later right</b><b>it's done he's over there brighten away but i do</b><b>think you're spot on that they don't need to learn</b><b>it all traditionally at all because it's right</b><b>there it's easily askable yeah you don't write</b><b>it's google on steroids it's like when we were</b><b>going to school and they said you're not going</b><b>to have a calculator in your pocket and we all</b><b>have a calculator in our you know i mean or you</b><b>know telling us there's a balance here no there</b><b>is a balance there's a balance for sure but i think</b><b>that there has to be an evolution it's like why</b><b>did we do square dancing why do we play the recorder</b><b>it's like there's so many things that we did</b><b>that we don't even apply now and i think it'd be</b><b>it'd be good if they could look ahead and start</b><b>implementing some of this stuff instead of wasting</b><b>time agreed brian said something and if you remove</b><b>one word it's a totally different answer so you said</b><b>they don't need to learn traditionally or</b><b>they they uh you didn't say they don't need their</b><b>like they're not being taught to learn they don't</b><b>need to learn traditionally and i and i think the</b><b>problem is is but they need to learn yes absolutely</b><b>the problem with chat gpt is it gives you an answer</b><b>right yeah yeah you didn't do any thinking yes yeah</b><b>right yeah you prompted you maybe that's some of it</b><b>but you're gonna believe what it says yes</b><b>because you haven't been taught how to learn</b><b>we did the recorder a little bit to learn how</b><b>what how music works yes right so i don't need it</b><b>but i learned how to learn in that process so</b><b>i'm i mean it's all learning it's the learning oh i</b><b>think i think that's the scariest part yeah gpt</b><b>in education for me it is that it's too easy for</b><b>the student to get the answer they don't have to</b><b>think and if like if critical thinking goes away</b><b>yeah that's scary because we book you like like</b><b>the amount of even if hallucinations get better</b><b>and the answers get closer and blah blah blah</b><b>like you still have to think critically about what</b><b>you're solving for or you'll be misled and i</b><b>would like it's gonna give you the answer it's being</b><b>told to give you yeah right and i and i do</b><b>think that like you know whether it's learning what</b><b>prompt engineering is but i think the brain does</b><b>need to develop a skill for learning learning the</b><b>learning to exercise learning the learning how to</b><b>learn yeah there has to be a way to build these two</b><b>since we're dissecting it i would amend it</b><b>too you do have to learn and you do have to have</b><b>critical skill critical thinking skills highly</b><b>highly important what i mean by not having to</b><b>learn i don't know if you have to learn</b><b>everything little nook and cranny about world history no</b><b>that's a bad example because i think history is</b><b>critical but there's certain things you just don't</b><b>need to know and it because if you it's easy</b><b>to just get it and it's easy to have it at your</b><b>fingertips but but you do have to be able to</b><b>connect dots yeah and you have to have that</b><b>critical thinking you have to be able to learn</b><b>how to take this bit of information and think and</b><b>match it up with this and then make decisions</b><b>yeah right but i don't know if you have to learn</b><b>every little thing that you're taught in school</b><b>just because that's how it's always been you could</b><b>argue school's too long yeah right like they</b><b>squeeze a lot in they do yeah they could replace</b><b>a lot of traditional like to your point like</b><b>it it's a really tough time maybe the curriculum</b><b>changes exactly that's where i'm going like</b><b>hey could you imagine if an eight-hour day</b><b>is replaced with four hours of we've figured out what we think we want you to learn</b><b>and four hours of practical critical thinking</b><b>yeah yeah lab yeah i mean like yeah like let's</b><b>put it this way you never learned science just</b><b>by reading science right yeah at least for me</b><b>my greatest growth always came in practicing</b><b>science yeah in the physics lab yeah it's like</b><b>one of my favorite classes because i get close</b><b>to it i'm looking at shit in water yeah totally</b><b>connects the dots the best right and so</b><b>what a wonderful opportunity to spend less time</b><b>with eyes on a book and more time in</b><b>practice i would really hope our education system</b><b>gets in front of that a little bit right or the</b><b>curriculum changes a little bit where you're like</b><b>okay cool it's let's embrace that we can get this</b><b>answer quickly out of ai and this is how we would</b><b>get it let's teach you how to get it yeah however</b><b>now let's go into a lab and make this make it give</b><b>you a practical scenario in which you you go</b><b>ebb and flow into ai for yeah for the solution</b><b>whatever that may be right because the problem</b><b>is is traditional education is read test yeah</b><b>read test paper well test and paper are easy</b><b>well read memorize read memorize not necessarily</b><b>learn memorize right regurgitate yeah test 100</b><b>right right on paper and so i can regurgitate easier</b><b>now i could do all my homework yeah so</b><b>regurgitation it doesn't prove that i've learned yeah yeah</b><b>that's the interesting thing right like at</b><b>the end of the day the test and the paper</b><b>are proof proof that you did the work and by</b><b>doing the work i hoped you learned right but</b><b>doing the work has become easy yeah here's an</b><b>example so now what are you actually now what are</b><b>you actually trying to how do you judge yeah</b><b>traditionally that's how we judge whether or</b><b>not someone was learning yeah right like we</b><b>have to rethink whether or not someone got it</b><b>yeah how do you know someone got it yeah yeah</b><b>yeah how many times have you faced the challenge</b><b>in your business and you're over there your</b><b>your engineers are doing things and you just</b><b>hop on chat gpt and it's like hey chat bt says</b><b>do this why aren't you doing that you know and</b><b>because it's quick right it's quick and it's at</b><b>your fingertips it's dangerous they're like oh</b><b>come on dude shut up you know leave us alone</b><b>but that's the reality of the new dynamic for now</b><b>for sure for now for sure i'm trying to</b><b>encourage them it's funny do you do you make it a mandate</b><b>do you encourage it do you give it a reward like</b><b>i i try to lead by example like i'm using like hey</b><b>let me tell you what it what it taught me let me</b><b>tell you how to apply it um you know it's funny</b><b>right you just never have enough time for all the</b><b>good ideas you have i think it's a very real thing</b><b>but um i try to encourage like hey is it like</b><b>hey what if we tried to use chat gpt to uh make</b><b>to get us 80 of the way there like hey there's not</b><b>enough time in a day got it i'm really asking a lot</b><b>of people but if we could you know save you have</b><b>30 of your day how much of a reward is that and</b><b>and and so someone posed this to me uh ci was i</b><b>was meeting with and he goes you know we figured out</b><b>already theoretically how to use chat use ai to</b><b>save 30 of your day 40 of your day because you</b><b>put all these processes in and you're good the</b><b>question is what do you do with the 40 percent</b><b>because what we don't know is does my employee</b><b>play video games with the 40 percent or do they</b><b>use the 40 percent to do other things that's</b><b>a challenge for you as a business owner to say</b><b>i just freed up your you now have 60 percent</b><b>of your time or 40 percent of your time back</b><b>what are you gonna do what are you gonna do and</b><b>you've got a figure yeah track it per se and i</b><b>could but i'm not you know like isn't that crazy</b><b>like what are you gonna do with your other 40 percent</b><b>so have you gotten into agentic ai at all uh</b><b>we don't have any agentic ai running internally</b><b>to solve problems it's really funny because it's</b><b>one of those pet projects where i'm like i need to</b><b>go find a guy like brian who could go execute it</b><b>yeah like i don't have those guys right so i don't</b><b>have i don't have a big it department have you</b><b>have you looked into like have you seen microsoft's</b><b>whole concept of the frontier organization no</b><b>no i have not got it check out oh my god it's not</b><b>it's it's talking about using agentic ai to now</b><b>so today the the the the most common thing is i'm</b><b>gonna go to chat gbt i'm gonna write a prompt and</b><b>i'm gonna get an answer correct um the next version</b><b>which they're kind of pushing and it's really</b><b>fascinating is to now start to embed agents into</b><b>your team oh so then now make most of your team</b><b>agents now it's and you know that scares people</b><b>it's right you know it's like well shit i'm</b><b>gonna be out of a job and and the whole selling point</b><b>is no you're gonna get time back to do other</b><b>things now we go back two minutes what do you</b><b>fill your time with so it's really fascinating</b><b>if all your job is is to provide information when</b><b>people ask it then yes that job is going away</b><b>like i can get information without you yeah i mean</b><b>look you know i think just this my fear on that</b><b>side is like there's a lot of lawyers and accountants</b><b>and what have you that that are only five years</b><b>out of the job force with a lot of debt going oh</b><b>shit yeah okay that that part of the</b><b>generation scares me like those are our kids right yeah</b><b>we're like they did all this study and they did</b><b>all this and they they took jobs that might be</b><b>easily replaceable i have seen i haven't seen it</b><b>as articulated as the microsoft front end the way</b><b>you described it but i've seen already in</b><b>action like hey i created this like where i went into</b><b>microsoft i forgot to the studio and they're</b><b>like make me a bot that does this this and this and</b><b>co-pilot studio yeah co-pilot i've seen that in</b><b>action i think that's powerful and then check out</b><b>this part so uh we live in a zero trust world</b><b>right oh yeah brian and i are geeking it out so</b><b>so how do you know who that bot is i'll</b><b>tell you and that bot has access to what all my</b><b>hr data so could i just ask that bot to give me</b><b>hey can you give me uh brian barker salary please</b><b>yeah you know what you know what i mean like</b><b>how do you secure the identity how do you identify</b><b>and secure this new agentic AI world which is a</b><b>real heck of a problem because like it's really</b><b>easy now in this zero trust world to say i know</b><b>brian is and i'm an mfam to death and i'll always</b><b>tell me who he is because that's the way but</b><b>if he's a bot yeah uh oh how do i give that bot</b><b>a personality it's fascinating i work with a</b><b>guy who's super smart and he's always been like i</b><b>don't like to use elevated privileges i trust</b><b>myself but now i'm developing bots and i've got</b><b>god-like powers across our ecosystem i gotta</b><b>figure this out yeah and so he's it's kind of</b><b>touching on what you're saying it's and there is</b><b>that nefarious part of the agents because they do</b><b>learn that's the whole frontier concept they learn</b><b>now they start making decisions yeah imagine like</b><b>hey i i've learned i ran into a roadblock could</b><b>you help me get around this roadblock sure i'll</b><b>help you get around this roadblock but that that</b><b>that that you're like i'll tell you every now and</b><b>again every now and again you do have to go um</b><b>this terminator thing that that yeah no this matrix</b><b>thing that's that's a possibility i'll tell you</b><b>one of the most powerful things that i've come</b><b>across so far is the whole vibe coding right so</b><b>you go into vs code vs code you can choose whether</b><b>you want to use clod chat gbt co-pilot and you say</b><b>write me a script that does this write me a script</b><b>that does that so where i've used this i'm not a</b><b>coder by trade i'm i'm a noodler but you can see</b><b>my raspberry pi's there um now i've got it down</b><b>when we upload a youtube video i in i can go and</b><b>press one button i used to have to go we</b><b>upload the video i create a web page and do all this</b><b>shit right takes me a half an hour to an hour now</b><b>i press the button it's done in 30 seconds i got</b><b>my web page updated my episode page updated</b><b>it's all pushed out and it's it's flawless and i'm</b><b>literally i bet it it takes me longer to log</b><b>in than it does for it to run the whole script</b><b>and update it all well it's amazing he's very</b><b>excited well that he should be but now can you</b><b>imagine this like we just had this wonderful</b><b>conversation yet we could throw uh a large you</b><b>could write a book you could sit there and</b><b>be like i'm gonna write this whole story yeah</b><b>and i'm gonna send that over to google's lm</b><b>and say make this a podcast it's happening and it</b><b>i've watched like i literally most content no not</b><b>most i've literally done it and you're like oh my</b><b>god like i've taken a training thing and i'm</b><b>like you know what like as this example i'd like to</b><b>know more about what office depot is doing in x</b><b>y and z public documents yeah put it into google</b><b>and i'm like hey do this to me for a podcast and</b><b>i'll be driving it back hey did you guys hear about</b><b>what office depot is doing oh man yeah totally</b><b>well tell me more about okay so like it's really</b><b>cool and it just sounds so yeah well authentic</b><b>and you're like oh and by the way i enjoyed learning</b><b>it that way while i was driving yeah versus</b><b>having to read this boring document yeah about</b><b>corporate blah blah blah and i was like uh-oh</b><b>there's a couple uh-oh moments you know the other</b><b>the other thing my older son's looking into</b><b>is developing agents to make say you've got a</b><b>thousand bucks you want to just play in the market</b><b>develop an agent that you say hey go and go based</b><b>on this criteria whether it's earnings per</b><b>share whatever right the multiple go and buy these</b><b>stocks i want you to be semi-aggressive here's</b><b>a thousand bucks go grow it and now and that's</b><b>what's trading is becoming right that's been</b><b>going on for a while hundred percent yeah i mean i get</b><b>no anybody across my desk that are incredible</b><b>doing you know wanting that wanting to do that</b><b>at i think not wanting doing that at yes scale</b><b>scale hundred percent yeah i think with all of</b><b>this though what's also going to happen is real</b><b>is going to become a hot commodity and real organic</b><b>experiences and old school stuff i think people</b><b>are it's going to go so far one way that people</b><b>are going to crave no technology and crave just</b><b>face-to-face human contact because ai is going</b><b>to take over everything that everyone's going</b><b>to lose trust and what am i what i'm listening to</b><b>is this real or is this ai what i'm watching is</b><b>this real or is this ai what i'm being told is</b><b>that a real person or ai and i think that the</b><b>lack of trust is going to leave people to search out</b><b>more of a human interaction agree 100 yeah i</b><b>think ultimately if you just look at generally</b><b>the generation after the generation always wants</b><b>to yeah do different yeah right like yeah oh you</b><b>guys ruin the internet and oh you guys ruin</b><b>it like so i think that the the gen z terrible</b><b>gen z they're they're the ones in their 20s okay</b><b>yeah i think that you know they're they're so in</b><b>social and all that yeah that my 10 year old</b><b>that generation's gonna fight it in a weird way</b><b>because they're yeah like ah the old people do</b><b>it this way so we're gonna do something different</b><b>yeah right and that you always sort of have</b><b>to fight the generation above you you're always</b><b>gonna do something different you do and i think</b><b>that's gonna happen how it happens i have no idea</b><b>i don't know because we've never had technology</b><b>like this before to mess around with but i think</b><b>that it'll become something that um humans want</b><b>to protect i think humans will want to protect</b><b>the human experience yeah and i think that</b><b>technology is going to start to feel more like</b><b>a threat than um an aid at some point in certain</b><b>situations so and before i ask my last question do</b><b>you have any more questions i do it's</b><b>semi-nebulas but what what does leadership mean to you</b><b>you know i i think</b><b>when i think of leadership i think of</b><b>getting others to achieve more than they thought they could achieve</b><b>by bringing them together by not bringing that</b><b>doesn't doesn't necessarily need to be brought</b><b>together getting others to achieve more than</b><b>than what they think their limits are that's</b><b>that's what what the way i define it um you know and</b><b>and i think that it's important that empathy and care find their way into that</b><b>because i do think leadership does the best</b><b>leadership is going to come from a good place</b><b>you know um</b><b>that's how i look yeah i and admittedly it's a</b><b>question i don't like to answer myself because</b><b>it could change dated not day to day but you know</b><b>what i'm saying i do you want to choose your words</b><b>carefully as a true leader that you are so you</b><b>want to choose your words carefully because it's</b><b>it's a tough question it's a big question it</b><b>is it's a it means different things to different</b><b>people and it means different things at</b><b>different times and at different situations so i think</b><b>that's a great answer this format helped me</b><b>with that a little bit in that connecting back to</b><b>coaching directing being in an organization</b><b>whatever it may be i think a lot of that is</b><b>you know a willingness to say i want something</b><b>we all want something there's something out there</b><b>we i'll take the lead and create safety for</b><b>others so so they can get there right and um</b><b>and push because occasionally it's push</b><b>and occasionally it's courage to be in front</b><b>and occasionally it's the courage to be in the</b><b>back and so to your point i i do think it changes</b><b>daily yeah and and it's you know maybe the best</b><b>answer is it's doing what is needed at the time</b><b>it is needed yeah to help others grow maybe that's</b><b>how i would rewrite it that's great that's a great</b><b>that's a great way to sum it up i think</b><b>courage is heavily involved yeah courage is heavily</b><b>involved to be a leader yeah and like you said</b><b>obviously to lead but to have the courage and</b><b>self-awareness and humility to know when not to</b><b>yeah and to let your people go and let let give</b><b>them their opportunity and creating that space</b><b>so it's a great answer i have one last comment</b><b>then you can ask yours um just going back to the whole imposter syndrome concept</b><b>i don't think you need to feel it i i think</b><b>you should be proud of what you've accomplished</b><b>i've known you for i don't know how long 10 12</b><b>years something like that i i'm proud of what</b><b>you've done i'm proud of what i've seen you</b><b>accomplish and i think you can be and should be</b><b>so i don't think you you can probably give</b><b>yourself some grace i guess if you will don't</b><b>don't take your foot off the pedal because i</b><b>think it's what makes you successful but i you know i</b><b>i don't think you need to feel like an imposter i</b><b>appreciate that that makes sense it does it does</b><b>this has been wildly beneficial to me oh good</b><b>yeah because i don't talk like you know sort of</b><b>this yeah about these topics and subjects and</b><b>don't dive into the past as often as you know</b><b>i might but um sometimes it it you know</b><b>every now and again there's just a little bit of</b><b>reminder out there you're entitled to that yeah</b><b>that's because you give it to everyone else you're</b><b>entitled to that space too to honor yourself in</b><b>your journey and to take appreciation and stock</b><b>of it you're entitled to it just as much</b><b>as everyone else in your life that you love</b><b>so my last question is where do you see yourself in five years</b><b>five years is tricky uh because it's blur it's blurry because the you know</b><b>and i think about this a decent amount um</b><b>i don't have a finite date for the business</b><b>i could still be leading the business i could have moved on to something else</b><b>um the business could be part of something</b><b>bigger and i have a role within that bigger</b><b>eventually i think these the reason five years</b><b>is tough is because i look at it a little bit more</b><b>as like as pressley gets closer to graduating</b><b>so as she goes off to college theoretically um</b><b>um i i think that there will be a little bit more freedom</b><b>um i'm either gonna have the right people in place that give me that freedom</b><b>at the business uh or we will have joined</b><b>someone else and and you know i there will</b><b>be leaders running it in some way shape or</b><b>form whether they're whether they're running</b><b>it in its current form or in another form um</b><b>i love to work i love to think i love to give</b><b>advice which is hysterical i see myself in</b><b>consulting in some respect um or coaching high</b><b>school football you know yeah i got a bunch of</b><b>buddies they're like you're an idiot if you don't</b><b>do some high school football coach and uh and</b><b>and i and it's really funny a lot of people like</b><b>you're the boss you have any you know you can make</b><b>the time or you can do this you can do that i'm like</b><b>now i don't really look at it that way like i i</b><b>feel like i'm the leader and i'm gonna show you</b><b>that i'm gonna work just as hard as you guys</b><b>and um and so my my life has a frenetic pace today</b><b>but yeah as pressley gets older i'll</b><b>probably have grandkids in two different countries</b><b>and and you know i'm gonna need some</b><b>flexibility at some point to make sure i keep this family</b><b>together you know and that that matters to me yeah matters to me a lot um my wife's</b><b>grandmother gammer had a license plate it was like</b><b>23 and all and she was just like you talk about the</b><b>matriarch okay she's the wife of a four star</b><b>general wow and she just has a matriarch vibe and</b><b>and and i tell jodi all the time i'm like i</b><b>gotta make you gamer because then then you think like</b><b>the legacy of the unit stays yes and and she</b><b>really like that's a big thing for her you know</b><b>she wants that she wants she wants to be gamer and</b><b>i'm like we can make that happen because then i can</b><b>sleep well at night knowing generations of our</b><b>family will stay together like that's yeah that's</b><b>the desire you're passing that on i'm trying to</b><b>yeah you're passing that i think that's the third</b><b>or fourth time you've talked about coaching</b><b>high school football yeah i know it's kind of funny</b><b>right i think that's something that you gotta be</b><b>near it i gotta do something you're manifesting it</b><b>yeah and and i i think i gotta be young young</b><b>people need as much help as they can get yeah</b><b>for sure and coaching high school football is</b><b>not coach it's not about coaching high school right</b><b>it's about sitting on the side it's about</b><b>developing a young man or you know and you know</b><b>that because you had that experience so it's</b><b>made me who i am so i need to coming full circle</b><b>you should start with like a flag football team</b><b>young little kids i've already coached actually</b><b>i coached uh my niece's uh soccer team here in</b><b>boca was one of the most wonderful experiences</b><b>just watching those girls we won a championship</b><b>was it was it team boca travel wasn't the travel</b><b>it was okay optimist one saber yeah i won the</b><b>mccormack cup or whatever that was yeah whatever</b><b>that's the tom something yeah yeah yeah i can't</b><b>remember the exact name but her team won it once</b><b>and then she had a shirt or something my my</b><b>my cousin's husband got me involved he's like i</b><b>need help yeah and then he ended up like you</b><b>just coach it and like yeah we nina and i was so</b><b>wonderful that's awesome forever with uh with my</b><b>oldest nathan and i'm like i gotta stop so him and</b><b>my uh dylan and nathan both coach they both</b><b>they coach uh a basketball yeah we're great we're</b><b>we've always been doing that but well i think</b><b>that's a great vision and i can't wait to hear</b><b>from brian as the years go on where you are and</b><b>what you're doing and when you become a grandpa</b><b>are you gonna be called grandpa have you decided</b><b>i have not i choose not to have that conversation</b><b>in any way shape or form i turned 50 uh next</b><b>year and that's a big one that's a big one wow</b><b>i still think i'm 35 so we all it's all downhill</b><b>we won't use that word grandpa i am cool dad well</b><b>yeah i mean i i don't think jen i think gen x</b><b>has made being a grandparent the coolest ever so</b><b>because we all are just living our lives really</b><b>are as cool as we are but we just happen to be</b><b>grandparents so that's how it goes but</b><b>greg thank you so much for sharing your story</b><b>and your wisdom and your advice um i know there's</b><b>so many listeners that this is going to resonate</b><b>with and they've learned things from you i mean</b><b>some of the knowledge you've imparted is um just</b><b>invaluable so thank you for all of that and again</b><b>for being so open and trusting us with your story</b><b>we've really enjoyed it you're welcome but thank</b><b>you guys this has been absolutely fantastic i'm</b><b>so glad brian asked me to do it yeah yeah very</b><b>cool it's been great yes hell yeah yeah yeah and</b><b>again i'm just watching your journey and how it</b><b>all has tied together and led you to where you are</b><b>it's a puzzle that just makes perfect sense and</b><b>i know the next five ten years are gonna go that</b><b>way for you even if there's ups and downs it's</b><b>all gonna fit so i'm i'm excited i'm excited to</b><b>and i know you two are gonna stay in touch</b><b>yes sure relationship building here totally this</b><b>relationship is solid well we've had yeah he's</b><b>like i said 75 percent bs about random things</b><b>25 work yeah like i said when you come to town</b><b>and i hear he's going to lunch i'm like good i</b><b>get like three or four hours of myself well i</b><b>will say this like he doesn't go to lunch so the fact</b><b>that he goes to lunch with me makes me feel pretty</b><b>yeah yeah let me tell you something he doesn't go</b><b>to lunch so yeah i don't like no i don't like</b><b>people i have a very very short list yes and you're</b><b>on it you and jd are on it absolutely he says</b><b>no to everything so but again thank you so much</b><b>and for our listeners um we welcome any</b><b>comments or questions and um i do want to just say your</b><b>company one more time sure it's grace and</b><b>technologies grace and technology in florida</b><b>offices all throughout the state so anyone's</b><b>interested in gracie gracin technology as well</b><b>yes yes that's how we've known each other</b><b>for so long very satisfied uh i guess customer</b><b>evolved into friendship and and they kill it</b><b>i hate to put you out there too much because i</b><b>don't want it to you know by the way he's not alone in that statement they're like</b><b>i don't really want to give you a referral</b><b>because i don't want to not have you when i need you and</b><b>that's not how it works trust me you gotta you</b><b>gotta just trust that listen and it isn't how</b><b>it works because i've seen you guys grow i've seen</b><b>you guys scale i've seen you guys just kill it so</b><b>yeah everyone needs they you know it's ebbs</b><b>and flows like there are times of the year or of</b><b>multi-years where you're like i just kind of don't</b><b>need what you have right now because your journey</b><b>doesn't need it at that time you're technical</b><b>your company's technical journey and so that's what's</b><b>cool like someone joked like if we do our jobs</b><b>really really well you don't need us that much</b><b>that's the reality yeah if we're really good</b><b>and we do what we're supposed to do you'll keep us</b><b>around but you don't always need us and that's</b><b>our kind of i do i do think when you were talking</b><b>about the courage to you know go out and sell</b><b>the courage to deliver i would you know i mean</b><b>you guys are a trusted advisor to to myself and</b><b>my teams and it's and it's just huge and i think</b><b>it's a huge thing in the marketplace so you're</b><b>not just bullshitting here you're you know you're</b><b>walking the walk i guess right and it's it's a</b><b>it's a great thing you've built it's it's cool</b><b>it's authentic so that's authentic it is it is</b><b>so again grace and technologies i'll say one more</b><b>time but that's it and um as always listeners</b><b>if you have any comments or questions for brian</b><b>and i please feel free to leave them and we will see you next time bye</b>