<b>[Music]</b><b>Welcome to GenX Adulting. It's been a</b><b>week here in America. We've had quite a</b><b>week and I'm sure it's touched some</b><b>people around the world. So we are going</b><b>to do an episode on the assassination of</b><b>Charlie Kirk. When we first started</b><b>this podcast, our motivation, in addition</b><b>to having guests on to share their life</b><b>stories, that would resonate with people</b><b>around the world and help people feel</b><b>seen and heard and maybe not so crazy</b><b>sometimes. But it was also to tell our</b><b>story, our stories and our individual</b><b>stories and then our story together as a</b><b>married couple for almost 32 years, 31</b><b>years. I don't know, I've lost track now.</b><b>Raising children and sharing our opinions</b><b>and wisdom and thoughts through</b><b>the from what we've learned through the</b><b>years. But also in the hopes that our</b><b>grandchildren, great-grandchildren,</b><b>great-great-grandchildren and future</b><b>generations could look back and see what</b><b>their great-great-grandparents</b><b>thought about different things that were</b><b>going on in the world in addition to</b><b>listening to our story. And this week we</b><b>experienced a historical moment in</b><b>history, no question. Something that I'm</b><b>sure future generations will be</b><b>interested in and read about and maybe</b><b>even learn about. So I think it's worth</b><b>covering and I think you agreed as well,</b><b>Brian, that it was worth covering.</b><b>Yeah, I think it's worth covering. It's</b><b>covering it's, you</b><b>know, a lot of folks are</b><b>calling it a watershed moment. Yeah.</b><b>Comparing it to Kennedy or comparing it</b><b>to MLK or Malcolm X or any number of</b><b>other political assassinations or, you</b><b>know, well-known figureheads who've been</b><b>assassinated or killed. Right. So again,</b><b>yeah, the historical significance I don't</b><b>think can even be realized right</b><b>now. I don't think we even know. So I</b><b>think it's important that we do an</b><b>episode on it for that reason alone as</b><b>well as other reasons for sure. So for</b><b>those who don't know who Charlie Kirk</b><b>was, Charlie Kirk. So do you think that's</b><b>even possible at this point? Well, I</b><b>don't know. Everyone knows Charlie Kirk.</b><b>Yeah. Charlie Kirk. You know, the</b><b>interesting thing about</b><b>Charlie Kirk is that he was a</b><b>very young man. Yeah. He was 31. I</b><b>believe his birthday is</b><b>next month. He would have</b><b>been 32. I've learned. I knew of Charlie.</b><b>I listened to Charlie at different times.</b><b>He would pop up in social media and I</b><b>would stop to listen to</b><b>what he had to say or to</b><b>listen to his back and forth on college</b><b>campuses. So I certainly knew of Charlie,</b><b>but I've learned a lot about a lot more</b><b>about Charlie just in</b><b>the last few days. And one</b><b>of them is that his birthday is next</b><b>month. He started</b><b>turning point USA, I believe,</b><b>when he was 19, some reports, 18, some</b><b>reports say 19. We can go</b><b>with 18. Did you know he</b><b>was a really good, I guess, football</b><b>player like he could. He was at a</b><b>football camp. I saw on</b><b>social media a video of him throwing</b><b>footballs with some kid that became a</b><b>professional. I just</b><b>saw that today. And he threw like this 45</b><b>yard pass like it was</b><b>nothing. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't</b><b>know that. You know, he's a, he was a big</b><b>tall guy. Six, four.</b><b>Yeah. Six, four. That's pretty</b><b>good height. So that's a NFL quarterback,</b><b>you know, height type of</b><b>guy. Yeah. I did see a video</b><b>short of his or, you know, I think people</b><b>were talking shit like,</b><b>Oh, you can't throw football.</b><b>And he put up a short showing him doing</b><b>that. It was at some college</b><b>campus in a, in a stadium. And</b><b>yeah, he launched it. Yeah. Nice pass you</b><b>through. Yeah. It's a, it's a aspect</b><b>again, I didn't know</b><b>about him. So, but he started turning</b><b>point. I want to say this</b><b>was in 2012, very young, if the</b><b>math, math's and with just a folding</b><b>table and a chair, he would</b><b>go to college campuses with a</b><b>sign that would say prove me wrong and</b><b>really promote discussion</b><b>conversation. You know, the</b><b>concept of going into a college campus, I</b><b>was thinking back to</b><b>myself and how old, you know,</b><b>when I was on a college campus and I was,</b><b>and if somebody like</b><b>Charlie Kirk would have come to my</b><b>college campus, I was in college from</b><b>1989 to 1993. If somebody</b><b>would have, he was born in</b><b>1993. No, it's a trick. He was wow. Yeah.</b><b>So if somebody would have</b><b>come to our college campus,</b><b>because we went to school together. Um,</b><b>do you, do you remember who did come to</b><b>our college campus? Jerry</b><b>Brown came to our college</b><b>campus, the previous governor of</b><b>California, but do you know who else</b><b>came? Nothing. Not that I</b><b>could think of Jesse Jackson. Oh, maybe.</b><b>Do you remember that? Jesse</b><b>Jackson came. He's from the,</b><b>the SCU, the Stevenson union. Yeah. And</b><b>it, what's remarkable is there was no</b><b>security. Maybe there</b><b>was, right? There might've been security.</b><b>Yeah. The way that all that</b><b>campus laid out is it was kind</b><b>of in a bowl in a sense, right? He walked</b><b>down the hill. Yeah. He was</b><b>right there at the, the, the,</b><b>the student union. Um, I remember going</b><b>and listening to him. It</b><b>was a trip and I'm no Jesse</b><b>Jackson fan, but I know I'm skipping</b><b>ahead in some ways, but I never thought</b><b>I'd do anything bad.</b><b>Right. No, no. It was when he was Jesse</b><b>Jackson, part of the</b><b>rainbow coalition. And he was just</b><b>getting into like official politics. I</b><b>think he ran right when Clinton was</b><b>president. Yes. Jesse</b><b>Jackson was one of the candidates and he,</b><b>he was going to colleges</b><b>and he swung through Ashland.</b><b>And I remember seeing him there. Yeah.</b><b>Because we went to, again,</b><b>um, at the time it was called</b><b>Southern Oregon state college in Ashland,</b><b>Oregon, this beautiful</b><b>Shakespearean artsy community,</b><b>still gorgeous. Um, in a Valley, 20 miles</b><b>north of the California</b><b>border, very small school,</b><b>small community. So when anyone would</b><b>come to our campus, I</b><b>totally forgot about Jesse</b><b>Jackson. I went to Jerry Brown. You know,</b><b>who else came that was</b><b>famous? Who fish? Yes. So we,</b><b>yes. Side track. We saw fish in a very</b><b>small, like gymnasium type. And there was</b><b>like a hundred of us.</b><b>It was when fish just started out totally</b><b>off topic. So if somebody</b><b>like Charlie Kirk had come</b><b>to our campus, I look back at the person</b><b>I was then young, uh,</b><b>really didn't know anything, but I</b><b>thought I did. I don't know if I would</b><b>have, I certainly wouldn't</b><b>have stopped to have a conversation with</b><b>him. I probably would</b><b>have, I would have completely</b><b>totally judged him and completely scoffed</b><b>and probably stood there</b><b>and laughed along with people.</b><b>Some of the things I would have been</b><b>immature. I wouldn't have</b><b>had the maturity to realize</b><b>the impact of what he was doing. It</b><b>doesn't matter what his</b><b>views were. I wouldn't have</b><b>had the maturity to realize that he was</b><b>coming into the lion's den</b><b>of idealistic thought and</b><b>welcoming altering views, altering</b><b>opinions. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have,</b><b>I'm saying for myself</b><b>personally, the person I was then, I</b><b>would not have recognized</b><b>the importance of that of just</b><b>what he was trying to do. You maybe would</b><b>have, I don't think I would</b><b>have. What I mean by that is</b><b>I'm not claiming any intellectual or</b><b>foresight authority or superiority. I</b><b>don't, I'm not saying</b><b>I would have recognized the impact or the</b><b>power of him coming</b><b>because quite frankly,</b><b>times are different. Him coming would</b><b>have been not that big a deal because</b><b>there was discourse.</b><b>People would have conversations and</b><b>disagree and agree and it never led, it</b><b>didn't lead to violence</b><b>at that time. I think back in the</b><b>sixties, it did probably, right? With</b><b>Vietnam and a lot of</b><b>civil rights movement and stuff like</b><b>that, there was something</b><b>very tense and it's tense now.</b><b>Back in the late eighties, early</b><b>nineties, you could have a conversation</b><b>and it would not have led to violence.</b><b>And it didn't need to</b><b>be this big, wonderful,</b><b>impactful thing. You didn't need a</b><b>national tour to go</b><b>and spread the word to</b><b>deprogram or change the thinking, right?</b><b>The mass thinking that I think is</b><b>happening right now.</b><b>Um, a quick sidebar. I remember my first</b><b>time going through Berkeley, Berkeley,</b><b>California, and we hit UC Berkeley. I</b><b>remember walking through</b><b>there and there was like a person</b><b>there on the megaphone just preaching to</b><b>people. And I don't know</b><b>what the hell he was saying.</b><b>He was spouting some crap. And it was</b><b>like, I remember stopping</b><b>and listening and thinking,</b><b>this is fucking amazing. Cause where I</b><b>grew up, that didn't</b><b>happen, right? Small town,</b><b>Northwest Jersey. And there wasn't that</b><b>going on. Um, so these</b><b>are like leftover, you know,</b><b>old hippies sitting there on a, with a</b><b>little, somehow he had a</b><b>megaphone that was, you know,</b><b>back before plugging USB and battery.</b><b>Somehow he had this powered</b><b>megaphone and not a megaphone,</b><b>but an amplifier. Yeah. Just spewing</b><b>stuff. And I thought</b><b>it was great. You know,</b><b>that's an interesting point. Um, when we</b><b>were going to school, it was a fairly,</b><b>even though the Gulf war was going on, it</b><b>was a fairly low conflict</b><b>time on campuses, I think.</b><b>Now where we went to school was very</b><b>liberal. First of all, it's</b><b>Oregon and I'm from Oregon.</b><b>So I know what I'm talking about. It's</b><b>Oregon. It's Southern</b><b>Oregon. Well, you know, even though</b><b>Southern Oregon, um, you know, when you</b><b>get into Eastern Oregon</b><b>and parts of Southern Oregon,</b><b>it isn't as liberal, Portland's liberal,</b><b>Eugene's liberal. Um, and</b><b>then Ashland, of course,</b><b>is liberal, but Medford wasn't liberal,</b><b>which is right. So, um, but then, right.</b><b>But then the school,</b><b>um, itself was of course, very liberal,</b><b>very liberal. And, and</b><b>that was fine. You know,</b><b>that was especially, um, at that point in</b><b>my life, that completely</b><b>was perfect for me. Um,</b><b>but to, to understand what you just said,</b><b>I mean, that's a really good point is</b><b>it wouldn't have been as quite a big a</b><b>deal to have that back and</b><b>forth because people had that</b><b>back and forth. Because even if you</b><b>disagreed with someone, we were kind of</b><b>in an echo chamber though,</b><b>but even if you disagreed with someone,</b><b>you still could have that</b><b>conversation. And there wasn't</b><b>like you said, a concern of violence or</b><b>concern of someone just</b><b>screaming in your face or a concern</b><b>of someone calling you, you know,</b><b>horrendous names or, um,</b><b>accusing you of things or trying</b><b>to ruin your life. You know, all these</b><b>different things, these threat, there</b><b>wasn't a threat to it.</b><b>I don't think you would have been called</b><b>a misogynistic fascist</b><b>racist Nazi. Correct. Right.</b><b>Yes. It might've been called an asshole,</b><b>a conservative, or I</b><b>don't even know. Right. But</b><b>you wouldn't have been called these,</b><b>these horrendous things</b><b>that really have historical</b><b>context and are very, pretty aggressive.</b><b>Yeah. Because I mean, I</b><b>think it is a really good point</b><b>is when we were in college, yet, even if</b><b>you disagreed with someone,</b><b>you didn't, and I disagreed</b><b>with a lot of politicians and I, I went</b><b>to downtown Portland and protested the</b><b>Gulf war, um, when it</b><b>first broke out. So I, you know, again,</b><b>we've been over in Portland.</b><b>You didn't, you didn't do the,</b><b>were you in Ashland when there was like</b><b>that walk through Siski you</b><b>Boulevard or whatever it was?</b><b>I went up to the main protest in</b><b>Portland. That was in</b><b>January, I think, um, you know,</b><b>we've been over a hundred grateful dead</b><b>shows. So we've been in the</b><b>Mecca of the world that would</b><b>have called Charlie Kirk those names back</b><b>then we were in the Mecca, but that</b><b>wouldn't have happened.</b><b>I have a whole theory on this. We'll get</b><b>to it, but that wouldn't</b><b>have happened. So there</b><b>would have been discourse. You could</b><b>agree to disagree, argue, whatever.</b><b>So I think when you think about now you</b><b>fast forward to 2012 and</b><b>what he started and his,</b><b>uh, I think motivations behind why he</b><b>started it, his concept of</b><b>just sit down and prove me wrong.</b><b>So gutsy, right? Um, so I think very</b><b>courageous. And I'm just</b><b>saying that as a person to just</b><b>sit down at a table and say, have a</b><b>subject and say, let's</b><b>debate, prove me wrong. And I know</b><b>there's a ton, a ton, thousands of</b><b>amazing debaters in our country and in</b><b>the world and they enjoy it.</b><b>They get off on it. I'm sure it's a huge</b><b>adrenaline rush. I don't</b><b>even know cause I'm a horrendous</b><b>debater and I've never been put in that</b><b>position, but I've always</b><b>admired people who can debate and</b><b>who just have so much knowledge to just</b><b>pull out so many facts.</b><b>Have you ever, have you ever</b><b>watched the debate, like a high school</b><b>debate or a college debate?</b><b>I have, but it's been years.</b><b>Yeah, it's been years, but it's really</b><b>impressive. It's incredibly</b><b>impressive. And I think, um,</b><b>and I think you have to be, you have to</b><b>read a lot in order to be a decent</b><b>debater. You have to be</b><b>smart and you have to educate yourself</b><b>constantly because to be able to just</b><b>come back, I think it's</b><b>amazing. That's super impressive is he</b><b>did it all just standing there with his</b><b>head, with the, with</b><b>the head on his shoulders and would talk</b><b>about any topic. It's really</b><b>remarkable. Cause he doesn't,</b><b>he's not a college educated kid. He's</b><b>obviously was a, what a</b><b>prodigy of sorts, right? To be able</b><b>to do that. I would assume so. You know,</b><b>he had his own outlook on</b><b>college too. And, and the death</b><b>that people go in, you know, he had his</b><b>outlook, name a subject he</b><b>could speak to it. Um, so what</b><b>he did was create this movement and he</b><b>would go in and he would say, if you</b><b>disagree with me, come</b><b>to the front row, the people that</b><b>disagree with me, he platforms what they</b><b>would consider, they,</b><b>they would consider themselves his</b><b>opposition. He platformed</b><b>his quote unquote opposition.</b><b>I don't think he viewed them as his</b><b>opposition. I think he</b><b>welcomed discourse and open discussion</b><b>and communication and persuasion and</b><b>really enjoyed hearing the aspect of</b><b>people's thoughts and</b><b>opinions and motivations behind why they</b><b>feel the way they feel.</b><b>And then enjoyed, you know,</b><b>trying to persuade them as to why he's</b><b>right. I think he enjoyed</b><b>the whole exercise of it.</b><b>Whereas I think a lot of the people that</b><b>came up to the podium to debate him,</b><b>not everyone, but a lot viewed him as an</b><b>enemy. Not realizing,</b><b>viewed him as the opposition,</b><b>not realizing he, he's actually the</b><b>opposite because he was</b><b>sitting here with an open,</b><b>openness of, Hey, let's talk. Yeah. Hey,</b><b>that's dangerous. You</b><b>know, obviously. Yeah.</b><b>I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I,</b><b>it's a, it's an interesting one because</b><b>he's obviously a conservative guy, you</b><b>know, standard tall,</b><b>short-haired, good looking white</b><b>dude with conservative beliefs, very</b><b>religious. Um, I don't know</b><b>if, you know, maybe he was</b><b>considered the opposition, but a lot of</b><b>you look at a lot of the</b><b>videos, if you binge watch a bit,</b><b>it's a lot of people that come on with,</b><b>you know, you know, purple</b><b>hair, blue hair, earrings,</b><b>tattoos, right? The polar opposite of</b><b>him. And into your point,</b><b>he was, it was, tell me what</b><b>you got type of thing. Let's talk about</b><b>it. Yeah. But I think those people, as</b><b>you watch them go up</b><b>to the mic to talk to him, they view it</b><b>as they're, they're ready to take him on,</b><b>you know, and that's</b><b>fine. I think in debate, that's part of</b><b>it. But I think, I think he</b><b>was viewed by so many as the</b><b>enemy. And I think so much of that was</b><b>from misinformation. Um,</b><b>I think I just, I think</b><b>there's was a lot of clips, quotes of his</b><b>that were taken out of</b><b>context, out of context,</b><b>and, um, put out there that people bought</b><b>into and didn't understand that,</b><b>you know, it's really an amazing thing</b><b>because he would, he</b><b>would have a great, uh,</b><b>response to someone and have facts and</b><b>reasons, and it would make</b><b>perfect sense. But within there,</b><b>there was maybe one sentence, and then</b><b>somebody would take that</b><b>sentence and say, Charlie Kirk</b><b>said this, and then use it towards, um,</b><b>just use it to dehumanize</b><b>him. Yeah. But it's happened to</b><b>us as well, right? So we've had people,</b><b>we've said something and</b><b>people jump on little sound bite.</b><b>It's the danger. We're not Charlie Kirk</b><b>here with the user base or</b><b>anything or the following, but</b><b>it happens. Happens at all levels. It</b><b>does happen. So, but I think the</b><b>dehumanization of him.</b><b>So one of, I think his most powerful, one</b><b>of the reasons I think</b><b>that, um, his opposition was</b><b>trying to stop him was because he was so</b><b>influential and he was so</b><b>influential on the youth.</b><b>He was the first person to go into</b><b>colleges to listen to the youth and to,</b><b>um, actually have an</b><b>impact in changing their minds on certain</b><b>subjects. And as a result,</b><b>that has a political effect,</b><b>right? Because a lot of people say he was</b><b>instrumental in getting</b><b>the youth vote for Trump.</b><b>So his influence over the youth, that's</b><b>really the age</b><b>demographic that companies want,</b><b>that so many people want to attract,</b><b>right? 18 to 18 to 30 or whatever. Um, he</b><b>got him. He got them.</b><b>Well, but you know, that's one of my,</b><b>I've got a couple of</b><b>observations since he was killed.</b><b>And one of them is the media's response</b><b>to it, mass media. And</b><b>I'll throw in like the main,</b><b>the mainstream media, right? The Fox is</b><b>the CNN, the MSNBC is the Atlantic, um,</b><b>daily mail or whatever it read all these</b><b>different outlets. And then there's the</b><b>political spectrum of this here. Here's</b><b>my theory. If you listen to the</b><b>commentary from, um,</b><b>and you can do a comparative contrast on</b><b>this when Trump was the</b><b>attempted assassination of</b><b>Trump over the summer, MSNBC, CNBC, the</b><b>left, let's call it the left</b><b>side of the left leaning media.</b><b>They were like, took a pause and then</b><b>just got back into mud, slinging,</b><b>shitting on him, right? And inflammatory</b><b>language. Um, what I've noticed this time</b><b>is, is, and it's partly, I think it's</b><b>because there's a</b><b>demographic they just don't care about.</b><b>When it comes to Trump, it's probably 50,</b><b>50, right? Half the</b><b>country's flying with them. Half</b><b>the country hates them. And, but with</b><b>Charlie, what I, what I think I've</b><b>noticed is that I didn't</b><b>realize he was such a force. Like I've</b><b>listened to him. Like you were saying</b><b>earlier, I've seen him.</b><b>I've listened to him. Um, I can't sit</b><b>here and say I'm the</b><b>biggest fan of his or whatever.</b><b>Cause I just, I've semi tuned out, right?</b><b>I'm involved. I'm interested in politics,</b><b>but at the same time, there's always,</b><b>it's just these two sides and</b><b>it's just constantly going at</b><b>it. Um, but what I've noticed is the</b><b>media, the media wants Charlie's</b><b>followers. They do not want</b><b>to alienate Charlie's followers. So</b><b>they've handled the</b><b>reporting of him somewhat fairly,</b><b>right? Fox for sure has because he was</b><b>family to them. Charlie was</b><b>on Fox quite a bit. Charlie's</b><b>in with the Trump family, the JD Vance,</b><b>Marco Rubio, the Trump</b><b>kids, right? Everybody. So</b><b>Charlie's in on the right and they're of</b><b>course going to treat him</b><b>fairly, hold him with, with</b><b>great reverence. And they're sad because</b><b>they hung out with the guy.</b><b>They were friends with him.</b><b>They've lost one of their own. But when</b><b>you go to CNN and MSNBC, especially,</b><b>cause that's what's on</b><b>TV, right? If you want to watch, if you</b><b>want to sit and not have</b><b>to go scour the internet,</b><b>which I do as well. But for those few</b><b>outlets, they don't want to</b><b>piss off this youth, right? This,</b><b>there's a massive, even the kids, I don't</b><b>think kids are as divided</b><b>left and right. They are</b><b>actually, they are obviously, or, or, but</b><b>at least I think the kids all</b><b>knew him. If you're 15 or 12</b><b>or even younger up through our age, but</b><b>especially that, that, that, that</b><b>segment, I'm failing to say</b><b>the right word, but if you're in that,</b><b>that bracket where the</b><b>marketers want you CNN and MSNBC are</b><b>playing very nicely. They don't care</b><b>about us anymore, right?</b><b>We're, we're, we're, we're aging</b><b>out of the demographic. They don't</b><b>totally care about us</b><b>anymore, but they want kids that are</b><b>younger than us. So anybody say 40 and</b><b>younger or whatever,</b><b>whoever's got the money, it's,</b><b>it's fascinating because they've handled</b><b>Charlie so much differently. They've</b><b>actually, MSNBC fired</b><b>a guy and I've read his rebuttal to it.</b><b>He might be right. He made a</b><b>comment that he's saying the</b><b>timing of it is, was there were shots</b><b>fired. And what he said was</b><b>when nobody even know if it,</b><b>that Charlie got shot. Does that true? No</b><b>clue. Do I care to follow</b><b>out? I don't care. I could</b><b>give a shit, but even MSNBC fired someone</b><b>for saying something in</b><b>this case, those commentators</b><b>have said absolutely horrendous</b><b>inflammatory comments about Trump and</b><b>other politicians on</b><b>the right. Look at the view. The view is</b><b>even handled Charlie with kid gloves.</b><b>Have they? I haven't seen anything.</b><b>Yeah. What have they said?</b><b>That you shouldn't kill people. Right. If</b><b>Trump was killed, they would have said,</b><b>oh, your words have meaning. Your words</b><b>matter. And they would</b><b>have written it off and then</b><b>celebrated. And there's no doubt in my</b><b>mind, right? But this is</b><b>a business component here.</b><b>I believe it. You know, what's</b><b>interesting is that TMZ, when they</b><b>announced that he died,</b><b>some of their staffers in the background</b><b>right before they announced it were</b><b>cheering and laughing.</b><b>And then the guy Harvey on TMZ announced</b><b>it. And now they've been</b><b>trying to backtrack saying,</b><b>oh no, there was a car chase going on and</b><b>they were cheering on</b><b>the car chase. But then</b><b>people on social media are showing the</b><b>actual video of the car</b><b>chase. Nothing's happening.</b><b>Like there's no reason to be cheering.</b><b>Like, and first of all, who cheers like</b><b>that for a car chase,</b><b>but either way, there's nothing happening</b><b>within the car chase in</b><b>that time that Charlie died.</b><b>There was nothing exciting happening in</b><b>the car chase for</b><b>people to cheer and laugh.</b><b>And then right when it was announced was</b><b>when they cheered and laughed,</b><b>they're trying to backtrack because like</b><b>you said, like they</b><b>want that demographic.</b><b>Yeah. That's the right word. Demograph.</b><b>Here's the thing is his influence on that</b><b>demographic cannot be</b><b>overstated enough. Like</b><b>it's amazing the hold he had because like</b><b>you said, even if you</b><b>disagreed with him and these</b><b>youth that disagree with him knew about</b><b>him, obviously because the</b><b>one who killed him was 22.</b><b>Right. Yeah. So, um, the, he was a</b><b>powerful man, but the way he became</b><b>powerful was through</b><b>talking words, thoughts, ideas, and</b><b>words, ideas, opinions,</b><b>words, and being willing to talk to</b><b>anyone, anyone with respect, when he</b><b>always was respectful and</b><b>gave them the respect and</b><b>platformed the people that came up to</b><b>talk to him. That's what I don't think</b><b>was understood is he was</b><b>giving a microphone and a voice to the</b><b>people that opposed him and</b><b>saying, let's talk it out.</b><b>Yeah. And that's what's been extinguished</b><b>here is he never</b><b>fought. He wasn't a soldier.</b><b>He wasn't a politician. He wasn't making</b><b>any laws. He wasn't lobbying for, he was,</b><b>he was a guy who went into college</b><b>campuses and said, let's</b><b>talk about these things.</b><b>You disagree with me.</b><b>Let's talk about it.</b><b>I don't think, I don't think I would say</b><b>he didn't lobby for anything</b><b>because he definitely did. He</b><b>lobbied for the antithesis of everything</b><b>on the extreme left. He</b><b>lobbied for a Christian faith.</b><b>You could argue that. I'm not a Christian</b><b>faith advocate</b><b>outselling it, but I don't care.</b><b>It's always, it is what it is, right? He</b><b>advocated for</b><b>marriage and nuclear family.</b><b>He advocated for peace and talking over</b><b>violence. He advocated for</b><b>things like everybody should be</b><b>treated equally. There should be no</b><b>discrimination against anybody, whether</b><b>it's a say a person of a</b><b>minority group or a person in a majority</b><b>group. Right. So it was</b><b>more, he's a very egalitarian</b><b>type of person. So he did, but that's his</b><b>platform. So he, you could</b><b>argue he lobbied for that.</b><b>Sure. I meant more as a</b><b>true lobbyist on Capitol Hill.</b><b>But he had a profound influence on that</b><b>school of thought. And when</b><b>you go to the belly of the</b><b>beast, the belly of the beast is college</b><b>campuses. It's changed since</b><b>we were there. When we were</b><b>there, we went to a liberal arts college,</b><b>extremely liberal,</b><b>right? Extremely liberal,</b><b>but it was liberal, not fanatic. It was</b><b>still a place where you</b><b>could share ideas and have ideas.</b><b>It wasn't this fanatical thing where you</b><b>had to be a certain way to</b><b>progress. You had to play a</b><b>game, right? That's just life, but it</b><b>wasn't completely over</b><b>the top fanatical, you know,</b><b>dogma. Right. And that's, so he's, he</b><b>shook that. He shook that foundation.</b><b>He did. And I think he, uh, opened the</b><b>minds of a lot of youth.</b><b>He countered what is on</b><b>those campuses, the fanaticism that</b><b>exists on a lot, a lot of</b><b>those campuses and with a lot of</b><b>those professors. Um, he was, he was the</b><b>counterpoint, right? He was the turning</b><b>point for that. Yeah.</b><b>So like he was so, he was so powerful in</b><b>what he did. And I, you</b><b>know, why though, I think,</b><b>not to interrupt you, sorry, I think he</b><b>was so powerful because</b><b>he, people, he had people</b><b>thinking and you sure as hell cannot have</b><b>people thinking in this</b><b>society. Right. You need people</b><b>doing well, you need people doing what</b><b>they're told. You cannot have them</b><b>thinking. Well, if they</b><b>start thinking the, the, the power, uh,</b><b>the paradigm, it's not the</b><b>power, well, it's all power,</b><b>right? But the paradigms could shift. And</b><b>if the paradigm shifts, that's not</b><b>necessarily good for</b><b>power brokers. That's what happened</b><b>though. Yeah. He got, he got the youth</b><b>thinking and it did shift</b><b>things. One of the quotes that's really</b><b>circulating around, there's a</b><b>few, um, that is circulating</b><b>around social media to help dehumanize</b><b>him, uh, from the opposition</b><b>side that, you know, if you</b><b>don't call it the left liberal, whatever</b><b>is to dehumanize him is,</b><b>um, was about empathy and that</b><b>he didn't believe in empathy. Uh, he</b><b>viewed it as a new age term. So I was</b><b>going to read you the</b><b>actual quote. Okay. Okay. From what he</b><b>said, put on my glasses for this. I</b><b>wonder, um, by chance,</b><b>because I'd be curious of this, if you</b><b>look up the word empathy, right? I don't</b><b>know if the dictionary</b><b>still do this. Maybe if you went to an</b><b>actual dictionary, it</b><b>tells you the origin of a word</b><b>and the date, I think it used to. Yeah.</b><b>Right. I didn't look that</b><b>up for this. I'd be curious.</b><b>Okay. So one of the quotes, I'm going to</b><b>read you one small snippet of a quote</b><b>that people are using to justify why they</b><b>hate Charlie Kirk. Okay.</b><b>He says, I can't stand the</b><b>word empathy. Actually, I think empathy</b><b>is a made up new age</b><b>term. So people are saying,</b><b>we're not going to give him empathy or</b><b>his family empathy for being shot and</b><b>dying because he didn't</b><b>even believe in empathy. So we're going</b><b>to give a right back to him. This is</b><b>obviously people that</b><b>hate him. Now I'm going to read the full</b><b>quote, because that was</b><b>just one little sentence in the</b><b>full quote to give some context. This is</b><b>the full quote. The new communication</b><b>strategy is not to do</b><b>what Bill Clinton used to do where he</b><b>would say, I feel your pain.</b><b>Instead, it is to say you're</b><b>actually not in pain. So let's just a</b><b>little, so let's just say a</b><b>little very short clip. Bill</b><b>Clinton in the 1990s, it was all about</b><b>empathy and sympathy. I</b><b>can't stand the word empathy.</b><b>Actually, I think empathy is a made up</b><b>new age term that it does a lot of</b><b>damage, but it is very</b><b>effective when it comes to politics.</b><b>Sympathy, I prefer more than empathy.</b><b>That's a separate topic</b><b>for a different time. So where the quote</b><b>came from that people are holding on to,</b><b>he was discussing politics. He was</b><b>discussing how empathy is</b><b>used as a tool by politicians.</b><b>He wasn't discussing it on a personal</b><b>level, how you would relate</b><b>to someone if they were shot</b><b>and killed in front of their family. He</b><b>was discussing it as it</b><b>relates to how politicians</b><b>use it. And that's one example of how you</b><b>take one little piece of</b><b>what someone says out of</b><b>context and you use it to dehumanize</b><b>them. So in a lot of ways, I do agree</b><b>with what Charlie Kirk</b><b>was referring to about empathy. I do</b><b>because he was talking about it with</b><b>politics. And I actually</b><b>typed it out because so much has happened</b><b>this week and I have so</b><b>many thoughts in my head</b><b>that I sat down and just really thought,</b><b>how do I put this into words</b><b>to explain how I agree with</b><b>what he was saying when it came to</b><b>empathy in that quote. And I had just</b><b>read you the full quote.</b><b>And when you say your thoughts, are you</b><b>comparing empathy versus sympathy or just</b><b>how it plays out here? No,</b><b>I'm first going to discuss</b><b>how empathy, what Charlie was saying</b><b>about empathy and politics.</b><b>Okay. So let me read the quote,</b><b>and then I'm going to</b><b>read my thoughts on it. Okay.</b><b>Okay. So the quote, the Charlie's full</b><b>quote, "The new</b><b>communication strategy is not to do</b><b>what Bill Clinton used to do, where he</b><b>would say, I feel your</b><b>pain. Instead, it is to say,</b><b>you're actually not in pain." So let's</b><b>just a little very short clip. Bill</b><b>Clinton in the 1990s,</b><b>it was all about empathy and sympathy. I</b><b>can't stand the word</b><b>empathy. Actually, I think empathy</b><b>is a made up new age term that does a lot</b><b>of damage, but is very</b><b>effective when it comes to</b><b>politics. Sympathy, I prefer more than</b><b>empathy. That's a separate</b><b>topic for a different time.</b><b>So then I sat down and wrote down my</b><b>thoughts on empathy because I do agree</b><b>with Charlie Kirk on</b><b>this. The context of the empathy quote</b><b>was politics. He was</b><b>discussing how empathy is very</b><b>effective when it comes to politics.</b><b>Empathy is when you almost enmesh</b><b>yourself into another</b><b>person's experience. You're diving into</b><b>it. Your mind has gone so</b><b>far into the experience that</b><b>your body is almost carrying a form of</b><b>the other person's trauma. You are</b><b>letting their traumatic</b><b>experience into your body, mind and soul</b><b>with no boundaries. This can</b><b>be a very dangerous space to</b><b>reside in. We all have our own life we're</b><b>living and within that</b><b>life we have our own joys and</b><b>sorrows and many of us are still carrying</b><b>trauma from the past. So if</b><b>we're already dealing with</b><b>our own stuff as we go through our day,</b><b>if we come from a place</b><b>of empathy without personal</b><b>protective boundaries when interacting</b><b>with our family, friends,</b><b>acquaintances, parasocial</b><b>relationships on social media and</b><b>strangers both in real life and online,</b><b>it is the equivalent,</b><b>in my opinion, of absorbing someone</b><b>else's experience into</b><b>the fiber of your being</b><b>while simultaneously being a faucet of</b><b>energy that constantly pours into others.</b><b>When people function in a constant state</b><b>of empathy, there is no</b><b>end. There is no peace</b><b>because there will always be tragedy,</b><b>sadness, stress and</b><b>upheaval in life for ourselves and</b><b>for others. It is our responsibility to</b><b>maintain emotional and mental</b><b>boundaries, not only for our</b><b>own self-care mentally, emotionally and</b><b>physically, but so we aren't</b><b>an open and vulnerable vessel</b><b>for those who would target us to use for</b><b>nefarious purpose. So when it comes to</b><b>the Charlie Kirk quote,</b><b>he was referencing Bill Clinton and how</b><b>he used empathy as a</b><b>political tool. With empathy, you can</b><b>end up diving so deep into someone's</b><b>experience that you begin to identify</b><b>with their truth and</b><b>lose sight of your own. Even if your</b><b>truth is similar to theirs,</b><b>it's still your truth, not</b><b>theirs. With empathy, abandonment of your</b><b>own truth may happen</b><b>without you even realizing it.</b><b>I can see how empathy can be one of the</b><b>most effective tools for</b><b>politicians and now it can</b><b>be massively effective when it comes to</b><b>creating identity politics and</b><b>groupthink. And that's what</b><b>he was trying to say, is that empathy is</b><b>a dangerous tool when</b><b>it comes to politics.</b><b>Yeah, no, that's a lot. So what is this?</b><b>Yeah, no, you know, it's</b><b>a lot because I, you know,</b><b>it's a semantical difference. Maybe it's</b><b>important, maybe it's not, maybe it's</b><b>life or death. It feels</b><b>like maybe it is if, you know, based on</b><b>that, what you're saying</b><b>is if you empathize too much</b><b>and take on other people's plight and</b><b>existence at too personal</b><b>of a level that's actually</b><b>different than your own, then you can</b><b>start to lose concept of</b><b>yourself, your own plight,</b><b>your own frame of reference, and then now</b><b>be opened up to pure</b><b>manipulation. Yes. Is that what</b><b>you're saying? Yes. And that's what he</b><b>was trying to say, but then he said he</b><b>prefers sympathy. Right?</b><b>So let me ask you, well, go ahead and</b><b>you're going to talk about sympathy</b><b>because I do have a question</b><b>to differentiate. So then he talks about</b><b>he prefers sympathy. So</b><b>then I thought about that</b><b>and I wrote down my thoughts on that.</b><b>Sympathy is when you are able to</b><b>experience someone else's</b><b>suffering with them and show them</b><b>compassion, but you still have enough</b><b>emotional and mental distance</b><b>to maintain your own experience and</b><b>truth. You don't get lost in the other</b><b>person's experience.</b><b>Sympathy and compassion are essential to</b><b>the human experience and</b><b>our emotions we should use</b><b>and show our fellow humans when needed.</b><b>Empathy, in my opinion,</b><b>is used for more selective</b><b>circumstances, not as an overall brush</b><b>reaction to most things.</b><b>For example, when our children</b><b>go through hard situations or sad</b><b>experiences, I can say for myself,</b><b>empathy is immediately</b><b>triggered in me. It's my go-to with my</b><b>children. That said, there were</b><b>definitely instances where</b><b>I should have learned more, leaned more</b><b>into sympathy. Empathy</b><b>is the mama bear. I'll do</b><b>anything for my children reaction. And as</b><b>a mother, there were many</b><b>times I felt those emotions ride</b><b>along with them. I think that's a very</b><b>normal experience for a</b><b>parent and it never really ends.</b><b>The challenge for a parent is to have the</b><b>self-awareness to rein in</b><b>our empathy if diving in</b><b>isn't required in the situation. I'm not</b><b>saying to abandon what</b><b>your child is going through.</b><b>Absolutely not. But sympathy and</b><b>compassion may be enough of a reaction</b><b>and empathy, if overused,</b><b>could actually make things seem worse</b><b>because the parent's</b><b>overall perspective could be lost</b><b>in that moment. And that's how I view</b><b>sympathy. Yeah, interesting.</b><b>Does that make sense? Yeah,</b><b>no, it does. I think I'm more of a</b><b>sympathizer probably than an empathizer,</b><b>especially when it comes to the kids</b><b>because, yeah, it sucks you</b><b>got a bad grade, but that's</b><b>your problem. You should have studied</b><b>harder. My first is empathetic, right?</b><b>And so, and in times,</b><b>that's appropriate, but there are times I</b><b>should have been more</b><b>sympathetic instead of empathetic.</b><b>And I will say as a person, I know I have</b><b>spent a good part of my</b><b>life being way too empathetic</b><b>and I did not have personal boundaries</b><b>and I would absorb</b><b>people's experiences and I would</b><b>dive too deep and I would lose</b><b>perspective and I would lose my truth.</b><b>And it became where you</b><b>almost want to help them solve their</b><b>problems so badly that you</b><b>ignore any of your own issues.</b><b>You immediately are just there and in it</b><b>and that's dangerous</b><b>and not good for yourself.</b><b>So imagine if you have an entire group</b><b>that is empathetic to a</b><b>cause and it couldn't even be a</b><b>cause that's not even real. It's a made</b><b>up cause or whatever, who knows, but</b><b>whatever politicians</b><b>might do, however they may use, people</b><b>who are so vulnerable that</b><b>they're so easily manipulated.</b><b>And I'm not saying it's a left or right</b><b>thing. I'm talking</b><b>about a human experience.</b><b>So when it comes to politics, empathy</b><b>should not be a factor here</b><b>and that's what he was saying.</b><b>I'm semi blown away. I don't know if I</b><b>can articulate this, but</b><b>in some ways you've just described the</b><b>foundation of persistent racism to</b><b>constantly say you need</b><b>to empathize with, I say black people,</b><b>right? I'm of the mindset a hundred</b><b>percent. I view black</b><b>people as equals. I truly do a hundred</b><b>percent intellectual,</b><b>physically, emotionally equals.</b><b>And I find that so many people feel like,</b><b>oh, we need to, they need</b><b>to be, they need our help.</b><b>If we don't help them, then we're being</b><b>racist or if we don't help</b><b>them, they're never going to make</b><b>it. And I'm sitting back kind of like,</b><b>no, I don't think so. I</b><b>know, no, they're capable. Stop,</b><b>stop doing that. What you're doing is</b><b>racist because you think</b><b>they're not equal. You do not</b><b>believe that they are equal. And I truly</b><b>believe all people are equal. They're</b><b>circumstantial things</b><b>that happen in all of our lives that</b><b>separate us. Right. It's very</b><b>well known. If you're born in a</b><b>certain zip code, you have a better shot</b><b>at life than people born in</b><b>other zip codes, right? It's</b><b>really that simple. It's down to a zip</b><b>code level. That's fucked up,</b><b>but that's just the world we</b><b>live in. And I can sympathize with that.</b><b>Using your definition and</b><b>logic, you can't empathize</b><b>with it because there's not a goddamn</b><b>thing you can do about it.</b><b>And you can, I mean, I shouldn't</b><b>say that. It's not a lost cause, but very</b><b>interesting. You can</b><b>sympathize with it and have</b><b>compassion. And if there's ways that you</b><b>can help change it, you can</b><b>take action. But if you drown</b><b>in empathy, it becomes just a virtue,</b><b>virtue signaling. And it</b><b>becomes this, it becomes</b><b>virtue signaling, honestly. And nothing</b><b>ever happens. And it's</b><b>almost like it's an acceptance</b><b>of, well, this is just how it is. And so</b><b>we're just going to keep, and it's like,</b><b>no, it's almost like</b><b>when you want to believe in your, you</b><b>need to believe in your</b><b>child enough to do great things</b><b>so that they will do great things. You</b><b>have to, you have to</b><b>believe in other people and not,</b><b>and they not, you're almost treating like</b><b>you would be treating a</b><b>group of people. So let's say</b><b>black people, like they, you don't</b><b>believe in them enough to accomplish</b><b>things without your help.</b><b>That is the predominant belief that a lot</b><b>of people have. And I</b><b>will, I say I misspoke in some</b><b>ways. I do think on the empathy front,</b><b>you know, there's a, you can</b><b>solve for the zip code stuff.</b><b>And we, you know, there's just different</b><b>opportunities. There's</b><b>programs there. You can</b><b>do a few tax incentives. You know, this</b><b>zip code's not doing great.</b><b>Let's give a tax incentive to</b><b>somebody set up job, whatever it is.</b><b>There's economic. Yes.</b><b>But I do think the empathy</b><b>part of this is emotional, which is what</b><b>is, which is clouds,</b><b>any type of systematic or</b><b>fact-driven approach to solving any</b><b>problems. So locked in, in empathy and</b><b>emotions. And that's</b><b>why I say it never ends. That's why I say</b><b>if, if you are constantly</b><b>feeding that everything's so</b><b>sad and wrong and bad, and, and you're</b><b>only focusing on all the</b><b>wrongs and all the sads and that,</b><b>and that here's the villains, these are</b><b>the villains. And the</b><b>reason that everything is</b><b>so wrong and sad is because of them,</b><b>them, them. Okay. So it's a pressure</b><b>cooker, right? And if you</b><b>have a bunch of people that are</b><b>vulnerable and manipulated</b><b>and, and are just functioning on</b><b>empathy, they're almost like little</b><b>soldiers. Right? Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>No. Oh, like for sure. They</b><b>become mobilized. And then we see what</b><b>happened this week. Right.</b><b>Yeah. So instead of having</b><b>discourse and conversation and talking it</b><b>out, it went to violence.</b><b>Did you, I'm going to switch</b><b>topics or just switch terms in some ways.</b><b>Did you see the quotes</b><b>about diversity versus unity</b><b>and how Charlie used to say, I don't</b><b>believe in diversity. I</b><b>believe in unity. And I was like,</b><b>huh, so that got me thinking because</b><b>living in South Florida, we are the</b><b>epitome of diversity.</b><b>And I feel like it works. It's great. I</b><b>love the diversity of</b><b>South Florida. Yep. I love</b><b>the diversity of even like where I grew</b><b>up in New Jersey, right? New York, New</b><b>Jersey area. There's</b><b>a lot of diversity there, but his take</b><b>was, I don't like diversity because that</b><b>means we're different.</b><b>And whereas I like unity, I think it's</b><b>when you have unity, you</b><b>have strength. And I thought it</b><b>was like, man, that's kind of interesting</b><b>because I really am. I'm in</b><b>the dogma of I think diversity</b><b>is okay, you know, and I love it. And but</b><b>his unity concept was</b><b>like, look, and I'm going to</b><b>piece it together. I didn't totally dive</b><b>down the rabbit hole on it, but kind of</b><b>makes sense. I think</b><b>it's what makes South Florida work well,</b><b>because there's so much</b><b>diversity that we all unify around</b><b>it in some ways. We are unified amongst</b><b>our diversity. And I</b><b>think that's what he's talking</b><b>about. Yeah, I think he was saying, let's</b><b>instead of seeing each</b><b>other differently, we're just</b><b>together. Yeah, we're all together. It's</b><b>really interesting you said that because</b><b>we live in a very diverse area. And you</b><b>don't, I think if people</b><b>came here from other parts of</b><b>the country, they would notice it. And</b><b>oh, yeah, you don't even notice it when</b><b>you live in a diverse</b><b>area. It's just how it is like, you're</b><b>saying people up at an</b><b>individual level, rather than by</b><b>the color of their skin, the ethnic</b><b>background, you know what I mean? Yes,</b><b>you size them up. All</b><b>right, is this good? Or bad? Yes, by safe</b><b>or not type of thing that</b><b>you know, it's not based on</b><b>any of anything except like whatever,</b><b>however, you would normally</b><b>size someone up. It's not based.</b><b>So what's interesting, though, is I</b><b>think, like where I'm from Oregon,</b><b>there's not a lot of</b><b>diversity, let's be real. I mean, I'm</b><b>sure there's more than when I live there.</b><b>But come on. So I do</b><b>think, you know, it's up from like maybe</b><b>90 percent, no diversity.</b><b>It might be it might be at 88</b><b>percent or something like that. But it's</b><b>still pretty it's still</b><b>not a whole big diverse area.</b><b>No, it's not. And I think I</b><b>think out in places like that,</b><b>where some of the there are some of the</b><b>people that spout, you know, you're</b><b>racist, you're racist,</b><b>when they're actually more racist than</b><b>the people that live within</b><b>diversity, if that makes sense,</b><b>because they're seeing everyone by their</b><b>skin color and they're not</b><b>living in that unity that</b><b>Charlie Kirk was talking about, because</b><b>it is unity through</b><b>diversity down here. And so I</b><b>I do think that that's we're living it.</b><b>And we had another another</b><b>controversial front or statement,</b><b>maybe in that same short I saw video I</b><b>saw, but he was talking</b><b>about how he prefers unity</b><b>over diversity. And he prefers he does</b><b>want a single language. His</b><b>concept was I want a single</b><b>language because everyone speak in the</b><b>same language we can</b><b>actually communicate. Right.</b><b>But if you don't understand each other,</b><b>then you can't communicate</b><b>and then you have problems.</b><b>Right. I was you know, it's interesting</b><b>thought provoking. I'm not</b><b>that doesn't piss me off.</b><b>It's thought provoking. I don't know if I</b><b>agree with it. I think it makes sense. I</b><b>think it makes sense.</b><b>You know, I think people should</b><b>absolutely I think it's</b><b>amazing if you're bilingual or</b><b>trialing or whatever. You know, I think</b><b>that's phenomenal. I wish</b><b>I was. Yeah. But I do think</b><b>when you go out into the world in</b><b>America, I'm just speaking</b><b>about America, if everyone spoke</b><b>the same language, that would only aid in</b><b>unity, unifying us more.</b><b>And I do witness that I will</b><b>say in South Florida is you are amongst a</b><b>lot of people that are</b><b>speaking a lot of different</b><b>languages. And sometimes that is</b><b>isolating. You know, like I could be at</b><b>Costco and I'm walking</b><b>around and I'm hearing, of course,</b><b>Spanish, but then sometimes French and</b><b>different. And so you</b><b>would do kind of getting a little mental</b><b>bubble because we had a</b><b>guest on where when she was in</b><b>China, she called it kind of white noise</b><b>because everyone. And you</b><b>do. So it does affect that</b><b>connection with people in real life</b><b>because, well, they're speaking different</b><b>language. No big deal.</b><b>I'm not offended by it, but I'm not going</b><b>to engage with them in</b><b>any way because I don't know</b><b>if they speak English. What's interesting</b><b>in a small example,</b><b>but I think it's salient.</b><b>To your point down here, you go to</b><b>Orlando or in a hotel here, most of the</b><b>cleaning folks are going</b><b>to be Spanish, right? Right. It's just</b><b>the way the world is right</b><b>now in this country. When we</b><b>were up in D.C., the first night, I</b><b>forget where the place we</b><b>stayed at, but I was going on the</b><b>elevator a couple of times and I engaged</b><b>with the staff, but they</b><b>didn't. I don't know if they were</b><b>in the shadows or if they didn't speak</b><b>English, but they didn't</b><b>engage. And it was interesting.</b><b>And it was just like, you know, we get</b><b>we've pressed the button and</b><b>I'm like, you know, go ahead.</b><b>Type of thing. And I don't know what it</b><b>just there wasn't an</b><b>engagement and I don't think</b><b>they spoke English is what it was. So it</b><b>was very interesting</b><b>because they didn't have any</b><b>English tools. They couldn't totally make</b><b>it comfortable for them in some ways.</b><b>But I do find down here, like you said, a</b><b>lot of the staff is</b><b>Spanish, but they will engage.</b><b>100 percent. And you do. I mean, we</b><b>engage with everybody, but</b><b>yeah, they'll reciprocate back.</b><b>And it's great. So there isn't, but they</b><b>do speak enough English</b><b>to engage 100 percent.</b><b>So they've they've learned enough. Hello.</b><b>How are you? Yeah. All</b><b>that. Thank you. Yeah.</b><b>So I think I have a nice day. Yeah.</b><b>That's basic conversation.</b><b>Honestly, I think if there's</b><b>anything that Charlie Kirk really</b><b>symbolized, it was talking face to face</b><b>with people in real life,</b><b>getting off of phones, getting off of</b><b>social media, going and</b><b>having an old fashioned</b><b>conversation face to face. We may not</b><b>agree. There may we may be</b><b>in complete opposite ends</b><b>in many areas, but let's talk about it.</b><b>And we used to do that at the dinner</b><b>table. We used to do</b><b>that when we'd go out to restaurants. It</b><b>used to be feel safe</b><b>saying almost any talking about</b><b>anything in public. And everyone got so</b><b>quieted down with political</b><b>correctness and and social</b><b>media and everything. So I think what he</b><b>was symbolizing is really</b><b>old school in a lot of ways.</b><b>If you think about it and just let's just</b><b>talk. You know, it's funny. It makes</b><b>I just thought of this as you were saying</b><b>that. But when I worked</b><b>at the nursery in Portland,</b><b>I spoke English and everybody else spoke</b><b>Spanish. But we all</b><b>communicated. I got to be pretty</b><b>friendly with those guys. Yeah. And, you</b><b>know, even helped one of</b><b>them passes his American</b><b>citizenship test. Yeah. And we would at</b><b>lunch, I would, you know,</b><b>we'd sit in the little lunchroom</b><b>there and we'd talk and teach each other</b><b>words. They taught me all</b><b>the bad words. Right. I've</b><b>told you about. Yeah. I knew all the</b><b>Spanish swear words, but</b><b>I would teach them things.</b><b>And it was good. But they probably wanted</b><b>to learn English. 100</b><b>percent wanted to learn.</b><b>There was a pride in coming here and</b><b>learning English. And that</b><b>has flipped a little bit too,</b><b>as far as I think there's some situations</b><b>where it's almost like</b><b>maybe some groups have come here</b><b>and they're prideful about not</b><b>acclimating into society and holding on</b><b>to their own culture,</b><b>which you 100 percent should hold on to</b><b>your culture. You know,</b><b>but there has to be a natural</b><b>acclimation when you if you're going to</b><b>live in another country</b><b>for the unity of the country,</b><b>for the unity of society. I do think,</b><b>though, they're living in</b><b>the shadows now more so than</b><b>probably ever. Yeah. What I'm describing</b><b>was 30 something years</b><b>ago. And it was a common known</b><b>thing that there's seasonal workers and</b><b>they'll send their money</b><b>home and then they'll probably</b><b>go home when it's whatever out of season</b><b>and then they'll be back. Yeah. And it</b><b>was accepted. And it</b><b>was just a different time. Now there's,</b><b>you know, there's human</b><b>trafficking. No one talks about it.</b><b>In very stark, simple terms, but people</b><b>are trafficked now. So</b><b>they're like, I'm just laying</b><b>low. I'm just here because I don't want</b><b>to, you know, whatever that</b><b>is, whatever that story is,</b><b>they're staying low there. And that could</b><b>be in play when we're in</b><b>D.C., right? Down here,</b><b>as crazy as this sounds, right? Florida's</b><b>got a bad rap. DeSantis is,</b><b>we've got alligator Alcatraz.</b><b>We've got DeSantis, right? He said very</b><b>bold statements about</b><b>illegal immigration and stuff,</b><b>but people are still, there's a, there's</b><b>a flow. There's</b><b>communications when we're on walks and we</b><b>see people, you know, we'll engage</b><b>people. They engage us, right? I just</b><b>felt like up in that</b><b>D.C. area, it just wasn't like that for</b><b>whatever reason. It was a different</b><b>culture. Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>It was a different vibe. For sure. I</b><b>wanted to read his quote about Second</b><b>Amendment rights. That one</b><b>is also going around to dehumanize him</b><b>and to justify maybe why</b><b>he should have been killed.</b><b>Yeah. This one's silly. I don't know</b><b>which one you're going to read, but I</b><b>know I'm familiar with it.</b><b>So I'm going to read the quote that's</b><b>going around to help</b><b>dehumanize him, right?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But I think it's worth it. I think it's</b><b>worth to have a cost of,</b><b>unfortunately, some gun deaths</b><b>every single year so that we can have the</b><b>Second Amendment to protect</b><b>our other God-given rights.</b><b>So that's what's going around saying that</b><b>he felt gun deaths are worth</b><b>having the Second Amendment.</b><b>I'm going to now read the</b><b>entire quote in context.</b><b>An attendee asked Charlie what his</b><b>thoughts were on Second Amendment rights.</b><b>He responded, "I'm a big Second Amendment</b><b>fan, but I think most politicians are</b><b>cowards when it comes</b><b>to defending why we have a Second</b><b>Amendment. This is why I would not be a</b><b>good politician, or maybe</b><b>I would, I don't know, because I actually</b><b>speak my mind. The Second</b><b>Amendment is not about hunting.</b><b>I love hunting. The Second Amendment is</b><b>not even about personal</b><b>defense. That is important.</b><b>The Second Amendment is there, God</b><b>forbid, so that you can defend yourself</b><b>against a tyrannical</b><b>government." And if that scares you,</b><b>quote, "Wow, that's radical, Charlie. I</b><b>don't know about that,"</b><b>unquote, well, then you have not really</b><b>read any of the</b><b>literature of our founding fathers.</b><b>Number two, you've not read any 20th</b><b>century history. You're</b><b>just living in Narnia.</b><b>By the way, if you were actually living</b><b>in Narnia, you would be</b><b>wiser than where we are</b><b>living because C.S. Lewis was really</b><b>smart. So I don't know what alternative</b><b>universe you're living</b><b>in. You just don't want to face reality</b><b>that governments tend to</b><b>get tyrannical and that</b><b>the people need an ability to protect</b><b>themselves and their</b><b>communities and their families.</b><b>Now we must also be real. We must be</b><b>honest with the population. Having an</b><b>armed citizenry comes</b><b>with a price and that is part of liberty.</b><b>Driving comes with a</b><b>price. 50,000, 50,000,</b><b>50,000 people die on the road every year.</b><b>That's a price. You get rid</b><b>of driving, you'd have 50,000</b><b>less auto fatalities. But we have decided</b><b>that the benefit of</b><b>driving, speed, accessibility,</b><b>mobility, having products, services, is</b><b>worth the cost of 50,000</b><b>people dying on the road.</b><b>So we need to be very clear that you're</b><b>not going to get gun deaths</b><b>to zero. It will not happen.</b><b>You can significantly reduce them through</b><b>having more fathers in the</b><b>home, by having more armed</b><b>guards in front of schools. We should</b><b>have an honest and clear reductionist</b><b>view of gun violence,</b><b>but we should not have a utopian one. You</b><b>will never live in a</b><b>society when you have an armed</b><b>citizenry and you won't have a single gun</b><b>death. That is nonsense.</b><b>It's drivel. But I think it's</b><b>worth it. I think it's worth to have a</b><b>cost of unfortunately some</b><b>gun deaths every single year</b><b>so that we can have the second amendment</b><b>to protect our other God-given rights.</b><b>That is a prudent deal. It is rational.</b><b>Nobody talks like this. They</b><b>live in a complete alternate</b><b>universe. So then how do you reduce? Very</b><b>simple. People say, "Oh,</b><b>Charlie, how do you stop school</b><b>shootings? I don't know. How did we stop</b><b>shootings at baseball games?</b><b>Because we had armed guards</b><b>outside of baseball games. That's why.</b><b>How do we stop all the shootings at</b><b>airports? We have armed</b><b>guards outside of airports. How do we</b><b>stop all the shootings at banks? We have</b><b>armed guards outside</b><b>of banks. How do we stop all the</b><b>shootings at gun shows? Notice there's</b><b>not a lot of mass shootings</b><b>at gun shows. There's all these guns</b><b>because everyone's armed.</b><b>If our money and our sporting</b><b>events and our airplanes have armed</b><b>guards, why don't our children?" And</b><b>that's the whole quote.</b><b>Yeah, interesting.</b><b>It's not, he wasn't saying, "Ah, yeah,</b><b>it's whatever. Who cares?</b><b>Some deaths. I don't care."</b><b>He was making a very valid point. And I</b><b>will say, I do agree with him</b><b>as far as arming our schools.</b><b>I think all schools should have metal</b><b>detectors. Our youngest son's high school</b><b>has a metal detector</b><b>at every entrance. And we do have a</b><b>couple, I think maybe at</b><b>least two, resource officers,</b><b>and they're armed. They are armed. And we</b><b>have a police car outside</b><b>of our school sitting there.</b><b>In addition to a nice man when you drive</b><b>up on a golf cart that you</b><b>have to give him your name and</b><b>stuff, but I don't think he's armed. I</b><b>don't know. He might be. But I</b><b>100% think our schools should</b><b>not be soft targets. So I do agree with</b><b>that. I think that's rational</b><b>and that makes common sense.</b><b>And I don't understand</b><b>any pushback on that.</b><b>You know what's fascinating actually, as</b><b>I think about it, because why would you,</b><b>don't you think the immediate counter to</b><b>that would be with, you</b><b>know how much that would cost</b><b>to arm and guard every school? But they</b><b>do it for all those</b><b>things you mentioned, right?</b><b>Gun shows, baseball games, the banks,</b><b>airports, nothing's free. As</b><b>a consumer, nothing's free.</b><b>So if you go to a baseball game, part of</b><b>the ticket price is</b><b>security. So it's passed down</b><b>to the consumer. If you go to the bank, I</b><b>don't know, I don't go to</b><b>the bank anymore. Are there</b><b>armed guards? I have no idea. Yeah.</b><b>There's sometimes there's a</b><b>guy, someone standing right</b><b>when you walk in. Yeah. But there's so</b><b>anywhere there's security</b><b>that's getting passed to the</b><b>consumer as the parent of a kid, we're</b><b>the consumer. You're going</b><b>to charge us more in taxes or</b><b>it's don't, don't charge us more. I'm an</b><b>anti-tax guy, but spend the money</b><b>differently and bolster</b><b>the security. I always say mismanagement</b><b>of funds. The money's there.</b><b>Use it for that. Or, you know,</b><b>I know that at least the administration</b><b>we have now would be very</b><b>pro-army in our schools and</b><b>would give federal funds, I'm sure to</b><b>that. But think about the</b><b>jobs you would create. It could</b><b>be a jobs program because you could take</b><b>on more deputies, you know,</b><b>so that could be a full jobs</b><b>program. So that's just my personal</b><b>opinion. Some listeners may disagree with</b><b>me, but I'm 100% about</b><b>metal detectors and about armed guards,</b><b>resource officers at schools.</b><b>And I love seeing a police car</b><b>right in front of a school. I love it.</b><b>Well, you know what got lost in the</b><b>shadows and I don't know</b><b>anything about it. I don't, I'm not</b><b>prepared to talk about it, but</b><b>it it's a shame. I don't know</b><b>if it's a shame. It's just another fucked</b><b>up thing that happens in the world. But</b><b>there was a shooting</b><b>at a Colorado high school the same day,</b><b>right? Completely</b><b>overshadowed, but some kid died.</b><b>I didn't think any of them had died. I</b><b>think the shooter</b><b>either he killed himself or</b><b>they shot him. So, but I think the</b><b>shooter died, but I believe so. Okay. The</b><b>shooter. Yeah, I haven't.</b><b>So we are going to, Brian and I have</b><b>talked about, we are going to</b><b>be doing an episode on school</b><b>shootings because that's another thing</b><b>that would, the what about</b><b>ism is pretty rampant right now.</b><b>Absolutely. School shootings are so</b><b>important to talk about. We are doing</b><b>research on that right</b><b>now because we want to come at it from as</b><b>educated places we can</b><b>through our research.</b><b>So we are going to do an episode on that.</b><b>And there's a couple</b><b>other things going on that we</b><b>want to talk about too. So it's not just</b><b>a episode about Charlie Kirk</b><b>and then we're not going to</b><b>discuss any of these other things that</b><b>are going on. That's been in</b><b>the works for a little bit.</b><b>It's just this Charlie Kirk thing</b><b>happens. Obviously suddenly was</b><b>unexpected and we just</b><b>felt compelled to discuss it for this</b><b>week. But I agree with you. That one kind</b><b>of got lost and also</b><b>the immigrant from Ukraine who was</b><b>brutally murdered by a</b><b>felon that had been arrested 14</b><b>times. Yeah. Monster. Unbelievable. You</b><b>know, I think she was two</b><b>years, two and a half years</b><b>into living the American dream, which she</b><b>had was had fallen in love with. So</b><b>devastating. So do we</b><b>sympathize or empathize with that one? So</b><b>for my own personal</b><b>mental health, I'm sympathizing</b><b>with that one because I have learned that</b><b>when it comes to the</b><b>things that go on in the world,</b><b>I have to sympathize because if I</b><b>empathize, it affects my mental health</b><b>because we have 24 seven</b><b>news, 24 seven news cycle going on and 24</b><b>seven access to social</b><b>media through our phones.</b><b>So we know every single horrible thing</b><b>that's going on in the</b><b>world. And 10 years ago, 15 years</b><b>ago, um, my go-to was always empathy,</b><b>empathy, empathy, and it</b><b>would destroy my mental health.</b><b>And I would feel hopeless and that, um,</b><b>there's nothing that can</b><b>go positive in the world and</b><b>what's going on. And I would have been</b><b>easily manipulated by a</b><b>politician for sure. I've learned</b><b>sympathy. Sympathy is, um, allows me</b><b>personal boundaries where</b><b>I obviously have compassion</b><b>and feel sad and I feel all the things</b><b>and I cry and, uh, depending on the</b><b>situation, but it does</b><b>not, um, completely destroy my mental</b><b>health and I can continue on</b><b>with my life and I can be there</b><b>for my family and for myself. Because if</b><b>you, again, if you empathize</b><b>too much, you lose yourself.</b><b>So with the Ukrainian young woman, my</b><b>sympathy runs very deep, but</b><b>I, I, if I empathize too much,</b><b>it's going to put me in a, I'm going to</b><b>be so destroyed over it,</b><b>you know? And not that she</b><b>doesn't deserve that, but that's not</b><b>going to solve anything.</b><b>I need to function. Right.</b><b>So, because again, this is all also about</b><b>reclaiming your energy and</b><b>holding onto your energy and</b><b>deciding where to put it. So, I mean, I</b><b>think it's, I, listen, if there's</b><b>something I can do to make</b><b>sure that someone doesn't get out after</b><b>being arrested 14 times</b><b>so he can murder someone,</b><b>I would put my energy towards that. Yeah.</b><b>That's much more</b><b>effective. Yeah. But as far as, um,</b><b>that quote, I, I agree with what Charlie</b><b>said as far as the reductionist attitude,</b><b>because the second amendment isn't going</b><b>anywhere. And I do,</b><b>you know, I do think that</b><b>we need to not have our schools be soft</b><b>targets anymore. Yeah. So, but</b><b>unfortunately out of that</b><b>quote, there's the one quote that's being</b><b>put around and, and</b><b>that, but that adds to the</b><b>propaganda, right? And that adds the</b><b>dehumanization. Well, what it adds to is</b><b>the stupid comments,</b><b>like, Oh, he got what he deserved because</b><b>he was, he's just one of the</b><b>casualties. And so it's fine.</b><b>Right. He was, he was okay with this.</b><b>Yes. He was okay with it.</b><b>Cause that's what he espoused.</b><b>Right. Yeah. And that's just, I think, I</b><b>think one of the most</b><b>disturbing things about all this</b><b>for me, obviously, other than Charlie</b><b>Kirk being murdered for</b><b>using words and speaking, um,</b><b>is the celebrations of his death. But I,</b><b>I do attribute people</b><b>that are online celebrating</b><b>his death are mentally ill. I believe</b><b>that because I don't think anyone that</b><b>doesn't have a mental</b><b>illness would celebrate someone else's</b><b>death. I certainly</b><b>wouldn't. There's a lot of people I</b><b>disagree with in my personal life.</b><b>There's a lot of people I disagree with</b><b>online and there's a lot</b><b>of people I disagree with on an</b><b>entertainment and in politics, I would</b><b>never wish death on anyone</b><b>else ever, ever. And so if you're of</b><b>sound mind, I don't think</b><b>you would ever celebrate</b><b>the death of someone and the people that</b><b>are doing this have a mental illness.</b><b>Yeah. That's my opinion on that.</b><b>I'm not as strongly opinion, opinionated</b><b>as you are on this. I'm</b><b>not saying it's okay, but I,</b><b>I'm also, I believe in free speech and</b><b>you have the right to expose</b><b>yourself to be a fucking idiot.</b><b>Right. You really do. Oh, for sure. Yeah.</b><b>You have the right to expose yourself for</b><b>someone who hates and is</b><b>stupid and all of that. So maybe</b><b>maybe I'm just, I'm, I'm fascinated by</b><b>it. To be honest with you, it</b><b>doesn't get me as viscerally</b><b>angry as the act itself. I think like I'm</b><b>really, it bothers me that,</b><b>that somehow this kid thought</b><b>it was okay to go shoot someone because</b><b>of the shit he saw online or</b><b>read and his belief system.</b><b>That bothers me. It's not okay. It's not</b><b>okay to go kill people</b><b>randomly, especially that you don't know</b><b>that they didn't weren't</b><b>trying to harm you. And now I get</b><b>it. Someone's Charlie, Charlie was</b><b>breaking into that kid's</b><b>house and middle of the night or</b><b>whatever. Go for it. You have all go for</b><b>it. I protect yourself, but</b><b>to go out and hunt somebody,</b><b>because that's what he did. He hunted</b><b>this person. He plotted and</b><b>schemed. He scoped it out. He</b><b>figured out how do I get up on top of</b><b>that roof? What's my angle? What's the</b><b>best roof? You know,</b><b>I'm hunting and there's a calculated risk</b><b>to hunting, right? When</b><b>you set up a deer blind,</b><b>if you go hunting, you try to get a good</b><b>line of sight and put it in</b><b>a strategic spot. His tent,</b><b>there was, he hunted because none of this</b><b>was guaranteed. His</b><b>tent could have been lower.</b><b>Might not have had a line of all those</b><b>things. Right. So he truly</b><b>hunted him and he got him</b><b>and assassinated him and assassinated</b><b>him. So I'm, that bothers me</b><b>more because I can't help but</b><b>think what happened in this kid's life at</b><b>such a young age that led</b><b>him to believe I'm going to go</b><b>kill somebody that I don't know. I've</b><b>never met. And I've seen</b><b>cut up snippets of that's how,</b><b>what happened? What's the, what's the</b><b>trigger there from all, for all</b><b>indications, he came from,</b><b>you know, a nuclear family that seemed to</b><b>care about him. He</b><b>admitted to killing this guy,</b><b>you know, to Charlie to his dad. So they</b><b>were close enough for him</b><b>to, to, to, to communicate</b><b>that too. So what happened? Nobody knows</b><b>quite yet. And maybe we will. I, I'm</b><b>gonna, if I had to bet</b><b>money right now, I'm gonna, I'm gonna</b><b>blame the pharmaceuticals</b><b>in, in the drugs he was taking</b><b>that were probably prescribed to him. And</b><b>then you couple that with a</b><b>lot of the stuff we've been</b><b>talking about, a social media influence.</b><b>So I'm gonna, I'm gonna wager that it's</b><b>pharmaceutical driven. It usually always</b><b>is. But that's, that's</b><b>what bothers me. People's</b><b>reaction, because think about it this</b><b>way. A reaction is an, is</b><b>an emotional event that's</b><b>driven by some cause or it's an emotional</b><b>response to an event. And</b><b>words, sticks and stones may break my</b><b>bones, right? But words</b><b>won't hurt me, whatever it is.</b><b>I might've jumbled that, but you're, if</b><b>you're laughing because</b><b>somebody died, what if it's</b><b>nervous laughter? I don't, I'm not</b><b>defending it. You know what</b><b>I'm saying? But it's, it's an</b><b>uncalculated thing. I don't know. See,</b><b>and I have a totally</b><b>different opinion on that because</b><b>I think there's actually a Charlie Kurt,</b><b>Kurt quote that said, you</b><b>can tell a lot about someone</b><b>by how they react when a person dies.</b><b>Yeah. I think, I think you</b><b>can have all kinds of reactions</b><b>and, but then I think to take the next</b><b>step and to thoughtfully make a video,</b><b>watch the video back</b><b>and think, yeah, that's right. And then</b><b>like put it up or a meme</b><b>or whatever to actually type</b><b>something out and hit publish the intent</b><b>behind that in my mind is</b><b>evil, but I think it comes</b><b>from mental illness. So I, I, I don't</b><b>think people that respond that</b><b>way are in the right state of</b><b>mind. I really agree with that. That's</b><b>what I'm saying though. That</b><b>to me is the emotional side.</b><b>And they, they have this emotional void</b><b>or, or a disconnect, a</b><b>disconnect, a coping disconnect</b><b>to think that, Oh, I'm going to go and</b><b>throw gas on this fire to</b><b>make it bigger and somehow get</b><b>attention. Well, because in so many ways</b><b>it's, it's absolutely cruel, right? I</b><b>don't know if you've</b><b>seen a lot of what I've seen, but some of</b><b>it is just so blatantly</b><b>cruel and heartless. And it</b><b>doesn't matter who you'd be talking</b><b>about. It's, it goes so deep</b><b>that they're just projecting</b><b>the ugliness that's inside of them. And</b><b>that's so true. And in a</b><b>lot of instances when people,</b><b>whatever people are putting out there,</b><b>it's really, they're</b><b>telling you who they are.</b><b>And so they are exposing themselves. And</b><b>I believe in free</b><b>speech. Obviously they can put</b><b>out whatever they want and say whatever</b><b>they want. I don't think they should</b><b>listen. That was what,</b><b>what Charlie Kirk was all about. So, but</b><b>I think it's unfortunate and</b><b>it's sad when you see that.</b><b>And at first it did make me angry because</b><b>I thought it was just</b><b>being cruel for cruel's sake.</b><b>And I don't like that at all. There's</b><b>just so much negativity</b><b>in the world. Why are we,</b><b>why are we going that low? But then I</b><b>realized, you know, these are</b><b>just people that are mentally</b><b>ill and are probably chronically online</b><b>and have lost perspective of life in</b><b>general. And it really</b><b>doesn't have anything to do with any of</b><b>us. It's their own thing.</b><b>And you got to put it in</b><b>perspective. And see, I had an emotional</b><b>reaction at first and that</b><b>was my own, but I didn't go</b><b>online and express it or I just had my</b><b>own process. Yeah. It's been a</b><b>processing. It's very</b><b>shocking. When you, I go to anger first.</b><b>I did not watch the video</b><b>of Charlie. Yeah. I know</b><b>a huge majority of people, including our</b><b>children did. Um, now it's really</b><b>honestly, that part,</b><b>that pisses me off. Now two of our kids</b><b>are in their 20, we have</b><b>a 28 and a 24 year old,</b><b>but our 15 year old saw it. Um, that</b><b>generation is very</b><b>desensitized to that type of stuff that</b><b>have kids younger than our 15 year old</b><b>who saw it. And now they</b><b>have to talk about it. And you</b><b>know, let me, let's be real. Us having to</b><b>talk about sensitive</b><b>topics with our kids shouldn't</b><b>piss us off, but it's one that we don't</b><b>want to have to have</b><b>because of something so stupid.</b><b>And it's so graphic. That's what I mean.</b><b>Well, not even that it's</b><b>just so unacceptable to go</b><b>and hunt another human being and kill</b><b>them for some ideological belief. So</b><b>you're what you said</b><b>about pharmaceuticals. And I think we're</b><b>going to cover this with</b><b>the school shooting to the</b><b>school shootings. Um, I would wager you</b><b>could be right there.</b><b>Maybe, um, combined with the</b><b>propaganda that's put online to feed the</b><b>minds, to create the empathy, to make</b><b>everyone vulnerable,</b><b>to manipulate that vulnerability and to</b><b>use them as a tool and to</b><b>create their little soldiers.</b><b>Right. Um, so I do think that the take,</b><b>taking the quotes out of context</b><b>is a huge part of dehumanizing him and</b><b>the whole racist, fascist, that whole</b><b>tired, tired argument</b><b>magga. Yeah. It's like after a while it's</b><b>like, it's lost its</b><b>luster. Yeah. It doesn't have an</b><b>effect anymore because it's just been so</b><b>overused that apparently it</b><b>does well on certain people,</b><b>but like you call someone racist,</b><b>fascist, magga, all this</b><b>stuff over and over again.</b><b>It's like, people start to ignore that or</b><b>blow it off because</b><b>you've used it for everything.</b><b>You dropped an apple. All your racist,</b><b>you know, like it's</b><b>used for everything. Um,</b><b>one of the areas that was being put</b><b>around is that he hates gay</b><b>people. He hates homosexual</b><b>people. So I'm going to read you a back</b><b>and forth he had with a</b><b>young man who from his own</b><b>admission, the young man is a</b><b>conservative Christian and</b><b>they had a back and forth.</b><b>So a conservative Christian, young man,</b><b>gay man. No, no, just a conservative</b><b>Christian white man.</b><b>Him and Charlie had a back and forth. So</b><b>Charlie said, this is in the</b><b>middle of the conversation.</b><b>Charlie says, so I'm going to ask a very</b><b>respectful question as</b><b>respectfully as I can.</b><b>What does what they do in their private</b><b>life concern you so much</b><b>that you have to go up in</b><b>front of a crowd and, and then the young</b><b>man, inner, inner raps him</b><b>and says, it is against God.</b><b>That is why we're talking about</b><b>homosexuality. Are you a</b><b>Christian or not? Charlie says,</b><b>do we live in a theocracy? Yes or no. No.</b><b>That's a, do we live in a</b><b>theocracy? And then the young man</b><b>inner, interrupts again and says, you</b><b>said you're a Christian.</b><b>Charlie says, I am a Christian. And</b><b>you know what? And guess what? I will say</b><b>this part of being a</b><b>Christian is appropriately</b><b>interpreting what the theological says</b><b>for the individual, but</b><b>also means to be long suffering</b><b>and patient and loving and kind. Jesus</b><b>Christ talked to all</b><b>people. Jesus Christ went and did</b><b>his ministry through Judea and Samaria</b><b>and he had dinner with tax</b><b>collectors and he had dinner with</b><b>prostitutes and he did his ministry in</b><b>every part of the</b><b>Mediterranean. What it means to be</b><b>a Christian, my friend, is to be</b><b>open-minded, but firm in your beliefs. So</b><b>you can have that belief.</b><b>But if you say there's something</b><b>inherently wrong with</b><b>communicating or associating,</b><b>just because they make different personal</b><b>decisions than you,</b><b>then you, sir, are not a</b><b>conservative. And that is how Charlie</b><b>felt about homosexuality.</b><b>But that's not what's been fed.</b><b>And that's the dangerous part of this.</b><b>That's the dangerous</b><b>part of this, right? Is that</b><b>it's lies. It's lies that have been fed,</b><b>but no one's going</b><b>and fact-checking this.</b><b>They're believing and that's part of that</b><b>being vulnerable and easily</b><b>manipulated because they're</b><b>running on high emotions and maybe</b><b>they're on some pharmaceuticals. I don't</b><b>know. So what's your</b><b>theory? I don't know if it's a theory as</b><b>much as it's an observation</b><b>and something that, again,</b><b>I just can't help but think of how did</b><b>this 22 year old white kid</b><b>from a family go out and decide</b><b>to go hunting humans? And because I was</b><b>once a 22 year old white</b><b>kid from a family and I never</b><b>decided to go hunt humans. And we see</b><b>this, right? There's a profile. It's</b><b>white kids, white kids now.</b><b>Historically, the mass shooters have been</b><b>white men. And then now</b><b>we're seeing white kids and kids</b><b>in their twenties. And there's been, so</b><b>I'm thinking why, what's</b><b>going on here? And I think</b><b>back to when I was that age and I grew up</b><b>in a, with a nuclear family</b><b>we've talked about, I don't</b><b>really have huge issues. Maybe, you know,</b><b>maybe I do and I don't</b><b>know about them, but you know,</b><b>when I hit, I was in, when I got out of,</b><b>you know, you get into high</b><b>school, you know, you're, go to</b><b>school and you get into high school and</b><b>high school starts to</b><b>open your mind a little bit,</b><b>right? And then you survive high school</b><b>and then you get into</b><b>college and then college is, is a</b><b>time where it's expand your mind, right?</b><b>You're away from your</b><b>parents and, and it's time to</b><b>figure out who you are. You're in the</b><b>world now operating on</b><b>your own. You know how to,</b><b>you got to figure out how to do your own</b><b>laundry or pay someone to do</b><b>it, right? How to cook your</b><b>own food or pay someone to go do it type</b><b>of thing. And so you're out there</b><b>figuring out the world.</b><b>And I think back to for me, I grew up</b><b>very athletically minded,</b><b>playing sports and had a</b><b>lot of attention on me that way. And it</b><b>was the very much, you had</b><b>to kind of sort of dress a</b><b>certain way. You had to have shorter</b><b>hair, be conservative type</b><b>of thing is where I grew up,</b><b>right? And, and I, when I got to college,</b><b>I grew my hair up doing it again, right?</b><b>Grew my hair out, found the grateful</b><b>dead, found music. And, and I think,</b><b>I think there's a void for 22 year old</b><b>kids to have some peaceful,</b><b>non-violent outlet nowadays.</b><b>There, there are, for if you're</b><b>conservative, Charlie represented</b><b>something that was non-violent</b><b>and it was conservative. And he talked</b><b>about getting married</b><b>and having a family. And,</b><b>and he had opinions, right? He, he had</b><b>strong opinions. He's very</b><b>faith-based. That would not</b><b>have worked for me then. It doesn't work</b><b>for me now. I think Charlie's a</b><b>remarkable guy. I do not</b><b>identify with his faith-based stuff, but</b><b>I also, I'm curious. It</b><b>worked for him, works for a lot</b><b>of people. Just not my cup of tea. And</b><b>maybe it will be someday,</b><b>but I'm a non-violent person.</b><b>I'm an extremely peaceful person. But I</b><b>think for kids in their</b><b>twenties, college age kids,</b><b>you either kind of go the route of</b><b>Charlie or you go the</b><b>route of this kind of this left</b><b>interpretation, the other, the</b><b>counterbalance to Charlie, which is very</b><b>different. And I don't</b><b>know how much is in the middle. There</b><b>might be something in the</b><b>middle, but what I think,</b><b>here, my theory, long story short is I</b><b>don't think there's a</b><b>non-violent alternative to</b><b>a turning point on the left. I think it's</b><b>all very violent. I think it's very</b><b>confrontational. I think</b><b>it's, you know, we got to get out in the</b><b>street and get in people's</b><b>faces and be loud and scream</b><b>at people. No, you don't. No, there's</b><b>another alternative. And,</b><b>and it, and it can just be,</b><b>accept people for who they are and not</b><b>try to change them. You</b><b>don't have to go change the world</b><b>or, or convince people of, of your</b><b>beliefs. But I think back to</b><b>when I was that age, I tried.</b><b>I got into environmentalism, very much</b><b>into environmentalism.</b><b>I got into thinking that</b><b>everybody was racist. I did get into</b><b>thinking all these oppressive</b><b>thoughts, right? And part of</b><b>that's because it's college and it's also</b><b>this new way of thinking and</b><b>colleges, we went to a very</b><b>liberal liberal arts college. So that was</b><b>fine there. For me, I</b><b>very much got into the</b><b>Grateful Dead and that type of music</b><b>scene. And if you think</b><b>about it, the sixties were</b><b>strife with political chaos, right?</b><b>Vietnam war, there were the, I can't even</b><b>remember the people's</b><b>names, the key things or whatever at the,</b><b>the people were blowing</b><b>up government buildings.</b><b>I remember moving to Oregon, I think</b><b>earth first had just</b><b>blown up some like timber</b><b>trucks and stuff. This is the late</b><b>nineties or late eighties, early</b><b>nineties. There was shit</b><b>going on, but you go to a dead show and</b><b>it's like, okay, whatever you're, you</b><b>know, it's all about</b><b>the music. And even back then Crosby</b><b>stills in Nashville, Neil Young, uh,</b><b>those guys were all,</b><b>it was very somewhat activists, but they</b><b>were still about peace and getting along.</b><b>Think about it. There's no country, Joe</b><b>McDonald. Remember that's a</b><b>name, right? Remember country,</b><b>Joe one, two, three, four, what are we</b><b>fighting for? I don't give</b><b>a damn, you know, that whole</b><b>song there. That's not happening today</b><b>that I'm aware of. Maybe it is. And</b><b>we're, I just don't know,</b><b>but there's no one espousing peace and</b><b>getting along. There's no</b><b>John Lennon, Lennon singing.</b><b>All we're saying is give peace, peace of</b><b>chance, right? That that's</b><b>an Anthem. And there's no one</b><b>doing that today on the left, on the</b><b>right. I don't think</b><b>Charlie, Charlie was not a pro war</b><b>activist. I don't believe he was saying</b><b>we need to go to war.</b><b>We need to be fighting</b><b>quite the opposite. I think he was more,</b><b>he was a conservative.</b><b>I also think he was more</b><b>of a libertarian, which is something I</b><b>can identify more with on that</b><b>front. But on the left, it's,</b><b>it's very, it's, it's very aggressive.</b><b>And I think that's part of</b><b>what's happening is there,</b><b>there, these kids are trying to figure it</b><b>out. I just, again, I put</b><b>myself back to then there was</b><b>an outlet. There was the Grateful Dead.</b><b>There was be weird, be in</b><b>type of thing. It's okay.</b><b>Wave your freak flag, right? That was</b><b>sort of an Anthem. Wave</b><b>your freak flag. It's cool.</b><b>It wasn't wave your freak flag and make</b><b>sure that everybody saw your</b><b>freak flag and that if they</b><b>weren't as weird as you, or as freaky as</b><b>you, you need to get in their</b><b>face and tell them that they</b><b>needed to be. And that's what I think has</b><b>happened is we've lost that</b><b>it's fine. If you want blue</b><b>hair, nose rings, earrings, and you want</b><b>to tattoo your whole body.</b><b>I'm telling you as a Gen Xer,</b><b>you're cool. We are good. You're good.</b><b>Truly are right. That's</b><b>acceptable today. And it's awesome.</b><b>It's amazing to think that all these, I</b><b>don't have any tattoos. And</b><b>I don't care that people do.</b><b>I think it's cool. It's just not for me.</b><b>Maybe I'm chicken shit just</b><b>to not get one, but I just</b><b>don't have something. The only thing I</b><b>would ever get would be a</b><b>peace sign on my body. But</b><b>I don't have multiple earrings. I don't</b><b>have a nose ring, but you</b><b>know, so all that shit is okay.</b><b>But you don't have to do it and then get</b><b>in people's faces and</b><b>make them accept it.</b><b>Yeah. Does that all make sense? It does.</b><b>I think that there's, I'm</b><b>obviously, I'm obviously fairly</b><b>passionate about it. Right. Yeah. No, I</b><b>think it's interesting that I</b><b>feel like there's almost this</b><b>made up paranoia that's been fed to young</b><b>adults and kids, kids that</b><b>everyone has an issue with them</b><b>or that they have something they need to</b><b>fight against. I think</b><b>that's real. I remember being</b><b>the kid and thinking we need to fight for</b><b>the environment that I</b><b>remember that book, 32 ways</b><b>to save the environment. And one of them</b><b>was like, turn the water</b><b>off while you're shaving.</b><b>And if you don't turn the water off while</b><b>you're shaving, we're</b><b>going to run out of water.</b><b>Yeah. No, no, no. I understand that, that</b><b>natural rebellious</b><b>spirit. I get that. But I,</b><b>to your point, I feel like now the</b><b>younger generation in a</b><b>certain group has been fed</b><b>to do like what you said, that it needs</b><b>to be shoved down</b><b>people's throats instead of just</b><b>doing your thing, flying your freak flag.</b><b>What is it? Think globally, act locally,</b><b>work for whatever you believe in, put in</b><b>the work, volunteer, try to</b><b>make change, all those things.</b><b>But instead there is the, it seems like</b><b>there's this aggression just</b><b>to anyone who is, if you're</b><b>not like them, you're the opposition.</b><b>Yeah. And, but then they</b><b>need to act on it or treat you a</b><b>certain way or do something like, like, I</b><b>don't know, it is</b><b>interesting though. There, and there</b><b>isn't a outlet. There's not an outlet.</b><b>Like you said, there isn't a peaceful</b><b>outlet. It's all very</b><b>aggressive. And I can respect the, you</b><b>know, the hustle of wanting to</b><b>change the world. And I think</b><b>there's a lot of wonderful things that</b><b>come from every new</b><b>generation. And, you know, if it, I, I</b><b>actually think that there's a lot of</b><b>things that the younger people who had</b><b>issues with Charlie Kirk,</b><b>I think if they really would have talked</b><b>with him, they would have</b><b>found they have a lot more common</b><b>ground. But I think that is the case. And</b><b>that's why we go back to my</b><b>other theory on the media.</b><b>His support was broad based. When I saw</b><b>the video where a girl came up, she had</b><b>like a nose ring and</b><b>almost like the bull ring blue hair. And,</b><b>and she was trying to define</b><b>to define to him what it meant</b><b>to be queer. And he's like, you saw that</b><b>one. Very respectful. And she</b><b>didn't know how to articulate</b><b>it. And, but I think for her, she's</b><b>seeking something out.</b><b>She went and talked to him,</b><b>which took a lot of courage and a lot of</b><b>curiosity. And so there was</b><b>something about him that was</b><b>disarming for someone like her. They're</b><b>obviously very different. She</b><b>is a unique person, right? And,</b><b>and probably very sensitive and very, you</b><b>know, insecure and has wild</b><b>thoughts. And, and he made</b><b>it okay to talk to her. So his appeal was</b><b>broad based. And that was</b><b>the real threat is that he</b><b>connected with more than just, you know,</b><b>short haired, fratty</b><b>looking conservative kids. He had</b><b>appeal from the broad base. And even if</b><b>he didn't, because I think some of the</b><b>kids that went up to</b><b>talk to him were already prepared at</b><b>adversarial with him. You're a fascism.</b><b>Right. Right. But then</b><b>I think through the conversation,</b><b>sometimes I saw some stuff</b><b>where by the end they were like,</b><b>Oh, okay. You know, I, you know, or, and</b><b>some would get mad and</b><b>call him names or whatever and</b><b>stomp off, but some were like, okay,</b><b>yeah. Okay. I can respect that. I can see</b><b>that. Like he went on a,</b><b>um, a show that had only, only fans,</b><b>girls or girls that were</b><b>involved with pornography.</b><b>And he just, he was just talked to them,</b><b>you know, he was just like</b><b>talking about how, you know,</b><b>I hope that you can find to use your</b><b>talents in other ways. And, you know,</b><b>I'll pray. He came in,</b><b>I'll pray for you because I think you</b><b>have so much more to offer</b><b>in the world than this. And</b><b>he was so respectful. And even at the</b><b>end, one of the girls said,</b><b>you're the most respectful</b><b>one who's ever been, you've been the most</b><b>respectful than</b><b>anyone. So like, I know you</b><b>talked about his faith and something, if</b><b>you listen to our podcast regularly,</b><b>we've acknowledged this</b><b>before as I am have a very strong faith</b><b>and, um, Catholic and have a strong</b><b>belief in God and Jesus</b><b>Christ. And he is my savior and all that.</b><b>And Brian does not. And,</b><b>but we work, we work, right?</b><b>That makes me uncomfortable.</b><b>I'd say Brian is, I like to say Brian is</b><b>agnostic, not an atheist,</b><b>but, um, I do have a strong face.</b><b>So when it comes to where Charlie Kirk's</b><b>coming from, I can see</b><b>that perspective. Um, and I do</b><b>think he approached, if I were to guess,</b><b>he approached every</b><b>single thing he did from his</b><b>faith. And he believed he had said this,</b><b>that every person is in</b><b>the form of God and deserves</b><b>all the rights and all those things,</b><b>right? He respected everyone.</b><b>So because he was coming from</b><b>it from that place, what resulted was</b><b>what you were talking about where he</b><b>appealed to the masses.</b><b>Even if they were coming in to be</b><b>adversarial, they still were coming in.</b><b>He was still triggering</b><b>conversation. And I do give the kids that</b><b>would go up to talk to him,</b><b>I give them so much credit</b><b>because the courage it must have taken to</b><b>eat well. And for some,</b><b>they may be so blind with rage</b><b>that they don't care, but, um, I still</b><b>give them props for going up</b><b>and talking to him because that</b><b>man was smart. He was smart and quick and</b><b>knew what he was doing. So</b><b>I think it's awesome. Even</b><b>if he totally disagreed with him, I think</b><b>it's awesome. They went</b><b>up and talked to him. Yeah.</b><b>That's what we needed. Whether you're</b><b>from the left, the</b><b>right, the center, whatever</b><b>that conversation it's when, and I think</b><b>there's another quote he said, it's when</b><b>you stop talking that violence results</b><b>and, and, and, and, and so</b><b>what will be interesting in all</b><b>of this, but well, before I go on, I</b><b>think, um, your, your point about that</b><b>there isn't an outlet</b><b>for we'll call it the left side, right?</b><b>Okay. So Charlie, um, kids</b><b>are on the more conservative</b><b>side identified with him and lean towards</b><b>him or kids that maybe</b><b>were on the left or center and</b><b>they talked to him and he persuaded them.</b><b>And then they started</b><b>leaning towards him. Right.</b><b>And then you have maybe just this liberal</b><b>group that maybe could go</b><b>either way. And then you have</b><b>this far left, which is more radicalized.</b><b>They're out of fairness.</b><b>There's a far right. Oh,</b><b>absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. 100%.</b><b>There's a far right with the</b><b>younger groups, like on the</b><b>campuses. I have yet, I haven't seen a</b><b>far right. I'm not saying</b><b>it's not there. I've seen a</b><b>conservative for sure. I haven't seen the</b><b>far right, um,</b><b>represented, but they could be there</b><b>just may not be as obvious. Cause when I</b><b>think of far right, to be</b><b>honest with you, I think of,</b><b>um, like, uh, race, really racist, like</b><b>skinheads, that could be our</b><b>generation and, and being from</b><b>the West coast. I mean, there are though,</b><b>like I've seen some, like</b><b>I don't, it was a headline.</b><b>So take it with a grain of salt. It was</b><b>like a headline around</b><b>people saying you better treat,</b><b>you better celebrate Charlie's death,</b><b>right? Or there's going to</b><b>be problems, something to that</b><b>effect. And it's like, you know, I mean,</b><b>there's absolutely a far</b><b>right in this country. They're</b><b>absolutely, they're fucking crazy. Right.</b><b>They're total racist and</b><b>bigots. Yes. They hate black</b><b>people. They hate Jewish people. They</b><b>hate anybody. Right.</b><b>Absolutely. Absolutely.</b><b>All I'm saying on the college campuses, I</b><b>think the far left kids</b><b>are, well, they're very</b><b>comfortable, right? That's kind of their</b><b>Mecca. It's their home. So</b><b>they're easily identifiable</b><b>usually. And they're more outspoken. So</b><b>they will, like we talked before, they</b><b>tell you what's going</b><b>on. They, whether you want to know or</b><b>not, you know, they're</b><b>going to, uh, so, um, you know,</b><b>confront you or scream at you or</b><b>whatever. Like</b><b>they're not quiet about it.</b><b>I don't see skinheads walk around</b><b>campuses. It doesn't mean</b><b>that some of these conservative</b><b>kids are racist. Yeah. So, so for the</b><b>sake of my own</b><b>experience and what I've seen,</b><b>I can tell you that I've seen like a far</b><b>left, I've seen a left C,</b><b>but even like, like, okay,</b><b>so I view the shooter as a radicalized</b><b>far left, but I don't view</b><b>these kids that go up and talk</b><b>to Charlie that way. They're just on the</b><b>left. They're liberal. I</b><b>don't see them as radicalized,</b><b>you know, where they're going to get a</b><b>gun and go shoot someone. And I think</b><b>that's the difference</b><b>there too is like, there's liberal left</b><b>young adults and teenagers</b><b>and people, obviously we're</b><b>talking about college days right now.</b><b>Then there's radicalized far left, but I,</b><b>I don't, I, you know,</b><b>it's funny. Yes. You're trying to split</b><b>hairs here. I think this kid's mentally</b><b>ill. I don't know if</b><b>it's almost an insult to the far left</b><b>possibly. And I'm not here</b><b>to defend them by any means or</b><b>the far right, or I'm not defending</b><b>anybody. This kid, I think he took, it</b><b>was given he's been on</b><b>prescription drugs or something at some</b><b>point in his life, fucked up</b><b>his brain chemistry. And he</b><b>went out and hunted a human for things he</b><b>thought were real that he</b><b>was imagining. And the reason</b><b>I say it that way is because the kid who</b><b>shot up those kids at the</b><b>Catholic school in Minnesota,</b><b>total fucking whack job, the kid down</b><b>here in Parkland years and</b><b>years ago, right? That kid</b><b>was a total whack job. So these aren't</b><b>radicalized people. I think that's almost</b><b>too simple. They're,</b><b>they're crazy. And they've been, their</b><b>brain chemistry has been</b><b>altered through something</b><b>within their life, whether it's</b><b>pharmaceuticals or the food, most likely</b><b>pharmaceuticals, right?</b><b>I'm not going down the RFK route here,</b><b>but there's, they've</b><b>been more than radicalized.</b><b>They've been, I don't know what the right</b><b>word would be there, but they're insane.</b><b>To, to they're, they're not connecting</b><b>the dots around what's</b><b>reasonable versus what's not</b><b>what's permanent. What's verse verse</b><b>what's temporary, right?</b><b>They don't, there's no,</b><b>there's just a cerebral lapse of</b><b>connectivity that's letting</b><b>these people think this is the</b><b>right course of action. Well, and those,</b><b>and they're ripe for</b><b>manipulation for propaganda</b><b>and all that stuff. Yeah. So you can have</b><b>one type of left, um,</b><b>young adult that just</b><b>believes one way, you know, maybe we're,</b><b>we're just, I'm so like,</b><b>um, what's the word? You know,</b><b>speculating. Yeah. But also, you know,</b><b>like, um, like, say pink</b><b>hair, piercings, all that,</b><b>they don't all have that, right? We're</b><b>just saying that. Yeah.</b><b>So, but let's say, and they,</b><b>and they believe one way and then they go</b><b>on with their life, right?</b><b>They just live the normal life.</b><b>And then you have, what I'm saying is you</b><b>have the ones that are</b><b>radicalized, but I would say</b><b>it more often than not, the ones that are</b><b>radicalized are like</b><b>what you're describing. They</b><b>have the mental illness. They probably</b><b>have been, um, influenced</b><b>with some sort of pharmaceutical</b><b>prescriptions in their lives that has</b><b>altered their brain</b><b>chemistry. That's the dangerous part,</b><b>right? And you could, and you could say</b><b>that might be on the</b><b>right too. What's interesting,</b><b>I'm not saying it's not, but what's</b><b>interesting is that, um,</b><b>what Charlie Kirk was talking about when</b><b>he would touch on all</b><b>these different topics</b><b>overall was positive. It was a positive</b><b>vision, right? And it</b><b>was strife with, with hope.</b><b>If, if, if, if you can listen to him with</b><b>an open mind and you</b><b>can rationalize his words,</b><b>you'll see that he was, uh, he was</b><b>open-minded. He did have a faith. He had</b><b>a strong opinion about</b><b>God. And in my younger days, I may have</b><b>discounted him once he</b><b>started saying God, I've matured,</b><b>I've evolved, right? I'm a, I'm an adult.</b><b>Um, but if you're 22 years old and</b><b>someone starts saying</b><b>God and you're, don't believe in that</b><b>stuff or whatever, then you stop</b><b>listening. And actually,</b><b>the one thing, um, one thing that this</b><b>kid was brought up in a</b><b>Mormon family. And it sounds like</b><b>he's probably no longer has that belief</b><b>system, right? So, you know,</b><b>in some ways if, and I'm not</b><b>blaming Mormons, but if you're brought up</b><b>in, in a, on, in a</b><b>construct, a religious construct,</b><b>and you start to move away from that</b><b>construct and then someone's</b><b>talking about it, you could</b><b>get enraged. And you see that with me,</b><b>right? I, I'm, uh, I shut down when I</b><b>hear certain keywords,</b><b>right? I, I start to move away a little</b><b>bit and I would say it, I'm</b><b>guilty of that with Charlie.</b><b>And being such a faith-based guy, it's</b><b>like, okay, that's cool. It's</b><b>not for my, not my cup of tea.</b><b>I don't, you know, it is what it is.</b><b>Don't dislike them,</b><b>whatever. Don't judge them. Um,</b><b>but you can start to shut down or again,</b><b>I'm a rational</b><b>person. I don't, it's like,</b><b>he's talking about God, I'm going to go</b><b>kill him, right? That's not</b><b>happening. Yeah. But for some</b><b>people, I think different constructs,</b><b>enraged people and take it really over</b><b>the top. It's a trigger.</b><b>It's a trigger. And again, that goes to</b><b>the mental illness.</b><b>What's interesting is that</b><b>I do think that this boy or this,</b><b>whatever young man came from a</b><b>conservative family,</b><b>I think the father is in law enforcement</b><b>and they are Mormon. So there's a</b><b>religious support system.</b><b>Correct. Um, but I think a lot of young</b><b>adults that end up so far</b><b>left, um, if you, you go,</b><b>some of them have come from conservative</b><b>families, right? And maybe</b><b>they've gone so far left in</b><b>rebellion to whatever had they been</b><b>taught in their family or whatever</b><b>structure they've been</b><b>raised in, or it, the left, the left</b><b>things they've learned are so different</b><b>than what they learned</b><b>growing up that there's just this break.</b><b>It's just a complete break. And there</b><b>isn't any middle ground.</b><b>Yeah. Because there is middle ground. I</b><b>think that's so much of what</b><b>our country is missing now.</b><b>There is middle ground. So many people</b><b>want to say you're on the</b><b>right or you're on the left</b><b>and they want to make everything,</b><b>everything political, everything they</b><b>want it. Everything's</b><b>a binary choice these days when the</b><b>world's everything's got a</b><b>touch of gray. Yes. Right.</b><b>Yeah. And it's just the middle ground and</b><b>what people don't realize</b><b>is Charlie was a moderate</b><b>and he was middle ground. He was a bridge</b><b>between the two sides.</b><b>Well, it's, you know,</b><b>and that's what people don't realize. And</b><b>that's, that's what makes</b><b>me sad because as a moderate</b><b>myself, you know, we, we don't make this</b><b>a political podcast because this is a</b><b>place for everyone and we</b><b>don't judge anyone based on their</b><b>political beliefs, their sexuality,</b><b>anything. Like we are,</b><b>we are open to everyone. And, but we</b><b>don't like to talk, like get</b><b>political political because</b><b>we want everyone to feel comfortable to</b><b>come on here and, and</b><b>not make a decision not to,</b><b>or not to listen to us because they think</b><b>we're leaning one way or</b><b>another. But I will say,</b><b>you know, I am a moderate, but, and I</b><b>view Charlie as a moderate</b><b>and see some listeners may say,</b><b>Oh, well then you're far right if you</b><b>like Charlie, but I have no</b><b>control over how someone's</b><b>going to interpret that. I just know me</b><b>and my heart, how I feel.</b><b>And, and when you listen to</b><b>what Charlie Kirk said, if you really</b><b>listened, it was very</b><b>open-minded. It was very accepting.</b><b>It was very loving. And it was coming</b><b>from a good place and it</b><b>was fairly moderate. Now,</b><b>yes, there were things that I didn't</b><b>align with completely, but</b><b>you're not going to agree with</b><b>everybody on everything. But he was that,</b><b>that bridge between the</b><b>two sides were, okay, hey,</b><b>can we meet in the middle and can we just</b><b>like have a conversation?</b><b>And to be killed over that</b><b>is it's an American tragedy. It's an</b><b>American. He's not the first.</b><b>I think I actually think it's a world</b><b>tragedy because he was</b><b>exercising his right to free,</b><b>openly speak free speech, right? And a</b><b>lot of countries don't have</b><b>that. Uh, most were one of</b><b>the few, even in Britain, I was listening</b><b>to something recently,</b><b>how some comedian just got</b><b>arrested at the airport. Five, uh,</b><b>British police officers arrested him. I</b><b>think when he got into</b><b>like Heathrow or something, he's a</b><b>comedian because he made</b><b>some jokes. Yeah. Words.</b><b>No, no, you can be arrested now for</b><b>putting things on Facebook, on social</b><b>media over in Britain.</b><b>Britain's gone crazy. Even here, I think</b><b>people coming into this</b><b>country, there's complaints of</b><b>people landing that get their phones</b><b>reviewed and are getting</b><b>maybe kicked out or sent back type</b><b>of thing. Was that tied to illegal</b><b>immigration? I think it's the, no, you</b><b>know what it is. I don't</b><b>totally disagree with this by the way,</b><b>which is crazy that I'm</b><b>don't totally disagree with it</b><b>because I do fundamentally, but I think</b><b>what it is, it's like, look,</b><b>we're, our cup is full right</b><b>now here in the U S a people talking shit</b><b>about the country and</b><b>trying to radicalize people.</b><b>So we're, we're going to put a stop to it</b><b>for now. Cause we're going</b><b>to deal with what we have.</b><b>Right. And that's sort of what this kid's</b><b>an indication of is</b><b>we're, we're killing each other</b><b>over words that why let more people in</b><b>that are, that are in that same boat,</b><b>which is really crazy.</b><b>I don't know how I feel about it, but</b><b>it's, it's fundamentally</b><b>wrong. But then you can also see</b><b>that. Yeah, that's a, it's a weird one.</b><b>Honestly, weird one. But what's</b><b>interesting is when, when</b><b>we're in finding is obviously when our</b><b>enemies are from outside of</b><b>our country are watching us</b><b>and that's the less unified we are, let's</b><b>face it, the more vulnerable we are too.</b><b>Yeah. But let's face it. Most of this is</b><b>probably from outside</b><b>influences. Anyways,</b><b>there'd be no greater victory for a lot</b><b>of the world to see</b><b>the U S implode. Yeah.</b><b>There are right. Yeah. A hundred percent.</b><b>We've allowed, we have</b><b>people in Congress who want to</b><b>see our country implode that have come</b><b>here from other places that are just</b><b>espoused hate and, and,</b><b>and red violent rhetoric, right? We all</b><b>know who they are. They're</b><b>pieces of shit. And it's,</b><b>but it's, it's something that you have to</b><b>deal with. And in a civil society,</b><b>you should be able to do it. And, and I</b><b>think those are words</b><b>it's voting, you know, it's,</b><b>it's all of that. It's not going out and</b><b>shooting some, no, no, not</b><b>at all. It is, it's voting.</b><b>It's conversation. We should all, we've</b><b>gotten to the point now where</b><b>we stopped talking</b><b>because if you say anything,</b><b>you're there's going to be some,</b><b>someone's going to get in</b><b>your face, scream at you,</b><b>yell at you, whatever. But I think what's</b><b>interesting with Charlie</b><b>Kirk being assassinated</b><b>is I think there's going to be a shift. I</b><b>do think it's a watershed</b><b>moment, a turning point.</b><b>I don't think people are going to be</b><b>scared anymore of</b><b>speaking their mind. And</b><b>I think it'll be interesting to see how</b><b>things are, start to</b><b>change a little bit in society.</b><b>You know, I don't know. I know you're not</b><b>sure, but I do think</b><b>there'll be a change.</b><b>I'll, I'll be slightly more convinced if</b><b>in two weeks he's</b><b>still being talked about</b><b>because the girl from Ukraine who got</b><b>stabbed, she'll probably</b><b>be out of the news soon. If</b><b>she's not already the kids that got</b><b>killed up at that</b><b>Catholic school in Minnesota,</b><b>they're probably, they're kind of out of</b><b>the news cycle. Those</b><b>democratic politicians up in</b><b>Minnesota that got killed by the cop</b><b>impersonator, right?</b><b>They're out of the news cycle.</b><b>No, I know. Yeah. But I think that he</b><b>represents, he has such, he</b><b>represents so much. So I don't</b><b>know. I don't know if I don't. I think</b><b>he'll still be in the conversation for the fucked up reason</b><b>I said earlier. And it's because he</b><b>represents a demographic</b><b>that the mainstream media</b><b>wants as their audience so they can still</b><b>advertising. And right now, I don't know,</b><b>Fox probably has them because Charlie's</b><b>one of their guys, but CNN</b><b>and MSNBC, I think even the</b><b>Atlantic, the Atlantic magazine, read</b><b>articles from them. Even</b><b>I think they're somewhat</b><b>moderated at the moment. What about</b><b>Drudge? Drudge? Drudge is,</b><b>they're so anti-Trump at this</b><b>point. And you know, it's sort of a</b><b>hodgepodge. Drudge is somewhat</b><b>irrelevant. You know,</b><b>how did they treat, have they been pretty</b><b>neutral about the assassination or?</b><b>I actually, let me say that I think</b><b>Drudge is somewhat more</b><b>fact there. It's a, it's a, it's a,</b><b>what's the right word? They put up posts</b><b>of from other people,</b><b>right? They're, they're, there's like a</b><b>vehicle, an aggregator,</b><b>there's, there's a news aggregator.</b><b>So there's Drudge himself or them as an</b><b>entity. They don't put up any stories.</b><b>They don't write it.</b><b>They don't have a staff. It's all just</b><b>put up links to different</b><b>things, right? Which is also</b><b>very manipulative in many ways, right?</b><b>Cause it's all about clicks</b><b>and Drudge is all about clicks.</b><b>I don't say that. Like I don't, it's just</b><b>a fact. I'm not, that's not</b><b>an opinion. It is all just pure</b><b>facts. And, and it's a model that, let me</b><b>go back a second. Cause</b><b>Drudge years and years ago was the</b><b>only news aggregator, right? So he had a</b><b>corner of the market and would put up</b><b>whatever probably was</b><b>more representative of his political</b><b>beliefs at the time. But now</b><b>it's just to get clicks because</b><b>now he's competing with Apple news, CNN,</b><b>or just Google, right?</b><b>Google search, duck, duck, go to</b><b>everybody, everybody's AI, whatever. So</b><b>there's no longer the</b><b>single game in town. So now it's</b><b>really just putting stuff out there</b><b>that'll drive clicks.</b><b>That's a more emotionally based.</b><b>Um, so long story short,</b><b>it's kind of all over the place.</b><b>Yeah. Cause they're, so I saw time put</b><b>something up that was</b><b>like, it said like enough.</b><b>And it was talking about ending</b><b>political, violent talk,</b><b>right? They, and so it wasn't,</b><b>it wasn't leaning either way. I would say</b><b>for time, it wasn't</b><b>leaning. I didn't read the article,</b><b>so I could be speaking. I know it's</b><b>disingenuous and that, but</b><b>then rolling stone, of course.</b><b>Um, so well they talked</b><b>about how people are getting, um,</b><b>outed and for what, how they reacted</b><b>rolling stone out of all</b><b>this, that's what they decided.</b><b>No, that's a warning. Hey</b><b>guys, temper it down temporarily.</b><b>They were anti, they were focused more on</b><b>how people who</b><b>celebrated Charlie Kirk's death</b><b>are getting exposed and they were, they</b><b>were presenting that as how</b><b>that's not right, not fair.</b><b>Yeah. And that's a whole nother topic is</b><b>cause we've talked about</b><b>this. Um, and I know you,</b><b>I think you and I have a little bit</b><b>different views on this. So</b><b>I think it's fine to expose</b><b>the people who are celebrating the death</b><b>of someone else in a</b><b>gleeful sick way. Um,</b><b>and I, but I think they have their</b><b>freedom of speech to say</b><b>what they said, but I think it's</b><b>okay to expose them and then let their</b><b>employer decide what they</b><b>want to do with it. And some</b><b>employers may stand by them and some</b><b>employers may not, but I, but again,</b><b>initially I just am so</b><b>disgusted by it, but then again, they're</b><b>mentally ill. But then</b><b>again, I don't want to be like,</b><b>if these are the people there are, you're</b><b>interacting with when</b><b>you're out and about in</b><b>society, it's like, it's a tough one,</b><b>right? Cause I don't</b><b>know if it's tough. I mean,</b><b>what you're describing is the mob rules.</b><b>And I don't know if</b><b>the mob shouldn't rule,</b><b>meaning the mob of people, right? Not</b><b>the, not the historical Tony Soprano mob,</b><b>but the mob rules, right? So if it's part</b><b>of civil society is that we</b><b>as civilians and participants</b><b>in this game of life, that's where the</b><b>rules should be set. And</b><b>that's probably the fundamental</b><b>problem I have with a lot of stuff is I</b><b>don't think it should be</b><b>regulated at a federal level.</b><b>And what I mean by that is I don't, you</b><b>know, I'm a simple</b><b>government guy defense,</b><b>you know, enforcement, those types of</b><b>things, safety infrastructure,</b><b>you know, that kind of stuff.</b><b>We shouldn't be legislating anything</b><b>social and we are right. That's the</b><b>problem. And that's why</b><b>this temperature has risen so much. It</b><b>should come down to people with the,</b><b>there should be basic</b><b>constructs. There should be roads we all</b><b>drive on. There should be</b><b>stop signs, green lights,</b><b>red lights, on-ramps, off-ramps, all that</b><b>shit, right? We shouldn't be</b><b>able to go to sleep knowing</b><b>that some foreign government's not going</b><b>to attack us. That's the</b><b>role of the government.</b><b>When we have a fire in your kitchen, you</b><b>should be able to call the fire</b><b>department and it should</b><b>be, they should come in, right? There's</b><b>schools, all that. But</b><b>what's happening is this is the</b><b>problem. The fundamental problem is</b><b>people are looking for</b><b>government to decide what civil</b><b>society versus what isn't. So long story</b><b>short, if you, if</b><b>someone puts something up</b><b>that is stupid, then it's, they're</b><b>probably fair game with</b><b>words, but not violence.</b><b>No, of course not. Yeah, no, absolutely.</b><b>It's been very</b><b>interesting because a lot of people</b><b>have lost their jobs, but as far as you</b><b>saying the federal</b><b>government, but then civil rights,</b><b>I mean, those, that was a</b><b>turning point in the city.</b><b>Yeah, but that was correcting a wrong. We</b><b>had very discriminatory</b><b>policies. No, we should fix</b><b>things. Everybody should be treated</b><b>equal. You cannot</b><b>discriminate against people because of</b><b>the color of their skin, their sexual</b><b>orientation, quite frankly,</b><b>even how they look. Who gives a</b><b>shit? They're people. So the civil rights</b><b>was the absolute right</b><b>thing to do. You can't tell</b><b>black people. You can't go to school with</b><b>white people. Fuck you. Who</b><b>are you to make that call?</b><b>Right? Yeah. So that's crazy. But now</b><b>we've gone to this completely opposite</b><b>side of the spectrum.</b><b>Right. It's almost like gay marriage</b><b>versus traditional</b><b>marriage. Why can't a two men get</b><b>married or two women get married? Right.</b><b>That's crazy. And here,</b><b>that's the interesting thing.</b><b>As far as like, let's take it back to</b><b>Charlie Kirk. He was the</b><b>first to say, that's not my</b><b>beliefs. I believe a traditional marriage</b><b>is between a man and a</b><b>woman. But what you're,</b><b>how you're living your life, I'm not</b><b>going to, I'm going to still talk to you</b><b>and I can be friends</b><b>with you or whatever. That doesn't bother</b><b>me. That's your choice. Well, what I</b><b>think is interesting,</b><b>which is how, although I don't care if</b><b>it's man and woman, woman,</b><b>woman, man, man. But if I did</b><b>care if it was just man and woman, I</b><b>would feel like him, like this is how I</b><b>believe, but I still</b><b>think you deserve respect and everything</b><b>else. And I'm not going to</b><b>treat you any different. I just</b><b>don't believe in that. Even though that's</b><b>not how I believe it. I'm</b><b>saying if I, so that's where he</b><b>was coming from. Like, what's the deal? I</b><b>think you said it earlier</b><b>and I didn't know he had this</b><b>thought that it was his view on this, but</b><b>he, his perspective that we</b><b>don't live in a theocracy.</b><b>We live in a democracy. That's a huge</b><b>difference. If you live in</b><b>a theocracy, guaranteed it's</b><b>oppressive because everyone's got to</b><b>think the same, look the same, act the</b><b>same, dress the same.</b><b>That's not what we all signed up for.</b><b>That's what we left.</b><b>Yes. And he wasn't trying to convince</b><b>anyone that the world</b><b>should be like that.</b><b>But I think, again, to go back, he was</b><b>trying to be the antithesis</b><b>to what existed on college</b><b>campuses. He was trying to be another</b><b>option because there are</b><b>kids on college campuses</b><b>that do are conservative or that aren't</b><b>liberal. Maybe they're</b><b>middle, right? Or they're far right,</b><b>but they didn't have a place and they</b><b>still were, they deserved a place too.</b><b>They just, and they,</b><b>I don't think they felt comfortable</b><b>anymore because so many</b><b>professors were liberal and I</b><b>think you would get downgraded on your</b><b>papers and stuff if they</b><b>found out. So it was almost like</b><b>they were targets. Well, you know, and so</b><b>I think Charlie also gave</b><b>them a place to come to feel</b><b>comfortable and accepted and they have</b><b>just as much right to feel</b><b>accepted and comfortable just</b><b>because they're conservative does not</b><b>mean they're racist or fascist. And</b><b>that's the problem. They're</b><b>people too. They just may feel</b><b>differently about certain</b><b>subjects, topics or whatever,</b><b>but they're not going out and trying to</b><b>hurt anybody. Not his supporters per se.</b><b>There probably were, right? There's</b><b>probably people who took Charlie's words</b><b>the wrong way to the</b><b>conservative side. We haven't talked</b><b>about it. And if someone's made it this</b><b>far and not thinking</b><b>we're total conservative, you know,</b><b>whatever, whatever. But</b><b>there's people within Charlie's</b><b>orbit that would go to his things that</b><b>would take it to the</b><b>another extreme to the right.</b><b>There has to be, it's</b><b>just a law of averages.</b><b>I think you should be able to talk about</b><b>the, that kind of pisses me</b><b>off that you just did that.</b><b>I think you should be able to talk about</b><b>the conservative group</b><b>of young adults without</b><b>what about ism. I don't give a shit. We</b><b>already established</b><b>there's far right and there's far</b><b>left. And then we talk all nicely about</b><b>the liberal young adults</b><b>without saying, oh, but now there's</b><b>these young conservatives deserve just as</b><b>much of a space to feel</b><b>comfortable and accepted</b><b>as young liberals. And that's what's been</b><b>lost. And that's what he gave. He gave</b><b>them a place to come</b><b>and feel accepted and for who they are.</b><b>And then he gave liberal young liberal</b><b>people place to come</b><b>to use their voice, to speak their mind</b><b>and express their beliefs. What a</b><b>beautiful fucking thing that</b><b>is. That is a beautiful fucking thing.</b><b>And that's what they killed. Yeah. And</b><b>that's why I'm pissed.</b><b>Because he was trying to give the youth</b><b>both sides a platform and a</b><b>space. And he did successfully.</b><b>And to your point earlier, he drew both</b><b>sides in for two totally different</b><b>reasons, but he brought</b><b>them together. And sure, sometimes there</b><b>was strife and animosity, but there was</b><b>dialogue and there was</b><b>voice and it was America. That's America.</b><b>He was bringing it back.</b><b>That is what America is about.</b><b>And that's what was destroyed. And that</b><b>is a heartbreak and a</b><b>tragedy for America. It is a</b><b>historical moment. It's a big fucking</b><b>deal. Yeah. And that's what pisses me off</b><b>the most about this.</b><b>Other than it being an utter tragedy that</b><b>a human life was lost,</b><b>who has a wife and two</b><b>young children for what?</b><b>You know what's fascinating is I do think</b><b>the void will be filled, but</b><b>it won't be an organic void.</b><b>And he brought it as an organic thing.</b><b>And so there might be,</b><b>let's have open debate and let's</b><b>have people come and talk and debate and</b><b>shit, but that's</b><b>manufactured. This was organic driven</b><b>by one man who's very brilliant made it</b><b>happen. Right. It's his</b><b>idea. It was his idea. He started</b><b>with a folding table and a chair and a</b><b>sign that he wrote, prove me</b><b>wrong. Just like the banner I</b><b>made for Kaya at her marathon yesterday,</b><b>he wrote it, prove me wrong.</b><b>And he sat there. Yeah. And I</b><b>do think that there will be a rise up and</b><b>I do think people will go,</b><b>you know, I mean, his wife,</b><b>Erica said they're going to continue the</b><b>campus tours. I know that other</b><b>conservative personalities</b><b>are saying that they're going to pick up</b><b>the mic and, and, and keep</b><b>everything going, but you're</b><b>right. There won't be another Charlie</b><b>Kirk. I hope there will be. I hope there</b><b>is. I hope I'm wrong.</b><b>I don't know. I mean, has there been</b><b>another MLK or Malcolm X or JFK or, or</b><b>RFK or what it Bobby?</b><b>Right. You got a Charlie. Yeah. I don't</b><b>know. You know what I mean?</b><b>It's, I don't know. And that's,</b><b>that's also what's sad is there's not,</b><b>there's not been another</b><b>Jerry Garcia. There's no</b><b>John Lennon, right? Those, they were</b><b>fairly pivotal voices of,</b><b>you know, not so much Jerry,</b><b>right? Jerry was just very much a</b><b>pacifist, but that alone is a statement.</b><b>I don't know. I mean,</b><b>I just think we witnessed Bob Marley,</b><b>someone great get</b><b>assassinated. And I am saying is speaking</b><b>for anyone that listens to this in a</b><b>hundred years or whatever, if the</b><b>technology can keep up,</b><b>we're here to say we were here during it.</b><b>And it, it was, it was very sad and</b><b>disturbing and upsetting.</b><b>And it makes you question so many things,</b><b>but being a Gen Xer</b><b>and being someone older,</b><b>it really hits different because he was</b><b>so young. And so you know how</b><b>much life he still had ahead</b><b>of him and all the things he might've</b><b>accomplished. You'll never know.</b><b>He would have been president one day. I</b><b>think there's no doubt. I</b><b>think so. I think so. And</b><b>he might've been a decent one as a, as a</b><b>uniter possibly. I don't know.</b><b>I think so. Yeah. So I think just the</b><b>possibility that not knowing,</b><b>and this is not coming from a</b><b>political place. That's what I'm trying</b><b>to say. And there's going to</b><b>be people who no matter what</b><b>only view Charlie Kirk as political and</b><b>only view him as</b><b>conservative or only view him as Trump.</b><b>There's some people that hate Trump so</b><b>much that if you're</b><b>associated with him at all,</b><b>they're blind and they blind to it. They</b><b>can't see anything beyond that, but</b><b>that it almost, that doesn't matter. It's</b><b>like that. Again, that's</b><b>another form of you can't</b><b>get beyond your blinders to look, be</b><b>open-minded enough to see the big</b><b>picture. You know, like</b><b>I try to look at each person, whether</b><b>it's a political figure or</b><b>anyone, the entertainment</b><b>world, I feel has gone down. It's hard to</b><b>find anyone in the</b><b>entertainment world anymore, but</b><b>I think I try to look at the whole</b><b>picture. I really try hard</b><b>to look at the whole picture</b><b>and really take it all in, whether</b><b>they're left or right. And I just don't</b><b>know if, when it comes to</b><b>anyone on the, if anyone that's on the</b><b>left, if they're</b><b>looking at anyone on the right</b><b>politically, if they can do that.</b><b>I think the only person that comes to</b><b>mind might be Bernie</b><b>Sanders. And right. He seems to,</b><b>yeah, he can, whether you agree with him</b><b>or you totally disagree with him,</b><b>he is consistent in his beliefs,</b><b>consistent in his</b><b>messaging. And he is a politician,</b><b>but he is a human and his rise, his</b><b>ascendancy has been on a</b><b>consistent message. And again,</b><b>whether you hear him or not, but then you</b><b>get into like, you know,</b><b>him and AOC are buddy, buddy,</b><b>right? But Bernie's genuine. I find her</b><b>to be completely just full of shit.</b><b>And Bernie polls from both sides. He has.</b><b>He does.</b><b>He does.</b><b>Like there's been Republicans,</b><b>independents and Democrats that he's</b><b>polled. So no, yeah. So there's,</b><b>you know, it exists. It's just everything</b><b>has been so polarizing. And I think that,</b><b>I think it got lost that Charlie was</b><b>actually not there to be</b><b>polarizing. He was there to, to,</b><b>to kind of</b><b>counterbalance counterbalance things.</b><b>Think about this. I think you, you know</b><b>this, but, and it's</b><b>something I've always,</b><b>I've told the kids as they got into</b><b>college is you've got to</b><b>figure out your profession,</b><b>your professor's political leanings.</b><b>Because if you don't know your</b><b>professor's political leanings,</b><b>you're going to fail that class. Because</b><b>it's not about what you</b><b>know, related to the material,</b><b>as much as it is how you interact with</b><b>that person. And cause</b><b>there's always little, right?</b><b>It's so, I'll give you an example. I</b><b>remember taking this, I</b><b>had, I needed a filler class in</b><b>my senior year to get to graduate</b><b>college. And I took this social sciences</b><b>women's studies class.</b><b>This lady was super, super, everything</b><b>was, women were victimized</b><b>and, and it was, it was like,</b><b>holy shit. Wow. I don't, I don't believe</b><b>this. Cause I have a</b><b>strong mom. I have a strong</b><b>grandmother. I have strong aunt. So, you</b><b>know, I've grown up</b><b>around women that are strong.</b><b>They're not, they don't espouse this</b><b>victimism stuff, this</b><b>victimism stuff. And so I just</b><b>learned, I had to write that. That's what</b><b>I wrote. And I got a</b><b>straight A in that class.</b><b>Right? So I've always told the kids, know</b><b>your professor's</b><b>political leanings, because if you</b><b>sidestep them, you're fucked. God, you</b><b>just came at that from</b><b>such a male perspective.</b><b>That's so interesting. That's such a male</b><b>perspective. What you just said,</b><b>why not the, um, no, the professors, like</b><b>you should play the game.</b><b>Like you should figure out</b><b>of your professors, like leading a right</b><b>and play the game for sure. But the</b><b>whole, what you just</b><b>said about the whole class, it's like</b><b>that you were shocked.</b><b>Women have been victimized.</b><b>No, it's, I'm not, I'm not saying that</b><b>because they were</b><b>talking about the patriarchy.</b><b>No, they weren't. It was, it was just, it</b><b>was over the top. Even</b><b>now in a more enlightened</b><b>frame of mind that I'm at at this age, it</b><b>was over the top. It was</b><b>men are the pure evil men</b><b>are the Wabam. Right. That's what it was</b><b>all about. Yeah. But that's what, um,</b><b>like taking down the</b><b>patriarchy, that's that movement a</b><b>hundred percent. Yeah. So that's what,</b><b>that's what you were,</b><b>you were in there with it like that.</b><b>Yeah. A hundred percent. But, but a lot,</b><b>so I had to write that</b><b>there's a lot of validity though, with</b><b>that movement, there's a,</b><b>there's a lot of historical</b><b>references you could go to. And there's a</b><b>lot of ability, but I,</b><b>but I understand what you're</b><b>saying is, was coming from, you know, I'm</b><b>sure she, were you the only guy in there?</b><b>Uh, there's probably a few of us had to</b><b>have been a few of us. I</b><b>agree with you. I'm not saying</b><b>women haven't been short changed. I think</b><b>that the history of the</b><b>world and how women fit into it</b><b>is crazy. Honestly, it is definitely a</b><b>male dominated world.</b><b>Right. Yeah, for sure. We haven't</b><b>done the patriarchy, but I'm, I don't</b><b>think I don't remember the</b><b>contents, but I just remember</b><b>thinking, holy shit. All right. So I have</b><b>to blame men for</b><b>everything to get, I want an A.</b><b>Okay. So, but that brings me back to, um,</b><b>I think, especially for</b><b>kids in the last 10 years</b><b>on college campuses that are</b><b>conservative. If you're</b><b>going, waking up, going to school,</b><b>going to your classes and you're</b><b>surrounded by people, people who are</b><b>liberal, your professors</b><b>are liberal. It can become very isolating</b><b>feeling and you feel alone.</b><b>And again, I think Charlie</b><b>became just a comforting space for them,</b><b>you know, where they could</b><b>show up and all be together and</b><b>almost like probably discover, okay,</b><b>who's conservative on my</b><b>campus? You know, like,</b><b>okay. You know, so they deserve that too.</b><b>I think we've catered</b><b>and that's fine. Whatever.</b><b>We've catered to one side now long enough</b><b>where the other side's been</b><b>demonized and you have young</b><b>people who have been demonized simply for</b><b>what they believe in. And</b><b>they, they haven't been given</b><b>a space to feel comfortable. So I think</b><b>Charlie did give that to</b><b>them. But again, I go back to,</b><b>I think he's a real threat because he</b><b>gave it to both sides. Right. And if</b><b>you're, you're right.</b><b>He gave a voice to conservatives on</b><b>campus by having dialogue</b><b>with anybody, right? And,</b><b>and espousing conservative dogma. So he</b><b>absolutely gave that space. I think</b><b>you're right. I think</b><b>it's a shame it's lost. The reason he has</b><b>such broad appeal, the</b><b>reason the media wants his market</b><b>segment is because people who were in</b><b>that dogma were hearing</b><b>something from someone else with</b><b>actual facts and data and reasoning for</b><b>why they should question</b><b>their own left leanings. Right.</b><b>So that, that was a real, that, that</b><b>extended the spectrum. So he didn't just</b><b>have people on the far</b><b>right. He started to creep into that left</b><b>zone, that left side, a</b><b>little further and further.</b><b>Yes. And once you get there, that's a</b><b>problem, which, but then</b><b>if I put my tinfoil hat on,</b><b>who is this kid who killed him? Wow. And</b><b>why, who, who, who got to him and, and,</b><b>and made that happen.</b><b>Right. Yeah. How? And so I saw something</b><b>today, and I don't even know if this is,</b><b>has been verified, but a neighbor said</b><b>that she saw cars coming and going from</b><b>his house a few days</b><b>before the assassination with different</b><b>license plates from</b><b>different States. That'll be</b><b>interesting to see if that is a falsehood</b><b>or that's verified. Cause</b><b>that's weird. I know the mother,</b><b>I've seen reports that she's been just</b><b>wiping out everything on</b><b>her Facebook, basically.</b><b>So, cause there's stuff of him shooting</b><b>guns and things like</b><b>that. Who knows? I mean,</b><b>we know nothing still about the guy who</b><b>tried to assassinate</b><b>Trump in Butler. You know,</b><b>it's how like there's no extended</b><b>information about him. So tinfoil hat,</b><b>I'm right there with</b><b>you. You know, it, was it a hit? Was this</b><b>kid just manipulated and</b><b>radicalized to be used as</b><b>a hitman by a larger group or was this</b><b>just a lone wolf, you</b><b>know, what a mental illness.</b><b>Here's what I would like is if someone's</b><b>made it this far, who</b><b>has interest and experience</b><b>in studying these, I'd love to have you</b><b>on as a guest to talk about</b><b>this. If you have some data</b><b>driven approach that can shed light on</b><b>this, even anything from the Benzo</b><b>epidemic to the Adderall</b><b>epidemic to just prescribing our kids</b><b>psychotropic drugs that</b><b>fucks with their brain chemistry,</b><b>that stops them from connecting the dots.</b><b>Yeah. And also anyone that</b><b>maybe has some experience</b><b>and this could be redundant because they</b><b>may have experience of</b><b>what you just talked about,</b><b>but with school shootings in general or</b><b>something has studied school shootings,</b><b>because that is going to be a topic we're</b><b>going to cover and we'd</b><b>love to do a deeper dive.</b><b>Yeah. I, I feel like as more information</b><b>comes out, we may do a</b><b>mint, another mini episode on</b><b>this depending on what happens. But</b><b>again, we felt this is a moment in</b><b>history and it deserved</b><b>this time, this moment in time deserved</b><b>its own episode for</b><b>his, for history's sake.</b><b>I think we felt that Charlie deserved an</b><b>episode. We, you know, I</b><b>personally felt compelled to speak</b><b>about, I respected Charlie Kirk and we</b><b>may lose listeners and</b><b>followers for that. I hope not,</b><b>but I'm also not going to be scared to</b><b>say that. Um, cause I know</b><b>who I am and I am a good person</b><b>and have a good heart and I love people</b><b>and I'm not hateful or</b><b>racist. Um, but I did, I like</b><b>Charlie Kirk a lot. I had a lot of</b><b>respect for him and I enjoyed listening</b><b>to him. I think he was a</b><b>very bright young man, incredibly smart,</b><b>smarter than most people I</b><b>will ever know. And I think</b><b>he had an amazing future ahead of him.</b><b>And I think what happened to him was</b><b>tragic. And my heart</b><b>breaks for his wife, his two young</b><b>children who will never know</b><b>him and his parents and his</b><b>family and friends. Um, you know, I am</b><b>heartbroken all of over all of it. I, I</b><b>really truly am. I've</b><b>been very, it's been very upsetting this</b><b>week to go through this</b><b>whole experience. And I assume</b><b>this is probably how a lot of people felt</b><b>when JFK Jr was shot, when</b><b>MLK was shot, when Malcolm X</b><b>was shot. Um, you just, you mourn it's</b><b>someone you never knew,</b><b>but it was someone that was</b><b>important. John Lennon, you know, yeah,</b><b>it was important to in</b><b>society in America, the world.</b><b>Um, at least that's how I feel. Not</b><b>everyone feels that way. And</b><b>I understand and respect that,</b><b>but that's how I feel about it. I know</b><b>Brian, I think you also</b><b>felt similar feelings about it.</b><b>You know, I went through the anger. I</b><b>hate seeing these things where</b><b>people are just getting killed</b><b>from for no reason, right? I found the</b><b>stabbing very upsetting. I</b><b>found the, the killing of the</b><b>kids at that school in Minnesota</b><b>upsetting. I found killing those</b><b>politicians that the Democrats,</b><b>politicians in Minnesota, very, you know,</b><b>unfortunate and just</b><b>terrible. It makes no sense.</b><b>I think when it comes to Charlie, I do</b><b>think it's, I don't want to belittle</b><b>those what I just said,</b><b>but he had such a large platform. I do</b><b>think he's in that same, that same</b><b>category of a, of an,</b><b>of an MLK, of a Malcolm X, of a John</b><b>Lennon of someone who had a</b><b>pulse for what's going on and</b><b>what's important and gave people a voice</b><b>and gave people something to</b><b>look forward to. He's larger</b><b>than life. What he was doing became</b><b>bigger than him. And to be</b><b>hunted like that, it's just,</b><b>it makes no sense. It's got to stop. I</b><b>know that's so cliche. It's</b><b>got to stop. We got to turn the</b><b>water down or the temperature down a bull</b><b>size, right? It's so</b><b>cliche, but it's, that's up to us.</b><b>That's up to us as people, not, not the</b><b>government, not the media outlets. It's</b><b>up to people engaging</b><b>with other people. If you feel so</b><b>inclined, don't, you know, the one thing</b><b>that comes to mind is we</b><b>all have a confirmation bias, right? We</b><b>all look at things to confirm our</b><b>predisposed position of</b><b>whatever that event is. So to your point</b><b>about Charlie and you</b><b>know, you don't want people to</b><b>be upset or, or, you know, think</b><b>something differently about us, we're,</b><b>we're just open-minded</b><b>people. And I think if you drop your</b><b>confirmation bias and dig into the, dig</b><b>into Charlie, if this,</b><b>you know, you know, gets you motivated to</b><b>do it, you'll find that</b><b>he was speaking pretty</b><b>relative. You know, nothing was bad. None</b><b>of it's bad. None of it</b><b>should be inflammatory.</b><b>No, it, none of it was bad or negative,</b><b>but I think we lost the art of,</b><b>art of communication, art of discourse,</b><b>art of the back and forth</b><b>face to face. COVID could have</b><b>had a lot to do with that. And so, and</b><b>then we went so politically</b><b>correct where we almost went</b><b>mute about talking about almost anything.</b><b>So then when Charlie</b><b>came on the scene and</b><b>talked about everything openly and</b><b>loudly, it might've, it</b><b>triggered people and could have been</b><b>very jarring for people because it was</b><b>almost like going from</b><b>nothing to talking about everything.</b><b>That could have been too much of a, there</b><b>was no transition for, it</b><b>was just too jarring to them</b><b>or something. I don't know, but I do</b><b>encourage people to go listen</b><b>to Charlie and really listen</b><b>to him, not just listen to snippets, but</b><b>really go and listen to what</b><b>he has to say about different</b><b>topics and watch the prove me wrong</b><b>snippets because I find</b><b>them, I think some of them are</b><b>hilarious actually, but they're very</b><b>entertaining and informative and, and</b><b>it's, it is, it's very,</b><b>it's very sad. It's very sad that he's no</b><b>longer a part of our</b><b>society and, and that we'll never</b><b>know what could have been with him. And I</b><b>think that's also just</b><b>such a sadness. And he was so</b><b>young. So, you know, and his wife, you</b><b>know, she's watch her</b><b>cause I think she's gonna,</b><b>she's coming out strong, you know, one of</b><b>the, and I think we should</b><b>wrap this up somewhat soon here,</b><b>but one of the best ones is when he goes</b><b>to Cambridge, he dresses</b><b>up and have you seen that</b><b>where he's in like a tux and he's talking</b><b>to kids in Cambridge. No, I</b><b>never went to university and</b><b>at an intellectual level, he eviscerates</b><b>them because he, he's smart.</b><b>Like this dude, he's smart.</b><b>Yeah. Very, I don't, I'm curious. How the</b><b>hell did he get so well read</b><b>and smart at such a young age?</b><b>Just read. I guess so. But he says he</b><b>just read, he re he</b><b>never stopped reading.</b><b>That's that what it is. Yeah. People he,</b><b>and he would tell people, read, read, read everything,</b><b>read everything, read everything you can.</b><b>And I think that's</b><b>great advice, sage advice,</b><b>is to read more and scroll and doom</b><b>scroll less. Yes.</b><b>Right. There's so much about,</b><b>you could take away from what he has to</b><b>say. That's what I'm</b><b>saying. Like he was an asset to</b><b>our culture and, and that's, that's</b><b>what's just so shocking. I think about some of the reactions</b><b>about him. So, but again, I think his</b><b>wife is going to carry the</b><b>torch and she seems to be an</b><b>incredibly strong woman. And you know,</b><b>she's got those two babies</b><b>to raise. And I think turning</b><b>points going to take off strong. This is</b><b>going to become bigger than</b><b>Charlie. Like that. I think</b><b>when Charlie was assassinated, I think</b><b>there's going to be thousands and</b><b>thousands of Charlies</b><b>from this. I really do. It'll be</b><b>interesting to see the, the</b><b>only thing there would be,</b><b>I was reading, they have what, like 1600</b><b>or 18. Let's make up a</b><b>number less than 2000 chapters</b><b>across the US of which 1100 and something</b><b>are in high schools. I</b><b>didn't know that I found that.</b><b>That's interesting. Yeah. The thing that</b><b>you can't have happen is</b><b>for those people that get into</b><b>and start turning point chapters and</b><b>start speaking the dogma.</b><b>And I don't know what the</b><b>right word is, but putting Charlie on</b><b>that pedestal, don't you can't</b><b>misinterpret where he was at and</b><b>make it something that it wasn't. He</b><b>wasn't about hate. He wasn't</b><b>about this or that or racism.</b><b>So you got to be careful, right? Is that</b><b>interpretive, yes. A</b><b>morphing of ideas. Yes.</b><b>From young minds to becoming something</b><b>negative and not altruistic</b><b>and not open-minded and not</b><b>accepting and not a dialogue of equals.</b><b>Yeah. Right. And cause</b><b>that's the, that's the other side</b><b>of the pendulum. Yeah. Well, and I think</b><b>that's where the faith</b><b>balanced out. Cause he, he, it</b><b>came from a source of faith. It was a</b><b>faith base for him, which,</b><b>you know, for him was love and</b><b>open-mindedness and acceptance. Yeah. And</b><b>that's where he was not</b><b>far right. People are like,</b><b>that's the people that have an issue with</b><b>him. He was a moderate. He</b><b>was accepting of everyone.</b><b>But, but to, to the example you brought</b><b>up earlier with the</b><b>Christian, talking about the,</b><b>you know, gay people and he had to kind</b><b>of moderate them. Yeah.</b><b>That's the danger in all of this.</b><b>Yeah. Right. Yeah. Is that people could</b><b>take his words and run with</b><b>them. Yeah. But I think that's,</b><b>I think that's happened on the left all</b><b>the time. All the, oh,</b><b>they're at the worst of it. Yeah.</b><b>Obviously. So, um, anyways, again, this</b><b>just want to reiterate, this</b><b>was not a political episode.</b><b>I would love to talk about politics, but</b><b>we can't because it's so polarizing.</b><b>Yeah. You can't talk</b><b>openly about both sides of the same coin</b><b>because someone is going</b><b>to, you know, it just doesn't</b><b>work, which is a shame. I love politics.</b><b>I know. Maybe, maybe that'll change. I</b><b>don't know. It would</b><b>be nice to be able to just talk about</b><b>everything, not talk about both sides.</b><b>And maybe, and maybe</b><b>we can figure out a way to do that</b><b>without polarizing. We just</b><b>don't want to alienate people</b><b>because we want, we want this to be a</b><b>place where everyone can</b><b>come to and enjoy and, um,</b><b>and not worry about any of that stuff.</b><b>It's supposed to be kind</b><b>of a refuge or at least</b><b>a place where you can connect and</b><b>resonate or you feel seen, you feel, you</b><b>know, that, um, what your</b><b>life experience is going through. Other</b><b>people are going through it</b><b>too. We don't want to take</b><b>that away from anyone. So again, this was</b><b>not a political post, but</b><b>this was a moment in history.</b><b>And also we felt Charlie Kirk deserved an</b><b>episode for all of his</b><b>accomplishments, especially as a</b><b>31 year old man. And what he has the</b><b>legacy that he most</b><b>assuredly has left behind. So, um,</b><b>thank you listeners for listening. You</b><b>can leave any comments,</b><b>um, good or bad, you know,</b><b>feel free to leave them. Uh, we, we can</b><b>handle it, I think. And, uh,</b><b>we will see you next time. Bye.</b>