<b>[MUSIC]</b><b>Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we're</b><b>welcoming JD into the studio. Welcome JD.</b><b>Well, thank you for having</b><b>me. It's great to be here.</b><b>We're so happy to have you here.</b><b>Oh, joy.</b><b>Our first question is always,</b><b>what year were you born?</b><b>1961.</b><b>Okay. So you are a boomer.</b><b>Tail end of the baby boomers.</b><b>You are. You're at the</b><b>tail end of the baby boomers.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>Okay. Where were you born?</b><b>Fort Wayne, Indiana.</b><b>Okay, cool.</b><b>Yeah, Midwestern by birth, but moved around</b><b>a lot. So there's a lot behind that.</b><b>So are your parents from Fort Wayne?</b><b>My mother's family was there when she met</b><b>my father and he was a Michigan guy.</b><b>Okay. So what brought</b><b>your father to Fort Wayne?</b><b>He, you know, a little bit behind it.</b><b>He was the first one to go to college and</b><b>his family on the GI Bill,</b><b>he was in the Korean war,</b><b>a Navy guy and started going</b><b>to college in Michigan state.</b><b>And part of what was going down with that,</b><b>he was getting a degree in</b><b>human resources personnel.</b><b>So he started in some plants and I believe</b><b>there was some interaction between</b><b>Indiana and Michigan where they met in a</b><b>malt shop and those like</b><b>happy days type of thing.</b><b>No way.</b><b>Yeah, true stuff.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>True stuff. So Michigan by</b><b>birth him for a long time.</b><b>My mom had, I think Oklahoma, Indiana.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>But yeah, they met there.</b><b>Do you know what year?</b><b>58.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>So a real 1950s malt shop meeting.</b><b>She had the little dog on the skirt.</b><b>The poodle skirt.</b><b>The poodle skirt. And they,</b><b>you know, for them it was ideal.</b><b>Like it was truly like that happy days.</b><b>Like Greece.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's so cool.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So they met and do you know how long it was</b><b>between the time they</b><b>met and they got married?</b><b>Wasn't it wasn't long within a year.</b><b>All right.</b><b>And did they stay, they stayed in Fort</b><b>Wayne obviously, because</b><b>that's where you were born.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They bopped around a year or two.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>A year or two.</b><b>Are you the oldest?</b><b>I'm the middle child of five.</b><b>Oh, wow.</b><b>Middle child.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>How many boys, how many girls?</b><b>Two boys, excuse me, three boys, two girls.</b><b>And are the oldest, how does the order go?</b><b>My sister Lori is a couple of</b><b>years older than me and I'm 63.</b><b>My brother's one year older than me.</b><b>And then me and then my younger sister</b><b>who's probably two years younger than me.</b><b>So probably 61, 60.</b><b>And then my youngest brother is 59.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So I think your</b><b>youngest brother is a Genex.</b><b>Might be.</b><b>I think he's the last.</b><b>What year was he born?</b><b>He was born in 66.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>He's a Genex.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And the rest of you guys are boomers.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So you were in Fort Wayne for like a couple</b><b>of years after like as a baby.</b><b>Right. A year or two.</b><b>Dad again, implants, moving up the chain.</b><b>So we moved up.</b><b>We moved a bunch.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Now when he was in the Korean war, do you</b><b>know how long he served over there?</b><b>You know, I don't know all the details.</b><b>It wasn't really, he didn't really talk a</b><b>lot about it, but you</b><b>know, you see the pictures</b><b>and thank God he was</b><b>off the coast of Korea.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So he didn't actually see active battle,</b><b>but they were part of the support function.</b><b>And you know, you see</b><b>the ships and the history.</b><b>It was pretty cool.</b><b>But surprisingly, he was soft spoken,</b><b>especially when a bunch of the kids are a</b><b>little more out there.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But great dad, great dad.</b><b>But his whole thing was I just want to make</b><b>a better life comes from good family.</b><b>But that going to school super important.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>That must have meant so much to his family.</b><b>Do you know what motivated him to want to</b><b>go to college since his family hadn't gone?</b><b>That's a really good question.</b><b>I can't say he ever told me</b><b>that he just had that drive.</b><b>Good man.</b><b>One of those ones they were</b><b>raised pretty devout Catholics.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, they loved all people and as long</b><b>as people were good,</b><b>they, it worked out so well.</b><b>But that's the path they went down and he</b><b>just always wanted to do</b><b>better, to be better person,</b><b>you know, better</b><b>community, that kind of thing.</b><b>So that was, that was him.</b><b>He was just a good guy,</b><b>just a really good guy.</b><b>That's cool.</b><b>What did he do for a living?</b><b>Human resources.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And again, he started in the plants, worked</b><b>into like manufacturing</b><b>facilities, whatever they,</b><b>whatever those kind of, where they made,</b><b>whether it's sometimes I think it was</b><b>petroleum type of things or</b><b>petroleum products.</b><b>And then he moved up into the executive</b><b>offices into New York over time.</b><b>This was, you know, when</b><b>everything was made in America.</b><b>Right.</b><b>True.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's very different now, but this is back</b><b>when you could get a job in</b><b>America to many manufacturing plants</b><b>and build a career off of that where those</b><b>opportunities, you know, like the younger</b><b>generations couldn't,</b><b>that's not as available to them, I guess.</b><b>Right.</b><b>I'd agree.</b><b>He did a lot of union negotiations.</b><b>So it's interesting that you say that.</b><b>So now that you're saying it's flagging me,</b><b>I can remember how some of that was pretty</b><b>tense, but, you know, very</b><b>important, you know, same time.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So did his job, was your</b><b>mom a stay at home mom?</b><b>Yes.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And with that many kids, definitely.</b><b>Now did his job, did he travel or did you</b><b>guys move because of his job?</b><b>Yeah, we moved.</b><b>I think I lived in a</b><b>total, probably 10 states.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>What states?</b><b>So lived in Indiana, Baton Rouge,</b><b>Louisiana, Wilmington,</b><b>Delaware, Randolph, New Jersey,</b><b>Baltimore, Maryland, went to college in</b><b>Virginia, James Madison and Harrisonburg,</b><b>Virginia, moved to New York, my college</b><b>buddy, and then from New York to Florida.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So that's been that.</b><b>So with my parents, you know, once I went</b><b>to college, that's when we dispersed, but</b><b>yeah, so we had a lot of music.</b><b>You did have a lot of moves.</b><b>So your elementary years, where were they?</b><b>A couple of different places.</b><b>It was Delaware and then New Jersey.</b><b>And then what about middle school?</b><b>New Jersey.</b><b>In Randolph?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It was one.</b><b>Randolph's close to where I grew up.</b><b>I know.</b><b>I know.</b><b>I heard your guy.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I loved it.</b><b>It was ideal.</b><b>Like quite frankly, you go back to now and</b><b>I can't believe it because it's been built</b><b>up so much, but it was, you know, he was</b><b>going into New York city,</b><b>working for WR, Grace at the time.</b><b>I mean, they had that beautiful building</b><b>with the bend and really proud of that.</b><b>Or in the Parsippany where they had a lot</b><b>of executive offices too for the various, I</b><b>think at the time it was a chemical company</b><b>that he was working for.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>Might've been Dow actually, actually.</b><b>I had a friend of mine moved from out of</b><b>state from Michigan to New Jersey because</b><b>his dad worked at Dow in Parsippany.</b><b>It was allied chemical.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>I don't know if that really, too.</b><b>Yeah, they were at the time for sure.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So his commute, he would</b><b>commute into the city every morning.</b><b>No, no, I think that he did a fair amount,</b><b>but at the same time they</b><b>had a facility in Parsippany.</b><b>And that's not too bad.</b><b>Not too bad at all.</b><b>No, people don't realize that</b><b>part of Jersey is beautiful.</b><b>You know, they picture the Sopranos when</b><b>you say New Jersey, but there's a whole</b><b>part of Jersey that's small town.</b><b>We lived on a lake, you guys.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, like you were talking about your</b><b>kids, you they're able to go out.</b><b>You know, this was, this was fantastic.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So what?</b><b>Oh, sorry.</b><b>No, I was going to say he was real proud of</b><b>that because each time we moved, it was a</b><b>step up for, you know, your housing, which</b><b>was always a blessing.</b><b>And then, you know, I know my mom enjoyed</b><b>that, but you know,</b><b>five kids in seven years.</b><b>It was a, it was really</b><b>tough when we talk about her.</b><b>She was great, great mom,</b><b>but I mean, that's tough.</b><b>It is.</b><b>That was really tough.</b><b>That's a lot.</b><b>That's a lot.</b><b>So when you were in elementary school and</b><b>middle school, did you do any sports?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Oh, you know, typical</b><b>football and baseball and basketball.</b><b>It was idyllic.</b><b>Quite honestly, I can just remember having</b><b>to a younger brother who we always play</b><b>with in my older brother and</b><b>friends in the neighborhood.</b><b>It seemed to be, you know, don't want to</b><b>overplay that, but it was just wonderful.</b><b>Now, did they have travel</b><b>sports when you were growing up?</b><b>That I don't believe so.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So it was still, it was still like, like</b><b>just everyone, neighborhood and school</b><b>friends played on the baseball team.</b><b>Then same friends played</b><b>on football and basketball.</b><b>That kind of thing.</b><b>You would go to different schools.</b><b>You'd have the different</b><b>schools you're competing against.</b><b>But what's interesting is I think they were</b><b>real smart about where they ended up</b><b>purchasing the homes, like near this lake.</b><b>And by the way, it was called Shungum Lake,</b><b>if you know, random, beautiful lake.</b><b>And then when we lived, other areas, they'd</b><b>get it near a school.</b><b>So, you know, you just go to the school and</b><b>you, you know, they'd have camps in the</b><b>summer, where is tennis</b><b>camp or all sorts of things.</b><b>So I think my parents were, they thought</b><b>that through because that, again, dad was</b><b>working and mom had, you</b><b>know, probably the hardest jobs.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. Mom was sitting home with five kids.</b><b>She's like, I need a playground nearby.</b><b>I need a lake, you know,</b><b>probably have some rules.</b><b>I think they really, I think</b><b>that was well thought through.</b><b>Yeah, absolutely.</b><b>Did you walk to school?</b><b>I can remember walking to school.</b><b>I can remember some of the bus rides.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So close enough where she</b><b>didn't have to drive you guys.</b><b>That is correct.</b><b>I know.</b><b>Don't ever remember that.</b><b>That's smart.</b><b>That might've put her over the top.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So high school, where was that?</b><b>High school started in, it</b><b>was in New Jersey for one year.</b><b>And then I moved to Towson, Maryland,</b><b>outside of Baltimore.</b><b>And that was my 10th,</b><b>11th and 12th grade year.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So how hard was it to move to</b><b>be the new kid in high school?</b><b>For me, it just worked out really well.</b><b>I was comfortable because we had moved for</b><b>someone like brothers and sisters.</b><b>It was super hard.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Super hard.</b><b>It's probably, um, do you think that's</b><b>because of your disposition and your</b><b>personality since everyone kind of</b><b>responded to it differently or cause you</b><b>were a little older, like did you young,</b><b>your younger siblings have a harder time</b><b>with it or your older siblings?</b><b>My older siblings.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>There it's really, knowing me and then</b><b>knowing them, they're, I love my brothers</b><b>and sisters have always been very good, but</b><b>we are extremely different.</b><b>The two, my older sister and older brother,</b><b>intelligent and, um, read a lot of books.</b><b>My brother was very handy.</b><b>I was out the door.</b><b>I was playing ball.</b><b>I was doing what you're</b><b>talking about your son doing.</b><b>I'm on the phone at 15.</b><b>I'm I want to talk to my friends and girls.</b><b>So, so I was out.</b><b>My brother was out.</b><b>My sister was, she was in between that, the</b><b>younger, but all good.</b><b>I think my sister and brother felt</b><b>responsibility to help my mom, especially</b><b>my older sister, she's, she's wonderful.</b><b>But I think that because my mom had parents</b><b>had so many kids, she had, she</b><b>assumed a role and, you know, lives a great</b><b>life, great husband and kids and all</b><b>that, but at the same time, I think she</b><b>got, had to hold help out.</b><b>I think that happens.</b><b>I think, I think in larger families, the</b><b>older siblings naturally are given some</b><b>responsibility of the younger siblings.</b><b>And so I think, and I think back when your</b><b>parents were having kids, having a</b><b>large family was pretty common, right?</b><b>Correct.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>More, way more common</b><b>than now, I would say.</b><b>Totally agree.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Totally.</b><b>Like you said, I have five kids now.</b><b>People definitely would be</b><b>like, wow, we're back then.</b><b>That was probably like,</b><b>yeah, that makes sense.</b><b>I think a lot of people did it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>A lot of people.</b><b>Especially Catholics.</b><b>Right.</b><b>That was a historical</b><b>Catholic, large Catholic family.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>I think they felt that was a big part of</b><b>it, you know, because I think my sister</b><b>was born right about nine</b><b>months after the wedding.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But that was part of it.</b><b>They, you know, they wanted to.</b><b>Well, everything you just said too, right?</b><b>They met and then within a year, you're</b><b>saying you think they got married.</b><b>And then by nine months later, they have</b><b>your sister and then four more kids coming</b><b>through.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's, that was that traditional.</b><b>I think that's how it was, you know, a</b><b>little interesting tidbit on that, though.</b><b>We talked about the malt shop, which is,</b><b>you know, my dad just, you know, they went</b><b>thereafter basketball</b><b>games when he was younger.</b><b>So this was, you know, it is cool.</b><b>But he said the moment my mother walked</b><b>into the malt shop, like he felt it's a</b><b>different kind of energy.</b><b>He goes, I knew I was</b><b>going to marry this lady.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>He said that from the get-go and for him to</b><b>say it, it's kind of interesting</b><b>because he's kind of a little, again,</b><b>soft-spoken, a little quiet, and might've</b><b>kept that to himself as you get.</b><b>But I remember him saying that and then</b><b>flash forward to when I met my wife, which</b><b>we can talk about when the time is right,</b><b>but met her at a party through her sister</b><b>who I went to college with.</b><b>And what's interesting,</b><b>she didn't feel this at all.</b><b>Same, same thing happened.</b><b>She walked into the room</b><b>and something happened.</b><b>You know, I swear you guys, I don't mean to</b><b>because I almost would have been easier.</b><b>I wasn't living in New York.</b><b>Life was great.</b><b>Living with my college</b><b>roommate, the cross buddy.</b><b>Life was great.</b><b>But this, so there's a connection there.</b><b>Remember my dad saying that?</b><b>I go, I felt that about my wife, Charcy.</b><b>Everything changed for the better.</b><b>That is so cool.</b><b>And it's so true, you guys.</b><b>Yeah, yeah, that's fate.</b><b>Wish she would have felt the same way.</b><b>She's like, what are you talking about?</b><b>It's like, you know, I think she can relate</b><b>to what you're saying</b><b>when I walked in the room.</b><b>Well, you guys did</b><b>connect rather quick, right?</b><b>We were friends.</b><b>So we met when we were 19 and we were</b><b>really good friends for three years.</b><b>Yeah, a little different.</b><b>Yeah, yeah.</b><b>We were and our friendship just got</b><b>stronger and stronger and stronger.</b><b>And then about a month before we graduated</b><b>college, we realized</b><b>we felt like we kind of</b><b>expressed how we felt.</b><b>I was dating one of his good friends.</b><b>And so it allowed us to have a really</b><b>strong platonic friendship</b><b>because we were always in the same</b><b>group, always together.</b><b>But did you feel yeah, the year?</b><b>Yeah, the year before we graduated, I</b><b>remember feeling conflicted, definitely.</b><b>And we would spend a lot of time together.</b><b>And I think when we have reminisced on</b><b>that, we both look back and think we were</b><b>both feeling the same</b><b>thing, but I was dating his friend and I</b><b>had been with him for a long time.</b><b>And then I think it came to the point where</b><b>it was OK, so we need to</b><b>just admit something, admit how</b><b>we're feeling and see what happens.</b><b>And then we weren't apart after that.</b><b>Yeah, that was it.</b><b>So beautiful, though, because you're the</b><b>guy at the same time.</b><b>You've got those feelings that you know you</b><b>want to be with that person.</b><b>Yeah, it was you wanted to make sure you</b><b>don't want to affect another</b><b>relationship unless it's like</b><b>real.</b><b>That's tough.</b><b>So but and then that was it.</b><b>We were we graduated a month later and we</b><b>drove around the country.</b><b>Are you still friends with</b><b>that person, Brian, or that all?</b><b>No, I don't think so.</b><b>Not really.</b><b>No.</b><b>No, that's another story.</b><b>He was not happy with that?</b><b>Nope.</b><b>There was no what did the kids call it?</b><b>Cross over, you know, like I ended the</b><b>relationship and then there</b><b>was nothing like I'm trying to</b><b>say it was all in the up and up.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So so OK, so high</b><b>school, then you graduate.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And well, during high school, did you kind</b><b>of get an idea what you</b><b>wanted to do for a living?</b><b>Didn't really think about it.</b><b>It's too good a time sports lacrosse,</b><b>baseball, lacrosse, wrestling.</b><b>Friends.</b><b>So when did you start playing lacrosse?</b><b>The last year in high</b><b>school, your senior year.</b><b>Yeah, I never played before.</b><b>Never did.</b><b>And we were big in lacrosse outside of it,</b><b>but just so many friends played.</b><b>So I was picking up a stick.</b><b>So it started really in college.</b><b>Quite frankly, I lived with a couple really</b><b>good New Yorkers that</b><b>played some great lacrosse.</b><b>So I got brought into the to the mix and it</b><b>ended up being just a great time.</b><b>So you played lacrosse in college.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>But you didn't start</b><b>until your senior year.</b><b>That is correct.</b><b>That's I mean, that's unheard of now.</b><b>Well, really, at the time,</b><b>James Madison was a club.</b><b>So really good</b><b>lacrosse, but they were clubs.</b><b>A lot of the schools that are clubs now now</b><b>play D1 and you know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But it was just fantastic.</b><b>Like we played like a Virginia B team and</b><b>they would just beat you up.</b><b>But that time Virginia was winning titles.</b><b>But it was great.</b><b>And I was really it was good that I was</b><b>able to pick it up like that.</b><b>I probably didn't</b><b>compare to some of the others.</b><b>But I got involved in running the club and</b><b>ended up being the president of the club.</b><b>And we would go to various campuses,</b><b>William and Mary, Virginia military.</b><b>And you just play on the college campus and</b><b>have just that's why beautiful all these</b><b>beautiful campus.</b><b>Oh, no.</b><b>Virginia Tech.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>How would you guys get around?</b><b>You like school?</b><b>They provided they provided us resources</b><b>because it will across</b><b>was big in that area.</b><b>That's Shenandoah Valley.</b><b>So it was big in the area.</b><b>So we always had that.</b><b>And, you know, they would do</b><b>various things to raise money.</b><b>But it was great.</b><b>You got to meet friends and then you'd be,</b><b>you know, at Lynchburg, staying overnight</b><b>or whatever. And some of the dorms of the</b><b>other guys on the other team.</b><b>And did you have to try</b><b>out for the club team?</b><b>I know there's really no formal tryout, but</b><b>I think what happened by osmosis, if you</b><b>weren't good enough.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, we had a coach who</b><b>was a ended up becoming a mentor.</b><b>I love the guy who was</b><b>a World War Two pilot.</b><b>Never forget him.</b><b>Colonel Roland Bud Brady.</b><b>And he was the coach and he was lived down</b><b>in Stanton probably 20, 30 minutes from the</b><b>college. And he wanted to</b><b>coach because he played lacrosse.</b><b>He was a skier.</b><b>He was just this wonderful gentleman and a</b><b>great pilot, some</b><b>great stories behind it in</b><b>World War Two.</b><b>But he took to me.</b><b>So he knew that I had</b><b>at least I could play.</b><b>But.</b><b>Captain, you know, I was captain, the</b><b>wrestling team in high school.</b><b>Yeah. One of my buddies that I went to</b><b>college with played</b><b>lacrosse with me at college and he</b><b>was a captain. So we already had that kind</b><b>of experience on we</b><b>can have fun and all this</b><b>kind of stuff. But at the same</b><b>time, we got to do this right.</b><b>You know, so let's do it.</b><b>He saw leadership in you.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>Yeah, I think so.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Because now I mean, it's so competitive</b><b>now, like it's even</b><b>competitive club is I think</b><b>there's no doubt it's completely different,</b><b>I think, where I don't</b><b>think you just can play</b><b>club even now.</b><b>It's you try out for club and all that.</b><b>So for you to be able to have that</b><b>experience and then to be</b><b>recognized for your leadership</b><b>characteristics and not just how long</b><b>you've been playing</b><b>lacrosse is pretty cool.</b><b>And I owe him a debt of gratitude because</b><b>one, it helped me further</b><b>define who I was going to be</b><b>on being an Air Force.</b><b>And he ended up being like</b><b>the military attache to Turkey.</b><b>And so he was a class guy.</b><b>You needed to do it as right.</b><b>And, you know, I met his wife and became</b><b>part of the extended family for some time.</b><b>And they were class.</b><b>So he just wanted you, you know, he still</b><b>knew we were kids, but at</b><b>the same time expected a</b><b>certain level of and I respected that he'd</b><b>have us into his house</b><b>and, you know, you'd have</b><b>the little drink before dinner and</b><b>everybody dressed accordingly.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And, you know, when you were at the table,</b><b>he he had dignitaries there periodically.</b><b>There was a couple.</b><b>Yeah, it was a couple of wild stories about</b><b>who he who I had dinner</b><b>with as a young kid that I</b><b>didn't realize till till after the fact.</b><b>But he was well</b><b>connected and well respected.</b><b>And, you know, like I</b><b>said, absolutely loved the guy.</b><b>You were you were learning life skills,</b><b>learning life skills.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>From a hero, by the way.</b><b>From a hero.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>He left me his when he passed and got</b><b>buried in Arlington, the</b><b>most beautiful thing I've ever</b><b>seen.</b><b>He left me his flight records and some of</b><b>the stories in the flight</b><b>records were like, you know,</b><b>how they flow in these</b><b>formation as someone gets hit.</b><b>You got to take lead and stuff.</b><b>And there's just some of the stories.</b><b>And he wasn't he wasn't</b><b>talked too deep about it.</b><b>But once I got the flight</b><b>records, guy was a hero.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>Amazing.</b><b>I wish we could have one of those guys on.</b><b>You know, I don't know</b><b>if there's any around.</b><b>There's a there's a small population.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Like World War Two vets around.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Just to capture some of their stories, you</b><b>know, because the</b><b>younger generations have no</b><b>concept of World War One, World War Two</b><b>veterans, really what they</b><b>have to say, you know, we</b><b>kind of do because of growing up and</b><b>hearing, you know, on TV</b><b>or interviews or whatever.</b><b>But there's just no exposure anymore.</b><b>You know, so I just think that's so amazing</b><b>that he was your lacrosse coach.</b><b>That's so cool.</b><b>It was meant to be.</b><b>Did absolutely.</b><b>Did you maintain a</b><b>relationship after you graduated?</b><b>I did.</b><b>You did.</b><b>I mean, did he meet any of your like your</b><b>wife and kids or anything like that?</b><b>He did.</b><b>Again, he was getting older</b><b>and had some heart problems.</b><b>I think he died in his later 70s.</b><b>But they owned a really classy bath shop in</b><b>this cute town called Stant, Virginia.</b><b>We stayed there.</b><b>Did you?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So it's funny that the world of lacrosse,</b><b>we were going to</b><b>lacrosse tournaments a couple</b><b>summers ago, right up in the Northeast</b><b>Connecticut or Rhode Island or something.</b><b>And we left here South Florida, drove all</b><b>the way up to Stanton,</b><b>spent the night there,</b><b>got up the next day and drove up.</b><b>What is it?</b><b>70 something.</b><b>What?</b><b>I hate 81.</b><b>81.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>We passed ODU, Old Dominion, which really</b><b>has that's the purple stadium.</b><b>Really cool school.</b><b>Beautiful area.</b><b>We're on the towards the water, right?</b><b>What is Old Dominion?</b><b>Isn't that that now?</b><b>No, no, I'm sorry.</b><b>You're right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Where did you go again?</b><b>What did you say?</b><b>Change Madison.</b><b>That's what we passed right away.</b><b>That's correct.</b><b>It was right off the script.</b><b>The two up.</b><b>We passed James Madison.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Beautiful.</b><b>Old Dominion is totally on</b><b>the other side of the state.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I thank God for that college experience.</b><b>It was, you hope everybody has it.</b><b>And I realize now more than ever, you don't</b><b>have to have a college degree by any, you</b><b>know, whatever works.</b><b>But again, it was super</b><b>important to the parents at the time.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>What a 40.</b><b>Well, it was five.</b><b>You did five years.</b><b>Sucker up.</b><b>You got that fifth year.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So when did you know,</b><b>um, you wanted to go there?</b><b>Cause you're in high school.</b><b>Cause now of course, everything's so crazy</b><b>with kids, you know, junior year,</b><b>touring colleges and you can even start</b><b>applying to college this summer before</b><b>your senior year and a lot of these kids</b><b>know where they're going by fall of their</b><b>senior year, but I don't</b><b>think it was like that back then.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Was it?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So what was it like when</b><b>you went to go to college?</b><b>One, it was exciting.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>And you know, we had some resources to</b><b>parents deal was they'll pay for half.</b><b>You got to work in the summers.</b><b>And because he had that kind of a job, he</b><b>was able to get us all good jobs where</b><b>we're earning money.</b><b>You know, working in, but they also was</b><b>smart again, seven to three, three to 11,</b><b>11 to seven.</b><b>So we would be doing shifts working in</b><b>these various plants.</b><b>And so that kind of made you appreciate</b><b>learning how to be a good worker and then</b><b>being a little jealous of your friends</b><b>going up at the same time.</b><b>You know, we made some good money.</b><b>So there was that good mix up.</b><b>We're paying 50 50.</b><b>And you know, that was, that was the</b><b>agreement, but just being able to</b><b>experience meeting the people that I did in</b><b>the Virginia, which was beautiful.</b><b>It just, you know, I couldn't have asked</b><b>for more, but back to your question, it</b><b>really came down to what were our SATs.</b><b>I knew I wanted to go</b><b>with my best buddy as well.</b><b>So his SATs, a little lacking, but you</b><b>know, you know what I'm saying?</b><b>And then it was how much to get in.</b><b>Right.</b><b>So those were the two variables.</b><b>And then we bounced around and visit where</b><b>were the, where were they?</b><b>And quite honestly, it was so funny.</b><b>I can remember still we're up in my</b><b>bedroom, you know,</b><b>figuring out they had the books</b><b>at the time, there was not like, you see</b><b>now we're like James Madison.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>It was 3000 a semester</b><b>or, or it was affordable.</b><b>What it might've even</b><b>have been a year at the time.</b><b>And, um, you know, the SAT scores and then</b><b>65% girls, 35% guys, it was a woman's</b><b>teacher college years and years ago.</b><b>Boom.</b><b>That's a great ratio.</b><b>So that ratio just fell right into</b><b>something that just stood out and then you</b><b>go visit and you're like, you know, it's</b><b>just blown up now, but at the time they're</b><b>like 10,000 students, including, you know,</b><b>people that are, what's that?</b><b>The after graduates or whatever they would.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So you guys would have a book.</b><b>They would have all the colleges.</b><b>Right.</b><b>And so you kind of narrowed down maybe</b><b>where you want to go.</b><b>Or you would just look through the book and</b><b>read about the different colleges.</b><b>And mainly it was the SAT score required.</b><b>So they didn't really look</b><b>at care about grades as much.</b><b>Um, I don't think so.</b><b>So it's SAT.</b><b>And then you looked at</b><b>how much does this cost?</b><b>Like, can we afford it?</b><b>Correct.</b><b>Can our family afford it?</b><b>Correct.</b><b>I don't remember like the high school</b><b>counselor helping me much might up, but</b><b>again, I didn't need</b><b>that kind of assistance.</b><b>And then you didn't have to</b><b>write an essay or have a resume.</b><b>Did we?</b><b>No.</b><b>Are you,</b><b>yeah, we had to do that.</b><b>I don't remember that at all.</b><b>We had to do an essay, but we didn't have</b><b>to do a resume because now it's SAT grades.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Resume.</b><b>Essay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's a whole thing.</b><b>And people pay out, pay college, um,</b><b>counselors or guys like thousands,</b><b>there's a whole cottage industry.</b><b>It's so different.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So when did you know you got accepted?</b><b>Got accepted.</b><b>Like senior year end of senior year.</b><b>You know, I think I worked for six months</b><b>before I, uh, cause I didn't get in, I</b><b>don't believe the first semester or, you</b><b>know, how that, what was it?</b><b>What'd they call it?</b><b>They put you on like a waiting list and</b><b>then my, uh, college roommate that I</b><b>wanted to make sure it took</b><b>him a year to be able to get in.</b><b>So I think six months I stayed working in</b><b>the plants, you know, that kind of thing,</b><b>building up money, but knowing that I was</b><b>getting in and then he joined about six</b><b>months later.</b><b>And then did you guys,</b><b>uh, were you in dorm?</b><b>Um, we went off campus</b><b>from the very get go.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>It went, and that was.</b><b>So the two of you in an apartment.</b><b>We did.</b><b>And then did you do Greek life at all?</b><b>I didn't, we couldn't play in a sport.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>It would have been</b><b>really, really difficult.</b><b>And I do miss that because my son went</b><b>through that, that thank God I was able</b><b>to be part of as a dad and I really enjoyed</b><b>what I saw, but no, it was, it was</b><b>too much.</b><b>Well, your form of that would</b><b>have been being with lacrosse.</b><b>You still had that camaraderie.</b><b>Oh, absolutely.</b><b>I'm sure you guys had parties.</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>All that stuff was so when, okay.</b><b>So if you started what maybe spring</b><b>semester, you said you were deferred.</b><b>Yeah, I was deferred.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>And then he started what?</b><b>The following, the following, right.</b><b>The following fall.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So that first</b><b>semester, were you on your own?</b><b>I, you know, ended up just meeting a couple</b><b>of people that were in the same</b><b>type of scenario and you know, you get</b><b>potluck and it worked out pretty good.</b><b>Nice.</b><b>Worked out.</b><b>You guys got an apartment together.</b><b>Got an apartment.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Fun.</b><b>It was such a farm kind</b><b>of area at those times.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And it was just, you know, you could go in</b><b>there with quarries and forests and you</b><b>know, that Shenandoah Valley.</b><b>So it was just idealic.</b><b>So they had like the dorms out campus</b><b>because it was growing so much where these</b><b>cute apartments they</b><b>built into the scenery.</b><b>That's awesome.</b><b>It's, it's truly a beautiful area for</b><b>anybody who's not been through there.</b><b>It's beautiful.</b><b>It's so beautiful.</b><b>So when, if you started spring and he</b><b>started fall, when did you guys start</b><b>lacrosse?</b><b>That first, that fall.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That fall.</b><b>That's fine.</b><b>So then that's when</b><b>you're lacrosse club lacrosse.</b><b>And did you do that the</b><b>whole time you were in school?</b><b>Correct.</b><b>You say, what's interesting.</b><b>One of the guys that I met that roomed</b><b>with, and you know, we, I don't think</b><b>we stayed, not friends, he was fine, but,</b><b>um, just not meant to be as far as, you</b><b>know, the lasting friendship kind of thing.</b><b>He's the one that turned me on to lacrosse.</b><b>So he would sit there.</b><b>So for those six months,</b><b>says my friend was coming down.</b><b>Um, you know, that's where I learned in it.</b><b>Just kind of.</b><b>Well, you had played for the</b><b>senior year in high school, right?</b><b>No, no, no.</b><b>I just played with the guys.</b><b>That's the first time I picked up a stick.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So what you didn't actually</b><b>play on the high school team.</b><b>So you just had friends who did.</b><b>That's correct.</b><b>Like pick up a stick</b><b>and mess around with them.</b><b>But then that spring semester college and</b><b>you met this kid, correct.</b><b>And he pretty much taught you lacrosse.</b><b>He did.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>You know, it's wild too is, you know how</b><b>some things like I love golf, but I was</b><b>never natural at that at all, as much as I</b><b>love it, it just seemed like lacrosse.</b><b>Were you, you must, you must have been, you</b><b>must have been, you know, to be able.</b><b>There's a lot of</b><b>stamina associated with that.</b><b>I was telling you, I wrestled in college.</b><b>So you, excuse me,</b><b>high school, not college.</b><b>And you know, you got to control weight.</b><b>You got to do a lot of things that</b><b>challenge you discipline discipline.</b><b>So on a discipline.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So, you know, our practices and this is,</b><b>you know, a army, excuse me, a Air Force</b><b>Colonel running the practice, you ran, I</b><b>think 10 miles of practice.</b><b>I, that might be an exaggeration, but we</b><b>were in really, really good shape.</b><b>So I think that that helped me as much.</b><b>I don't think I was as good as some of the</b><b>ones that were more natural, but I was</b><b>able to score a fair amount and be around</b><b>that, but, uh, I definitely wasn't on the</b><b>top echelon, but I was, I was helpful in.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You had a good, uh,</b><b>athletic base to build off.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>So do you know what position?</b><b>Do you remember what position?</b><b>Sure.</b><b>Midi center, midi.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And you need to be quick and have good</b><b>stamina to be a midi.</b><b>Cause you're back and forth, back and</b><b>forth, back and forth,</b><b>each end of the field.</b><b>And that was it.</b><b>That was it.</b><b>And I love that as you know, I think you're</b><b>got, you're telling me your son</b><b>played plays, I love that.</b><b>You know, it's physical.</b><b>It is.</b><b>And you know, as a young guy, you want to</b><b>get that out of your.</b><b>Yeah. You know what I mean?</b><b>The slide, Brian and somebody's coming and</b><b>you're coming across the crease.</b><b>And this guy takes you.</b><b>It was, so that was now it's</b><b>a great, it's an amazing game.</b><b>I don't think she can relate to her, not</b><b>relate, but she shocked</b><b>cause it's changed so much.</b><b>You've got to build up even this to get</b><b>into a club program at this point.</b><b>It's a whole thing.</b><b>It's not.</b><b>It's so, it's so, I don't know if I would</b><b>have been able to get in it.</b><b>It's a whole thing.</b><b>And playing, you need to play travel in</b><b>order to really keep it like</b><b>the rec programs.</b><b>And I think this is true with a lot of</b><b>youth sports now is younger kids start</b><b>out in rec and then a lot of kids will pick</b><b>a sport and do travel that sport</b><b>and then play on the rec teams during that</b><b>season and are so much better than</b><b>just kids that are just doing it for fun.</b><b>And then those kids don't get playing time.</b><b>I think travel sports</b><b>has affected rec sports.</b><b>A hundred percent.</b><b>It's kind of pushed out kids that just want</b><b>to play sports just casually.</b><b>Especially here in Florida.</b><b>Cause it's so nice year round that kids</b><b>pick a sport at a young age and they</b><b>focus on it and they get really good at it.</b><b>So to her point, the casual, you know,</b><b>athlete, rec athlete, they're just behind.</b><b>It's become very intense.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>I don't know if I like that.</b><b>I know.</b><b>I don't like that.</b><b>No, because you know what?</b><b>You want these kids to still play sports,</b><b>even if they went into a YMCA,</b><b>they still have them and you know, you get</b><b>on a team and you know,</b><b>that was such a big part of my life.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I think for our age too, I think travel</b><b>was just starting for Gen X.</b><b>I played football in the fall, basketball</b><b>in the winter, and then baseball in the</b><b>summer or spring summer, and then you screw</b><b>around in the summer and you</b><b>jump back into football, but I think they</b><b>don't do that anymore.</b><b>It's like you're around.</b><b>That was fabulous.</b><b>Right.</b><b>I mean, it had to be, I loved it.</b><b>I mean, that's a kid dream.</b><b>Totally relate to what you're saying, that</b><b>ideal childhood of playing different</b><b>sports and just being athletic.</b><b>And, you know, they do say a lot of the,</b><b>like a lot of lacrosse coaches, even</b><b>football coaches, the big programs, they</b><b>want multi-sport athletes because they</b><b>know they're more well-rounded.</b><b>They're not just completely hyper focused.</b><b>You start running into repetitive,</b><b>repetitive motion injuries, you know,</b><b>pitchers now, Tommy, John, football players</b><b>get hurt, all that stuff.</b><b>And burnout.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Burnout.</b><b>I think that's interesting.</b><b>You know, it's changed.</b><b>And there's just an intensity amongst</b><b>parents and it's just different now.</b><b>So it's really that old fashioned, oh, I'm</b><b>just going to play a sport.</b><b>It's not, once you hit, I</b><b>feel like 10, 10 is where the 10.</b><b>Got to be good or you're out.</b><b>Or yeah, the 10 is when they're really,</b><b>although now we've been at, now it's</b><b>might be eight or</b><b>nine, like when, you know,</b><b>you know, what will have to happen.</b><b>You got to come back in a few years.</b><b>When, when JD juniors about to get in, when</b><b>he has to decide, you come back and</b><b>tell us, yeah, because he is a grandfather.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Your kids with their kids are</b><b>going to end up going through it.</b><b>It's just, I don't know.</b><b>The whole, the whole</b><b>phenomenon is really interesting.</b><b>I'm hoping that it's going to go so far.</b><b>It's going so far this way that eventually</b><b>it'll come back around it and people</b><b>start to embrace just the</b><b>organic playing of sports.</b><b>Cause that'll happen.</b><b>That's, I think that's healthy.</b><b>I think that's going to be the next step.</b><b>That's the next business.</b><b>There you go.</b><b>Is that so interesting?</b><b>You talk about it.</b><b>So I, uh, my grandson who's Jackson Declan</b><b>and John David, so he's, you know,</b><b>hoping they'd say, call him James.</b><b>They got the initials, right?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But anyway, for whatever reason, his dad,</b><b>he's got these plastic clubs, you</b><b>know, golf clubs, he loves</b><b>golf because his dad loves golf.</b><b>So I've taken him to the range, you know,</b><b>at the country club a couple of times.</b><b>And he's got a little bag says Jackson.</b><b>And you know, we got him the real driver or</b><b>real sandwich and a putter.</b><b>And he's two and a half, right?</b><b>So we'll get up there and you know,</b><b>everybody's so kind to him and stuff.</b><b>You know, we don't do it where, you know,</b><b>cause he's young and I don't want to mess</b><b>up the flow of people really being serious,</b><b>but you know, there's, it's so</b><b>hot right now that, you know, it's not near</b><b>as busy, but anyway, two and a half.</b><b>There's a guy giving lessons to pro to a</b><b>woman and you know, Jackson sitting there</b><b>watching what's going on.</b><b>I kind of explained, well, honey, this</b><b>teaches you how to be good.</b><b>Well, anyway, I called the</b><b>guy because started go sure.</b><b>Two and a half year old</b><b>got, you know, his swing.</b><b>He's got, he's been walks around the suite.</b><b>So sure enough, the pro goes with generally</b><b>people don't start till four or five, but</b><b>he goes, I do have a couple of two and a</b><b>half year olds that, you know, if they can</b><b>sit or, and if they'll</b><b>listen, if they'll listen.</b><b>So Monday, 11 o'clock or Monday or the</b><b>afternoon, I forget what time, um,</b><b>got his first lesson.</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>Taking them.</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>No, but I'm now I'm going back to going.</b><b>You're in it.</b><b>I'm in it, but I'd rather him be</b><b>well-rounded and be able to do all those</b><b>multiple things.</b><b>He walks around with the,</b><b>you know, a club in his hand.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>He likes it.</b><b>He likes it.</b><b>No, I mean, I think, and, and training, uh,</b><b>kids don't get trainings on all the</b><b>sports.</b><b>It's very common now.</b><b>So whether they're playing multiple sports,</b><b>they're getting trainings on all those.</b><b>So like, if you were to tell that to</b><b>anyone, they'd be like, yeah,</b><b>that sounds normal.</b><b>Do you know?</b><b>That's just how it is.</b><b>That's what you do.</b><b>You know, with everything</b><b>we said, we're part of it.</b><b>We've done the travel up to the Northeast.</b><b>We've done it all.</b><b>So we're, we're not, it is what it is with</b><b>your older kids or was that just your</b><b>younger?</b><b>So when did this happen?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So what's interesting is with our, um, our,</b><b>with our old with our older son, um,</b><b>travel existed, uh, he's 28.</b><b>So he was born in 1997.</b><b>So when he was in middle school elementary,</b><b>it was just regular little league.</b><b>Um, and then middle school, he played for</b><b>the school and travel wasn't really,</b><b>really prevalent yet for they'd existed,</b><b>but it wasn't, no one was talking about</b><b>it.</b><b>It wasn't like, so what travel team is he</b><b>going to play for or who's he trying?</b><b>It wasn't common like that.</b><b>So that was 15.</b><b>That was like 14, 13, 14.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So he just, he played little league.</b><b>Um, and then for his</b><b>middle school, but he didn't do.</b><b>Travel.</b><b>But he, he showed an interest and we, we</b><b>hired that one dude to teach him how to</b><b>pitch or something up in New Jersey.</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>That was, yeah, that was for pitching, but</b><b>that was all we did with him.</b><b>But our daughter, it was</b><b>starting to get prevalent.</b><b>She played travel soccer.</b><b>That was a whole thing.</b><b>Um, so we were in the</b><b>travel soccer world for a while.</b><b>So, and she was born in 2000.</b><b>So I feel like, I feel like it's more of</b><b>those, that's when it really picked up.</b><b>I really took off.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's more like the early 2000s.</b><b>And then now it's just, it's crazy now.</b><b>It's wild though.</b><b>Like if we've got a, you know,</b><b>there's a few nice parks here.</b><b>We're in South Florida.</b><b>So the weather is always nice.</b><b>Say if I go over, we go over and throw a</b><b>lacrosse ball or something at the park.</b><b>There's guys there working on their</b><b>dropback to be a quarterback.</b><b>They're working on footwork.</b><b>Right.</b><b>It's crazy.</b><b>There's people there kicking field goals.</b><b>There's soccer kids there, you know, doing</b><b>penalty or corner kicks, you know,</b><b>to try to all that stuff.</b><b>It's cool, but it is wild, especially, you</b><b>know, you can relate to the</b><b>Jersey thing, me growing up there.</b><b>That wasn't a thing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You didn't have an</b><b>intense focus on this one thing.</b><b>No, not at all.</b><b>No, no.</b><b>Or these kids are specializing.</b><b>It's cool, but it's wild.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, and that's great if you can be</b><b>that, you want to be that guy, but I think</b><b>overall, yeah, you just want to be</b><b>well-rounded and</b><b>enjoy, you know what I mean?</b><b>Um, so I want, I wanted to go back.</b><b>You moved a lot out of</b><b>all the states you lived in.</b><b>Is there one that you favored or that you</b><b>have really strong memories</b><b>from that time period?</b><b>Cause you were in Indiana, you were in</b><b>Louisiana, you were in Jersey.</b><b>That's a great question.</b><b>It's got multiple different ways to answer</b><b>that because I think, oh, I don't</b><b>remember the Michigan, Indiana, you know, I</b><b>was young, but I think we moved to</b><b>Louisiana when I was four or five.</b><b>So I can remember things about Louisiana in</b><b>the later sixties that impacted me</b><b>greatly.</b><b>So I remember that as a young kid, having</b><b>some major influences, nothing to do with</b><b>sports or stuff like that at the time, but</b><b>it was a big difference from the</b><b>Midwest going to Baton Rouge, Louisiana.</b><b>What were some of the things?</b><b>There was a lot of racism and I can</b><b>remember, and it ended up being</b><b>because I have to say this properly.</b><b>The way that my parents walked me through</b><b>it, the school that I went to, which was</b><b>a Catholic school, was able to educate you</b><b>on what's right and what's wrong.</b><b>And, you know, there was</b><b>buses that were white and black.</b><b>There was restaurants</b><b>that were white and black.</b><b>And, you know, people didn't treat various</b><b>races to black folks.</b><b>Well, and I can remember</b><b>it being really a bad thing.</b><b>And that hurt because you didn't want</b><b>anybody else to feel a bad thing.</b><b>So I'm glad that I was left with that by</b><b>through my parents, that there's</b><b>absolute no room for this.</b><b>And to see it, it just, you know, I can</b><b>just remember, you know, people talking</b><b>down to a man who's got</b><b>a son in front of him.</b><b>And I could think of that today and it</b><b>would just be, it's,</b><b>it's, no room for that.</b><b>So not a great thing, but coming away from</b><b>that experience and Baton Rouge taught me</b><b>to, you know, I'm not going to, I don't</b><b>want to be that person.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause how old were you during those years?</b><b>Probably six to maybe eight.</b><b>Those are formative years.</b><b>Formative years.</b><b>So that was something that you carried with</b><b>you for the rest of your life.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>To this day.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>To this day.</b><b>It's a pivotal moment.</b><b>Pivotal moment.</b><b>So, so I have such fun.</b><b>I mean Baton Rouge was cool and it was just</b><b>different, you know, it was LSU.</b><b>So I can remember the first football game I</b><b>ever went to with my dad, LSU old man.</b><b>So there's that in Baton Rouge.</b><b>Um, and then I really, you know,</b><b>Wilmington, Delaware seems to be a little</b><b>stop off for us, you know?</b><b>So can't remember too much except for</b><b>living near a school and it was fabulous</b><b>fun, New Jersey was outstanding.</b><b>So you were, you were,</b><b>um, more a teenager, what?</b><b>70s mid seventies.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>So were you into music?</b><b>You know, no rhythm, no, I loved, I think</b><b>our generation has some of the green</b><b>out that, you know what I mean?</b><b>The band, you guys know.</b><b>Um, so I was into it that way, but you</b><b>know, I couldn't dance.</b><b>My rhythm was poor, uh, no musical</b><b>aptitude, but huge appreciation and</b><b>surprisingly good at knowing what's good.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But nothing related to.</b><b>Talent.</b><b>Did you go see live music?</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>So what were some of the bands you saw?</b><b>Bob Seger, super tramp, Bruce</b><b>Springsteen, that kind of thing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Did you see Led Zeppelin?</b><b>Never saw Led Zeppelin in college.</b><b>There was a lot of, uh, country rock, you</b><b>know, Marshall Tucker, Neil Young.</b><b>What about Leonard Skinner?</b><b>Leonard Skinner, Tom Petty.</b><b>Um, all my brothers, all my brothers.</b><b>You see all of these?</b><b>Um, I didn't see the almond brothers.</b><b>I saw three of the four weeks discussed.</b><b>Um, yeah, they would come</b><b>in, you know, we lived there.</b><b>Uh, we were close to Charlottesville.</b><b>So you'd get a lot of good stuff coming</b><b>into Charlottesville.</b><b>I think it was only 45 minutes away.</b><b>So you saw a lot of these bands, um, in</b><b>their prime or as they were just starting.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>If they're coming to college, they came to</b><b>your college or I go up into</b><b>Charlottesville and they'd had, but yeah, I</b><b>think it was, I forget who it was.</b><b>Uh, 38 special and, and, and I think Neil</b><b>Young and you know, it</b><b>was a local type of thing.</b><b>And Charlottesville is a major stop.</b><b>It's a major stop.</b><b>I think that's where a lot of it was.</b><b>So would you see them in</b><b>big venues or in like a bar?</b><b>Um, big, bigger venues, bigger venue, you</b><b>know, and then going back home into</b><b>Maryland for, you know, summer or for</b><b>breaks and stuff, we'd cruise into the,</b><b>you know, DC and the Capitol center.</b><b>That's where I, you know, Salt Lake</b><b>Springs, Dean and some of the, but it's</b><b>all in that prime, you know, like for us,</b><b>cause we were born in 71.</b><b>So we're into that music, but it, for us,</b><b>it was looking back on that.</b><b>There was, and, and we have been able to</b><b>see some of those bands live, but</b><b>it's not in their</b><b>prime, if that makes sense.</b><b>So I've always, um, with the original</b><b>members, I just have always been</b><b>envious of people who were, and probably</b><b>kids that are older, like would be</b><b>envious if we were able to see maybe</b><b>Nirvana or Pearl Jam in their prime.</b><b>Cause that's when we were in</b><b>our twenties, early twenties.</b><b>But, um, I just think that's</b><b>that timeframe and music, I don't</b><b>think has been replicated since.</b><b>Feels that way.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>My kids are listening to it.</b><b>Other people, you know, are there doing</b><b>remakes of those songs?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But was that good time?</b><b>I mean, you're 10 years younger.</b><b>You said, okay, so was that Nirvana, all</b><b>that stuff was good stuff going to see.</b><b>I mean, do you feel like you miss something</b><b>or you feel you still had a good ride?</b><b>At the time we, the grunge movement came</b><b>when we were 23, 22, 23, 24.</b><b>We missed it.</b><b>We didn't see the seed those bands live</b><b>because we got married and started</b><b>having kids and we were busy doing that.</b><b>But, um, we, that whole thing that was</b><b>going on, it was happening</b><b>when we were in our early twenties.</b><b>And so the discovery of that music, like we</b><b>were hearing it live on the radio</b><b>for the first time, you know, where kids</b><b>now look back on that.</b><b>Like it'd be like hearing Led Zeppelin on</b><b>the radio for the first time.</b><b>Like, so even though we didn't see Nirvana,</b><b>we didn't see Pearl Jam.</b><b>We're also huge dead heads.</b><b>Got it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So when we could see somebody live, we had</b><b>the time we went and saw the dead</b><b>and then, or dead cover</b><b>bands or almond brothers.</b><b>We saw the almond brothers at</b><b>the beacon in New York city.</b><b>We used to go do that once a year.</b><b>Crosby stills in Nash</b><b>and Young, Neil Young.</b><b>Um, I saw Stephen Ray</b><b>Vaughan before he died.</b><b>So that's that, that I</b><b>feel really lucky about that.</b><b>I think we, we were the tail end of that</b><b>where they were probably still the</b><b>original members and they were still good,</b><b>but they had aged a little bit.</b><b>And then, then that whole grunge scene came</b><b>on the scene and music did change.</b><b>We saw Bob Dylan.</b><b>We saw Santana, all that.</b><b>So that's why our son's</b><b>name is Dylan after Bob Dylan.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then you see that movie, which was just</b><b>mind blowing recently.</b><b>Did you see it yet?</b><b>You guys know, but it's Timothy Shallow me.</b><b>I think it plays him.</b><b>Amazing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I want to see.</b><b>That's all I can say.</b><b>And that music, you know, that, that, that,</b><b>that thing going really</b><b>training, he was the transition point.</b><b>As you know, from that folk</b><b>kind of, yes, go see that movie.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Phenomenal.</b><b>No, I want to see it.</b><b>Dylan movie.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Timothy Shallow.</b><b>Maybe I think plays an amazing.</b><b>Really?</b><b>Fabulous.</b><b>See it in a theater as</b><b>opposed to if you can.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, what's coming up?</b><b>What is, what's the date?</b><b>There's that dead movie</b><b>that's coming out in the theaters.</b><b>So we go that they'll</b><b>do, what do they call it?</b><b>The night at the theater.</b><b>Grateful dead night at the</b><b>theater or something like that.</b><b>And it's all around the country on this one</b><b>night, all there's theaters</b><b>in every town that plays and they do it and</b><b>they pick a different.</b><b>Um, it's cool.</b><b>So it's cool.</b><b>So we go as a family.</b><b>So, but anyways, I just think that's,</b><b>that's cool that you were able to really</b><b>go see a lot of these bands live.</b><b>And just experiencing the music.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, you were talking about the dead.</b><b>You got a lot of credit to them because a</b><b>lot of the kids at college</b><b>were going to see the dead.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So they, they, they</b><b>endured, they persevered.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause what years, uh,</b><b>would college have been.</b><b>80 to 84.</b><b>For college for you.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Was 80 to 84.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>And they were going to dead shows.</b><b>They were going to dead shows.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And that's that early 80s.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I know that.</b><b>There was a bunch, you know, cause yeah.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>One of my favorite shows.</b><b>I went to RFK in DC and saw the dead there.</b><b>I'm sure some of my friends might've been</b><b>there because you know, you</b><b>don't just go to one or two.</b><b>No.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause that was, um, Brent Keith and Brent,</b><b>those years Keith and Brent on the piano.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>We're getting sidetracked with music, which</b><b>we do have a question though.</b><b>I want to go back to your Louisiana days.</b><b>Sure.</b><b>So I've always known you as a kind, giving</b><b>open-minded person and a nice guy as well.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Does that experience in Louisiana, how much</b><b>does that intersay your lens today?</b><b>And part of the question I have is when you</b><b>were there as a little guy, did you</b><b>know it was wrong that what you were seeing</b><b>and the parents helped you make</b><b>sense of it, or did they explain to you?</b><b>This isn't right.</b><b>That makes sense.</b><b>It does.</b><b>Um, to answer your question, it defined me</b><b>to be honest, and I'm appreciative.</b><b>And you know, I don't mean that that makes</b><b>me better than any thing.</b><b>I'm just saying that absolutely defined me.</b><b>And yes, my parents helped</b><b>me, but I knew it was wrong.</b><b>And I remember the look on the kid's face</b><b>when they're chastising some man</b><b>who's not the same color in it.</b><b>And so, yeah.</b><b>So, so I was the beneficiary of being able</b><b>to see it, but not having to be the</b><b>person to experience and that</b><b>it never should be that way.</b><b>So, so yeah, it was very, very fortunate</b><b>that, that, that I was able to see it</b><b>that way because some people don't.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, um, yeah.</b><b>So that was a huge, huge thing.</b><b>And, you know, when you look back at</b><b>blessings in life, I think that helped</b><b>all our family, you know?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, that makes sense.</b><b>Does that time being there sing?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Makes sense.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And we moved enough to know</b><b>that there are differences.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's not right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So no, that's that's again, like I said,</b><b>just such a pivotal moment in your life.</b><b>Totally.</b><b>And again, wish it never happened, but</b><b>couldn't be more thankful because, you</b><b>know, if everybody was just treating people</b><b>right, you know, I know it sounds,</b><b>you know, yeah, okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But I mean, that's what</b><b>you, it's as simple as that.</b><b>It really is.</b><b>Isn't it?</b><b>Really is.</b><b>It really, it really is.</b><b>A lot of things complicated.</b><b>So media platforms, things</b><b>we have, but T to the core.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's that simple.</b><b>It's that simple.</b><b>So when you were in</b><b>college, what did you study?</b><b>Uh, it was like a marketing</b><b>major and a minor in economics.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And at that time, as you're going through</b><b>school, did you know what you wanted to do?</b><b>Or were you just, I'm interested in this.</b><b>So I'll get a degree in this.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I think that I've always</b><b>that type of guy sales guy.</b><b>I mean, I didn't know I was</b><b>going to be a sales guy, but I was</b><b>a sales guy, but I didn't see me being</b><b>engineering or have technical skills.</b><b>That led me down that path.</b><b>My sister was super smart valedictorian</b><b>three year high school, three year</b><b>university in Maryland, you know?</b><b>Smarter than us.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>My brother engineer, smart, that kind of</b><b>thing, you know, but they, you know, they</b><b>weren't doing the same things I did as far</b><b>as with the social life.</b><b>So did your younger</b><b>siblings take more after you?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>My sister went to Madison.</b><b>Which was kind of cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And we did there together.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>She came a year or two</b><b>after, but it was cool.</b><b>It was very cool.</b><b>You got to party with your sister.</b><b>A little bit.</b><b>I think she thinks I did a little more</b><b>than, you know, I think she was a little</b><b>more smart about I was everywhere doing</b><b>everything with everybody.</b><b>And she was, knew a lot of people.</b><b>I had a lot of friends, but she was also</b><b>focused on being smart.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And what about your younger brother?</b><b>He's great.</b><b>I think he went to West</b><b>Virginia for a couple of years.</b><b>Oh, that's a fun school.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then I forget where he graduated from</b><b>for two years, but he played football</b><b>and not in college, but at high school, we</b><b>saw high school quarterbacks.</b><b>He was my younger brother.</b><b>So they kind of were</b><b>more like loose, like you.</b><b>So you're older too, were</b><b>a little more responsible.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then you kind of broke them all.</b><b>That's exactly what, were you the</b><b>corruptive force or were just, yeah.</b><b>And you know what?</b><b>I think, you know, the good things you get</b><b>in life that some people just have this,</b><b>you know, they're calm and</b><b>control and they come off.</b><b>I've been, I'm pretty hyper.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I don't mean that in a</b><b>bad way, but I'm excited.</b><b>I want to be in and I'm nonstop.</b><b>My parents would be just like, I'm tired</b><b>and not so much in a bad way.</b><b>But you know, back to what about talking</b><b>about my sister, especially when</b><b>the kids were younger, I think that she</b><b>became some of that because she</b><b>had to be responsible and she was, and you</b><b>know, we're thankful that she was.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That makes sense.</b><b>But at the same time,</b><b>I'm glad I wasn't first.</b><b>Cause we, yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>After school or after dinner, when you're</b><b>15 years old, 13 years old, 16 years old,</b><b>some of the best times of the life.</b><b>So yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You said you went five years, which, um, in</b><b>college, which I don't think back</b><b>then was like now that's so typical kids</b><b>just try to go five years actually.</b><b>But back then it was four and a half.</b><b>Remember I said, yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So that's where it is.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So I was wondering, where</b><b>did that extra year come from?</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So when you graduated, did you know, did</b><b>you have a job already set?</b><b>You know what?</b><b>That's a great question because it turned</b><b>into this met another, my best friend,</b><b>John LeNan, who happens to be the high</b><b>school guy, matter of fact, when I moved,</b><b>it was hard.</b><b>You mentioned earlier</b><b>about moving stuff, 10th grade.</b><b>That was a little tough.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Took me under his wing pretty much.</b><b>So became best of friends still are today.</b><b>So yeah, absolutely.</b><b>So he helped me with, um, the high school</b><b>acclimation and bringing me in to the.</b><b>The group that, you know, the sports people</b><b>and that, you know, it was, you</b><b>know, that's really cool.</b><b>Yeah, it is cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>What's that Matthew McConaughey movie that</b><b>they do where they're all in high</b><b>school, and confused, and confused.</b><b>That was 100% us more on the booze side</b><b>than the other side, but that's what it was</b><b>like.</b><b>So dazed and confused is pretty accurate.</b><b>Pretty accurate.</b><b>That's one of my favorite.</b><b>We love that movie.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's again, you know, we were athletes, so</b><b>there wasn't as much of, you know, uh,</b><b>marijuana at the time and</b><b>they're not anti at all.</b><b>Trust me, ran into that in college and his</b><b>grade, but we were, that was, but</b><b>keg parties in the field,</b><b>keg parties at the reservoir.</b><b>What about the fashion from that movie?</b><b>Pretty accurate.</b><b>Pretty accurate.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And the cars.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>I had a Dodge Challenger.</b><b>Oh, nice.</b><b>Oh, he's so classic.</b><b>You guys, it was again, not everything's</b><b>always perfect by any means, but boy,</b><b>that's, that's sure how I remember that.</b><b>What color?</b><b>Um, it was white when I bought it from a</b><b>guy, I'll never forget it.</b><b>Beautiful car.</b><b>He had painted the San</b><b>Francisco Bay bridge on the car.</b><b>So here I am 17 years old and</b><b>it was called the San Franciscan.</b><b>No way.</b><b>And I ended up painting over it because you</b><b>know, but at the same time,</b><b>you got it, you know, it</b><b>was a hearse pistol grip.</b><b>Those are all those again, even the</b><b>climbing, I'm so surprised that I'm.</b><b>Survived.</b><b>They were fast and dangerous.</b><b>They didn't handle</b><b>well, but you could go fast.</b><b>You could go fast.</b><b>We were lucky enough to have some of those</b><b>cars still around when like we got</b><b>into high school, like my buddy had an old</b><b>Camaro, my best friend's brother</b><b>had the Smokey and the</b><b>bandit Trans Am get a blue one.</b><b>We're driving down the Parkway once in New</b><b>Jersey doing like 85, 90 miles an hour.</b><b>He floors it and we</b><b>spun out racing, racing.</b><b>Uh, what are, what's one of</b><b>those other crazy muscle cars?</b><b>I can't remember.</b><b>Like a Camaro or</b><b>Mustangs or something like that.</b><b>Gran Torino.</b><b>No, something like that.</b><b>Did you have an eight track?</b><b>Oh, that's what it started with.</b><b>And then it went to cassette.</b><b>I think right about that time.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>But you did, you did have the</b><b>eight track before you went.</b><b>That was such a small part, but I do</b><b>remember like in the middle of the song</b><b>clicking over.</b><b>So yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's cool.</b><b>The days that confused is authentic.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It was the big thing.</b><b>You know, after Friday night sporting</b><b>event, everybody went, whether it was</b><b>football, wrestling, basketball, and you</b><b>know, you'd go to the reservoir.</b><b>Oh God, this was great.</b><b>And you just like how many cakes?</b><b>Depending upon what was going on or the</b><b>time of year, cause you know,</b><b>winter little bit different.</b><b>But, um, uh, you know,</b><b>and they were good kids.</b><b>There wasn't a lot of bad</b><b>things, but you were very fortunate.</b><b>Cause I think right when I was, uh, either</b><b>graduating or in high schools,</b><b>when they started, you know, the drinking</b><b>and driving wasn't smart.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Wasn't smart.</b><b>You know, I picked up in</b><b>earnest by the time we got there.</b><b>Actually wasn't the drinking age lower for,</b><b>did, were you like 18?</b><b>18.</b><b>Because of accidents.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They moved it up to 21 relatively quickly.</b><b>So did you experience, were you able to</b><b>drink when you were 18</b><b>before they moved it up?</b><b>Yes.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So you were a part of that</b><b>and then they moved it up.</b><b>Not that that stopped you from drinking,</b><b>but they moved it up.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Cause we've never, we've only known 21.</b><b>So you were there when</b><b>that whole transition.</b><b>It's smart that they did</b><b>that because of maturity.</b><b>But I also realized if you can go to war</b><b>and fight and do all these things,</b><b>who am I to judge, but from a safety</b><b>standpoint, I think we're all very</b><b>you know, sometimes you're just fortunate.</b><b>But if you're one of the unlucky ones and</b><b>make a mistake, that's a bummer</b><b>because you don't want</b><b>that to happen to anybody.</b><b>But I mean, you guys, we would have people,</b><b>you know, those little</b><b>consoles they had and</b><b>they were bigger consoles.</b><b>I mean, you know, just for you, like</b><b>nowadays you put your keys.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I mean, they'd have ice in them and you'd</b><b>have your beers in them.</b><b>And it was days confused you guys.</b><b>Like roadies were normal</b><b>just to bring a roadie.</b><b>Everyone had a beer.</b><b>Everyone had a beer.</b><b>There wasn't liquor.</b><b>I can't remember until really later in</b><b>college, quite frankly,</b><b>but it was the beer.</b><b>Everyone had a beer.</b><b>We caught the tail end of that.</b><b>We still got exposure to that.</b><b>But by then there was a lot more of moms</b><b>against strong drive and bad.</b><b>Do I get keg parties and stuff?</b><b>Oh yeah, we did.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We were in the field.</b><b>Like you'll see Jen Exers talk about, you</b><b>know, our parents thought we were</b><b>spending the night at someone's house and</b><b>we were passed out in a field somewhere.</b><b>So we had that experience, you know, with</b><b>kegs and we did more houses.</b><b>You guys did more houses.</b><b>And we had house parties too, but we did</b><b>out because I grew up in Oregon.</b><b>So there were fields, there were like</b><b>timber fields or forests, you know, you</b><b>could go and, but we did</b><b>have house parties too.</b><b>But you grew up in a rural</b><b>area, but it was a smaller town.</b><b>So I think the cops were more on you guys.</b><b>If you were in a field,</b><b>they would have found you guys.</b><b>There were cul-de-sac.</b><b>So I think where I grew up, where I used to</b><b>play in streams and woods,</b><b>it's all houses now.</b><b>So they were building it all back then.</b><b>So you go up to a dead end.</b><b>We had party balls back then.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Or we'd go to like the clan or the, you</b><b>know, have just that beer or whatever,</b><b>but people's houses, local kids, you know,</b><b>local kids who would be in a band.</b><b>That was fun stuff.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Now those, those were the days.</b><b>That's great stuff.</b><b>Great.</b><b>So you were talking about your friend</b><b>though, that took you under his wing.</b><b>Did he,</b><b>Well, so he took me under his wing.</b><b>Um, I, uh, the other roommate who was in</b><b>New Yorker, who's Wayne Hall,</b><b>best friend as well to this day, we talked</b><b>twice a week, at least.</b><b>So when we, he graduated probably a half a</b><b>year or so before me and went and, uh,</b><b>worked for, uh, at the time</b><b>they sold like software to schools.</b><b>You know, it was the time where the</b><b>computers just like the Apple just got</b><b>developed and all these types of things.</b><b>That was like 84, 85, 86.</b><b>That's exactly correct.</b><b>So I went up there and we did a lot of</b><b>technology for years.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And it was great lived at</b><b>his house the first year.</b><b>Um, this is post college post college.</b><b>You lived with these guys in the city?</b><b>Um, no, outside of the city</b><b>in Huntington, Long Island.</b><b>Oh, in Long Island.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Long Island.</b><b>And then, so what'd you do for your job?</b><b>We ended up starting a software services</b><b>company called forest systems.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>And it went really well for a lot of years.</b><b>Um, at one point had up to 50 people and we</b><b>ended up having some issues on</b><b>selling hardware products because a lot of</b><b>it was based upon chips.</b><b>And at the time memory</b><b>chips fluctuate like that.</b><b>So that wasn't the good business to be in.</b><b>So I vested ourselves from that little bit</b><b>painful to be quite honest, but we</b><b>had a services entity entity where we did a</b><b>bunch of cabling and we'd put bodies on</b><b>site.</b><b>Yeah, that's money.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So, so that happened.</b><b>I think we did this for 12 years.</b><b>And at that point it was, you weren't</b><b>making what you wanted to make.</b><b>It wasn't going to be the dream come true</b><b>that you wanted, although it provided</b><b>well for a lot of years.</b><b>And at that time, people that we met in the</b><b>field, uh, either selling products</b><b>to, or becoming part of the industry is</b><b>when my life changed in such a great way</b><b>from career wise, I went to work for Cisco</b><b>systems when they first started</b><b>getting wind under their wing.</b><b>So here I am, I'm thirties and I'm in a,</b><b>I've got a global job working out a</b><b>Penn Plaza Madison</b><b>square garden service in.</b><b>Wall street service and financial things,</b><b>learning from a company that, you know,</b><b>had this leader, John Chambers, who was</b><b>just an incredible businessman and bought</b><b>companies and did acquisitions better than</b><b>anybody, at least that I've ever come</b><b>across.</b><b>And I'm sure there's a bunch of success</b><b>stories, rightfully so, but he was known</b><b>in the industry.</b><b>So he would always acquire these companies,</b><b>build them into the mix.</b><b>And Cisco went off like a rocket ship.</b><b>What, what years, uh,</b><b>when was that nineties?</b><b>Yes, that was 96.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>They did blow up then.</b><b>They had bought a communications company, a</b><b>France company that had this telephone</b><b>line.</b><b>So it was the first time, uh, there was</b><b>competition to companies like Avaya,</b><b>Brian, and I know, you know, Cisco's</b><b>phones, but I mean, it's turned into, you</b><b>know, they bought a computing platform, um,</b><b>you know, and now they're, they're,</b><b>they're servers are, you know, they're</b><b>right up there with some of the biggies.</b><b>So I was able to see and experience that</b><b>and then allowed me to travel because I</b><b>was in New York city.</b><b>I was able to service accounts that had a</b><b>lot of, you know, meat on the bone.</b><b>So we got to California or several times a</b><b>year, give them executive briefings,</b><b>take them up to Napa Valley, um, have the</b><b>wife come out on the tail end.</b><b>It was, it was wonderful.</b><b>And then very, very fortunate to become a</b><b>global account manager.</b><b>So I was able for like six,</b><b>eight years, travel the world.</b><b>So just to go back.</b><b>So you guys start this software company,</b><b>which I'm still like, that's so cool</b><b>that you did that right out of college.</b><b>Um, really like this is</b><b>all kind of new, right?</b><b>In the seven late seventies, mid late</b><b>seventies and early eighties, this</b><b>whole computer it stuff is new, right?</b><b>So you're right there.</b><b>And then you said you, for</b><b>the next 12 years, you handled a</b><b>business that handled cabling.</b><b>Well, that was just a</b><b>component of one of the services.</b><b>It was like, we would get bodies and they</b><b>would come in and train</b><b>people on how to use, like, if you can</b><b>remember, and you're 10 years younger,</b><b>but it's like the first time, like</b><b>everything was Lotus one, two, three.</b><b>If you remember that.</b><b>And it was at the time the</b><b>multi-mator word perfect.</b><b>So these software packages came out that</b><b>revolutionized everything.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>It went from, uh, the green screen, as</b><b>everybody calls it, the black</b><b>screen with the white text back then.</b><b>It was green text.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Then you're what they're describing is that</b><b>that shift from that to actual</b><b>windows and a mouse and a keyboard.</b><b>You were a part of that.</b><b>Part of that.</b><b>So you would sell that software.</b><b>Correct.</b><b>So you'd go to businesses and they would</b><b>have that traditional black screen</b><b>with the green, right.</b><b>And yeah, when you type, right in my</b><b>picture in this room, because I'm not</b><b>it, so you're talking</b><b>about, yeah, through osmosis.</b><b>Sometimes I understand</b><b>what things he's saying.</b><b>Um, and then you would say, look at this,</b><b>look at this amazing software</b><b>and what it can do.</b><b>And I, were people blown away, blown away.</b><b>Here's your email.</b><b>Right.</b><b>But you're, you were pre-email.</b><b>That was the email, the foray into email.</b><b>Cause was, what did</b><b>that software have emails?</b><b>Did it introduce email?</b><b>It didn't know what we're saying is the</b><b>green screen, no email.</b><b>It was just right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Then there was probably some messaging app,</b><b>but it wasn't nearly as</b><b>sophisticated and simple as 100%.</b><b>Wasn't like, you know, these word</b><b>processors or, or spreadsheets that, you</b><b>know, accountants used</b><b>to pencil and calculators.</b><b>So I look back and it was so good.</b><b>And, you know, I've been very fortunate,</b><b>but at the same time, you know, made</b><b>some mistakes because we could really</b><b>capitalize if we would have not been.</b><b>Four guys that got together and started a</b><b>business that all just said, grow,</b><b>grow, grow, give credit to people.</b><b>Trust all these things that you need in a,</b><b>like the business that, that I</b><b>work for nowadays, that Brian's aware of</b><b>the, the leader and his partner,</b><b>um, the partners, uh, a</b><b>very good accountant, CFO.</b><b>We needed things like that</b><b>because at that time you guys, there</b><b>was so much great opportunity.</b><b>If you remember why 2k and everybody was so</b><b>concerned that when that clock went</b><b>from 99 to 2000, that</b><b>your systems didn't work.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So people spent a fortune</b><b>to upgrade their billions.</b><b>Billions.</b><b>And we were the recipients of that.</b><b>No, that's good.</b><b>No question.</b><b>So you were, you were out there selling</b><b>software so, so that people could, um,</b><b>be confident that their whole system wasn't</b><b>going to fail once it went from</b><b>1999 to 2000, there was a mix of, uh, at</b><b>that time, what became popular just</b><b>prior to that was the local area network.</b><b>So what that meant is that people were now</b><b>connected to one another via</b><b>computers and it was all wired.</b><b>There was no wireless.</b><b>But if you can imagine the gain in</b><b>productivity from going from single</b><b>computers and they're only just single</b><b>computers, so you didn't really share</b><b>anything unless you gave someone a floppy</b><b>disk or some of those things.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And it went to connected.</b><b>So it was steps along the way, but it was</b><b>really big because businesses got a lot</b><b>more effective and</b><b>efficient leveraging technology.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So you had the body shop setting up lands</b><b>and then the Y2K stuff.</b><b>Y2K stuff was amazing in terms of money</b><b>because everyone was nervous and they</b><b>would hire people.</b><b>You were probably putting people on site to</b><b>go through old software code, the</b><b>green screen code line by line to make sure</b><b>that it would handle four digits</b><b>instead of two.</b><b>That's really what it was all about.</b><b>Right.</b><b>It went from four, two digits, 99.</b><b>Everyone assumed 1900</b><b>and then it went to 2000.</b><b>That's the whole problem.</b><b>So they had people</b><b>going through lines of code.</b><b>I worked for a company.</b><b>They made tons of money.</b><b>And then once it happened</b><b>and it was this big dud, right?</b><b>There was this non-event.</b><b>They fired all those people in their stock</b><b>tank and they had to diversify.</b><b>Well, that's when the dot com</b><b>bomb, uh, uh, dot com blew up.</b><b>That's correct.</b><b>Yeah, that's exactly correct.</b><b>But did it, did, um, everything not fail</b><b>because of all this, um, because of the</b><b>steps that were taken.</b><b>So was it a dud?</b><b>A combo.</b><b>Actually, would you say it was a combo?</b><b>Cause there were some</b><b>truths to it, but a lot of fear.</b><b>You needed to do it because if you didn't</b><b>and it didn't work, you would have been,</b><b>you know, who wants to be that person that</b><b>didn't, didn't, didn't address an issue.</b><b>It was like a gamble.</b><b>It would be a gamble, but to Brian's point,</b><b>it might not have been near as</b><b>catastrophic as it was</b><b>sold, but catastrophic away.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Because one, you know,</b><b>budgets were available.</b><b>Yeah, totally.</b><b>So, so it was good.</b><b>And I worked for Cisco at that point in Y2K</b><b>and you know, everybody, yeah.</b><b>So, but anyway, prior to your question, we</b><b>were selling, you know, bodies to</b><b>train people, um, on these programs.</b><b>You actually were, I mean, it's fascinating</b><b>to think of that time in your</b><b>life, your, your generation where you guys</b><b>are on the forefront of that.</b><b>Someone your age, right?</b><b>So to go from that, I was just getting into</b><b>my career and I was at a company</b><b>that was doing that and then the.com, uh,</b><b>just, you know, the internet exploded and</b><b>being at Cisco for that, that's a straight</b><b>up trajectory, right?</b><b>And that's when chambers</b><b>was doing all that stuff.</b><b>Well, at one point they were the most</b><b>valued company in the world and it changed</b><b>quick cause you know,</b><b>there was a boat bust, right?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause they were all overvalued.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They were, you know, you only sell what</b><b>your revenue was this, your profit</b><b>system, but they were doing multipliers</b><b>that didn't make sense.</b><b>So there had to be a readjustment.</b><b>But Cisco at the time, they Cisco at the</b><b>time displaced a via phones,</b><b>Fujitsu phones, everybody you pick up a</b><b>phone, you watch TV now, all those phones</b><b>you see Cisco, you look at the white house</b><b>phone of when their president's</b><b>sitting in the, whatever the</b><b>oval offices, it's a Cisco phone.</b><b>So that brings me to, um, for listeners who</b><b>are not, um, know nothing about</b><b>technology, like let's</b><b>like, they know nothing.</b><b>How would you describe to</b><b>someone what Cisco does?</b><b>What is this?</b><b>A company that enables you to do business</b><b>in a very efficient and effective way.</b><b>And they do that by utilizing automation</b><b>and software programs that kind of like</b><b>what you're used to your</b><b>iPhone now is does everything.</b><b>So you can imagine that just prior to this,</b><b>if someone would call, there was a</b><b>voicemail, they'd get a sticky and they</b><b>would give that to you, but business</b><b>still moved because you got the message and</b><b>you responded to it, but there was</b><b>no connection and there</b><b>was no immediate response.</b><b>There was no, so I would say that Cisco</b><b>just provided all those kind of</b><b>infrastructure elements and software</b><b>systems, really operating systems, but</b><b>that enabled people to have software</b><b>programs on them that enabled you to do</b><b>things that you couldn't ever do before.</b><b>So businesses could do get into markets.</b><b>They didn't serve before businesses could</b><b>expand because it wasn't this big jump</b><b>to have to put a facility there.</b><b>You could have a location and</b><b>just you're connected to it.</b><b>So it really changed the playing field.</b><b>And I think Brian, correct me if I'm wrong,</b><b>because you're in the glass house</b><b>now, right?</b><b>The CIO really only got in the glass house</b><b>when all this happened, the chief</b><b>information officer used to be the, but</b><b>there was no, you know, the chief</b><b>operating officer, the chief executive, but</b><b>then all of a sudden it became that</b><b>important and the CIO in the later nineties</b><b>or maybe early 2000s, he was</b><b>sitting at the table</b><b>and that wasn't happening.</b><b>And that was around the Y2K time.</b><b>Do you think Y2K had a lot to do with it?</b><b>Probably.</b><b>With everything was there like, let's bring</b><b>this person needs to be just as</b><b>important as everyone else</b><b>because of what's going on.</b><b>So you were there at the</b><b>birth of so much of this.</b><b>Really?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Like you remember life before the internet.</b><b>And then you were there, which we do too.</b><b>But, um, professionally though, and then so</b><b>professionally, how had, how did your</b><b>career change as technology grew?</b><b>How did it affect your career?</b><b>Not just opportunity wise, but just, um,</b><b>hands on your daily life.</b><b>Like you were there when there was an</b><b>email, then there was email and all these</b><b>different things like</b><b>how did it affect you?</b><b>I think overall, and I may be unique to</b><b>some degrees because of the career path</b><b>that I took being a salesperson, but you</b><b>know how everybody used to have to, you</b><b>know, two hours in from the Island in New</b><b>York city, you needed to be at your office.</b><b>Technology allowed you, you didn't have to</b><b>be there as long as you were being</b><b>productive, so I could still help my wife</b><b>raise the kids and work out a home.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So that was key.</b><b>Um, but even more importantly, and again,</b><b>what a blessing to become a global</b><b>account manager, I serviced price water</b><b>house when they merged with Cooper</b><b>librarians.</b><b>So if you think about it now, they're,</b><b>they're all part of the big four, whatever</b><b>they are, big three down.</b><b>But it was two 75,000 person firms merging.</b><b>So they had locations and 152 countries.</b><b>So I'm the global account</b><b>manager for that account.</b><b>That was the auditor</b><b>did the books for Cisco.</b><b>So here I am, this guy, I get this job</b><b>where I'm flying around the world.</b><b>I have a global gateway account manager,</b><b>somebody that knew the language,</b><b>somebody that knew what's the right word,</b><b>the traditions and etiquette.</b><b>So I wouldn't, you know what I mean?</b><b>Oh, so you're saying as you went to</b><b>different countries, you had a companion</b><b>or a kind of a consultant to say, okay,</b><b>make sure to bow, take your shoes off here.</b><b>Like a culture or a culture.</b><b>And they called them global gateway.</b><b>Cause it was one for Europe.</b><b>There was one for Asia.</b><b>There was, it was.</b><b>So I mean, think</b><b>about, I'm able to hear him.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And that person loves it.</b><b>Cause here I am, I'm whatever.</b><b>And here's what's the</b><b>greatest thing about it.</b><b>So this is from my standpoint,</b><b>why I was so fortunate as well.</b><b>Cause financially that was great, but</b><b>because we sold to them millions and</b><b>millions and because they did Cisco's</b><b>books, it had to be, I learned how to you</b><b>ethical ethics where everything in John</b><b>Chambers would come into the street and</b><b>do our numbers every quarter.</b><b>And I got to sit in the back room when he</b><b>was going to different</b><b>accounts and help you sell.</b><b>So, and I don't want</b><b>to make more than that.</b><b>It is, but for several years, that man</b><b>would come in every quarter and most of</b><b>the times he'd, Oh,</b><b>let's go visit met life.</b><b>Let's go visit equitable.</b><b>And why it's interesting.</b><b>Cause I've never known that you, um, but</b><b>you've always spoken highly of him and</b><b>how you're just like, love him.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Like you've always spoken highly of him.</b><b>I've been an admirer of his as, as sort of</b><b>the client side, cause to your point,</b><b>this guy blew up tech, right?</b><b>He changed the world in terms</b><b>of just how the world works.</b><b>And, and you asked, how</b><b>would you describe Cisco?</b><b>I would say it's slightly</b><b>different from the client side.</b><b>They made the internet work.</b><b>The internet does not work without Cisco's</b><b>routers and switches.</b><b>And now it's their</b><b>telemetry, you know, voice stuff.</b><b>They got rid of the pots line for the most</b><b>part, other, you know, there's other</b><b>players there, but Cisco would have bought</b><b>them and, and made it better and</b><b>blew it up, but that explains to me now why</b><b>you're such a, you're why you're such</b><b>a fan of his, why you</b><b>look up to him so much.</b><b>He would come in, you're on these big</b><b>multimillion dollar accounts,</b><b>strategic accounts, global accounts.</b><b>He rolls in JD.</b><b>Let's go do this.</b><b>And you're kind of, he's your</b><b>he's helping you make it happen.</b><b>Well, honestly, he had people.</b><b>And yes, he would know my name, but</b><b>realistically, um, there was a, because</b><b>it was growing so big, everything was</b><b>orchestrated properly and he'd come</b><b>in, everything was set, but yeah, we, you</b><b>know, he'd go see accounts that I had.</b><b>Or again, you needed to, he was, why like</b><b>John chamber so much, he was a good man.</b><b>He was a good man.</b><b>And he put good people around.</b><b>And, you know, we were all talking about</b><b>how that internet blew up</b><b>yesterday with that, that couple.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>That would never happen in a John chamber.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I mean, think about cold play.</b><b>You've seen it, right?</b><b>So I see stuff about a week before.</b><b>Sometimes I'm like, have you seen it yet?</b><b>You know, that one hit the press.</b><b>She's the head of HR.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I mean, could it get any worse?</b><b>No.</b><b>I mean, the problem's not hers.</b><b>She's no, no, no, but I'm yeah.</b><b>I, oh, trust me.</b><b>But it blows up families.</b><b>It does.</b><b>No, it's terrible.</b><b>His wife had his last name</b><b>off her socials that morning.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I mean, you can't do</b><b>anything anymore, by the way.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's the other thing.</b><b>And that's where it really, well, now</b><b>what's funny is they've</b><b>been, I've seen on social</b><b>media, different like, um, Morgan Wallen</b><b>and, um, different musicians that are</b><b>playing live right now, the last few</b><b>nights, and they'll say,</b><b>okay, our camera's going</b><b>to go around.</b><b>So if you're here with your secretary,</b><b>separate and they're giving more like hope</b><b>ever, and then there's people at like</b><b>baseball games and men have signs that</b><b>say, this is my wife.</b><b>This is my sister.</b><b>So no, no, but you're right.</b><b>So because you've been there from the very</b><b>start and, um, have gone along the</b><b>journey of technology as it's grown, um,</b><b>from the aspect of a sales and sales.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, and you continue, I assume to go on</b><b>this journey and I, I'm assuming it</b><b>continues to challenge you.</b><b>And, um, you're always, you're kind of</b><b>always at a little bit of a learning</b><b>curve every few years.</b><b>Um, how, how would you, would you say that</b><b>that has helped you stay young at</b><b>heart and young in your mind because you're</b><b>always kind of plugged into what's going</b><b>on?</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>And that it's helped you feel still</b><b>connected with, um, the present day of</b><b>what's happening.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause you probably have to</b><b>know, I wouldn't say as much as like</b><b>Brian's and it he's more technical, but you</b><b>probably do have to know.</b><b>Almost as much in order to</b><b>be able to sell it, right?</b><b>Like you can't fix it if it breaks</b><b>necessarily, but you need to be able to</b><b>know a lot about what you're selling.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>I have good people around me, so I can't</b><b>really tell you that I'd be that guy</b><b>that knows all what's behind it.</b><b>But you know what?</b><b>And, and, and, you know, Brian chime in if</b><b>you, if you, cause I'd be</b><b>good to know, but I like to think that, you</b><b>know, when you appreciate people that</b><b>are buying from you and when you have this</b><b>relationship with them, where it's</b><b>mutually respectful, even though I'm</b><b>selling to them, it makes for this</b><b>partnership that you</b><b>really want your client to win.</b><b>And of course you will as a salesperson or</b><b>the company you're working for,</b><b>cause you're doing quality work.</b><b>So I've always just wanted to provide a</b><b>very good experience that goes long</b><b>term, because then you get</b><b>relationships with people.</b><b>You're spending a lot of time with folks</b><b>that aren't your family, your</b><b>after hours and things that are enjoyable.</b><b>But at the same time, you know, I still</b><b>understand my role as a salesman.</b><b>And, um, I look at that as</b><b>bringing the right resources and</b><b>making sure my client's good.</b><b>I do that more like a</b><b>quarterback than the technical side.</b><b>Cause honestly, why went to</b><b>college on the marketing side?</b><b>And why was hot that door?</b><b>I, I'm not that guy that can sit there and</b><b>go, yeah, you know, this</b><b>nano bite that talks to that.</b><b>And I do kind of understand a lot of way</b><b>that works because over time, but I'm</b><b>just like, where's my engineer?</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So a lot of people don't, there's a lot of</b><b>salesmen, there are a lot more</b><b>technical, for sure.</b><b>But you're probably more</b><b>knowledgeable than you realize.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>Cause I have adapted to, like you said,</b><b>changing technologies.</b><b>And I'm, and I see a lot of people my age</b><b>that, you know, not they fear it,</b><b>but they don't utilize it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But I mean, I love a lot of things that</b><b>video and audio on this phone and the</b><b>pictures I'm capturing of the family and</b><b>these things and how to message them or</b><b>it's fantastically powerful</b><b>when you really think about it.</b><b>So I won't be great about behind the</b><b>scenes, but I do understand to your point.</b><b>So as far as sales, um, you just described</b><b>a lot of the reasons why you</b><b>enjoy it, um, as far as the relationship</b><b>with your clients and, um, and that</b><b>you're coming with good intentions.</b><b>You're, you know, you're selling them</b><b>something that's going to truly help them.</b><b>You're not just selling to sell.</b><b>You're selling, you have a</b><b>meaning behind what you're selling.</b><b>There's meaning behind it selfishly too.</b><b>Of course.</b><b>Because you know what</b><b>it does if you do well.</b><b>Yeah, of course, of course, the family, but</b><b>you're selling with integrity.</b><b>And you know what I wouldn't be as</b><b>hopefully as good if there wasn't passion</b><b>behind what you're doing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>And I do see what you're saying because</b><b>some people it's just a job.</b><b>I, yeah, I look at it different.</b><b>Now I work for a person that I worked with</b><b>at Cisco, who's just a wonderful</b><b>man and built a great company.</b><b>Um, so there's that again, respect</b><b>relationship and delivering to your</b><b>client, good stuff, so it kind of feels</b><b>like been a win-win to your point.</b><b>There's, there's components</b><b>of that that need to be done.</b><b>Right.</b><b>So yeah, it has, I mean,</b><b>there's some authenticity to it.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>And you're proud.</b><b>You're proud of the business.</b><b>You're proud of what you're doing.</b><b>And that probably has contributed</b><b>significantly to your success because</b><b>people can see through</b><b>it if it's not that way.</b><b>I think you're correct.</b><b>So, you know, so is there also though for</b><b>yourself personally, um, do you</b><b>enjoy that hit of making the sale?</b><b>Totally.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Do you like to gamble?</b><b>No.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>That's so interesting because, um, our</b><b>older son is a salesman and he likes to</b><b>gamble, not in a bad way.</b><b>He doesn't have a problem, but he likes to</b><b>go with his friends, the casino and</b><b>stuff and, um, my father gamble, my great</b><b>grandfather, my grandfather.</b><b>And I think one of the reasons he enjoys</b><b>sales is because that hit is similar to</b><b>when you hit when you're gambling.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So I wondered, yeah, I've wondered if</b><b>salesman in general, like to also</b><b>gamble because it's like the same hit.</b><b>I've always wondered that and you've been</b><b>doing it for so many years.</b><b>So I didn't know if you, if you, or if</b><b>you've known other sales guys that like</b><b>to gamble, not as a problem, just for fun.</b><b>I understand your point.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I think people find</b><b>different, you know, entertainment.</b><b>That's that's all good.</b><b>I always looked at it that</b><b>you work too hard to risk that.</b><b>I bet.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I like the environment being around, but</b><b>now I'm at, and it might be also that I</b><b>don't sit still real good, like play board</b><b>games with family members or things</b><b>that are great to see I'm moving.</b><b>So you're, so have you always been like</b><b>that since you're a little kid?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So sports was good for you.</b><b>Great for me.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And yeah, sales would be like that, right?</b><b>Sales would be like that.</b><b>Next chase, that next thing, that next</b><b>thing that got back to when you</b><b>answer that question, did you</b><b>know what you're going to be?</b><b>No, but yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You knew you had to do</b><b>something with your hustle and moving.</b><b>And you, are you an extrovert?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Like you enjoy meeting new people and</b><b>talking to them no matter where you are.</b><b>No matter where.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So you have all the components.</b><b>I do.</b><b>And I've learned too.</b><b>Cause like I said,</b><b>I've been very fortunate.</b><b>Uh, my wife's family's dynamite.</b><b>There's a bunch of successful people in</b><b>there and I saw how they've interacted</b><b>with people I've been able, as I told you</b><b>to travel and see how they interacted</b><b>with people.</b><b>So I hope that we're doing that right.</b><b>But yeah, I'm definitely out there jumping</b><b>around and meet and greeting.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>When you were traveling, um, around the</b><b>globe, uh, for work, how, what countries</b><b>like, what would you say</b><b>were your top countries?</b><b>I love to reminisce on it.</b><b>Cause once I get closer to</b><b>retirement, I want to do more.</b><b>I was so lucky.</b><b>Um, that I was the type guy that when you</b><b>had meetings, there was always</b><b>be like a Thursday, Friday</b><b>and a next Wednesday, right?</b><b>You got these certain people</b><b>that would come in and out.</b><b>God bless them.</b><b>I get it.</b><b>I wasn't that guy.</b><b>I was, I'm going to do the right thing, but</b><b>at the same time, I'm going to see.</b><b>I'm here.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then, you know, a lot of the times,</b><b>because we had great, my wife's</b><b>family in particular, you</b><b>know, would help us with the kids.</b><b>My wife would join us on the</b><b>tail end and that was wonderful.</b><b>She loved to travel.</b><b>We love to travel together, but I'd have to</b><b>say Europe has always just been</b><b>phenomenal, you know, I love my, you know,</b><b>experiences in Asia, but, uh, I love</b><b>the field of history in Italy and France.</b><b>I love the comfort of</b><b>speaking English in England.</b><b>Not that a lot of other countries don't.</b><b>It's a lot of do, but I</b><b>just love that for some reason.</b><b>So Europe was where I felt most.</b><b>I love that.</b><b>But, um, seeing the other</b><b>cultures was, was great.</b><b>Cause it really made me feel that much more</b><b>boy, we're a great country.</b><b>We have, even though there's, there's bumps</b><b>and, uh, it was interesting.</b><b>Even all those years ago to hear people,</b><b>what they thought of as good and bad,</b><b>there was still like, you know what?</b><b>You guys are, you guys are something.</b><b>So do you feel that, um,</b><b>like, cause it feels like now.</b><b>There's a lot of America, America hate</b><b>America stuff outside of America.</b><b>But when you were traveling,</b><b>you're saying that, um, you</b><b>encountered more pro America.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But there was also negative.</b><b>If you guys remember that</b><b>show, like Dallas, yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So, you know, these things,</b><b>they play these things like that.</b><b>But like, if you go to a,</b><b>uh, Parisian restaurant, right.</b><b>And, you know, I can remember walking cause</b><b>I forgot, what a city.</b><b>Um, the people would snap their fingers for</b><b>a waiter and you never do that.</b><b>And you knew they were American and it just</b><b>means you're not being, or, and</b><b>the reason I bring Dallas cause you know,</b><b>they'd be sitting there and you know,</b><b>you'd have your boots up on the table.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>There's certain things etiquette wise.</b><b>You just don't do.</b><b>So I think they think</b><b>that there was some of that.</b><b>And because we were for lack of a better</b><b>word, but top dog, you know, a lot of me,</b><b>you know what I mean?</b><b>People would look for that, but I think</b><b>there was also a lot of respect and</b><b>especially if you</b><b>handled yourself properly.</b><b>And like I said, I was so fortunate to be</b><b>able to have a gateway account</b><b>manager and be like, listen, you know, you</b><b>wait, you turn, if you're going to sit</b><b>there and show them that you, you want the</b><b>bill real quick,</b><b>you're going to wait longer.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So, you know, it's cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Greatest country where</b><b>I would, I love Italy.</b><b>I think Italy is to catch me out of</b><b>countries and I'd like to gift.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Did you go?</b><b>So you did Europe, you did</b><b>Asia, did you go to China?</b><b>I didn't, I was never able to go to China.</b><b>I didn't get to Japan.</b><b>Want to do that, but a lot of, you know,</b><b>Vietnam and Thailand and Hong Kong,</b><b>Australia was a trip.</b><b>Whoa, God.</b><b>I love those people.</b><b>I've always wanted to go to Australia.</b><b>Oh, you guys on my list.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We need to do that.</b><b>I really want to go to Australia, you know?</b><b>And you know, it's well, what a country,</b><b>you know, I, obviously once you start</b><b>getting on the, what do you call that?</b><b>The Western side or, you</b><b>know, how Sydney and the coast.</b><b>You're on the stick side.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>The stick side.</b><b>I didn't do that per se, but I mean,</b><b>there's some crazy nature, but I mean,</b><b>oh my God, talk about just beautiful</b><b>environment and people that just</b><b>seem to get how to enjoy done right.</b><b>Cause they're all so</b><b>successful at what they do.</b><b>So that was, that was right up there too.</b><b>And you know, it's an English speaking and</b><b>again, not knowing other languages.</b><b>And God, I wish that's</b><b>one of the regrets I have.</b><b>I wish I learned languages.</b><b>Cause I think there's power in that.</b><b>Oh, absolutely.</b><b>But again, go in there</b><b>and being comfortable.</b><b>Cause again, there's</b><b>people in different countries.</b><b>France is a great example.</b><b>Unless you've got the right thing.</b><b>They don't, they really don't want to help</b><b>you out unless you're,</b><b>you know, making some effort,</b><b>which is, you can get by in, in</b><b>France with just English.</b><b>I found you can, I've been in Hong Kong and</b><b>even China, you can get by with English.</b><b>Yeah. Now there's tools that can help you.</b><b>But I mean, like if you're</b><b>that person that is being kind of.</b><b>Abrupt or rude.</b><b>Cap driver.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>He's going to act like</b><b>I don't understand you.</b><b>At least that's my experience.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So, so I just think again, it's just be</b><b>approach it properly and, and, you</b><b>know, be respectful cause you are in</b><b>somebody else's country.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Did you ever go to South America?</b><b>Um, you know, Latin</b><b>America, that's about it.</b><b>That's about it.</b><b>I have not made it down there.</b><b>We didn't do a lot of</b><b>business down there for some reason.</b><b>And it seemed like I was traveling on</b><b>behalf of Pricewaterhouse Cooper for</b><b>Cisco and they were much</b><b>larger in, uh, Europe and Asia.</b><b>What about Africa?</b><b>Never, never that, that'd be a dream too.</b><b>So how many years did</b><b>you do this traveling?</b><b>It's a long time.</b><b>It was wonderful.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Wonderful.</b><b>That is so cool.</b><b>So when, okay.</b><b>So you, you, we covered your, um, when you</b><b>graduated and you worked, but when</b><b>in there did you meet your wife?</b><b>I have one question really quick.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Cause I'm, I'm real curious on that front</b><b>too, but in terms of the sales approach,</b><b>you're, you started young right out of</b><b>college and what do you</b><b>think's changed for you over that time?</b><b>And I think what I was thinking is she was</b><b>asking you about your technical,</b><b>you know, are you technical?</b><b>Can you do it?</b><b>Have you always had the same approach or</b><b>when did it maybe kick off and evolve</b><b>to where you're really more client</b><b>relationship management more so than</b><b>I'm going to sell you something, right?</b><b>It's never, I've got this product.</b><b>I want you to buy it.</b><b>It's more like, how can I help?</b><b>What problems do you have?</b><b>What solutions can I bring you?</b><b>Right?</b><b>I think that's more your approach.</b><b>How long did it take before you got there?</b><b>What'd you say?</b><b>Great question.</b><b>Cause this will help your boy.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Being a relationship person,</b><b>I want to hang out with them.</b><b>They want to hang out with me.</b><b>So if you have a connection that, Hey,</b><b>whether it's you're going out,</b><b>you're taking them out or you're golfing or</b><b>you know, and again, there's</b><b>certain people that don't, you don't have</b><b>to have that kind of relationship.</b><b>But whatever that is, if you find a tie</b><b>that finds you're already at bat,</b><b>you're already on first, second base.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So I was always that guy was in play.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I'd hang out with people that were in play.</b><b>I'm not saying we were better than anybody,</b><b>you know, probably thought we</b><b>were, but the net of it is, is we just</b><b>were, it was great to meet people</b><b>and it was great to kind of connect.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So that's first.</b><b>And then second to your point over time,</b><b>Brian, you realize that only takes you</b><b>so far can be a door opener company.</b><b>You work for it can be a door opener, but</b><b>the reality is, is what's my value to them.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And that did take some time.</b><b>But I think that if what I know now, I wish</b><b>I would have known then was</b><b>understanding, like you said, take the time</b><b>to understand what's important to</b><b>your client and you know, before I would</b><b>be, you know, I'm not taking the time to</b><b>read somebody's financial things and</b><b>understanding where they're going.</b><b>And realistically that's powerful,</b><b>especially children nowadays, or excuse</b><b>me, young adults, there's so much</b><b>information out there.</b><b>You can Google things and find it.</b><b>Oh, by the way, I hear</b><b>you got this initiative.</b><b>I never knew those kinds of things.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So the value proposition is key, but I also</b><b>think where you really get good at</b><b>it, because no matter how good your company</b><b>is or no matter how it never seems</b><b>to rain, you're going to run into</b><b>situations where, you know, your company</b><b>or you or it was an act of God, but good</b><b>things didn't happen.</b><b>How you handle it then is more important</b><b>than how you handle it.</b><b>When everything's going great.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I think that's a, it's</b><b>actually a great point.</b><b>Even in the non sales world, right?</b><b>How you deal with adversity and treat the</b><b>people around you during those weird</b><b>times or just how you handle it really</b><b>starts to define you then more so than</b><b>when things are good, no doubt about it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's a great point.</b><b>How much would you say self-awareness comes</b><b>into play as a salesman?</b><b>A lot more than I gave it credit for.</b><b>And great that you bring that up because</b><b>that's probably a weakness of mine.</b><b>I kept going without evaluating.</b><b>It naturally happened that I think I got</b><b>better at what I did, but the</b><b>self-awareness, I didn't take time to, to</b><b>really go down that path.</b><b>You know, I would listen to people who'd</b><b>mentor and give me help, but I just</b><b>seem to be moving on and not really</b><b>evaluating unless it was, you know,</b><b>obviously critical or something like that.</b><b>But that's a, it's, it's good to think that</b><b>you could get yourself in a better</b><b>place by doing more of that.</b><b>But,</b><b>and then how much would</b><b>you say delusion helps?</b><b>And when I say that, I mean, fake it to</b><b>you, make it like just believe in yourself</b><b>and just go for it.</b><b>So it's like, I feel like it's a balance</b><b>between self-awareness and delusion</b><b>almost, because if you're too self-aware,</b><b>you can get analysis paralysis where you</b><b>um, you're like, I can't do it, you know,</b><b>or you think to overthink it, but then if</b><b>you, um, are too delusional, then you're</b><b>not going to, you're not authentic anymore.</b><b>Would you say that's accurate?</b><b>Like that balance of the two?</b><b>I think you're, yeah.</b><b>Does that make sense?</b><b>It does.</b><b>And you know, I have, again, really thought</b><b>too much about it, but since we're</b><b>talking about it, you're making a really</b><b>good point, because if you think about</b><b>that, that balance would make for a very</b><b>good rep, somebody that's willing to put</b><b>themselves in play, somebody evaluating</b><b>themselves to be smart.</b><b>And then, you know, what's interesting</b><b>about it, you can be lucky a lot too.</b><b>I got lucky inheriting account.</b><b>That was one of the biggest accounting</b><b>firms or what do they call them?</b><b>Consulting firms at that time.</b><b>And then being able to</b><b>work with a company leader.</b><b>So there's a lot of luck and luck.</b><b>You can put yourself in play.</b><b>Um, and that happens, but it's probably a</b><b>very good mix of that.</b><b>I didn't ever looked</b><b>at it that way as much.</b><b>And I probably could be</b><b>good because I really do.</b><b>I always look at myself and I think it was</b><b>a good sales rep, but not a great rep.</b><b>And it's not cause I'm not a really good</b><b>guy and I care cause</b><b>I'm a good quarterback,</b><b>but never took the time to keep.</b><b>How am I working day to day to get better?</b><b>The guy that I work for now, that's a</b><b>leader, but also a very good family friend.</b><b>He's good at, you know,</b><b>what's your pre call planning?</b><b>Did you sit there afterwards and then send</b><b>that follow up email?</b><b>And those ones that do it are good because</b><b>they're taking the time before and after</b><b>to really spend some time looking at what</b><b>they just did instead of moving on to next.</b><b>So I always moved on to next somewhat</b><b>successfully, rather successfully, but</b><b>the hitters would do the mix of the three</b><b>things that you just said, the, that, that</b><b>balance, the other thing too, though, where</b><b>you're going as well as that's an</b><b>entrepreneurial trait of</b><b>I'm going to go sell it.</b><b>And, and if I get it and I</b><b>land it and it's like, oh wow.</b><b>All right.</b><b>It happened.</b><b>Now let's make it happen.</b><b>So they're willing to</b><b>fake it a little bit, right?</b><b>I'm bigger than I'm going to let you think</b><b>I'm bigger than I really am.</b><b>And if you bite, I'm going</b><b>to make sure I make it happen.</b><b>And that's, that's right.</b><b>Cause if you don't, then you know, then</b><b>you're not that, yeah.</b><b>Cause there is risk in that, but there's</b><b>probably a bigger upside quite frankly.</b><b>Can't hesitate.</b><b>Cause then you create</b><b>doubt with your client, right?</b><b>And you're, you have to, you have to at</b><b>least appear you believe a hundred percent</b><b>in what you're selling without hesitation.</b><b>I'd be that guy that couldn't work for a</b><b>company that wasn't, you gotta deliver</b><b>those, you know, there's no question you</b><b>want a good product of good service being</b><b>delivered and you know,</b><b>don't, don't compromise.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>You know, because there are good companies</b><b>and you want to be with the good company</b><b>that makes good park,</b><b>but also great culture.</b><b>And then you, you know, then your life's</b><b>that much more enjoyable for sure.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Because would you say that, um, for a</b><b>salesman that wants to be truly successful,</b><b>they need to be working for a company they</b><b>believe in and that they enjoy.</b><b>And if they're working for a company that</b><b>they're miserable at, or they're not,</b><b>um, satisfied, it's going to, um, affect</b><b>their growth as a sales salesperson.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>But I think it also bleeds into other areas</b><b>that may be more important.</b><b>If you're not happy, how</b><b>does that help your health?</b><b>If you're not happy, how does that help</b><b>your relationship with your, your spouse?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>How's that help you with your kids?</b><b>So I think there's a, it's a, it's, you</b><b>know, it's a whole package deal type</b><b>of thing from my perspective.</b><b>I think you need to be healthy.</b><b>I think you need to be challenged.</b><b>I think you need to be, you know, and all</b><b>those kinds of things.</b><b>And it's not saying that's easy, but you</b><b>know, I don't want to be in a culture</b><b>where they're not paying it forward.</b><b>Do you know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I'm not saying you have to be, you</b><b>know, UNICEF or</b><b>they're even around anymore.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>But you get what I'm trying to say.</b><b>I absolutely do.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I just, you know, I want our company.</b><b>They pay it forward.</b><b>They do the right thing.</b><b>So in your experience, I'm sure you've come</b><b>across a lot of different sales people.</b><b>Have you encountered, um, salespeople that</b><b>their whole world is falling apart</b><b>personally, but they're</b><b>still out there grinding.</b><b>And, um, and you think that what's going on</b><b>personally has</b><b>affected them professionally.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>But really definitely, but</b><b>also the other way around.</b><b>In what way?</b><b>That you're saying they're still grinding.</b><b>I think that kind of caused it.</b><b>Do you know what I mean?</b><b>In other words, it's self-fulfilling.</b><b>It's self-fulfilling.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Give yourself, I mean,</b><b>why is that happening?</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, but, but yeah, absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, I have this kind of personality,</b><b>probably addictive, to be quite honest,</b><b>that served me well, and</b><b>also created some challenges.</b><b>So I'll see.</b><b>The reason I bring that up is because</b><b>you'll see sales reps that, you know,</b><b>they're not doing the right things, you</b><b>know, uh, eating too much, drinking too</b><b>much, staying out too much, putting their</b><b>selves in situations that aren't healthy.</b><b>And I understand you learn with age how to</b><b>make better decisions, but the net of</b><b>it is the ones that make bad decision in</b><b>those categories, it goes right down</b><b>the path you talk about.</b><b>They're not healthy.</b><b>They're not happy.</b><b>They may be working fine and stuff like</b><b>that, but boy, I don't know how that.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You may be wired and that's okay, but I</b><b>don't see a lot of that.</b><b>I see a lot of people trying to do the</b><b>right thing and, you know, trying to,</b><b>and there are some more driven and there's</b><b>reasons for, but you can tell if</b><b>someone's going to be,</b><b>you know what I mean?</b><b>If they, they're not</b><b>handling things, right?</b><b>And it looks like they're going to hit a</b><b>wall or something like that.</b><b>Is it a hard thing to fight where if,</b><b>especially if you're traveling and so</b><b>you're meeting new people, you're out to</b><b>dinners, you're doing all these fun things.</b><b>Is it, can it be hard for certain people?</b><b>Do you think to then have to downshift when</b><b>they're home and just slow down a</b><b>little bit because you're always on, you're</b><b>always, you know, talking to people.</b><b>There's always new and</b><b>exciting stimuli coming at you.</b><b>And then when you get home to your family,</b><b>when people, people who sell,</b><b>come home to their family, they're living</b><b>the more monotonous day to day life.</b><b>Do you think that can be hard for some</b><b>salespeople that transition?</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Do you think sometimes then they end up</b><b>taking on more work and being gone</b><b>more cause that's easier than being home?</b><b>I imagine so.</b><b>That kind of gets back to how do you handle</b><b>that relationship at home?</b><b>How is your relationship with your spouse?</b><b>Are you doing the right thing to make sure</b><b>that that person's needs are being met?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then the kids, so you got to make sure</b><b>you figure that all right.</b><b>Cause cause you don't want it to go down a</b><b>path where it doesn't work out because</b><b>of it, but certainly I think you're a</b><b>hundred percent right that that could go</b><b>down that path, you know, just because</b><b>you're right, you got to be on.</b><b>But if you think about nowadays, right?</b><b>Like, um, I think you were talking the</b><b>other day about, you know, technical</b><b>problems and you had to be</b><b>on phone calls for whatever.</b><b>So even though you're working for home,</b><b>that's a, that's a tough thing.</b><b>And the next day you're</b><b>shot because you were on calls.</b><b>So there's a mixed bag of that.</b><b>So you got to get both, right?</b><b>Whether, you know, it's</b><b>good that you can be remote.</b><b>It's good.</b><b>If you're going in, you good, you find the</b><b>balance, but the net of it is got to be</b><b>able to be find that balance</b><b>so that you're healthy, right?</b><b>You do that through your sports or, you</b><b>know, whatever you're doing, your cold</b><b>plunge, your yoga, you know, taking the</b><b>wife out of your, your relationship with</b><b>friends and finding a good balance because</b><b>you're right, there is a heavy load.</b><b>And you know what I mean?</b><b>I, you know, I was so happy.</b><b>My wife was able to stay at home until the</b><b>kids left high school and raise the</b><b>kids, which she did phenomenal on.</b><b>And that, you know, I've definitely felt</b><b>pressured to produce.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I think it did create some issues.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Valid point.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause it's such a delicate balance.</b><b>And especially if you have one spouse who I</b><b>remember when he traveled, there was,</b><b>you didn't do this again after that, but he</b><b>called me from Madrid, from like a bar</b><b>to tell me how wonderful everything is.</b><b>And our kids were like three, three and</b><b>six, and I'm making mac and cheese and</b><b>have to give baths and</b><b>everyone's screaming.</b><b>And I think your dad actually</b><b>said, don't ever do that again.</b><b>That's not what you do.</b><b>But I think it can be, it can be where you</b><b>have, there has to be an understanding.</b><b>There has to be good communication because</b><b>you have one spouse that is out</b><b>there working for the</b><b>family, supporting the family.</b><b>And then the other spouse is holding down</b><b>the home front, raising the family,</b><b>doing all the things so that the spouse</b><b>that's leaving can go leave and not worry</b><b>about the home front, which is priceless.</b><b>Um, but that spouse that's gone is living a</b><b>little bit more of a, you know, a fun</b><b>existence, you know?</b><b>And so there has to be that, I'm sure in</b><b>your marriage, you had to find that</b><b>balance, it's not like you came home and</b><b>were like, guess what I did.</b><b>I think I created some issues.</b><b>You're, you're right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's why it ended up being great when my</b><b>wife was able to come.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>And you know, quite honestly, at least from</b><b>my perspective, her job is so much</b><b>more important than mine.</b><b>I mean, raising those kids</b><b>just the same way you did, right?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I don't want to speak for you, but from</b><b>my perspective, hugely</b><b>outweighs what I did.</b><b>I understand making the money and all that</b><b>stuff and all the things behind it.</b><b>But I liked what I saw was</b><b>happening with my children.</b><b>So it goes together.</b><b>It's a partnership, right?</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>And the communication I think is a hundred</b><b>percent key, but I always say,</b><b>he laughs, but I always do say that, um,</b><b>you know, I, I was able to, it was a</b><b>privilege for me to stay home because Brian</b><b>was able to provide that, but it</b><b>was a privilege for him to be able to just</b><b>go and build his career without one</b><b>single worry about the</b><b>house or the kids or anything.</b><b>He didn't even have to</b><b>give it a second thought.</b><b>So we both were privileged from our</b><b>partnership and not that it was easy.</b><b>We're going on 31 years this September.</b><b>Um, there's been ups and downs, marriages,</b><b>ups and downs, and there's bad days,</b><b>bad weeks, bad months, whatever.</b><b>But I think that communication, but</b><b>especially in your situation where</b><b>there's somebody traveling, I think it can</b><b>create, um, extra challenges in</b><b>marriage and marriage</b><b>in general can be hard.</b><b>So that communication is so important.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And by the way, you're right.</b><b>It did.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It absolutely did.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We managed through it and we'll be married</b><b>37 years and we're 38 in September.</b><b>You better figure out which one.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Well, 1987.</b><b>So what does that mean?</b><b>That's 38.</b><b>I'm not mad.</b><b>It's going to be 38.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>When in September, 26.</b><b>Oh, we're the 17th.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I do have a question.</b><b>I think it's a perfect segue.</b><b>I want to get into how you meant your wife.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That was going to be my next question.</b><b>Two comments, one comment, one question</b><b>that bar Madrid was amazing.</b><b>It's like a 200 or 300 year old Irish club.</b><b>Amazing.</b><b>It's like, I think it</b><b>was three or four stories.</b><b>Hi, it was amazing.</b><b>Spain's a beautiful country.</b><b>Oh, it's my favorite city.</b><b>Here it is a gift.</b><b>That was his favorite.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>The question I have, it's interesting.</b><b>I was talking to someone who's about your</b><b>age, actually guy I worked with the</b><b>other day, just talking about sort of that</b><b>enlightenment that we go through.</b><b>I feel like, you know, this podcast has</b><b>probably helped me, um, learn some</b><b>things, you know, just talking like this</b><b>meeting incredible people and talking</b><b>about, you know, like your life story and</b><b>all this, when did, do you have a point</b><b>where you remember where maybe a light bulb</b><b>went off and you had some sense of</b><b>like, it may be an epiphany or the</b><b>realization of just understood things a</b><b>little bit better things</b><b>started to fall into place.</b><b>Was that your early fifties?</b><b>And if that doesn't make sense, I could try</b><b>to clarify, but you mean personally,</b><b>yeah, personally, where you were just</b><b>wisdom is the word I'm looking for.</b><b>Where you kind of felt</b><b>like, okay, I kind of got this.</b><b>I understand what I should do.</b><b>I understand that I didn't do that.</b><b>Does that make sense?</b><b>And do you recall a moment in life when</b><b>they're that click for you?</b><b>I understand the question.</b><b>I can't say a moment in life, but, but to</b><b>put color around that.</b><b>Certain things are important.</b><b>I knew that they were going along the right</b><b>path, like the raising of the kids,</b><b>even like you said, calling from Madrid.</b><b>I mean, I must have probably done that.</b><b>And you know, and it's so funny because you</b><b>tend to forget, but I can remember</b><b>my wife, man, you know,</b><b>and we didn't have help.</b><b>Like her parents, when we moved down here,</b><b>we're here and they, it's the</b><b>greatest of the kids.</b><b>Shearsie was with the kids alone.</b><b>So I can't say anyone, but I mean, it just</b><b>seemed like over time, there was</b><b>just these, I started feeling that, you</b><b>know, not making as many mistakes.</b><b>Grew up a little bit.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause you know, mistakes can be painful.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>And who wants that?</b><b>You know, and I feel like I had a lot of</b><b>breaks and then you start going, man,</b><b>you don't want to be on</b><b>the other side of, you know.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I wonder sometimes, is there a moment for</b><b>men when they're in a</b><b>marriage, when they really kind of look</b><b>around and think, I am so lucky.</b><b>Like I am so lucky that I have this</b><b>marriage and these children, but that</b><b>you start to see people that are divorcing</b><b>or things are falling apart and</b><b>you take stock in what you have.</b><b>Is that kind of what you're talking about?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I feel like I'm in that and</b><b>I've been in it for a little while.</b><b>And I'm just curious cause it's, I'm not</b><b>saying it's a new thing.</b><b>I've always been a pretty conscious person,</b><b>but I've also had the ability to</b><b>be a jerk and just let it, you know, call</b><b>from a bub and Madrid at three in the</b><b>morning and say, how warm the, right?</b><b>So I wouldn't do that again.</b><b>I know not from that, but just, I dunno,</b><b>you, yeah, you grow up, you get a little</b><b>more conscious, a little</b><b>more awareness type of thing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I'll add this Brian, since having grandkids</b><b>and now you're looking at</b><b>this from a different perspective and it's</b><b>a mind blowing, you're going to love it.</b><b>You had the three kids and if</b><b>you're, I've never seen my wife.</b><b>I mean, we of course happy.</b><b>We've enjoyed the kids so</b><b>much now more than ever.</b><b>I was the officiant of my son's marriage.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>And you know, my daughter's</b><b>getting married in January.</b><b>Oh, I didn't know that.</b><b>Congrats.</b><b>Thank you.</b><b>I mean, he's marrying his name, Eric Katz.</b><b>He's a great guy.</b><b>He's a Jewish guy and his father, Ron Katz</b><b>and I are going to be the</b><b>officiants at my daughter's wedding.</b><b>So I feel so connected in that way.</b><b>Do you know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, that's a whole nother phase.</b><b>It's a whole nother phase.</b><b>So now that my kids have got older and you</b><b>start understanding that, you know,</b><b>you did a lot of the right things and now</b><b>I've got these grandkids and I'm</b><b>like, I got this and my kids, because you</b><b>had made a point and wanted, no, one of</b><b>your podcasts I was listening to.</b><b>And you were talking about not putting</b><b>yourself front and center with, you</b><b>know, your kids' kids and you were talking</b><b>to my wife and I played that.</b><b>I played it so well, but a beautiful baby</b><b>and how two of them, but hey, how can we</b><b>help let us know?</b><b>Cause we're only 10 minutes away if that</b><b>naturally involved in this thing where,</b><b>oh my God, we, we love our son, but our</b><b>daughter-in-law is amazing.</b><b>And we help each other.</b><b>We try not to overstep and it's so just</b><b>communicate, but honestly, it hasn't been</b><b>that way.</b><b>It just kind of has worked.</b><b>So it's, you know, a mutual respect, but at</b><b>the same time, you know, I wouldn't</b><b>have taken the approach and just jumped and</b><b>forced ourselves on it.</b><b>Right.</b><b>No, we did.</b><b>That's, you'd be amazing how many people,</b><b>amazed at how many people do, you know,</b><b>and then there's a lot of,</b><b>they suffer the consequences.</b><b>I don't want that.</b><b>No, no, no.</b><b>So actually, what advice would you give to</b><b>people whose children, adult children</b><b>have not gotten married yet?</b><b>What advice would you give to parents on</b><b>how to be a good in-law to their future</b><b>spouse?</b><b>Take it slow.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Cause you don't know that person.</b><b>Well, you may think you do, you may have a</b><b>couple of experiences, but take it slow</b><b>because you really want to learn about that</b><b>person over time, some trips with them.</b><b>So maybe one-on-ones or some whatever it</b><b>may be naturally that evolves, learn more</b><b>about them and then slowly, but</b><b>surely, how can you be helpful?</b><b>How can you be kind?</b><b>How can you make it a better day so that</b><b>the relationship just blossoms in a good</b><b>way?</b><b>Doesn't mean there won't be bumps because</b><b>there absolutely will be humans that, you</b><b>know, aren't perfect.</b><b>But, uh, yeah, take it slow.</b><b>Learn it, learn a good bit.</b><b>Don't put the cart before the horse.</b><b>Even if you like these, I can't think that</b><b>you know, you want certain things to</b><b>happen, but you can't make them happen.</b><b>So be a great participant to help it unfold</b><b>in the best for everybody involved.</b><b>Great advice.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, that's wonderful advice and respect</b><b>their boundaries too.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Totally.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Totally.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And how important would you say it is to</b><b>make them feel welcome into the family</b><b>from day one?</b><b>Key, especially, you know, there's, there's</b><b>people have issues that they've</b><b>grown up with.</b><b>We've all had certain things, some better</b><b>than others, some worse than others, but</b><b>you don't want to, you know, there, there,</b><b>some people don't have great parents.</b><b>And then all of a sudden they're in this</b><b>house and it's Brady bunches.</b><b>Are you guys know what the Brady bunches?</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, we're seeing</b><b>like everything was pretty cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We grew up watching the Brady.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's our air.</b><b>In your thing, strolling me for a little,</b><b>but for us, um, it was reruns.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. That shit was life.</b><b>Uh, maybe we're really little</b><b>like, but no, I think it stopped.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>But I thought when they were in Hawaii</b><b>doing that, like ski jump competition.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Maybe it was, maybe it was the early</b><b>seasons that were reruns, but no, no, I</b><b>think you're right.</b><b>I think like we were there for maybe like</b><b>our age could remember live, but then</b><b>the early ones that were black and white.</b><b>That's crazy.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So funny.</b><b>You remember that, but yeah, but I mean,</b><b>how I deal with, you know, just the</b><b>music was great and they got it.</b><b>So, but a lot of, you know, I, and I see</b><b>this because again, some of the things</b><b>that I do outside of, uh, my direct family,</b><b>you see, these people aren't</b><b>having the luxury of two good parents doing</b><b>the right thing and being there.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, I was telling you about that</b><b>Eucharistic ministry thing and it's</b><b>such an awesome thing to do it.</b><b>And I do it for the sick and dying.</b><b>And it's so interesting to hear what they</b><b>tell you as you're getting older and</b><b>getting ready to move on and what's going</b><b>to blow your mind won't blow your</b><b>mind, but one of the main things you'll</b><b>hear is I wish I spent more time with</b><b>family and they'll go, I was just trying to</b><b>work really hard, but you know, my</b><b>daughter holds it against</b><b>me because I wasn't there.</b><b>So there's regret on not being there.</b><b>And again, some of it's selfish and you</b><b>make your own bed, but some of it, oh, I</b><b>just thought I was working so hard.</b><b>So, so important.</b><b>And the other one, this</b><b>is just blows me away.</b><b>They'll go, I didn't speak to</b><b>my brother for like 40 years.</b><b>And the guy, you know, he's on his death</b><b>bed and he's just like, why did I let that</b><b>happen? So it gets back to those family</b><b>ties and it gets back to getting over those</b><b>hurdles and just, you know, making that</b><b>work out because when you can't change and</b><b>it's getting to that point, it's, and it's</b><b>all in those similar regrets.</b><b>It's like, Oh, I wish I made more money.</b><b>I don't think that matters at that point.</b><b>It's about you, what your kids are going to</b><b>say about you and your, anyway, not to</b><b>keep going, but it's so interesting to hear</b><b>and go, I wish I would have well, then</b><b>do it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So yeah.</b><b>And I've, it's not the first time I've</b><b>heard that, but at your door, you're</b><b>directly involved here.</b><b>And so hearing that is, uh, it's kind of</b><b>powerful because you hear that you can</b><b>read it and go on Yahoo.com or whatever and</b><b>read that, but to hear it and you see</b><b>it firsthand, that's</b><b>probably way more powerful, I guess.</b><b>I've been able to use it.</b><b>My friends got a great friend that I love.</b><b>I speak golf and where it's, it's so cool</b><b>and may not be as close to his brother.</b><b>There's some whatever.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>He was talking to me</b><b>about a certain things.</b><b>And I said, have you</b><b>really thought about that?</b><b>So I learned from that gentleman that said</b><b>that to me about why didn't I speak to my</b><b>brother for 40 years?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And you know, and that may be a little bit</b><b>of dramatic example, but the point being,</b><b>if you can control it and you can be there,</b><b>you're not going to, you're going to feel</b><b>good about how things unfold as you age.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And the investment, I think one of the,</b><b>what you were referring to the video maybe</b><b>was also talking about the investment you</b><b>put into your children, their childhood</b><b>and being there and present, you get the</b><b>reward when they're adult children and</b><b>they give you access to their life.</b><b>Cause it's amazing how</b><b>many access to the reward.</b><b>It's the reward, right?</b><b>Like our, our, our, our, even our 15 year</b><b>old still will hang out with us, but our</b><b>adult children want to hang out with us.</b><b>And we're every time we're like, my</b><b>daughter asked me if</b><b>I'd go to yoga tomorrow</b><b>morning.</b><b>I'm like, yes, of course.</b><b>My favorite thing.</b><b>So it's our favorite thing.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>You guys were, you would, you're very</b><b>similar to my, and it's so important.</b><b>You got to work and it doesn't mean</b><b>everything's perfect.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But when you think about that and you know,</b><b>it kind of gets back to so important</b><b>whether it's a man or woman that stay at</b><b>home person, I think is more important</b><b>than, you know, especially as times unfold</b><b>and there's so much pressure to earn.</b><b>But man, I'm glad my wife</b><b>stayed home and let's go there.</b><b>Let's go.</b><b>How did you meet your wife?</b><b>Where did you meet her?</b><b>Yes.</b><b>I've been married 37 years.</b><b>I know I've said hi to her</b><b>before, but let's hear it.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>When did you meet her?</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So, um, I guess like 85, 86,</b><b>right out of college, right.</b><b>Her sister was, uh, ran the</b><b>soccer team for James Madison.</b><b>So we'd share fields and she was just this</b><b>beautiful, cool girl.</b><b>Did she go there?</b><b>Oh, she was.</b><b>She played soccer for James Madison.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>My wife's sister.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So we were just great buddies, great</b><b>buddies and our groups hung out together.</b><b>And you know, love her still to this day.</b><b>They live near us.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Um, and we graduated, I don't know.</b><b>I went up to New York with my buddies doing</b><b>our thing and she's like, Hey, come</b><b>down, we're having a party.</b><b>Um, you know where she lived at the time,</b><b>you know, where was that?</b><b>Like, I think it was Fairfax, Virginia.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They're Virginia girls.</b><b>Um, and again, I met the</b><b>party, got a bunch of friends.</b><b>Life is good.</b><b>This beauty walks in the house.</b><b>Starts shaking.</b><b>My dad said, you guys, the energy changed,</b><b>at least for me and having him, excuse</b><b>me, have said that I, I knew something was</b><b>different at that point and then how</b><b>it unfolded.</b><b>So very quickly, we knew she was flying up</b><b>to New York shortly thereafter.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So it was instantaneous.</b><b>And by the way, you guys, I'm sure for her</b><b>as it was for me, I was popping around.</b><b>So ho Greenwich village, going into the</b><b>city, Nick games, taking clients out to</b><b>dinner on Cisco.</b><b>I wasn't looking for love to get married.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You really wasn't ready to settle down.</b><b>That could be a little bit of</b><b>cause some of the immaturity.</b><b>Mm-hmm.</b><b>Back to what caused some of the, how old</b><b>were you when you got married?</b><b>So 87.</b><b>So I was 26.</b><b>She was 25.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You guys were young.</b><b>We were 23.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's even that I can't</b><b>imagine, but you're right.</b><b>It's young.</b><b>We, my first kid was born when I was 30.</b><b>So I felt good about that because we were</b><b>able to do a bunch, but I wasn't ready.</b><b>I wasn't.</b><b>And by the way, not sure enough too,</b><b>because commitment made a lot of sense, but</b><b>there were other priorities and what they</b><b>said when they were reading vows</b><b>didn't make sense until</b><b>you really go through it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So it's true.</b><b>I, I, we always say we feel like we grew up</b><b>together because we got married saying</b><b>you're twenties.</b><b>You grow so much in your twenties.</b><b>You change your frontal lobe.</b><b>Doesn't even close to your 26.</b><b>I think, you know, we got</b><b>married before our frontal lobe.</b><b>Well, we were, we were married, had a kid.</b><b>We had Nathan at 26 at a young age and then</b><b>had Kaya at 29 and then popped up.</b><b>With Dylan at 38.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I know that I can still remember that when</b><b>that's our bonus, but you'd love being a</b><b>mom from the get go from the get go.</b><b>So you were that I wanted that.</b><b>In fact, we had a discussion before we got</b><b>married and I made it very clear that I</b><b>wanted to be a stay at home mom because my</b><b>childhood was total chaos.</b><b>My parents divorced and married other</b><b>people divorced and married again.</b><b>And I had step siblings</b><b>and half siblings and moving.</b><b>It was just chaos.</b><b>And so I wanted stability.</b><b>And I wanted to give my</b><b>children the childhood I wanted.</b><b>I wanted to make cookies and have them</b><b>there when they got home from school.</b><b>I wanted the traditional 1950s, quote</b><b>unquote, Norman Rockefeller.</b><b>I wanted it.</b><b>I wanted it.</b><b>And he wanted that</b><b>because he grew up like that.</b><b>His mom was home till</b><b>he went to junior high.</b><b>Um, so he had, his</b><b>parents were still married.</b><b>Um, he had a very traditional upbringing.</b><b>So we, we were like minded and</b><b>when we got married, we're 23.</b><b>We didn't have any money.</b><b>Like we lived in a house that was probably</b><b>literally the size of this room.</b><b>Not much bigger than this room.</b><b>When we brought Nathan</b><b>home, including the kitchen.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>When he, and we're not exaggerating when</b><b>he, we brought Nathan home.</b><b>His crib was like here.</b><b>Um, like in, in the, there</b><b>was a room, his crib was there.</b><b>So I stayed home even then.</b><b>Like I, I went, we went without for me to</b><b>stay home because that's how</b><b>important it was to both of us.</b><b>I just couldn't put him in</b><b>daycare and none of that.</b><b>So, and then we built the career together.</b><b>And we had a pretty mean</b><b>independent street too.</b><b>I think we were living</b><b>in Oregon at the time.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We could have probably chosen some easier</b><b>routes, but we were pretty independent.</b><b>We could have lived in Michigan or Jersey</b><b>near family and probably had more help,</b><b>but we were doing it on our own.</b><b>You were madly in love.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>You had a child together.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Had to be one of the</b><b>best times in your life.</b><b>Right.</b><b>It was, it was great.</b><b>Like, especially Nathan being</b><b>born was, I don't even know.</b><b>It was magical.</b><b>It's weird.</b><b>We were kids raising kids</b><b>and it was like, I don't know.</b><b>I feel like my whole life is</b><b>blessed since we've had a family.</b><b>So to go back and pick that</b><b>as the best time, I don't know.</b><b>Today was pretty special.</b><b>I mean, what an amazing, when you think</b><b>about it, because you obviously weren't</b><b>earning, no, no, you live</b><b>in, but my point is how cool.</b><b>I can just remember that just being with</b><b>similar, a little, little bit</b><b>different, but very simple.</b><b>Well, I think part of marriage</b><b>is building the life together.</b><b>So many younger generations, I think, and I</b><b>think a lot of it has to do with</b><b>social media and comparing</b><b>your life to others so easily.</b><b>Um, but I think they think they need to</b><b>have the big house and the cars and all</b><b>the things before they get married.</b><b>And it's like, no, some of</b><b>this is you build it together.</b><b>Is there is something about</b><b>starting out small and doing it.</b><b>That's the marriage.</b><b>That's the foundation.</b><b>And, um, that creates that strength and</b><b>those ups and downs and that</b><b>adversity and all that.</b><b>So it's, I mean, it's wonderful.</b><b>Once you get all those things, it's lovely.</b><b>There's that that's great.</b><b>And that's the goal,</b><b>but I'm doing it together.</b><b>You go, I think you go through things that</b><b>keep you together, you know, instead</b><b>of just having it all there and then, I</b><b>don't know, having it all there can</b><b>sometimes really create problems, having a</b><b>lot of money, not that, but I mean,</b><b>yeah, you live in an affluent area.</b><b>I live in a fluent area and a lot of the</b><b>kids that have problems, they haven't</b><b>been told to do chores or</b><b>haven't had, you know what I mean?</b><b>There's, there's, there's issues.</b><b>No, you have to have that work ethic and</b><b>you have to have an appreciation for</b><b>money and the cost of things</b><b>that doesn't, and that earn it.</b><b>Cause then you, um, you enjoy it, but if</b><b>you're just given things, then you</b><b>really never understand how</b><b>to be happy about something.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>I do.</b><b>I do.</b><b>And that that's great.</b><b>Cause that kind of levels things out.</b><b>If you think about it, you don't want to</b><b>always struggle, but at the same time,</b><b>you just want it to work, but</b><b>you do want that appreciation.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You want your kids to be good.</b><b>You want to be good, you know,</b><b>again, we were down to earth.</b><b>Yeah, absolutely.</b><b>And real when, uh, so</b><b>you guys got together.</b><b>Oh, you're going to the party.</b><b>You went to the party, he</b><b>met her and then she came up.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>He came up.</b><b>Did she move up?</b><b>Uh, we're shortly thereafter.</b><b>And then did you guys live together?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then from how long was it from the time</b><b>you met to got married?</b><b>Less than two years.</b><b>Not even it happened quick.</b><b>And her, her family was from.</b><b>Um, Northern Virginia.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>But what's wild and this</b><b>is why it worked out again.</b><b>So fortunate when you think about it.</b><b>So that now we had two</b><b>kids, little ones in New York.</b><b>I'm living out on the</b><b>North shore of Long Island.</b><b>It's a great friends and</b><b>still to this day, wonderful.</b><b>But I'm going into New York</b><b>city, going back in New York.</b><b>It's lovely.</b><b>It is, is not having been a grind.</b><b>It's a grind.</b><b>So her dad, her stepdad</b><b>really just phenomenal man.</b><b>Anyway, it was very intelligent.</b><b>I had a company that built, uh,</b><b>intelligence and</b><b>cockpits during the Reagan era.</b><b>So he software did different things so that</b><b>these cockpits had intelligence.</b><b>Um, sold the company did very well and</b><b>moved to of all things, Cape</b><b>coral to start got into real estate.</b><b>Eventually moved his way down into Fort</b><b>Myers and then ended up in Naples.</b><b>So here we are after X amount of years in</b><b>New York and we're ready.</b><b>And he's like, come on down.</b><b>And Cisco was like, I</b><b>don't care where you live.</b><b>It was meant to be.</b><b>So I went from that wonderful experience,</b><b>but burning out, as you said, it was, I</b><b>was, you know what I mean?</b><b>The rat race was in there</b><b>during the Giuliani years.</b><b>Right.</b><b>It was.</b><b>So that's when New York was wonderful.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause I started with the</b><b>rainbow coalition with David Dinkins.</b><b>That administration was not a good one in</b><b>my opinion, no disrespect, but</b><b>Giuliani came in and</b><b>cleaned things up and it was nice.</b><b>And I'll tell you this, you know, I still</b><b>go back and forth and we would go in.</b><b>We bring the kids.</b><b>I would go with the kids by myself.</b><b>Toys are us.</b><b>And that whole Times Square was different.</b><b>There was things you</b><b>could do with kids then.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You can't say it's changed</b><b>for the better as of now late.</b><b>So that's a shame.</b><b>It is.</b><b>It breaks my heart.</b><b>It's it'll, it'll be a circle though.</b><b>Cause when I was a kid, we'd go into the</b><b>city and it was dangerous.</b><b>There were hookers on the street.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. Yeah.</b><b>So on drugs, the squeegee guys, it was fun</b><b>being in high school doing that.</b><b>But then I went to college, came back and</b><b>Giuliani had taken over and it was like</b><b>Disney, so we're back to</b><b>that squeegee mode right now.</b><b>I'm hoping though.</b><b>I don't know.</b><b>It's a little crazy there right now.</b><b>I'm hoping it'll sort itself out.</b><b>It doesn't certainly sound like what's</b><b>going on in the potential mayor.</b><b>Anyway, you just want safety, right?</b><b>You want to be able to, you know, take your</b><b>kids into the city and experience</b><b>great and not that you kill stamp, but you</b><b>got to admit you better be, you</b><b>better be smart about it, right?</b><b>Were you, were you there then</b><b>for nine 11 or had you moved?</b><b>Sounds yet move a year before.</b><b>Okay, cool.</b><b>Terrible.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, it's horrible.</b><b>We were so glad to move and we still go</b><b>back once a year, twice a year,</b><b>dependent upon, we got some good friends,</b><b>but living in Naples the last 25 years</b><b>has been nothing but, but beautiful.</b><b>It's gotten too busy since the pandemic.</b><b>Everywhere in Florida.</b><b>Right.</b><b>So everywhere in Florida.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, but again,</b><b>Before you guys got married, like how I</b><b>said, Brian and I had that talk about how</b><b>we envision raising children and then I'd</b><b>be home and he'd work.</b><b>Did you and your wife have just a</b><b>discussion about roles or how you saw</b><b>each of you playing out</b><b>your role in the marriage?</b><b>No.</b><b>And would you say that, um, that was needed</b><b>or you should have, or did you</b><b>go, did it just happen</b><b>naturally for you guys?</b><b>Happened naturally.</b><b>But I think if that discussion was had, it</b><b>would probably been a little bit better.</b><b>And the only reason I say that is she</b><b>worked for city core at the time,</b><b>Citibank, and she was, she did well.</b><b>She did well.</b><b>And she wanted kids, but you know,</b><b>everything changes the moment you have a</b><b>kid and then like I said, I wasn't, you</b><b>know, a couple of miles down the street.</b><b>Right.</b><b>So, you know, for it work.</b><b>So I think that was a difficult change, but</b><b>she just loved being a mom.</b><b>So that all worked out, but that discussion</b><b>probably would have been more prudent.</b><b>We just fell in love.</b><b>And so let's go.</b><b>Would you say that that's pretty common in</b><b>your generation that just to go for it</b><b>and not have the communicating beforehand</b><b>about those things, but wasn't</b><b>discussed as much maybe.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>I think you're probably right.</b><b>I don't know as much about others, but I do</b><b>think it's probably that's real.</b><b>Cause if not, people</b><b>would talk about it more now.</b><b>Like, you know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, you know, it makes me, so when</b><b>did you become a communicator?</b><b>Cause you probably</b><b>weren't in the beginning, right?</b><b>When did you, in his</b><b>marriage, in his marriage?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Probably.</b><b>She was a better listener.</b><b>I talked too much.</b><b>So I always thought I was a good</b><b>communicator, Brian, but,</b><b>but, um, I think we had that.</b><b>We always loved each other immensely.</b><b>And we always thought that, you know, you</b><b>could always work through things.</b><b>But again, I think we could have been me in</b><b>particular, more intelligent about some</b><b>of the choices that I made.</b><b>You know, I was loving life, you know, just</b><b>doing things and putting it out there.</b><b>And at some point, especially when you have</b><b>a family, you know, you can't come in late</b><b>from the city, you know,</b><b>I think you've alluded to that.</b><b>You've got, did you go through that phase</b><b>where your, your wife's home with the kids,</b><b>you're in the city doing a nice sales job,</b><b>taking people out, entertaining</b><b>clients in the best city in the world.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>And you're going to Nick's games.</b><b>Probably there were probably</b><b>some hot clubs like studio 54.</b><b>I don't know.</b><b>I'm like, was it, so what's the deal there?</b><b>Like, what was that phase like for you?</b><b>What were you guys, what were you up to?</b><b>It was wonderful.</b><b>And a lot of times she participated, but it</b><b>was the eighties nineties and a lot of</b><b>bad stuff happened with drugs.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>The coke years.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>The coke years.</b><b>And, you know, I got caught up in it a</b><b>little bit and it was tough because you</b><b>know, I have an addictive personality.</b><b>So that, that is</b><b>something I look back on it.</b><b>Not proud of, but you know,</b><b>it is what it is.</b><b>It is what it is.</b><b>But got through it.</b><b>Thankfully things went good.</b><b>But point is, you guys,</b><b>there'd be Friday afternoon.</b><b>You're on wall street, street closes.</b><b>They'd run out the bar restaurants and</b><b>you'd go down there and I'm on that</b><b>relationship guy, they liked me.</b><b>They'd have a room in the</b><b>restaurants, a party room.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Do you remember that kind of, I mean,</b><b>well, the seaport area, right?</b><b>That wall streets, the seaport</b><b>kind of area that parties there.</b><b>It's a, I used to go in there as a kid.</b><b>We brought her there and</b><b>brought the kids there.</b><b>We'd get on the seaport.</b><b>But all those restaurants, all those bars,</b><b>it's a fun place to be.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I just wish that that was the little</b><b>different times because you can't call</b><b>you know, especially, or even if you're</b><b>drinking too much and you got to go back</b><b>two hours, you know, you're not in the,</b><b>the, the healthiest of environments.</b><b>And I'm not boo hooing about it, but I</b><b>mean, those choices, if you look back,</b><b>I would now go a lot better.</b><b>And I think that I shared that with my</b><b>children and they made better choices.</b><b>Back to you talk about my father's</b><b>generation and mother's great parents.</b><b>They never told me a thing about it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I would have been the guy that had been</b><b>good to tell about it.</b><b>You know what I mean about, Hey, you know,</b><b>getting a girl pregnant or the, the, the,</b><b>the, I never had those discussions.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I don't, I think that's their generation.</b><b>There was, it was.</b><b>And even in your generation, like you guys,</b><b>I think you talking to your kids about</b><b>this, that's probably kind of unusual for</b><b>your generation because I don't think</b><b>your generation really talked.</b><b>Gen X is really the first generation where</b><b>we're like, we're talking about it all.</b><b>Cause no one talked to us about anything.</b><b>You know, like our</b><b>parents, his parents didn't talk.</b><b>Well, you had silent generation and boomer.</b><b>Maybe they both were silent generation.</b><b>I had boomer in our situation.</b><b>Our parents talked to us about money, about</b><b>getting a girl pregnant, about</b><b>anything, menopause, like, you know,</b><b>anything that's coming up.</b><b>So we went in blind.</b><b>So now we're all making it a point.</b><b>Let's talk.</b><b>So with our kids, we're like, we're going</b><b>to talk about it all, even if it's</b><b>uncomfortable or even if just</b><b>so that we're a resource for you.</b><b>So I think, but I knew you doing that with</b><b>you, your kids, I think that was, um,</b><b>you were progressive for your generation.</b><b>I think that you did that.</b><b>Cause I don't think a lot did.</b><b>I'm glad to hear that because I think a lot</b><b>of it stemmed out of I don't want them</b><b>cause I feel so lucky that some things that</b><b>could have gone bad didn't.</b><b>And sometimes bad things</b><b>happen to very good people.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So I didn't, you know, if you can limit</b><b>that potential possibility, I mean, think</b><b>about now with the drugs, like the</b><b>fentanyl, they're talking about, can you</b><b>imagine these wonderful young kids make one</b><b>mistake, one mistake.</b><b>It happens to one of our son's friends.</b><b>And it was one, you</b><b>know, I can't even imagine.</b><b>And I would, it just, it's beyond me to</b><b>think that, cause I can't even tell you</b><b>how many mistakes have</b><b>been made by me, my friends.</b><b>You think you're just smoking a joint, but</b><b>it's laced with fentanyl.</b><b>Now all of a sudden you're</b><b>phoning at the mouth, dying.</b><b>That's fucked up.</b><b>That's crazy.</b><b>It's a tougher time.</b><b>So we've talked, I've talked to Dylan about</b><b>you can't take anything from</b><b>anyone because it could have, I say</b><b>anything candy, anything you're right.</b><b>You can't, you know, I mean, the</b><b>conversations we've</b><b>had with him about that.</b><b>I never even had with Nathan and Kaya that</b><b>I'm having to have with him.</b><b>It's, it's crazy.</b><b>Mind blowing.</b><b>Honestly, the topics you have to cover</b><b>nowadays, and maybe it's, it's always</b><b>been that way in week to your point where a</b><b>generation that talks about it,</b><b>but it's crazy.</b><b>Our parents didn't talk to us and now we're</b><b>the, the depth we go to it's</b><b>to cover everything, but safe, you guys.</b><b>That's the problem.</b><b>And you, you know, doesn't mean that it's</b><b>not here or where I'm in, but I'm saying</b><b>the, anybody could make that mistake.</b><b>And now you're paying with</b><b>your life and it's just not right.</b><b>So we have to address this as a society and</b><b>fix it because that's not fair to them.</b><b>Even if they made a mistake because we all</b><b>made, we've all made mistakes.</b><b>We could have a space to make mistakes.</b><b>You should not have it be life.</b><b>Generally that's the way life used to be.</b><b>And you know, a safe space to</b><b>make those mistakes, I guess.</b><b>I have a question.</b><b>So I have to do this sometimes.</b><b>I have a question</b><b>because she's ready to roll.</b><b>In talking to your kids, was that driven by</b><b>you and your wife say together or more</b><b>her cause ours was definitely</b><b>driven more by Nicole, right?</b><b>She's the better parent.</b><b>But how would that,</b><b>what about your dynamics?</b><b>I guess.</b><b>Mutual.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, it's interesting.</b><b>And again, so cool that it happened this</b><b>way, but my son and I've been like this</b><b>and they can't go, it's just been that way.</b><b>Still are.</b><b>Um, my wife and my daughter, best friends,</b><b>they just had their bachelorette party for</b><b>my daughter out in Colorado.</b><b>I saw it at Denver last week and a weekend</b><b>ago and 12 wonderful girls flew into for</b><b>my daughter and they invited my wife.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>So when you have those kinds</b><b>of, you know, that's the reward.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I stayed at my son's house and helped with</b><b>the two kids and it was the greatest few</b><b>days to see this.</b><b>So I take that so, Oh, but I think that</b><b>comes from the hard work that you all did.</b><b>And again, just like you</b><b>said about Nicole, I agree.</b><b>Sure.</b><b>She's probably better parent.</b><b>She's definitely smarter.</b><b>But you know, I think I might be more fun</b><b>to be honest with you.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I think that's the mix, but that I</b><b>credit her so much with that because boy,</b><b>these kids turned out</b><b>well, but I did my part.</b><b>There's no question, but she was in it day</b><b>one and they talked to her.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They talked to her and they allowed that</b><b>they didn't invite us to school.</b><b>They invite.</b><b>I'm telling you, my son, I was responsible</b><b>for him staying an extra year at</b><b>University of central Florida.</b><b>I loved everything about his college.</b><b>My wife and I go up, they'd invite us.</b><b>We'd never put ourselves</b><b>front and center, whatever.</b><b>But you're in Orlando.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>What a boy.</b><b>I loved that.</b><b>I bummed out when he graduated.</b><b>I swear to God, I can</b><b>relate my, I would go up.</b><b>I'd go up to my son's frat</b><b>parties for dad's weekend.</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>So you had a reputation in the frat.</b><b>The greatest.</b><b>So you can get that</b><b>you did something right.</b><b>Doesn't know.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, but that, but that's</b><b>not, again, it's earned.</b><b>It's earned from the time.</b><b>100%.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And you guys had a partnership.</b><b>You worked together all those years,</b><b>raising your children.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, as, as far as becoming a parent, I</b><b>always say that that's an emotion that</b><b>you don't have until that baby's born.</b><b>And then it's a love you didn't know it</b><b>existed and then it changes you forever.</b><b>And it just changes the</b><b>whole trajectory of everything.</b><b>100%.</b><b>And it's the greatest thing ever.</b><b>And the hardest.</b><b>And the hardest and the hardest because it</b><b>takes so much effort and time to do it.</b><b>Right.</b><b>I think, but it's so rewarding.</b><b>You know what?</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>And if you don't, you never know.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I got good news for you to call.</b><b>Great news for you.</b><b>It's better being a grandpa.</b><b>Everyone says that.</b><b>It's true.</b><b>I can't imagine.</b><b>And it doesn't mean even my kids who we</b><b>adore and they adore us.</b><b>You're going to, you're going to, you can't</b><b>believe that it's the</b><b>next generation of you.</b><b>You see it of them, they see it in you and</b><b>they're just like, so dad, this is the way</b><b>you were with me.</b><b>And it's just, and then you're just like,</b><b>you'll have the time and energy.</b><b>You know, you might be a</b><b>little older when you're young.</b><b>As the kids you too.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Oh, but you are gonna, it, from my</b><b>perspective, and I'm glad</b><b>to hear that you say other</b><b>people say maybe it's</b><b>cause you're not as stressed.</b><b>You're better off financially.</b><b>You have some choices.</b><b>We happen to live near one another, which</b><b>is obviously the best.</b><b>You're probably going to want that.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah, absolutely.</b><b>But I've never, ever, ever</b><b>experienced anything like this.</b><b>You know, I cannot wait.</b><b>I cannot wait.</b><b>She's so our oldest and his</b><b>girlfriend got a fish together.</b><b>A beta fish.</b><b>She wants them to go out of</b><b>town so we can babysit the fish.</b><b>That's how much I can't wait.</b><b>Oh, we have a storage unit and half of it</b><b>is filled with toys of my kids that are for</b><b>our grave.</b><b>We pay monthly on it.</b><b>You know what?</b><b>You probably, you probably, you</b><b>know, and I'd love to hear it.</b><b>Cause by the way, I listened to podcast one</b><b>where you talked about the upbringings and</b><b>what you went through as opposed to what</b><b>you went through,</b><b>because I would truthfully</b><b>say, thank God, because you</b><b>know, you never know, right?</b><b>Doesn't mean your parents weren't good,</b><b>whatever, but two stable parents, two good</b><b>people was so wonderful.</b><b>So for you to make the choices, kudos,</b><b>because you could also be tainted where</b><b>people feel they got short change or</b><b>whatever the case may be.</b><b>And you know, you still own your own</b><b>destiny, but it's a little bit harder.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Maybe a lot a bit harder.</b><b>But I mean, what's better and</b><b>what there's nothing better.</b><b>And I know what I see it on your face.</b><b>So I can't wait.</b><b>I can't wait.</b><b>Well, he'll, he'll tell you, you know,</b><b>he'll tell you as soon as we get news.</b><b>Well, not only that he will be at two.</b><b>Oh, he will be at two.</b><b>I can't wait.</b><b>Oh, he's going to be.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, I, I, I, and you know what you guys</b><b>both, you complimented me, you complimented</b><b>your wife and I do think that everything</b><b>you said about the mother and the home.</b><b>I agree.</b><b>But I do 100% feel that having a father and</b><b>in a child's life is the game changer for</b><b>a son and a daughter</b><b>for a son and a daughter.</b><b>It's a game change, whether you're still</b><b>married to the father or not, the father</b><b>being involved with the</b><b>children is a game changer.</b><b>I think it's important.</b><b>It has to be right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I mean, really does.</b><b>Although there are some women that aren't,</b><b>aren't into, you know, yeah, but yeah,</b><b>that's the base.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But that father, especially I think with</b><b>girls, especially with self-esteem,</b><b>with, um, believing in themselves with</b><b>knowing how to pick a partner, having that</b><b>father in their lives is such an aid.</b><b>They're not trying to fill</b><b>that void of not having a father.</b><b>I would make an argument and I, and I'm not</b><b>saying I would win this argument, but</b><b>I would put up the argument that the</b><b>father's more important, but I would</b><b>expect the mother to counter that with why</b><b>the mom's more important.</b><b>And then you agree to disagree that we're</b><b>both important, but</b><b>dads are super critical.</b><b>I think it's a, it's an</b><b>awesome responsibility.</b><b>We have to honor and put work into and</b><b>evolve and all of that.</b><b>It's critical.</b><b>I think.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Can't, I can't disagree, be critical, but I</b><b>don't, uh, I would say that.</b><b>It's going to sound a little odd, but I</b><b>mean, my mother having a baby and</b><b>developing inside of them</b><b>just as amazing to them.</b><b>And not that you can't have the same</b><b>connection because I think we do, but I</b><b>also think it's different.</b><b>And I think the mother</b><b>is that, and it's both.</b><b>So we're talking, I'm saying,</b><b>you can't, but point is, I do.</b><b>And you think about it, a lot of the issues</b><b>we have, you got some strong</b><b>mothers that thank God</b><b>hold together things.</b><b>And then when you don't have a father, I</b><b>think statistically there's no,</b><b>you're a hundred percent on point.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, um, you both just, I think it worked.</b><b>You guys, you're going to</b><b>have this beautiful child.</b><b>Let's just make it work.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's the key.</b><b>So your, so your son went to UCF.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Where'd your daughter go?</b><b>Florida Gulf Coast.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So they were both in Florida and now they</b><b>both live in Florida.</b><b>Close.</b><b>So that's wonderful.</b><b>So it's just, do you just</b><b>keep hitting the jackpot?</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Pension myself because it's, you know,</b><b>What more could you want?</b><b>Um, maybe more grandchildren.</b><b>Um, because now you're at two, right?</b><b>And it too.</b><b>So a boy or a boy, two and a</b><b>half year old, cutest thing you've</b><b>ever seen in this four month old.</b><b>And then it's the four</b><b>month old, a boy or girl.</b><b>Girl. Oh, Gemma, Gemma.</b><b>And it's so funny, you know, babies, right?</b><b>He said you're great.</b><b>You know, and I happened to</b><b>be, I liked the baby stage a lot.</b><b>Never had a problem with mine.</b><b>And obviously them, you know, diapers,</b><b>crunched on batter, but we walk around</b><b>and all I see my wife do she's holding this</b><b>little chunk of mugs and just kissing</b><b>the head and I'm sitting there going,</b><b>that's what you used to do with Alexandra.</b><b>And it's, I've never seen her happier.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Again, I take, yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So, uh, is your daughter and daughter and</b><b>Laura, they stay at home?</b><b>My daughter is not, she's a counselor</b><b>Florida golf coast, but my daughter and</b><b>she doesn't have a child yet.</b><b>My daughter, she's</b><b>getting married in January.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Um, but yeah, my daughter-in-law stopped</b><b>working right before the child.</b><b>This woman was made to mother.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And do you know anything about, cause</b><b>they're, uh, are they millennial or</b><b>Gen Z when were they born?</b><b>Um, 93.</b><b>And I think she was maybe 95 or 94.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So millennial, there, no, yeah.</b><b>They're millennials.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Cause Nathan's the, he's the oldest child.</b><b>He's the oldest Gen Z and he's 97.</b><b>You're the expert in the millennials.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So they're millennial parents.</b><b>So, or not parents, your son is a</b><b>millennial parent and with your daughter</b><b>in law, um, have you observed, do you think</b><b>their communication is way more</b><b>involved about roles, parenting, um,</b><b>raising a family than even your</b><b>generation or our generation.</b><b>Have you observed any of that?</b><b>Or gotten that vibe?</b><b>They interesting because they're really</b><b>good, but they don't put it out there as</b><b>much as I put it out there.</b><b>They're very different.</b><b>They're more, my son was much more to</b><b>himself growing up about</b><b>relationships and stuff like that.</b><b>I think I made him uncomfortable.</b><b>Even though he was fine with it and ends up</b><b>being good talking about some of the</b><b>things that we talked about.</b><b>I think they must obviously do that.</b><b>Well, I don't see them doing that outwardly</b><b>when we're around, but I see</b><b>two parents that are joyous.</b><b>I noticed that this past week, what was</b><b>just me and my kid and sure it's a lot</b><b>of work, but it's joyful with them.</b><b>You know, and it had a lot of work.</b><b>I was Sunday come, I was done.</b><b>You know, that two and a half year old, oh,</b><b>it's the cutest, but a lot of</b><b>work, but some juice.</b><b>They have some juice, but to your point,</b><b>they seem more, I don't, they're not as</b><b>outwardly about it.</b><b>Um, I think my daughter with my wife is</b><b>very good about going deep, but my son's</b><b>not his actions speak volumes.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, um, you know, he's probably, they're</b><b>probably, they're more private about,</b><b>they're more private about it,</b><b>but they're working as partners.</b><b>It's obvious that</b><b>they're working in harmony.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I feel that they're</b><b>supporting one another very well.</b><b>And you know what, for what it's worth, I</b><b>think he feels the same way, making sure</b><b>that his wonderful wife has everything she</b><b>needs to be a great mom.</b><b>Cause that's what's most important to him.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>Have you, have you seen, has he, um, does</b><b>he do more domestic stuff than like our</b><b>generation or your generation is the guy?</b><b>Cause I feel like millennial men will do</b><b>more like, um, do dishes, vacuum, do</b><b>diapers, like they'll help out more around</b><b>the house, that generation than</b><b>Gen X men and boomer men did.</b><b>Have you observed any of that?</b><b>Were the, were, were the difference?</b><b>Like I'm big into that always.</b><b>Oh, really?</b><b>You've always helped.</b><b>Oh, well, yeah.</b><b>You know, five kids, seven years.</b><b>Oh, true.</b><b>We're doing dishes.</b><b>We had a regiment and I</b><b>think it's very important.</b><b>There's a lot of talk</b><b>about successful people.</b><b>They've all done chores and</b><b>that way forget about the money.</b><b>You make whatever they've done.</b><b>Sure.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You have to have some responsibility</b><b>feeling you're part of a team.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>That kind of, that's what we've always told</b><b>our kids is you're part of the</b><b>helping the household run.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So important.</b><b>I mean, a lot of statistics are coming out</b><b>after they look over all these years.</b><b>Interesting.</b><b>But she's real good.</b><b>I mean, it's bedlam</b><b>right now in a good way.</b><b>They've got this beautiful 80 pound</b><b>Anatolian shepherd who used to be the king</b><b>of the castle because everybody, you know,</b><b>and they got the two and a half year old</b><b>who's cutest can be, but oh boy.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then this little four month old.</b><b>So they're a beautiful home.</b><b>Nice home, but you know what?</b><b>One more kid.</b><b>We got to get a new house.</b><b>It's not big enough.</b><b>Um, I think she's real</b><b>good about keeping that up.</b><b>I don't know.</b><b>And he, um, is a partner.</b><b>My wife's brother never got married.</b><b>Great guy has a kitchen, bath and cabinet</b><b>company and they're doing a good job.</b><b>And he's a partner in that firm.</b><b>So, um, it's nice being an entrepreneur.</b><b>He's done it now eight, nine, 10 years.</b><b>Um, my brother-in-laws in his later</b><b>fifties, it's, you know, it was going to be</b><b>Austin's business or that's wonderful.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's he with another partner's gentleman</b><b>that that that's their third wonderful,</b><b>but Austin, so he gets up and out early and</b><b>works, but comes home at four o'clock</b><b>and he's on duty from then.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>And then, you know, the</b><b>weekends, they seem to make it work.</b><b>They really do.</b><b>That's great.</b><b>But I think to answer your question, I</b><b>don't think he's doing a lot of things</b><b>around there.</b><b>He's, you know, when I was</b><b>there with him, he was pretty good.</b><b>But I think based on the list that was on</b><b>the refrigerator, he had the</b><b>instructions on how to do it right.</b><b>And he properly followed them.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's funny.</b><b>Um, now I was going to, you had mentioned</b><b>about, we've talked about your parents,</b><b>but we haven't discussed, um, were they</b><b>around for your children when they were</b><b>born, like were they</b><b>grandparents for your children?</b><b>Were they were, they happened to live in</b><b>Naples until they got older.</b><b>One had Alzheimer's one had a multitude of</b><b>maladies that ended up being dementia.</b><b>And we moved them up to Virginia where</b><b>there was two sisters that were great</b><b>with them and a brother that lived kind of</b><b>close as opposed to just me down here.</b><b>But they were able to experience it, but</b><b>it's different because seeing her, my</b><b>wife's family, they were all about it.</b><b>Mm.</b><b>You know, the big Italian</b><b>Bernie Panella did well.</b><b>He was a smart man, had beautiful homes.</b><b>Life was good.</b><b>They're calling you.</b><b>Hey, you want to take Jersey out?</b><b>We'll take the kids.</b><b>My parents were burned out.</b><b>Love the kids.</b><b>No problem.</b><b>Did it, but they were burned out.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So were they more like they would visit and</b><b>then, yeah, they were like that.</b><b>They were like that.</b><b>And it was cool because they actually lived</b><b>in this really nice community</b><b>for several years on the same street.</b><b>And my father and mother and my wife's</b><b>stepfather and mother were great friends.</b><b>Oh, that's awesome.</b><b>It was again, very nice.</b><b>Wonderful.</b><b>It was.</b><b>And he, my dad had so much</b><b>respect for her stepfather.</b><b>He was a really smart man.</b><b>And he would be that guy that you'd want to</b><b>sit down with him and hey, dad,</b><b>I'm going to buy a car.</b><b>Hey dad, how do I finance this?</b><b>Or I'm putting this guy, he was the rock.</b><b>But anyway, my dad loved it.</b><b>And you know, he sold to the military.</b><b>And then my dad was military.</b><b>It was a, it was a wild thing.</b><b>And that was enjoyable because we'd have</b><b>these parties and everybody came together.</b><b>That's lovely.</b><b>Actually the hands on stuff, like we're</b><b>getting the kids as much as possible.</b><b>And I'm taking them to the golf course,</b><b>insurance is wheeling around.</b><b>We're having fun with it.</b><b>My parents are like, yeah, yeah, not bad.</b><b>They just wouldn't know.</b><b>I think there's two</b><b>approaches, two approaches.</b><b>And, um, and it's interesting to when you</b><b>see what your parents, you don't</b><b>know how your parents</b><b>are going to react, right?</b><b>Until you have children and</b><b>then you're like, oh, okay.</b><b>You're, you're like that, you know?</b><b>And then, so now did her</b><b>family also live in Naples?</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>Matter of fact, sister that I went to</b><b>college with lived in Naples,</b><b>lives in Naples and her parents too.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>That's so wonderful.</b><b>Remember they got them down here.</b><b>No, I know.</b><b>But the, um, parents though, their, her</b><b>parents too also live down here.</b><b>They move first.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>They were the parents move.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Okay. Correct.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>So the pair, oh, I</b><b>thought it was just the sister.</b><b>So the parents moved here.</b><b>First brother came down.</b><b>Oh, the brother.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And then the sister came then.</b><b>This was, you know, 30 years and 20 some</b><b>years ago, because I was the last.</b><b>And that was 25, which</b><b>seems like yesterday.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's what happens.</b><b>We've been here a while</b><b>and it's like almost 20.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It goes so fast.</b><b>So fast.</b><b>So when did your parents come down?</b><b>Um, you know, they were, that was probably</b><b>like, um, we've been here 25</b><b>year, maybe five years after that.</b><b>They started in Cape coral, bought a couple</b><b>properties, moved down.</b><b>And that's where they'd all kind of</b><b>happened in Naples where</b><b>they were all together.</b><b>And did any of your</b><b>siblings also move down?</b><b>No, they're, they're, they're mainly, uh,</b><b>either, uh, Richmond, Virginia,</b><b>outside of Baltimore, um, once in South</b><b>Carolina, it's a little bit dispersed</b><b>now, but we still see</b><b>each other fair amount.</b><b>It was, you know, with their parents</b><b>passing a couple of years ago, there's</b><b>a little bit of a miss now because there</b><b>was always a reason to be there, but the</b><b>connection is still great.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>And with social media and everything too,</b><b>that helps so much, you know, keep in</b><b>touch and keep in contact.</b><b>When does your parents, um, who</b><b>came down with dementia first?</b><b>My father.</b><b>And how old was he?</b><b>Late seventies.</b><b>That's early.</b><b>It feels early.</b><b>And it was a rough 10 years.</b><b>He had it for 10 years.</b><b>He lived till late eighties.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And when, what about your mom?</b><b>She had it later than him, but she had all</b><b>these issues, broken backs.</b><b>She, she unfortunately, such a wonderful</b><b>woman fell into just started with back</b><b>and then multiple</b><b>surgeries in the medicine impacts.</b><b>And then, you know, so just turned into</b><b>more and then eventually dementia.</b><b>But my dad, we had</b><b>really good medical care.</b><b>So he was on a couple of the medicines, air</b><b>accept, and I forget the other one.</b><b>Early.</b><b>So it wasn't like he wasn't cognitive.</b><b>He was, but he wasn't, he got quiet because</b><b>he wouldn't remember what he was</b><b>saying in sentences and he</b><b>didn't want to feel like that guy.</b><b>So he got quiet, but he'd</b><b>always remember you and so forth.</b><b>And he was this guy, like I said, he knew</b><b>it with his, the wife from the</b><b>get my mother from the get go, he died.</b><b>Three months to the day after she died.</b><b>And you know, he had no reason to be, I</b><b>mean, physically he was still okay,</b><b>but you lose that will to live.</b><b>Where were they married?</b><b>Do you know?</b><b>Yeah, they were married in 1959.</b><b>So yeah.</b><b>So that had to be, what is that?</b><b>41 years today.</b><b>It's a 60 something late six, 60.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I think they had a</b><b>really good relationship.</b><b>I really do.</b><b>Did you, did, um, you guys use the services</b><b>down in South Florida then</b><b>for him when he had dementia, right?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>We were able to fortunate that financially</b><b>we could afford a concierge doctor</b><b>who happens to be a friend who happened to</b><b>be brilliant, to be quite honest with you.</b><b>Um, and he, he took care of his care until</b><b>it got to the point that a lot of it here,</b><b>I was still working, still having kids and</b><b>my parents had a large house and I'd</b><b>get calls all the time, certain things</b><b>needed to be maintained.</b><b>And of course you want to help them out,</b><b>but it got to be a lot.</b><b>My mom was constantly going into either</b><b>hospitals or rehab centers.</b><b>And interesting point.</b><b>Cause my wife, God bless</b><b>her said, JD, you've changed.</b><b>You're taking this too much.</b><b>You're being short with your family.</b><b>Something's got to give it a Webex call</b><b>with the four brothers and sisters.</b><b>They took over in a like wonderful brothers</b><b>and sisters would, and you know, sold</b><b>their house, moved them up there.</b><b>The two girls girls would take care of you.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Care of that.</b><b>Not that the boys won't, but guess what?</b><b>I'll take my two sisters.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Managed about care.</b><b>I was going to take, I'll take</b><b>my daughter managing my care.</b><b>Keep your daughter close.</b><b>But yeah, so that was tough to see that,</b><b>but thank God they had great care.</b><b>That's good.</b><b>A lot of love, but God, it's hard.</b><b>You can't describe to</b><b>someone how torturous that is.</b><b>Torturous.</b><b>Good work.</b><b>Until they've gone through it.</b><b>You've gone through it.</b><b>Um, and, and just, it's</b><b>like a double death, right?</b><b>Cause you're losing them and in real time</b><b>watching it and then you lose them.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, it's hard for me to say, especially</b><b>with my dad, cause he's the one who</b><b>taught my mom was big supportive, but this</b><b>faith thing has changed my life in</b><b>so many good ways and doesn't matter what</b><b>faith you have turned out to be the</b><b>person that what my father tried to do with</b><b>us or did with us and a lot of it</b><b>was spirituality, but</b><b>it was more your actions.</b><b>Uh, that's all, you know,</b><b>that's, that's what I care about.</b><b>And that's what.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So when did you, your Eucharist</b><b>Eucharistic minister, correct?</b><b>Correct.</b><b>When did you start on that journey?</b><b>Um, directly tied to my parents.</b><b>Um, it was really important that they get</b><b>the body of Christ in their various</b><b>facilities, they were graduated.</b><b>So they started and you know where it was,</b><b>you could still live in your same</b><b>thing and then it moved up to you could</b><b>live in the same thing, but you had to</b><b>have help and then they had</b><b>to, you know, that kind of thing.</b><b>And, um, these wonderful people would come</b><b>into the facilities and they'd give the</b><b>body of Christ to my dad or my mom, or even</b><b>before it got too bad, they'd have</b><b>this beautiful group that would just join</b><b>in the little, little room that they had</b><b>there and all the people that were going</b><b>through the same things.</b><b>They'd have a little reading and it was,</b><b>was maybe a song or two or whatever.</b><b>And that meant a lot.</b><b>So when, when I saw that and got to talk to</b><b>him, it was kind of moving.</b><b>And then you, you know, as a Catholic, you</b><b>believe that is the body of Christ.</b><b>And I do.</b><b>And to see that miracle happen at that</b><b>point, I felt that that's something</b><b>that I wanted to do, um, for, for both</b><b>those reasons, it's probably the most</b><b>rewarding, but it's, it's</b><b>also a little bit challenging.</b><b>Did you, did you do it for them or that was</b><b>just your motivation after that to,</b><b>to be able to do that for others?</b><b>Like he means literally, did you give them</b><b>the Eucharist yourself?</b><b>My parents?</b><b>No, it was no, no, thanks for clarifying.</b><b>No, I didn't.</b><b>That would have been great.</b><b>That would have been great.</b><b>But, um, it's the greatest, it's probably</b><b>the greatest thing, but it's also just a</b><b>little bit, you know, you,</b><b>you're seeing what's happening.</b><b>And as you're on that road, when it goes</b><b>down there, there's some great discussions</b><b>you have, but it's also just to get an</b><b>older process and it being, you know, you</b><b>try to avoid it as much as you can.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But now I'm right in the middle of that and</b><b>you meet some good people and have</b><b>lost, and it's, uh, it's a, it's a little</b><b>challenging, but probably one of the most</b><b>wonderful things I've done.</b><b>It's a commitment.</b><b>You know, my Sundays are definitely not,</b><b>you know, what do you do?</b><b>Are you going to hospitals and</b><b>no, I, what I do is I actually go to</b><b>various people's homes.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Either generally can't make it to church.</b><b>So the church has a program that you will</b><b>come and you will, you know, do a reading</b><b>for them or talk to them.</b><b>It doesn't have to be</b><b>this big grandiose thing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But the reality is you tell them what's</b><b>happening, the message from that Sunday,</b><b>and then you give them the body of Christ.</b><b>That's wild.</b><b>It is.</b><b>It's a, it's probably, you</b><b>know, we've done a lot of things.</b><b>My wife and I, she's got a good heart.</b><b>We've done a lot of things on the outside.</b><b>This is probably one of the more rewarding</b><b>in terms of the connection is one, you</b><b>know, I'm sitting there driving around and</b><b>I'm like, this is unbelievable, man.</b><b>I've always taken it and I get it, but I'm</b><b>like, you know what, man, I could, the</b><b>guy that I'm giving this to or the woman</b><b>I'm giving this to, this is the body of</b><b>Christ, man.</b><b>So yeah.</b><b>So when you leave, are you leaving, um,</b><b>energized and ready for the day and you</b><b>feel good, or do you leave kind of like</b><b>maybe not necessarily with the heavy</b><b>heart, but like a real reflective mind of</b><b>like, wow, that was pretty heavy.</b><b>And you know what I mean?</b><b>There's a difference there.</b><b>One's like, let's go take on the day.</b><b>That was amazing.</b><b>The other is that was amazing.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>I need to kind of gather my thoughts.</b><b>Love the question.</b><b>Cause I now actually think of that because</b><b>one always believed, always believe, but</b><b>you know, there's nobody I</b><b>love more than Jesus Christ.</b><b>There's nobody, you know, and as much as I</b><b>love my wife and kids, it's hard to even,</b><b>but it has brought me that much closer to,</b><b>I believe as you know, the savior and</b><b>it's the greatest</b><b>thing, the greatest thing.</b><b>And it's the thing that makes most sense in</b><b>the world that to me sometimes makes</b><b>me a little bit down.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And being able to have that closeness to</b><b>that has been super rewarding.</b><b>Um, the greatest I've met some, some good</b><b>people and I like it.</b><b>Selfishly sometimes I sit</b><b>there and go, it's Sunday.</b><b>I'm limited.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Uh, it makes me feel bad that I feel that</b><b>way, but we're all sinners.</b><b>Exactly.</b><b>And I don't really bad.</b><b>Um, but I do feel good cause I know it's</b><b>super important to them.</b><b>And again, I'm sitting there driving with</b><b>the pics they're called and it is the</b><b>body of Christ and I took that not for</b><b>granted cause I've always respected and</b><b>cherished that, but at the same time I'm</b><b>driving around and I'm giving that to</b><b>somebody to experience that</b><b>is, is, is a beautiful thing.</b><b>And that's why I think priests and servers</b><b>and deacons feel this thing.</b><b>Cause there's, sure, especially priests</b><b>think what you got to give up and a lot</b><b>of things, but I think that that is</b><b>probably what's a big thing about it.</b><b>Think about what they're doing, burying</b><b>people and counseling people that have</b><b>had tragedies.</b><b>So anyway, great question.</b><b>I don't know if I leave energized, I leave</b><b>feeling closer to Christ and that more</b><b>important to me than anything.</b><b>It's almost like you become a Brinks truck.</b><b>It's that valuable.</b><b>It's more valuable than, you know, the</b><b>Brinks trucks that have the money, but</b><b>you're, yeah, you're, you're, it's more</b><b>valuable than what's in a Brinks truck.</b><b>You know, it's the body of Christ.</b><b>A hundred percent.</b><b>It's like, you know, you can't, you have to</b><b>be careful with that.</b><b>There's certain things around it.</b><b>You can't keep it overnight.</b><b>Now, if you drop it or there's all there,</b><b>it's the body of Christ and there is</b><b>there, there's history behind it, but yet</b><b>you're a hundred percent right.</b><b>And that feels, it</b><b>feels really, really good.</b><b>It's an awesome responsibility.</b><b>It really is.</b><b>But I mean, it's amazing that, that you're</b><b>doing that and giving it's such</b><b>an incredible gift you're giving to people.</b><b>And I'm sure it does bring you so much</b><b>closer to your own faith.</b><b>It does.</b><b>And that makes me super happy because I</b><b>always believed and always tried to pay</b><b>forward, but the reality of it is I want</b><b>that closer because that's goodness.</b><b>And sometimes like, you know, I like, I've</b><b>had to take myself off certain</b><b>applications, social media platforms,</b><b>because I'm getting drawn into police</b><b>chases or fights and I</b><b>understand it's like healthy.</b><b>No, no, you have to be careful where you</b><b>can assume mentally and spiritually.</b><b>For sure.</b><b>100%.</b><b>Have you been there when people have</b><b>passed, you give less rights?</b><b>No, no, no.</b><b>That's just the priest, right?</b><b>That's correct.</b><b>That's a sacrament, right?</b><b>I had just a quickie cause this will come</b><b>full circle and it's just amazing to me.</b><b>I had a gentleman in my neighborhood whose</b><b>wife I know cause we did the HOA in</b><b>our neighborhood together</b><b>and she was real nice lady.</b><b>And when she heard that I became a</b><b>Eucharistic minister, she's like, Hey, do</b><b>you mind being, take care of my husband?</b><b>Who's a nice guy.</b><b>He had some heart problems like 80.</b><b>So I got to know him through her and you</b><b>know, we knew he wasn't in great</b><b>shape, but you know,</b><b>he's 80 and he got around.</b><b>Well, anyway, I come or a</b><b>call to say, Hey, I'm on my way.</b><b>She goes, don't come.</b><b>He passed away and I'm</b><b>like, Oh, I'm so sorry.</b><b>I didn't know, but you know, whatever.</b><b>And she goes, I gotta tell you something.</b><b>And I'm like, what?</b><b>She goes, Jadie, his name was Maurice.</b><b>Her name's Alicia.</b><b>She said, he's in bed and he calls me and</b><b>he goes, honey, lay down.</b><b>And hold their hands.</b><b>And she, he died holding her hand and they</b><b>were kind of like what we were</b><b>talking about, you feel about your wife or</b><b>whatever he knew it was coming.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>And he said, hold my hand.</b><b>And I, it's almost hard to believe, but</b><b>this, this, I know this woman.</b><b>Um, and yeah, so, so to be able to be</b><b>feeling things like that.</b><b>And I know they were good, a Cuban people</b><b>that were successful, great grandparents,</b><b>but the net of it is, and I'm sure they had</b><b>bumps in the road, but that love and</b><b>that, that, that bond through their faith.</b><b>God knows it's coming.</b><b>Hold my hand.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>What a trust me away.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>True story.</b><b>So it's, you're right.</b><b>It's amazing.</b><b>That's, that's what, what I would want.</b><b>I would want that.</b><b>If I had to pick, we would</b><b>go at the exactly same time.</b><b>Wonderful.</b><b>You guys have such good energy.</b><b>A hundred years old, our kids are fine.</b><b>Everything's good.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>We're done.</b><b>I'm not dying.</b><b>So if I'm Catholic, just, you know, so, um,</b><b>in a pinch, if it was like the</b><b>middle of the desert, could you give last</b><b>rights or can you can't, you can't, you</b><b>can offer comfort, but you</b><b>cannot do the performance.</b><b>What is the, I was a race Catholic.</b><b>I I'm, I'm not at this point.</b><b>Um, what is the significance of the last</b><b>rights in, in that context?</b><b>I'll let you know that it</b><b>has to be done by a priest.</b><b>Well, I mean, you know, you're being, it's</b><b>a sacrament you're passing on, but</b><b>you know, you're forgiven,</b><b>you know, that kind of a thing.</b><b>Honestly, I wish I knew more, but, um,</b><b>it's, it's part of the process and you're</b><b>at you're, you're, you're with a holy</b><b>person as you are passing on.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And it's a beautiful thing.</b><b>And again, I think if there's any thing you</b><b>want to say or anything you</b><b>ask, even carrying with you or any, oh</b><b>yeah, almost like a, not a last</b><b>confessional, but if you're</b><b>caught, I guess you're not right.</b><b>You're not lucid at that point.</b><b>Well, you could be, it's a good point.</b><b>Honestly, I'm not aware enough, but yeah, I</b><b>want to even find out.</b><b>Cause the great thing about this journey</b><b>too is I've learned so much more and I've</b><b>never made the time.</b><b>I love the stories.</b><b>I love the history.</b><b>Oh, if you take the time to really learn</b><b>about, it's fascinating.</b><b>It's really fascinating.</b><b>But like the sacraments like baptism,</b><b>communion, reconciliation, confession,</b><b>marriage, um, last rights, confirmation.</b><b>You got them all.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's it.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Last rights is one of those, right?</b><b>Okay.</b><b>It's on that level.</b><b>It's on that level.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah, exactly.</b><b>So I think that's, I've thought about that</b><b>when I've been at church.</b><b>I've thought maybe in</b><b>my future, I'll do that.</b><b>The Eucharistic is probably one of the</b><b>better things I've ever done.</b><b>One connection to my parents.</b><b>How about that?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But more importantly, Oh my God, I love</b><b>everything about what this guy did and</b><b>stands for, and I hope we, no matter what</b><b>fate, no matter what color, let's just,</b><b>let's do what this guy was</b><b>talking about and love it on man.</b><b>And, and, and, and, and, you know, in our</b><b>time in place, and don't you think you're</b><b>doing, we've talked about family.</b><b>That's what you've done to yours.</b><b>That's what I've tried to do to mine.</b><b>I've always told Brian, cause he's not a</b><b>practicing Catholic, but I'm like, you're</b><b>more Catholic than a lot of Catholics</b><b>because by his actions, he's lived the</b><b>Catholic, but that's my,</b><b>that's sort of the rub for me.</b><b>That's my problem.</b><b>Well, he has his own.</b><b>I know I am, but I, it's, you know, he, you</b><b>know, it does take effort and there's</b><b>something to say about that, but at the</b><b>same time, that's not what matters.</b><b>It matters your actions and who you are.</b><b>Cause you know, this is why I'm saying all</b><b>this faith fighting and race stuff.</b><b>I get that it's part of life, but when you</b><b>peel that back, you know, you have to</b><b>go to church to do that, or you don't have</b><b>to do what kind of where I fall on it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But, but I mean, you might</b><b>feel better making the efforts.</b><b>I know I always feel closer to Jesus when</b><b>I'm doing those things.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>I've got a wife that if there's a hurricane</b><b>or a flood or something, she's</b><b>on the phone getting stuff together.</b><b>And then you go do something and I go, God,</b><b>I feel so good about what we're doing,</b><b>but closer to you.</b><b>And at the same time you help</b><b>in somebody, how do you feel?</b><b>I don't think there's much better.</b><b>So the only reason I'm saying that Brian,</b><b>that does take some effort.</b><b>Good.</b><b>Well, I do think I know that, um, you know,</b><b>between Naples and here, there's a</b><b>large, uh, native American reservation, the</b><b>Micah Sukey tribe is out there, I</b><b>think. Um, and I think you've told me how</b><b>you've done some volunteer work there.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Have you done like the</b><b>kitchen or soup type of thing?</b><b>Tell her about that.</b><b>Cause I remember you telling me about that.</b><b>It's like, wow, that's really cool.</b><b>But I remember you also saying</b><b>it's kind of heavy cause it's,</b><b>Oh God.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's a mockly.</b><b>So it's not, so there is a casino now and</b><b>mock a mockily, but you know what I</b><b>mean, but it's in the city of a mockly.</b><b>Have you guys ever been to a meeting?</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>That's where a lot of it's.</b><b>I've been in the area,</b><b>but we've hiked down there.</b><b>I've gone to like Everglade city.</b><b>I've done the whole, that whole area.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Um, we've come in from, what is it?</b><b>41, uh, between Nate,</b><b>you know, the old high.</b><b>Well, if you were on alligator alley guys</b><b>coming to that area, it's exit eight.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And you go five miles.</b><b>What is that?</b><b>I think it's north, right?</b><b>Is that, well, north or definitely west.</b><b>Not, not, not, uh, you</b><b>know, no, it's in east.</b><b>Anyway, the point of it is, it is a, where</b><b>a lot of the migrants, um, are, are, are</b><b>picking in the field.</b><b>So it's a lot of that.</b><b>And you know, because the casinos there,</b><b>there's all those issues with that,</b><b>but it's very poor.</b><b>It's very poor.</b><b>So it was a church related thing.</b><b>It's called the Guadalupe center.</b><b>And they're wonderful with</b><b>their outreach and so forth.</b><b>So interestingly enough, that's one of the</b><b>things I was able to do with my dad</b><b>early on before he started getting sick.</b><b>So it was, it was, you know, doing it with</b><b>your family was really cool.</b><b>Another way you can feel closer, but</b><b>feeding is always such a good thing.</b><b>You know, and you also run into a lot of</b><b>these businesses that supported</b><b>this Guadalupe center, you know, like a</b><b>public, you know, you don't know if you</b><b>know what's behind the</b><b>scenes, but they're pretty good.</b><b>They're pretty good, man.</b><b>And I appreciate when that truck rolls in</b><b>and it says it's not expired,</b><b>but they're not selling anymore.</b><b>Someone's eating it.</b><b>So anyway, I really liked that side of it.</b><b>So that's what it was.</b><b>It was a mockly and</b><b>there's a lot of needs there.</b><b>It's a, it's a rough and</b><b>tough kind of situation.</b><b>We have a place here called Boca helping</b><b>hands and public there for the,</b><b>it's for the homeless and</b><b>people who are in need of food.</b><b>Publix delivers so much there.</b><b>It's amazing.</b><b>Like I seem to do it right.</b><b>That founder.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, it's great.</b><b>Maybe they've become part of the community.</b><b>They are part of the world.</b><b>Supporting part of the Florida community.</b><b>They hire a lot of different kind of folks,</b><b>you know what I mean?</b><b>Some with special needs.</b><b>I like that.</b><b>And hopefully it's a, it's good, but I</b><b>mean, yeah, no, it's a good company.</b><b>So as your, um, oh, I was going to ask, you</b><b>said that your wife went back to</b><b>work after your kids, what did she do?</b><b>She was bookkeeper for the</b><b>kitchen, bath and cabinet company.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Perfect.</b><b>And then surprisingly enough,</b><b>guess when she stopped working?</b><b>Grandchildren.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's a great excuse.</b><b>I love it.</b><b>I love it.</b><b>I love it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And again, never happier.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>And then your daughter's</b><b>getting married in January.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Um, and will they stay here</b><b>or to where you live in Naples?</b><b>They live in Fort Myers,</b><b>about 30 minutes away from us.</b><b>Um, she lives, it's pretty close to that</b><b>Florida golf coast where she's at.</b><b>And that's cool.</b><b>Cause if you go up there,</b><b>it's a pretty vibrant campus.</b><b>Oh, it's amazing.</b><b>We toured it.</b><b>I love it.</b><b>Well, that was back with, um, Nathan.</b><b>So that was like years ago.</b><b>We're going to be touring</b><b>it this year with Dylan.</b><b>Trying to get him to go there.</b><b>Well, hey, by the way, let me know.</b><b>Cause my daughter will get you set up.</b><b>Oh, perfect.</b><b>Counselor.</b><b>And what's so funny is so she went there,</b><b>but went there early, got out of high</b><b>school after three years.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>And then went there to whatever and joined</b><b>a sorority changed her life.</b><b>All good.</b><b>Now she's counseling there.</b><b>It's like, that's wonderful.</b><b>And I've seen the college</b><b>go to your point, Brian.</b><b>It's well-funded.</b><b>Yeah. You've got to tell you,</b><b>it's they're building.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, safe.</b><b>It's safe.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So every experience I take the little guy</b><b>there to we've had lunch or drop, you</b><b>know, combined see, uh, anti-ally at</b><b>Florida golf coach with the two year old,</b><b>which of course she loves, but I mean,</b><b>everything feels really good at Florida</b><b>golf coast, so it's a</b><b>nice option for you guys.</b><b>No, we're going to definitely, he knows</b><b>we're going to go, um, check it out.</b><b>So your daughter graduated a year early.</b><b>She did.</b><b>She went through some tough times in high</b><b>school, a little bit of</b><b>bullying.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Was tough.</b><b>Another reason why, and it was up, we sent</b><b>them to this nice private school.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, some of it may have been self-inflicted</b><b>to be honest with you.</b><b>You know how you interact with you,</b><b>whatever, but, and I don't mean to make</b><b>judgment because everything ends up working</b><b>out or at least it did in this</b><b>regard, but she just had a</b><b>tough run, um, the last year or so.</b><b>And it just so happened that Florida golf</b><b>coast had this program had nothing to do</b><b>with, with that in</b><b>particular, but she's smart girl.</b><b>She writes well, she's creative.</b><b>And it was this type of thing that they</b><b>made available that, that I don't</b><b>know if it was, she went free</b><b>or we had to pay a certain part.</b><b>I don't remember, but all I know is the</b><b>timing couldn't have been better.</b><b>And she loved it.</b><b>Ended up being a, uh,</b><b>what do they call them?</b><b>The fraternity, one of the girls that helps</b><b>the, the, the, the sorority members,</b><b>you know, coast, the parties</b><b>and all those kinds of things.</b><b>So she got to, she got to do that.</b><b>Then she was in a sorority, a lot of the,</b><b>her friends from there.</b><b>So it was a great experience.</b><b>I'm happy that that worked out.</b><b>That's wonderful because now, I mean, our</b><b>daughter also went through</b><b>some stuff like that, just, I think when</b><b>girl, when there's mean girls involved,</b><b>it's vicious and it can be so, it's, you</b><b>know, that by the way.</b><b>Oh yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, it, it, it's, it's, it's a, I call it</b><b>quiet bullying when girls bully because</b><b>when boys bully, it's more obvious, but</b><b>with girls, it's more, um, behind the</b><b>scenes of indicative stuff, but it can be,</b><b>um, it can cause depression.</b><b>It can be horrible.</b><b>So, well, I think, yeah, and you have to, I</b><b>always tell parents of daughters, you</b><b>need to watch out for that because there</b><b>can be things going on.</b><b>You don't even realize.</b><b>And then all, and that's where the</b><b>communication comes in with your kids.</b><b>And that's where it's</b><b>like, you need to talk to me.</b><b>You need to tell me what's going on.</b><b>And so, um, I'm glad that works out because</b><b>girls will just drop friends.</b><b>They'll be like, I'm</b><b>not your friend anymore.</b><b>That's hurtful, especially some of them</b><b>are, you know, they go camp together for</b><b>years.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But she's again, my daughter handled it.</b><b>It came out real well.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>It really, really is testament to, cause I</b><b>think my wife, I know my wife had a lot.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Well, you know what I'm saying?</b><b>I was more like, Oh, be</b><b>a phase and it will pass.</b><b>Still try to be a good dad,</b><b>but she talked to my wife.</b><b>That's the key.</b><b>Back to the point.</b><b>That's the most important.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That is.</b><b>I'm like, I go to my wife.</b><b>So why, you know, especially with my son,</b><b>you know, sports and all that, and we're</b><b>all getting along really well, but I'm</b><b>like, I don't, why is this alley?</b><b>You're, you're definitely</b><b>the favorite in my life.</b><b>I always try to be that guy.</b><b>She's like, Jady, man,</b><b>start taking her to lunch.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So I'm doing these things that you do.</b><b>And you know, sure enough, I did it and our</b><b>relationship turned into the, I, I</b><b>couldn't want anybody different than her</b><b>for a daughter, but it's funny.</b><b>My wife goes, dude, what is your problem?</b><b>In a good way.</b><b>You're good dad, but you're not making the</b><b>effort that you should have.</b><b>Or cause you're sitting here, come to me.</b><b>Why aren't I closer to.</b><b>So lesson learned.</b><b>So that goes back to my question.</b><b>When did that happen for you?</b><b>When did you, that epiphany happen where</b><b>you're like, all right, I got a</b><b>really, was that my</b><b>wife told me two years ago.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>10 years ago.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Maybe probably 10 plus years ago.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And we got along.</b><b>Wasn't like there's a bad thing, but I</b><b>mean, I don't think I was near as</b><b>helpful as my wife was, um, I tried, you</b><b>know, again, we had good family stuff,</b><b>but she was going through a</b><b>tough time and my wife managed it.</b><b>And I didn't realize the degree of which,</b><b>and I probably could have been more</b><b>helpful to be quite frank with you.</b><b>You just summed up our, my life, our life,</b><b>that relationship, because they're way</b><b>more, she's the one who's guided that.</b><b>And it's like, you really</b><b>need to put in a little time.</b><b>And man, that's a valid point because I'm</b><b>like, no one's ever told me that I'm</b><b>always the guy, whatever,</b><b>but I avoided that kind of.</b><b>Conflict for one, never</b><b>dealt with it personally.</b><b>If anything, I was always trying to hang</b><b>out with buddies and you might have a</b><b>bump here and there,</b><b>but I don't remember it.</b><b>And I don't remember</b><b>that at all with my son.</b><b>To your point, Nicole, I</b><b>think there were some mean girls.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Oh, usually there is.</b><b>That's usually what it is.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And a lot, usually</b><b>that stems from jealousy.</b><b>It's usually, that's what,</b><b>that's typically what it is.</b><b>If you go back to the root</b><b>of it, someone was jealous.</b><b>And so someone decided to</b><b>destroy your daughter's life.</b><b>That's pretty much how it is.</b><b>It follows on kind of.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>It's like Lord of the</b><b>Flies, but girl version.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And it's horrible.</b><b>It's horrible.</b><b>That yeah, it's very common.</b><b>It happens in middle school</b><b>and high school for girls.</b><b>And it's very, and then unfortunately, some</b><b>of these mean girls grow up to be</b><b>mean women and so you, but then by then you</b><b>can handle them, but you, I can</b><b>spot them a mile away.</b><b>You just know, like</b><b>keep them at arm's length.</b><b>Cause they're just like an energy thing.</b><b>Or for me, I can read now.</b><b>Like, yeah, you just, you</b><b>can tell just the way they are.</b><b>And I'm sure your wife</b><b>could also totally spot.</b><b>You're like, okay, I'm not</b><b>going to be good friends with her.</b><b>She'll say, and my outer</b><b>circle as a woman, you just know.</b><b>And it's unfortunate</b><b>that they have children.</b><b>And then they race mean girls.</b><b>I would be very upset.</b><b>I get it.</b><b>Cause God, you know, make the steak, Bob.</b><b>Uh, I wouldn't, my daughter was a bully.</b><b>I mean, how does that, I'm not going to</b><b>let, I would be front and center of that.</b><b>You can't do that.</b><b>But you're, that's the point.</b><b>You're not a bully.</b><b>You're not raising a bully, but there's</b><b>adults that grow up and they don't change.</b><b>And they say, generally that's it.</b><b>That you think that the mother was probably</b><b>the parent, the mother or the</b><b>parents, um, are, were probably bullies and</b><b>have not changed their ways, have</b><b>not grown as people and are just having</b><b>little people like them, like they</b><b>think it's fine.</b><b>They don't correct.</b><b>They're like, yeah, that's fine.</b><b>They don't correct.</b><b>Or they're insecure or they're jealous.</b><b>There's parents who are</b><b>jealous of other kids.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Like their kid, their, those kids might be</b><b>doing better at something than my kid.</b><b>They're jealous.</b><b>It's just, it's a horrible thing.</b><b>Talk about faith.</b><b>Like you were at the Nick game.</b><b>All this was happening.</b><b>No, but those daughter</b><b>daddy dates, I call them.</b><b>Um, there's been times where I'm like, you</b><b>need to take her on a</b><b>daughter, daughter, daddy date.</b><b>It's time.</b><b>And they go to lunch or they go to dinner</b><b>or they go do something.</b><b>And it's such a game changer.</b><b>I will say this Nicole.</b><b>And again, I've only met your daughter the</b><b>one time at that F one, but they,</b><b>that's, yeah.</b><b>And she's doll.</b><b>Thank you.</b><b>She's a sweetheart.</b><b>Well, you know, I'm from that school.</b><b>Nice to meet you.</b><b>And you're looking me in the eye and where,</b><b>where, you know what I mean?</b><b>I'm not trying to, yeah, I'm going to put</b><b>too much into it, but I, you know,</b><b>Oh really?</b><b>And you know, you're, you're, you're</b><b>generally going to talk to me and not just,</b><b>you know, no, she's a very authentic woman.</b><b>Young.</b><b>I call her a woman.</b><b>I saw a girl, but she's very authentic and</b><b>very genuine and very kind.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>There you go.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So she really, really is a good person.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, one of the first things she said</b><b>when she knew you were coming, she</b><b>goes, make sure and thank</b><b>him again for the F1 tickets.</b><b>I'll tell him how much I love it now.</b><b>And I said, I will.</b><b>I promise you did mention.</b><b>And again, I'll get you one of those days</b><b>because to see that that much fun.</b><b>And that is that's become such an event.</b><b>The only problem is Brian hot, right?</b><b>And it gets packed.</b><b>So you got to figure out</b><b>timing and things like that.</b><b>And you'll have a better experience.</b><b>Now we know what to do.</b><b>Well, and where to park dialed in.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You get what I mean?</b><b>Cause then there's you'll have, my second</b><b>year was a lot better than my first, even</b><b>the first was great, but yeah, we've</b><b>literally watched every race since then.</b><b>The two of us watch every race.</b><b>I recorded now, actually.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So before I asked my last question, do you</b><b>have any other questions?</b><b>I always have to ask him because I asked</b><b>him and he goes, I had a question.</b><b>I don't think so.</b><b>I think we've covered some ground here.</b><b>You know, you got everything.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>I think so.</b><b>My last question is always, where do you</b><b>see yourself in five years?</b><b>I would guess I had to guess</b><b>retirement, but I don't know.</b><b>So where do you see yourself in five years?</b><b>Definitely retired.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>You know, and again, I enjoy, I have such a</b><b>good working relationship.</b><b>If there was some</b><b>consulting, just to stay busy, fine.</b><b>But, um, we love the</b><b>working out type of thing.</b><b>My wife and I have really bonded that much</b><b>closer because we both love to</b><b>spend and love yoga, so we'll do classes</b><b>together and it's enjoyable.</b><b>Cause you know, you're, you're doing those</b><b>things and then, you know, you</b><b>meet the people there and like, they're</b><b>their hunts, you know?</b><b>So I know that we'll be doing a lot of that</b><b>together, which is good.</b><b>Cause we enjoy it and it's the healthy.</b><b>I'm sure there's going to</b><b>probably be some more travel.</b><b>Um, more time spent trying to</b><b>do the right thing for others.</b><b>I know that's a big part of it.</b><b>So I think we'll be busy.</b><b>I'll be doing a lot of golf.</b><b>There's no question.</b><b>Hopefully with JD junior.</b><b>Know what I mean?</b><b>And now he has those trainings.</b><b>He might be better than you.</b><b>Oh, I hope God, I pray.</b><b>So I pray so, but probably in a really good</b><b>place, probably still here.</b><b>We always thought about having a second</b><b>home and we're kind of planning on that</b><b>at some point and you never know, but with</b><b>Airbnb's and you could get</b><b>month here and there, my wife's not leaving</b><b>the children and there's no way.</b><b>And not yet.</b><b>I don't want to either, but I'm still</b><b>saying my dream is seasons.</b><b>I still can't get over missing.</b><b>See Brian.</b><b>I wanted to answer your question before I</b><b>have one for you, but that was how I see</b><b>myself retired and happy as can be.</b><b>And good friends and good family and just</b><b>hopefully trying to stay healthy.</b><b>And maybe more grandchildren.</b><b>That would be the, don't</b><b>mess up that wedding ceremony.</b><b>Cause that leads to</b><b>the grandchildren, right?</b><b>A lot of responsibility.</b><b>You know, what's interesting too.</b><b>My daughter, she'll make a</b><b>great mother, my opinion.</b><b>Cause you know, she</b><b>will, um, she's ready now.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And you know, she's,</b><b>she's 30 years old now.</b><b>So yeah, she's just turning 30 years old.</b><b>That's great.</b><b>She's from 30.</b><b>So yeah, but, but I could see that</b><b>happening and he's there.</b><b>He's done well.</b><b>He's smart kids.</b><b>Got a good job.</b><b>So I could see that happening, but yeah,</b><b>that would be awesome.</b><b>That's wonderful.</b><b>That's a, you're so blessed.</b><b>I really am.</b><b>And I, and you know, and</b><b>I'm appreciative of that.</b><b>Um, yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, it's wonderful.</b><b>Now you said you had a question for us.</b><b>You, cause I was talking to Brian about</b><b>this, especially now, knowing like that</b><b>Northern New Jersey thing that you live.</b><b>And I lived as idyllic, but I can remember</b><b>fall and smelling fireplaces.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>I can remember a snow days.</b><b>Yep.</b><b>A hundred percent.</b><b>And that was a lot more Northeast.</b><b>Right.</b><b>And you know, I moved down here and not</b><b>that that love, but move down here.</b><b>Love Florida.</b><b>Pretty hot.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>And a lot of the same</b><b>and a lot of that's good.</b><b>And you had mentioned, oh,</b><b>you can play sports year round.</b><b>I was doing that in the summer now.</b><b>But anyway, I always always</b><b>thought of that second home.</b><b>And then I go, Brian was telling me that</b><b>you grew up in the West and the Pacific</b><b>Northwest, you know, having worked for</b><b>Cisco for all these years, you know,</b><b>it's a lot of years as God's country.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>So I had family lived out</b><b>in Colorado, then California.</b><b>Why would you leave?</b><b>Well, I mean, I, I loved Oregon.</b><b>Um, where I grew up in Beaverton outside of</b><b>Portland, I loved growing up there.</b><b>Um, we met in college in</b><b>Ashland, Oregon, Oregon.</b><b>So are you guys okay?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>He came from Jersey to</b><b>Oregon to go to college.</b><b>Um, so that's where we met.</b><b>And Ashton, Oregon is this quaint little</b><b>Shakespearean festival town artsy hippie.</b><b>You got to go there.</b><b>Magical.</b><b>If you're ever near Ashton, it's 20 miles</b><b>north of the California border.</b><b>So if you're in the</b><b>redwoods area, it's amazing.</b><b>It's nice.</b><b>There's vineyards are out there.</b><b>It's gorgeous out there now.</b><b>If you want to be, but the whole</b><b>thing, but the, it's beautiful.</b><b>It's like she's saying it's 15, 20 miles</b><b>north of California, uh, border right on</b><b>I five, there are little</b><b>Shakespeare's festival there.</b><b>Wonderful park downtown area.</b><b>It's it's great.</b><b>Growing up in Oregon, you know, the thing</b><b>is when you grew up somewhere like Oregon,</b><b>you almost don't realize how</b><b>beautiful it is until you leave.</b><b>And then you're like, wow, majestic, right?</b><b>Like you see a redwood</b><b>tree, you're changed.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Well, that's Northern California, but even</b><b>in Oregon, it's just Douglas</b><b>furs and green, it's green, green, green.</b><b>The one thing I will say is it's a very</b><b>gray cause it rains about nine months</b><b>out of the year or so, like</b><b>eight months out of the year.</b><b>That's key then.</b><b>I didn't know.</b><b>I didn't know maybe eight months out there.</b><b>I'm going to Oregonian</b><b>say that's not right.</b><b>Uh, it rains a lot.</b><b>I didn't realize that I lived in gray.</b><b>You don't know you</b><b>live in gray and see Lee.</b><b>And then I moved to New Jersey with Brian</b><b>cause we had Nathan in Oregon, but then</b><b>we didn't want to raise him in Portland.</b><b>Understood.</b><b>It was starting to turn into a little bit</b><b>too much of a drug culture town, which</b><b>I'm sure you've seen what's</b><b>happened to Portland sense.</b><b>Um, and where he's from Sparta is kind of</b><b>like where you lived in Randolph,</b><b>this quaint little Lake community, super</b><b>safe, just ideal, like all that.</b><b>So we moved out to New</b><b>Jersey to raise children.</b><b>When I moved is when I realized, Oh, I was</b><b>living in gray cause in New Jersey,</b><b>even when it's cold in the winter, it still</b><b>could be a blue sky out.</b><b>Like I didn't realize how much</b><b>I needed a blue sky or I needed</b><b>more sun.</b><b>So, um, I love Oregon.</b><b>I will always love the Pacific Northwest,</b><b>but I don't think I could live in the gray</b><b>again.</b><b>So that's what it is in gray.</b><b>Cause you think that beautiful nature.</b><b>It's gorgeous.</b><b>And then one of the reasons it's so green</b><b>and so lush is cause it rains so much</b><b>and it, and the air is clean and all that.</b><b>Um, and that's just</b><b>what it's like up there.</b><b>It's just, it's like Seattle.</b><b>It's very rainy.</b><b>Um, it's gorgeous.</b><b>I love it, but I just,</b><b>I couldn't do it again.</b><b>Cause you do get seasons</b><b>there, but it's still gray seasons.</b><b>It does snow</b><b>sometimes, but it's still gray.</b><b>Like it is cool to like, if you're driving</b><b>in downtown Portland, I think it's</b><b>high five, you come around the corner and</b><b>right there's Mount Hood in the distance</b><b>and it's snow covered year round.</b><b>So that's amazing.</b><b>I don't know if you can still see St.</b><b>Helens or not.</b><b>I know it's erupted again</b><b>and may have shrunk, but St.</b><b>Helens is out there.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>You know, so as you're driving around,</b><b>there's these inactive volcanoes,</b><b>basically, but they're really cool.</b><b>I'd be on the freeway just driving and</b><b>there's the mountain.</b><b>It's like, it was just</b><b>like, yeah, that's right.</b><b>That's where it is.</b><b>But yeah, the different things, but you</b><b>just said it cause I couldn't do that</b><b>either, and you know what resonates because</b><b>spending time in England, it's gray.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Very much like that.</b><b>It's a lot, but you're a hundred percent.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>It's very much like that, you know, and</b><b>again, and I think there's a lot of</b><b>seasonal depression, not just in Oregon or</b><b>Washington, but anywhere like that.</b><b>Um, I just, I couldn't, but you know,</b><b>what's funny, you said about seasons.</b><b>I miss seasons too.</b><b>I do, but I do feel the seasons in Florida.</b><b>No, I do.</b><b>I feel when the break comes in the fall.</b><b>Um, and then of course winter.</b><b>We, that I feel, I don't know about the</b><b>break in the fall much.</b><b>You know, I did when we moved here.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But you know, different strokes.</b><b>I do love and</b><b>appreciate the sun and all that.</b><b>And you do not get me wrong, but you know,</b><b>in your mind, you're like, I'm</b><b>going to go be in the woods and Northwest</b><b>Oregon or Washington state.</b><b>And now they say British</b><b>Vancouver is the most big.</b><b>I just want what you don't have.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>But I'm not going anywhere</b><b>without, you know, the reality is</b><b>everything's a plane ride away.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I, it's great to go on like a</b><b>week or two vacation out there.</b><b>Airbnb, be it with the whole crew,</b><b>everything you would want.</b><b>You can get without living there.</b><b>You can go have that experience, but you</b><b>don't have to live in it.</b><b>You can get it in North Carolina.</b><b>I think you were in North Carolina with a</b><b>summer ride or South Carolina.</b><b>Well, wherever you were,</b><b>I drilled into that city.</b><b>You were in, what's really cool.</b><b>Greenville.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Greenville.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Um, I need, I want more</b><b>North just because I want cooler.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But again, uh, you know, I, who wants black</b><b>ice and all that kind of stuff.</b><b>But I just laugh how there</b><b>was four distinct seasons.</b><b>And maybe it was my youth too, at that age</b><b>where everything was looking good.</b><b>But God, Brian, I enjoyed that so much.</b><b>You knew spring, you knew summer, you knew</b><b>fall, you knew winter.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I love the different</b><b>clothes people are wearing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I miss that.</b><b>I miss the different,</b><b>like I wear all the things.</b><b>In January here, I'm like, where am I?</b><b>I wear everything or January, February.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>And I see other people doing it too, but,</b><b>um, you know, but in New Jersey,</b><b>at least you'd be in winter was like six</b><b>months or five months.</b><b>Like you'd be dealing in</b><b>the kids were inside so much.</b><b>I found it as a kid.</b><b>I have such fond memories, all wonderful</b><b>when it would snow getting the day.</b><b>What it would mean to come out in the</b><b>spring when it's like 60 degrees and</b><b>you're in shorts, cause it's not 30.</b><b>Right.</b><b>In the seasons.</b><b>But as a parent, as a dad, I hated it</b><b>because if it snows, I'm dealing with,</b><b>I'm the one dealing with the sidewalks, the</b><b>driveway, and then it melts.</b><b>And then it freezes again.</b><b>Now I'm dealing with</b><b>ice from a safety issue.</b><b>You know, so it's fair.</b><b>Cause I haven't, well, I take that back.</b><b>I lived in New York with the kids.</b><b>Long Island.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But then the raking, he, I remember in the</b><b>fall, he'd be raking almost every</b><b>weekend, like blowing the leaves.</b><b>Um, it was, we had time.</b><b>We lived kind of back into the woods.</b><b>We had a cool place that</b><b>our backyard was the woods.</b><b>And that was cool.</b><b>But he did spend a lot of</b><b>the fall just blowing leaves.</b><b>So he, he enjoyed he, and plus when we</b><b>moved here, he enjoyed the break from</b><b>not doing it.</b><b>And it was fun.</b><b>I don't mind doing leaves.</b><b>Honestly, I'm all, I'm okay with it because</b><b>we'd be out there with the</b><b>kids and they'd be rolling in it.</b><b>But now in New Jersey, they have ticks</b><b>ticks and Lyme disease.</b><b>So it's not like you're</b><b>like, don't roll in it.</b><b>Don't have fun.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Don't you can catch.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So in conclusion, we've all lived right</b><b>about perfect timing where there</b><b>wasn't, you know, I</b><b>remember ticks when I was there.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>It's a big thing.</b><b>Like, yeah, you got it.</b><b>Cause the deer, I've heard of it hugely.</b><b>And I think I've even come across a couple</b><b>of people have been dead.</b><b>You know, they're hurt because of it.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>My mom got limes when she was up there.</b><b>It was terrible.</b><b>She did.</b><b>It's amazing how much</b><b>she recovered, but yeah.</b><b>So we're like you,</b><b>we're not leaving the kids.</b><b>If the kids go to Oregon, I'm going Oregon.</b><b>She's, she's in that mode.</b><b>I'm like, I'm not leaving floor.</b><b>I would go.</b><b>I actually would go to, I</b><b>have my eye on like Chattanooga.</b><b>Maybe that Ashville area.</b><b>Turn me on to the Chattanooga.</b><b>It was nice.</b><b>I love it.</b><b>Chattanooga is cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Very cool town.</b><b>Very cool.</b><b>Give a shout out to what is it?</b><b>11 that was, I'm like, crew distillery</b><b>right in Chattanooga.</b><b>I went there.</b><b>Did you remember you told me to go there</b><b>and then there was the hotel.</b><b>I stayed at when that</b><b>river was right there.</b><b>I forget.</b><b>Oh, you stayed at the same hotel.</b><b>The Marriott.</b><b>It's kind of like a book.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>Great.</b><b>And you walk across that bridge, right</b><b>across the Tennessee river, I think.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But 11 whiskey at some of</b><b>the best whiskey I've ever had.</b><b>If anyone's around Chattanooga, go there</b><b>to, it's by the train.</b><b>Right.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Chattanooga.</b><b>Choo choo.</b><b>Hey Nicole, I'll end on this if</b><b>you want to end, which is great.</b><b>Cause this was fun, but part of the</b><b>Chattanooga, I love that, you know,</b><b>the whole Desmond Doss story.</b><b>No, he's that, um, the soldier that</b><b>wouldn't carry a gun.</b><b>Oh my God.</b><b>It's the most amazing story.</b><b>Uh, guy's name is Desmond Doss.</b><b>And he is this, it was a, I think I forget</b><b>the name of the movie</b><b>Hacksaw Ridge or whatever,</b><b>but you told me about this.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>But you got to watch the movie because</b><b>anyway, he just became, he, people</b><b>were against me, wouldn't carry a gun.</b><b>Anyway, he ended up being like one of the</b><b>bravest guys ever saved like 72</b><b>lives under fire, just crazy story.</b><b>Anyway, I would tell</b><b>everybody, this is my hero.</b><b>This is my hero.</b><b>So sure enough, that's where he's buried.</b><b>So when Brian said, check out Chattanooga,</b><b>that's where this gentleman's buried.</b><b>And I went and saw his grave and it was, it</b><b>just made the, cause I'm like, that's</b><b>who you want to be a guy that's gentle, but</b><b>it's a hero and then they had,</b><b>Oh my God, it was moving.</b><b>That's amazing.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Oh, I was meant to ask you,</b><b>did you go to your, um, lacrosse</b><b>coaches grave in Arlington?</b><b>Um, I did.</b><b>I haven't been there since they buried</b><b>them, but it was the one of the most.</b><b>Oh, you went to the service.</b><b>Oh God.</b><b>You guys have never forget it.</b><b>Horse drawn carrots.</b><b>Oh, no kidding fly over.</b><b>He was good.</b><b>He was like, I said, you guys, he.</b><b>Imagine just, I mean, you know, a manly man</b><b>thing I never experienced war.</b><b>Thank God.</b><b>But at the same time, he's</b><b>heroes that put it out on the line.</b><b>This guy bought Germans and planes and</b><b>fought Japanese and planes.</b><b>And, you know, just, you need</b><b>to challenge yourself as a man.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>So we have no clue.</b><b>No clue.</b><b>No clue.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>I, and I'll be the first to admit I would</b><b>never be a cop and I would never, I could</b><b>never sign up for, for an</b><b>armed service or thing like that.</b><b>I'm, I'm a guy's guy, but I'm not a guy, a</b><b>man's man or whatever, right?</b><b>Whatever that difference is.</b><b>I don't know what it is, but these guys</b><b>that, that have gone the war.</b><b>Flown over and, you</b><b>know, in planes, that's.</b><b>Hero.</b><b>They're heroes.</b><b>They give us, they gave us the life work.</b><b>We're sitting here having a podcast.</b><b>Thank you.</b><b>Yeah, exactly.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Absolutely.</b><b>100%, 100%.</b><b>And that's, you need to watch that movie</b><b>and you get a chance.</b><b>It's, it's, I mean, he's world famous.</b><b>I mean, and it's just real cause at the end</b><b>of the movie, they interview people</b><b>that, and they tell the real thing, like,</b><b>you know, cause he got just abused.</b><b>Everybody didn't want to be with him</b><b>because he wouldn't carry a gun.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Interesting.</b><b>Yeah. We'll have to check it out.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Check it out.</b><b>We'll have to watch that.</b><b>So that's a good note to end.</b><b>Oh, before you end it,</b><b>I'll just say thank you.</b><b>Really appreciate.</b><b>Oh, absolutely.</b><b>That's part of my.</b><b>Yes.</b><b>You don't go and you have a nice succinct</b><b>ending and wrap up, but I just,</b><b>thank you so much.</b><b>Awesome.</b><b>Just yes.</b><b>Really cool.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Really cool.</b><b>Nicole, you know, I, I know your husband</b><b>and you know, we've, we've, it's, it's</b><b>been fun, it's been, it's been good.</b><b>Cause you know, like you said, you talk</b><b>about business and you want to do the right</b><b>thing.</b><b>I just like that.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>When you get, when you have to go through</b><b>that and you're with people that are good</b><b>people that are fair people and you know,</b><b>it's wild to be able to be here.</b><b>So thanks.</b><b>Well, thank you for sharing</b><b>your story and your wisdom.</b><b>And, um, you know, I think a lot of people</b><b>are, a lot of our listeners will learn a</b><b>lot from some, some of the stuff you</b><b>shared, especially, um, professionally.</b><b>I think the wisdom you have when it comes</b><b>to your professional journey, um, and the</b><b>different aspects of sales and the</b><b>integrity that you bring to that role.</b><b>I think the younger</b><b>generations can learn a lot from that.</b><b>And so I really appreciate that you did</b><b>such a deep dive into that because, um, I</b><b>think there's aspects that, um, the younger</b><b>generations need to learn a little bit</b><b>more, um, about the meaning behind when</b><b>you're selling something, not just the</b><b>sale.</b><b>So I think you really, you</b><b>brought that to the forefront.</b><b>One, one thing I'll add to what we've seen</b><b>boomers get a, take a tough rap, um, say</b><b>in the comments and stuff, but I do think</b><b>you've represented the boomer as well.</b><b>And I think for our listeners, she, and</b><b>I've said it in other episodes where I've</b><b>said I've, I know some</b><b>boomers that are good people.</b><b>I think you've represented your, your</b><b>boomer generation well.</b><b>And I know you're not full of crap.</b><b>This is all genuine stuff.</b><b>And I've known JD for a few years now,</b><b>several years, 15, 18 years.</b><b>Probably.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>Wow.</b><b>I didn't know it was that long.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Well, and so much of what we</b><b>are about here is authenticity.</b><b>And so I can say to our listeners, we have</b><b>an authentic boomer in</b><b>here that's authentic.</b><b>And I think there are more, but I, I think</b><b>as Brian just said, you're such a great</b><b>example of someone that's coming from that</b><b>generation that gets it.</b><b>That's real.</b><b>That's, um, that can just relate with</b><b>anyone probably from any age and any</b><b>generation, and I think that, and you're</b><b>not all about yourself, you know, you,</b><b>you're, you're giving back, you, um, are</b><b>there to, to meet people halfway.</b><b>I just know that that's</b><b>how you approach life.</b><b>And, and I think there are</b><b>other boomers like you out there.</b><b>It's just that, unfortunately, the younger</b><b>generations encounter 10, not like that</b><b>before they come across one like you.</b><b>And so I think they get</b><b>discouraged, you know?</b><b>And so, um, I just, I'm so glad you came on</b><b>to share your story because</b><b>I appreciate that.</b><b>What, what are they, if I may ask, what,</b><b>what are they, what do you find?</b><b>Cause they're rude.</b><b>They're in general, again, I'm interested,</b><b>very rude service people like staff at</b><b>restaurants and stores,</b><b>centered, greedy, self-centered.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Greedy.</b><b>Fuck up the whole world.</b><b>I'm not even kidding.</b><b>There's a lot of people with an attitude of</b><b>the boomers, fuck it up for the rest of</b><b>us type of thing.</b><b>Excuse my French.</b><b>Did you know greatest</b><b>generation to boom or what?</b><b>No, greatest generation,</b><b>silent generation, boomer, Gen X.</b><b>So I was raised by silent generation.</b><b>Probably.</b><b>Probably.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No.</b><b>And I think there's a lot of, a</b><b>lot of good boomers out there.</b><b>Here's the thing.</b><b>There's a lot of good boomers, but the ones</b><b>that aren't are loud.</b><b>About it.</b><b>Okay.</b><b>And so they're the loud ones.</b><b>And then the other boomers are just living</b><b>their life like it, like the rest of us,</b><b>you know, but that's what's being projected</b><b>onto the younger generation.</b><b>Got it.</b><b>Part of it.</b><b>I think part of it is probably very</b><b>professionally driven, corporate driven in</b><b>that there's a lot of boomers still in</b><b>management roles and their tireless</b><b>workers, and they expect the same from the</b><b>people that they're managing so that they</b><b>don't, they don't get the</b><b>concept of work life balance, right?</b><b>They expect you to always be on and that's</b><b>part of the perception.</b><b>I don't know if it's as much as you, you</b><b>know, you're go down to the park and</b><b>Oh, let's stay clear of the boomers, but</b><b>it's, you know, that's sort of that</b><b>professional to see</b><b>what you guys have heard.</b><b>And it's good to know.</b><b>Cause you know what?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah. You don't know, right?</b><b>Why do that?</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>No, no, but I think you are right.</b><b>Because millennials brought the work life</b><b>balance, tried to bring the work life</b><b>balance into the workplace.</b><b>And then Gen Z is really wanting that</b><b>they're, you know, their state, their,</b><b>their one expect have more expectations</b><b>and, um, have even more boundaries.</b><b>And so I think when there's younger</b><b>generations coming into the corporate</b><b>world with that attitude, and then if</b><b>there's boomers that are like, we go to</b><b>work, we work as hard as possible.</b><b>You work over time, you work on the</b><b>weekends, I don't know, no questions</b><b>asked, they just don't,</b><b>they, yeah, they clash.</b><b>And so, and so I think.</b><b>That's also what's going on, you know, and</b><b>I think they can both learn from each</b><b>other, but right now there's a clash and</b><b>then there's Gen X and they're going,</b><b>wait, let's talk this out.</b><b>Come on you guys.</b><b>So, um, that on the professional and then,</b><b>and then on, and just when they're out in</b><b>the wild, it's the, the ones that are rude,</b><b>but they were rude their whole life.</b><b>That's the thing.</b><b>These are just rude people.</b><b>They just happen to be in this generation.</b><b>It's not a generational thing.</b><b>There's Gen X, there's an act like that,</b><b>you know, so, but that's</b><b>why, again, I'm so happy you came on and</b><b>shared your story because you're just this</b><b>awesome guy, you know, this is great guy.</b><b>You know, you, you, you, you kind of just</b><b>end up with people that you want to be</b><b>around and you know, do the right thing.</b><b>You know, probably a lot of that.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>Well, I think you're really cool.</b><b>You're really cool.</b><b>So much fun.</b><b>Really cool.</b><b>Boomer.</b><b>So again, thank you.</b><b>And just sharing about your personal life.</b><b>And, um, again, there's just a lot of</b><b>wisdom there and I'm really happy that our</b><b>listeners are going to get, um, get some</b><b>exposure to what you have to share.</b><b>Cause I know there's someone out there that</b><b>will learn something or there might</b><b>be other boomers out there listening that</b><b>can say, I can totally relate to that.</b><b>So cool.</b><b>I remember that, you know, or, oh yeah.</b><b>So, um, again, thank you so much.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>The impeller is what I was thinking of when</b><b>the, the car, the car,</b><b>it was on his mic.</b><b>Yeah.</b><b>That's what happened.</b><b>You know what I mean?</b><b>Yes.</b><b>I'm thinking that for</b><b>the last couple of years.</b><b>And good luck with your</b><b>daughter's wedding in January.</b><b>It's exciting.</b><b>And with your grand babies and, um, with</b><b>your retirement that's in the future and</b><b>all that stuff.</b><b>So thank you again.</b><b>And to our listeners, please leave any</b><b>questions or comments.</b><b>We always love to hear from you</b><b>and we will see you next time.</b><b>Bye.</b>