Episode 33 - Parenting Adult Children Artwork

GenX Adulting Podcast

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GenX Adulting Podcast

Episode 33 - Parenting Adult Children

May 19, 2025 • Brian & Nicole • Season 1 • Episode 33

In this episode, Brian and Nicole discuss parenting adult children. They share how they've had to transition as parents in order to continue to be supportive and offer guidance while respecting their adult children's space. They reflect on the various changes and experiences adult children face for the first time in their 20s, and how the entire decade can be quite an erratic ride. They deep dive into how the corporate world is receiving GenZ as they enter the workforce, as well as the contributions Millennials and GenZ has made that have had an effect on corporate culture. Nicole shares her outlook of having an open nest vs an empty nest home, as well as her belief that the time and effort you put into your children's childhood determines how much access you'll have to them when they are adults. They also both acknowledge that communication with adult children is a 2-way street, and that parents need to continue to put in effort to stay in touch with their kids. It was a great discussion on such an important part of life for both adult children and their parents, and we hope our listeners enjoy it!

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[Music]Welcome to GenX Adulting and today we aretalking about parenting adult children.So a lot of GenXers have adult childrenor have kids in their late teens.I'm not saying there aren't GenXers thatare still raising young children becausepeople have childrenat all different ages.I'm just specifically talking about thoseof us who have kids in theirlate teens, 20s and early 30s,but I think we're more focusing on that20s decade because that seems to be when,especially when yourkids get out of collegeand they take their first steps into"adulthood" and that's kind of what we'refocusing on is that first decade.Because I find the 20s for kids, I callit the second childhood, I think I toldmy kids their 20s are going to be rough,they're going to be awesome and they'regoing to be rough and it's going to be awild ride, ups and downs,because the frontal lobe closes duringyour 20s, you gothrough a huge maturity jump.You kind of, once that happens,especially you kind of see, I think seelife a little differentlyand that's good or bad, right?But you might get a little moreconservative in your decision making.You might be able to look further on downthe line in your life. You might be ableto see the bigger picture more.These are things that happen as youmature and your frontallobe closes and as you grow.But when you graduate from college andyou're first out there, especially forthe Gen Z generation,which that's who Gen X raised.Now there may be some Gen Xers who haveyounger millennials.I mean, I know there are. And then theremay be some Gen Xers that actually havesome Gen Alphas, which are, I want to saythat's like 13, 12, 11, 10.You know, there's probablysome oopsie babies in there.Bonus, bonus babies.So we have one. We have a bonus baby. Sowe have a 28 year oldson, a 24 year old daughter.And then we have, so we had our, our 28year old son when I was, when we were 26,we had our 24 year olddaughter when we were 29.And then we had our bonus baby when wewere 39. I was 39. You were 38. Yeah,he's 15 now. And he's 15.So our kids are three or older to a threeand a half years apart.But then there's a 10 year age differencebetween our daughter and youngest son anda 13 year age difference between ourolder son and our youngest son.And that's a whole nother aspect is whenyou end up with a bonus baby.I have found we can touch on that alittle bit because I'm sure there'speople listening thatsomebody has that situation.One thing I focus on when I popped uppregnant, you know, popping up pregnantas unexpectedly can be very stressful.It's not saying it's a negative thing.But when your life is going one way andthen you have your oopsie,you completely have to mentally andemotionally change the thought process ofwhere your life is going.Everything with your family andespecially for the woman adjusts to,okay, I'm going to be pregnant again.Usually if there's enough years, like forme, it was 13 and 10, 10 years since I'dhad my last baby. I'm older.I think I was considered a geriatric,geriatric patient. I was 39.It's a huge adjustment. Of course, it'samazing and wonderful.And you didn't realize that your familywasn't complete until this baby comes.And then you're like, oh, now we'recomplete. But that's a huge adjustment.And then I really tried to focus onmaking sure that myolder two are older too.We're close with him because I neverwanted him to feel like an only child orfeel left out from their bond.And they did a great job. Well, it waskind of like we all raised him, right?Well, I think he's almost the mostparented child on the planet. Right.That's what I joke about because he hasme, you, his two oldersiblings and your mom.Yeah, we all he's very highly parented.He is because our older son, whichhonestly, not to interrupt you,but translates to very extremely lovedand looked after. Right.He's extremely lovedin that sense. Yes. Yes.So his arrival shocked all of us. Andthen he just was loved.But so our our older son, who's 13 yearsolder than him, kind of was almost likelike really a big brother,but also like had had anuncle vibe in a way. Yeah.And then our daughter, who's 10 yearsolder than him, like, ofcourse, she was awesome.She's like a little mommyand still is to some degree.So but they to their credit, they workedhard to stay close to him.They're very protective of him. But theythey're always conscious of not leavinghim out when they can.You know, if they're going toa bar, they can't bring him.I know when he turns 21 that their worldsare all going to change because he'sgoing to they're goingto bring him everywhere.But I really now that he's 15 and they'rein their 20s, every year he gets older,they get closer and closer.But they've done things like our olderson has coached our youngerson's teams, basketball team.Like they step in when needed. So thiswill be the first year that I'm steppingback and those two aregoing to coach together.Yes. Now, what's interesting is I dothink as I didn't think we're going intothis area, but as he gets older,they become more like siblings. So it'sit's very less and lessparental and far more sibling.And it's really been fun to watch. Yes.That's yeah. That's what I mean.Like he's getting old enough and thenthey're older. They're older, like realadults, I guess. Yeah.So, yeah, they're way more becoming likesiblings. And yeah, our older son andyounger son are going to coach abasketball team together this fall,where it's always been our older soncoaching our younger son. So it's justbeen cool to watch that progression.And so for anyone out there who's maybepopped up pregnant or you're you know,you just had a bonus babyand you have older kids,we're here to say it does work. They stayclose. It does take effort. It takesthoughtfulness. It takes intention.But if the whole family puts that in andwe raise our older to to be conscious ofhim as much as possible.So but now, yeah, they're very close. Butwhat's interesting is that so he's in histeens. So he's in high school,which we've done that two times over. Butwe also have two kids in their 20s andparenting them, you know, it's it'sinteresting parenting your kids that arein their 20s because they're independent.And wanting to create their own life. Butthey definitely still need support andguidance and to know you're there andyou're a safe landing pad.They still need you there to be able tocall to run things by us like decisionsabout jobs, about relationships, aboutwhere they're going to live, about lifein general to share things just to bewe're like a bouncingboard, I guess you call it.Call it for them. And I definitely thinkkids in their 20s need that. They need toknow at any time they can reach out totheir parents and their parents will bethere 100 percent forthem with no judgment.And I think the idea of, you know, theywon't be independent or they won't besuccessful if you're too ifyou're involved with them.I don't totally agree with that. I mean,I think you shouldn't be too involved,but I think you shouldstill be there as a connection.Well, it's an interesting point because Iagree that I was just thinking you can'tbe too involved, but you can't. Meaningif they they need to move out right atsome point and they doneed to be on their own.They go through that in college if theygo to college, but if they're not incollege and whatever, they do need to getout of the house at somepoint and start to be responsible.But once they hit that face, I don'tthink you can be too and what you can, Iguess, but I don't see maybe if you'realways there bringing food or going overto clean up their apartment or whatever.Right. But to be available via any time aphone call or text, I don't see that howthat you could be tooinvolved in that sense.No, I agree. And speaking of when theyget out of college, you know, especiallyfor the Gen Z's, everything is soexpensive now that I know for our oldertwo, when they got out of college, theymoved back home and started saving money.Like they there was no they first had toget a job and then there wasn't this I'mjust going to go get anapartment. It was too expensive.Well, there was also COVID. When I firstgot out of college, COVID hit.Our older son.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then our daughter to what COVIDwasn't going on whenshe got out of college.It was going on while she was in college.Right. But talking about post college.Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, he he moved homebecause there COVID was going on. But healso was saving money.But then when she got out of college,there was no COVID, but she still movedhome and actually still lives with us.And it's been two years.And she has saved a lot of money, butshe's ready to move out. But even then,even though she has saved money, she'sgot a great job. She's doing well.It still costs so much to live on yourown. It really does. So, you know, she'strying to figure out, do I get aroommate? Can I afford to live out on myown? It's a big leap.Yep.Because, you know, you're hopingeverything works out always with your joband all those things. So I think it'sjust a big risk for them now just becauseeverything is so expensive. Because evenour older son lived with us and thenmoved out and lived on his own for like ayear and a half almost.And then at least here in Florida, therents doubled and tripled. And he had toand his roommate moved and he had to moveback home with us for a year.Was it a year? I thought it was likealmost a bridge. Ithought it was a few months.No, it was almost a year. Really? Yeah.Yeah. Maybe it was nine. I thought it wasa year. Yeah. I thought it was a year. Ihave to look, think back.I thought it was like between whenanother friend of his, his lease had togo. And then so he moved in with us. Andthen once his lease expired, they got onetogether. And I don't thinkit was a year, but it was.It was almost a year. It was maybe not.Let's say nine months either way. Yeah.But but we were that landing path forhim. And so that goes to that open nestversus emptiness concept. So I'm not abeliever in an emptiness. For me, anemptiness does not existbecause we have an open nest.The nest is here. The nest has a swingingdoor and you can come back to the nestwhenever you need for whatever reason,even if you're married and you alreadyhave kids. If you need to land in ournest again for some reason, it's here.And so I'm not, I know there's peoplethat talk about, oh, emptiness and youknow, it's, it's, they're sad about it.And I get that. I understand kids leavingand that the shift in life. That's,that's what they're talking about is Iwas a parent for, you know, 20 years or18 years or however many kids you havecould be 30 years. Now they're not here.And I need to find my new focus in life.So I think it's moretalking about that midlife change.But I don't, I don't, we don't have anemptiness. We will never have anemptiness. It'll always be an openness.And I think there's a security that comesfor kids. You know, our kids are adults,but it's just a comfort knowing if thingsreally go sideways. We're here.They have a backstop. Yeah. So I don'tknow what would equate to involved withyour, with adult children. Like I mean,you stated like they should end up likethey can come home and, and be with us.And then they should at some point liveon their own and pay their bills, dotheir laundry, cleantheir house, all those things.So if they're living on their own, isthere still a way to be too involved?I think so. If you, if you were at hishouse cleaning it weekly, if you wentover and did his laundry, if you were tobring him meals once or not once, butmore than three times aweek or something like that.Yeah. That's, I think that's tooinvolved. If you're too involved innavigating relationships, you know,especially female ones, things like that.Absolutely. If you're critical, I thinkof the choices that they're making, evenif you don't like them, you know, maybeyou and I could bitch about them, but toactively in, in, in confront or engagetoo often on too many thingsthat could be too involved.I think none of which we do. So that's aninteresting point. I think that's one ofthe most challenging things about havingadult children is havingto stand on the sidelines.And know that the decisions they make arenot the best ones. And there could be abetter decision or knowing that they'rechoosing a harder path than need be, buthaving to be careful how you give adviceso that they don't feel like you're telling them what to do.Because they want independence. They wantautonomy, understandably so. But with agecomes wisdom. So sometimes you just haveto bite your tongue and know, okay, thisis going to be way harderthan it needs to be for them.Or they have to go through this and wejust have to stand by. And cause you feelthe hurt and the pain or whatever whileyou're watching them go through it.But don't you think that starts earlier?Meaning I've always said that, and I tellpeople this, if they're when people,younger couples show up pregnant, right?It's like, oh, that's cool. You got ninemonths to figure it outbecause they're nervous, right?Right. Everything in life prepares youfor the next thing. So you're pregnantfor 40 weeks. If it goes full term,that's a lot of time to kind of figurethings out, get your nursery ready,figure it all out. Right.And then the baby comes in. It's like,oh, that was semi anti-climatic because Ijust have to hold it and take care of it.And not I'm over simplifying it, but itgets you ready for when they're walking,walking gets you readyfor when they're running.I think it gets where you start to seethem tripping up as probably high school.And then in the college, the decisionsare stupid. Often as they get out ofcollege, I think their decisions start toget incrementally better.But you're already prepared becauseyou've seen stupid shit in high schooland college. That makessense. Would you agree?It does. But the, I agree. But thedifference is, is in high school asparents, we still have a say, we stillhave some control over what they do. Ifthey, well, if they don't, uh, you know,listen to us, if they're doing somethingthey shouldn't be doing, they can stilllose privileges. Right.And we hold the power of the purse.That's what I'm talking about too. Andthen in college, especially if yourparents are paying for your college or ifyour parents are giving you spendingmoney, if they'repaying for something, okay.The parents do still have some controland anyone who wants to say they don't,that's not true. If there are parents whoare giving any type of funds, whether itbe a hundred dollars a month, even forfood, all the way to paying a full rideof college, thoseparents still have a say.Let me ask you this though. What do you,what's the threshold? Cause to mementally, it's probably as long as you'regetting good grades and you're not, youdon't have a criminal record. You'regetting good grades.The leash is pretty long.It is. Right. No, I would say like, ifyou're in college, if you're a parent andyou're funding a part of your kids'college experience, then yes, I would sayyou need to make your grades. You need tonot be getting DUIs and arrested.Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you arepartying, you need your partying, can'tyou don't, these are not getting goodgrades. You gotta get these fees type ofthing. Yeah. But I mean, I think there'ssome C's that happened in college andit's like, you know, nobody's asking whatyour GPA was in college. It's not totallycommon. Let's be honest. It really isn'tright. So you know what I mean? Likeyou're, you're, you're maintaining your,your, you're going well.It's like, you know, I would definitely Ihad access to the portals and stuff, butit wasn't an issue, but if it became anissue, that becomes a lever as a parentto say, Hey, you're getting C's. Theshit's expensive. Yes.Everything's expensive. You need to dobetter than C's. Right. So yeah, but Ithink if you have parents, if yourparents aren't paying for anything, theydon't have a say in when you're incollege. So what I'm speaking about isjust if the parents arecontributing in some way, right?So yeah, it would be, it would be gradesmainly. And like you said, not gettingarrested and stuff like that. But I willsay just sending advice for parents whoare about to send their kids to school.One way, one a great way to get them tostay in contact. If you, if you arefunding them, you know, cause our parentswho do fund their kids in college, make,make, don't, don't justreplenish their bank account.Like they have to text you or call you toget the money. That was always made surenot that there was an issue withcommunication, but you know, you don'tjust automatically replenish it. Youknow, then, then at least you get thattext or that phone call by, I only have$5 left. Can you put some money in? Andthen you get to communicate with them alittle bit. So that was always my littletrick. But so let's, so let's say youstill have had some sortof control in college. Okay.Either way, once they're out of college,now they're in their twenties and they'reon their own. And so as you, there is nomore control. Like your hands offcompletely. You're, it's like really thefirst time as parents, when they get outof college or if they graduated highschool and went right to work, those twoscenarios are the first time you have nocontrol over your kids. They are makingtheir own decisions. And you have to sit back and just hold your hands up.Hold your breath and hope that they'remaking the right decisions. And I havefound that at times to be harder than anypart of our parenting journey. I havebeen more worried about our kids whenthey've been in theirtwenties than maybe any other time.And that's saying a lot because middleschool is rough and so, and high schoolcan be too, but because they're outthere, they're living in the real worldand the decisions they make can be lifealtering. And they're, they're just outthere doing life on their own. And it's,it can be, it can cause so much stress asa parent, especially when you know,they're doing, they're maybe makingdecisions that that's not necessarilylike the best decision to do right now, but they're doing it.But they want to do it. And so you haveto just like sit by and be like, okay, goahead and then know that.I would say that for me, it was more whenthey were in college. And, and I thinkthe reason why is because each, each ofour older kids have gotten jobs andthey've never been fired from jobs. Sothat's a good indicator whether they'reshowing up and, and, you know, stayingemployable is a good thing.If you're, if you're screwing up your,your boss will fire you, then we wouldfind out. Yeah. So I found I've worriedless post-graduation than Idid when they were in college.It's weird though. Yeah. Yeah.Cause I've worried more and you know whatI worry about since, and this could havebeen starting in when they were incollege, but when they graduated collegeand they're in theirtwenties, their mental health.I've worried them. I've always worriedabout mental health, but I have worriedthe most with our kids in their twentiesabout their mental health because they'reout there again, living life and dealingwith all the things.And it's not easy. It's, it's, it isn'teasy. Like I know Gen X, we like topretend like, ah, we did it all. It'snot, doesn't mean it wasn't easy. Youknow, we were kind of just grindingthrough a lot of stuff and notacknowledging certain things.But to Gen Z's credit, they're verypresent and they don't deny themselvesthe right to, um, experience and thinkabout a situation. They don'talways just grind through it.Like take the hits, take the pain andgrind through it. They'll actually givethemselves the grace to say, I don'tthink this is the best thingfor me. I'm not doing that.Or this isn't the best situation for me.I'm going to make a different decision.And I don't, Gen X didn't totally dothat. We just did what wethought we were supposed to do.I give Gen Z a lot of credit for, um,kind of sticking up for themselves.What makes you see Gen X just did it likethat? Cause I, I kind of think back, youknow, definitely you got to think throughthings, you know, twentiesare three decades ago for us.So it's hard to put yourself back in thattime, but I do recall working for someonewho said, it was a mentor at the time,Roger. And it was, he's like,yeah, your twenties are tough.They're the toughest years for anybodybecause you're, you're, you're prettysmart because you went, you know, you'rejust, you think, you know, some things.No one's going to give you a real shot.They'll give you someopportunities, but nothing too crazy.Um, you're not going to get paid what youmight think you're worth. And, uh, whatwas the other one? It was like, I forgetwhat the other one was, but it was like,it's just hard because the twentiesyou're, you think you're there, but therest of the world doesn'tthink you're quite ready.Yeah. No, I think that's a really goodpoint. I think that's something thatprobably every generation has gonethrough, but I think you bring up a greatpoint. You know, they're not getting paidwhat they think they're worth or whatthey think they're capable of.They have to start at a certain, uh,yeah, pay grain. Um, and they are viewedas quote unquote kids. Yep. Right. So,and that's hard to get past because youwere kind of at the peak. You know, yougot through college and you graduated andyou're at the high of life.And then you enter into the workforce andyou're kind of down at the bottom again.But I remember the last one, it wasanybody older than you doesn't trust you.They don't trust your judgment as a 20something because you're a little bit older than you.And then you're like, well, you're not going to be able to do anything becauseyou're younger than them. And they'reeverything I just said, you know, youdon't have the experience, blah, blah,blah. Um, you may know a lot, but theolder folks you're, and this is moreprofessionally, but it also is personal.You just don't get taken as seriously asyou think maybe you should.And it's, that's kind of a gut punch insome ways. Yes. I think that those are,and I definitely think that Gen Z as awhole from society. I think a lot ofpeople judge them. A lot of people don'tthink they have a good work ethic. A lotof people think they're spoiled andtitled and whiny. But I feel like Iremember boomers talking aboutmillennials that way. Right. Yeah. Idon't know if anyone talks about, no onenoticed us and no one said anything about Gen X. But, um, I think that's a good thing.I think about Gen X, but I feel likemillennials got a lot of bad hits andthey, they were the ones they still do,but millennials brought the, um,work-life balance into corporate America.There was no question about it. And theybrought, um, the men and women inmarriage and relationships, sharing moreresponsibilities, the men being moreresponsible. They brought that intosociety, like the cultural shift.But Gen Z really, there's either peoplewho love Gen Z or people who can't standGen Z. And a lot of people think us GenXers raised a bunch of spoiled brats.Who do you think is saying that? Youthink that's coming from the boomers?I think a lot of boomers. And then Ithink, I think there's Gen Xers and I betyou there's some elder millennials. I dothat. Um, think that we overcompensatedby being helicopter parentsand created spoiled brats.I do think there are people who thinkthat for sure. And I think the fact thatGen Z will speak up for themselves andwill say, I'm not comfortable with thator this doesn't work for me. Whether it'sappropriate that they're doing that ornot, that makes people uncomfortablebecause that's probably the firstgeneration that truly has gone into theworkforce and, and said those things.I think that, I think that's socontextual though. In the workforce, inan environment that's not conducive tothat, it's not going to fly. But inanother work environment where it's okay,then it will fly andit's probably healthy.What work environment would it be okay?Probably Starbucks. Right? Starbucks ispretty, you know, quote unquote woke,right? They get a, they get thereputation of being woke. But there's,there's elements of woke that's okay.One of them might be speaking your piecein your mind. Okay. Right. So, but ingeneral, I would say most places wherepeople work that are already inexistence, you bring in this newgeneration that's going to stay.This doesn't make me feel comfortable. Iwant something that's different thanthis. I would say in general, most placesare not, are going to, that's going to bean adjustment for them. Well, betterexample. Now that I've had a few secondsto think about itwould be the tech industry.Google, Meta, right? Who else? Oracle,all these Silicon Valley companies,right? They've started, they, and part ofit, it's, it's kind of a, it's actuallyfunny because you think this iswonderful. Look at these benefits. They,they want to take care of us.They want to keep you there.The cafeterias, the free, you know,massages, the onsite daycare, all of thatstuff is conducive to keeping you there.But they also let people, if the CEOcomes on and Tim Cook comes on at Appleand says, we're going to do this or that.They, there's some freedom to revolt, notrevolt, but to have an opinion,salesforce.com. If they do something,they move into a different area. Theyinvest in something. Theytake a stand politically.Their employees are allowed to have avoice. Now that's not everywhere, butthose companies allow that. And it'sinteresting. I don't know if they do sayat Home Depot, Walmart, they're not,they're more traditional, right? I don'tthink they're saying, yeah, we want tohear your feedback. Not really.So do you think that a lot of Gen Z's aregoing into that field or working forthose companies? Andthat's one of the reasons.Well, I think they are by default becauseit pays very well. It's technical. It'ssomething that they've grown up with aninterest in, right? Computers. And it'sdeveloping, developing software andapplications andthings like that. So sure.Sure. Okay. That makes sense. So I dothink Gen Z gets, gets viewed as a veryanxious generation. They've seen a lot ofthem. Do you think that,do you think that's because they'recomfortable expressing that they haveanxiety right now and that othergenerations like us, Gen X andmillennials and probably boomers did havethe same anxieties, butjust at least for Gen X.That was not something that we discussed.That was not something that was evenaddressed. I'm not sure with millennials.I don't know. But do you think it's justthat they talk about it? It's not thatit's unusual that they're feeling it.It's that we all know they're feeling itbecause they talk about it and they'recomfortable with that. Or do you thinkthey have higher anxiety for some reason?No, I think it's interesting. I think Idon't know the shift. I can only speakfor myself. I'm not, I don't know forothers, but as a people manager, I lovethe millennials and Gen Z's. I love thecommunication because you want to getthe, say the, you want things to work,right? You hire good people. You want tokeep them. You want to understand whatmakes them tick. You want to, you want tomake it fulfilling, right? You want tomake it frictionless andproductive and, you know,and for lots of reasons for maybe someself-serving, obviously, but a lot forjust let's have a good time here. Andthey're communicative. They docommunicate and they will share whattheir goals are and what theiraspirations are. And they're not asclosed up as someone like me coming in. Iwon't say, "Shit, you know, what's therules? I'll follow the rules. What do Ineed to wear? I'll wear what I need towear." And I hate that,right? That drove me crazy.It was such a conflict, right? Whereasthese younger people, they, things havemore relaxed corporate culture wise andthat could just be, we're in Florida,right? But you know, New York's probablystill a little bit up tight, but Westcoast is still, is mellow. But I thinkit's good. I think, I thinkit's good. I think it's healthy.Well, like you just said, is it Gen X oryou just like, we're like, okay, what arethe rules? I'm going to fit into therules. And I almost feel like Gen Z iscoming into the workforce saying, okay,like I get that these are the rules, butrule one and three, not totallycomfortable with. Could we like dosomething about those roles where GenXers would never, we would never, wewould have just been like, okay, thoseare the rules. Okay.No, I think we would, but it'd be more,and I'm not a smoker, but at the smoker'stent, you bitch. You go to the smoker'stent and you bitch about things. Maybeyou go and you just, you know, you kindof complain. But then once, but once youbecome right, the older guard retires,the next generation comes in. That's youropportunity to change things. If you'repaying attention and not a jerk, it'syour opportunity to say, okay, I'm now ina position of where I can make a change.I have some influence.What didn't I like? What are these peoplesaying? Let's do it. That kind of thing.And I think that's important as Gen X isstarting to maybe become the quoteunquote elders in the corporate world andholding more responsibility. I think it'simportant that we recognize we don't, wecan like shed some of the box we've livedin when it comes to work and maybe listento Gen Z, some of the things that we're doing.Some of the ideas they bring and maybeacknowledge the millennials and what theyhave been trying to like get through topeople for so long and be progressive.I would say a more direct statement wouldbe not that maybe we should be betterbecause if you don't, you're going to beout of a work. Unless you'reindependently wealthy and don't need tobe working or anything.You have to adapt and the adaptation isboth your own growth into say advancingor more responsibility, but seeing whatthe folks that are younger kind of behindyou and what they're doing and saying andthinking and feeling, you haveto adapt. You have to change.Yeah. And I think if you do, it forcesyou to also have a little bit more of anauthentic relationship with yoursubordinates probably, you know, which isnot something thatwas ever given to Gen X.No, not really.You know? So I think what Gen Z isbringing into the workforce is positive.Now, I know there are situations wherethere is no, there is a bad work ethicand they're not a good employee.But I think that's true for everygeneration. Absolutely. Every generationhas that. That's not a generationalthing. That's people. And I think thefact that Gen Z is so comfortablecommunicating how they're feeling,communicating what they're thinking isbecause they were raised by Gen X and wewere, we had opencommunication with them.We wanted them to talk to us. We wantedthem to feel comfortable sharing what isgoing on in their life, their feelings,their thoughts. We wanted to be anonjudgmental safe place for them. Sothey grew up talking to their parents andsharing things because wewanted to break that cycle.And so now they're in their twenties asadults and they're talking and sharing attheir jobs. And so for a lot of Gen Xersor Boomers or even elder millennials,that can feel uncomfortable. Like, oh mygosh, they're always sharing theirthoughts. But it's like, that's howthey've been raised.They weren't raised to close themselvesoff. We all were like, no, share. We'rehere. We'll listenbecause no one listened to us.So, and that could be that extreme thatpeople are like, Gen X went crazy raisingtheir kids and made them entitled. Whatwe made them entitled to was having avoice because we didn't have one. So wemade sure our kids had a voice.And so, yeah, society is going to have todeal with that. But I think that's apositive thing. I don'tthink that's a negative thing.No, no, I, you know, it's interesting.I'm thinking about that in terms of justto bring it back to parenting, right?Everything I just said is professionallyoriented. But at the same time, my adviceto our two kids is tocommunicate with their boss.That's not something I would have saidprobably if I didn't have kids. I don'tknow. It's interesting to think how did Ihave kids shift us as people, right?That's a fascinating whole other topic.Oh yeah. But the, you know, if there'ssomething going on in the workplace foreither kid, I'm like, talk to your boss,you know, and try to guidethem on the conversation. Yeah.Knowing that it could be completelyuncomfortable. But at the end of the day,it's like, listen, you getfired. Come home. We gotcha.And that's part of that openness. And I'msure there's some people that would judgethat, be like, you know, that youshouldn't be a landing pad so they feelthat they can just get fired. But thedays of you should hold a job, the samejob for 20 years are over.Yeah. Gen Z can bounce jobs. It's commonfor them to have a job for a year and goget another job. Likethat's their culture.I'm not an advocate of that per se. And Isay that for career development. I thinkin order to make the most amount ofmoney, you need to skip jobs a few times.Then you, but you should settle down. Ido believe in that. And that could bewrong. Maybe that's terrible advice.And I don't think any advice I've evergiven our kids is to push it too far toget fired. But it's more the, hey, whatabout this? Or what about that? And do itin a delicate way. I try to advise themright to guide that conversation. They'resmart, so they get it.But I don't advise you.I would never advise anybody to adviseyour children to go in and push thebuttons of the boss toget fired. That's stupid.Right. Right. But I think we've raisedthem to feel again, that they have avoice and they have a right to, um, tohave expectations. I think that wassomething that when Gen X was enteringtheir workforce, we just assumed, well,we're at the bottom of the barrel. So wearen't allowed expectations. That's tohave our own expectations. That'ssomething that we earnthe longer you're at a job.But I think the world's changed too,right? Because what I'm describing frommy own experience, the bosses wereboomers and silentgeneration could give a shit about me.What now that I'm in a position whereI've got people reporting to me, I care.I truly do. And others do. I'm not alone,right? The others truly care and take aninterest in the people that are on theirteams and in theirorganizations and whatnot.So there's a huge difference and I, andit is okay to approach and have aconversation and peopleare receptive to it. I think.Would you say it's safe to say that themillennials broughthumanity into the corporate world?I honestly don't knowwhat you mean by that.So what I mean is that they, again,work-life balance and that they force theissue of you can't justtreat us all like robots.Like you have to acknowledge we do have afamily or we do have children or we dohave goals and wefeel strongly about them.That they couldn't just be as easily putinto a box, maybe as GenX was on the work front.Yeah, I think that the box is definitelybigger or different. Probably if thatmakes sense to answer andwhat you're where you're going.But I don't know. I don't know if I haveenough perspective quite yet on in termsof the previous generation and style.Because the world's changed, theindustries have changed. There's alwaysbeen softwaredevelopment, but not really.That's really somethingnew in our generation.Like the Apple 2C, Steve Jobs and Wozniakbuilt the Apple computer in their garagein what the 70s or 80s.IBM has always had the mainframe and thebig iron boxes going back to probably the30s, 40s and 50s and the 1900s.But all of this stuff has changed so muchthat it's just very different.So as the corporate world has changed, asthe landscape has changed, you don't knowif it's as generational as it is just thechange, the technologythat's come into play.You know, now that I have another half asecond to think about it, if you thinkabout it, what's gone on in our lifetime,we've got mega corporations.Meaning when I was a kid, we'd go to acompany called Two Guys or 84 Lumber, 84Lumber, still around, but local lumberstores, they're gone.They're gone, but they employed people.And those people were silent generation,probably boomers, and they employedpeople and it was a certain way.There were smaller grocery stores thatemployed people and ran things adifferent way. It wastighter, it was smaller.All those companies, not all, but Kroger,Safeway, Albertson, Walmart, Target havejust destroyed all of them.Pharmacies used to be mom and pops. So ifyou were working there, you were workingfor the mom and pop and whatever, andthey probably worked long hours and theyexpect you to work long hours.They're gone. It's Walgreens and it'sCVS. When I was a kid, I worked for mycousins. They had acustom cabinetry shop.And it wouldn't be uncommon for me at 17years old to be, you know, it's like fouro'clock on a Thursday.We need you to drive to Patterson, NewJersey, 45 minutes away without trafficand go pick up this sink and bring itback so we caninstall it tomorrow, right?And it was just like, okay, I'm going.The world's changed.It's big companies now.And so there are people do have a voicebecause of HR rules and laws and classaction lawsuits and all this stuff,right? It's become far more mechanized.Does that make sense?Yeah. So you're saying that because ofthat, it has created a space more forkids like Gen Z that are entering theworkforce to be protected in a way.There are certainlabor protections for sure.And also there's also a lot more slots,meaning you're going to be barista levelone and then you're going to get promotedto barista level two andthen barista level three.Right. And each one has a box per se. Andwhereas if it's a smaller company, youknow, you work at the local coffee shop,it's like, okay, you're you're starting.All right, cool. Now you're going to bedoing this. You're doing that. And maybeyour pay goes up. Maybe it doesn't. Idon't know. But you do it all. Okay.If that does that make sense?Yeah. Yeah. But there's more. Yes,there's more advanced organizedadvancement, I guess.There's organized advancement, partlybecause of labor unions, but also just tohave some sanity becauseyou don't want to get sued.Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So that allowsthem also to have more of a voiceprobably for if there's not comfortablewith something or because my point is...Well, think of it this way, not tointerrupt you, but there's OSHA laws.There's... I feel terrible notremembering this, but the DisabilitiesAct, I forget the full name,that's what I feel bad about.But those laws are in place to protectpeople from discrimination and stuff.They didn't exist a generation or twoago, right? Right. That stuff exists now.So I just feel like when Gen X wasentering the workforce in their twenties,there's a lot more things they justaccepted as part of their job. It can besomething as simple as you only get a 10minute break at 10 o'clock.Yeah. And you get a 10 minute break attwo o'clock. And other than that, youbetter be working to the grindstone andwe expect you to do this, do that.And you don't quite... I don't thinknecessarily it was normal culture for GenX to question that. It was like, "Okay,this is what's required of my job. Thisis what I'm gonna do."I feel like... and millennials probablyopen the door on this, but Gen Z iscoming into the workforce saying, like,if they're not comfortable with somethinglike that, they'll go into their superiorand say, "You know, I need 15 minutes orI need more breaks. This is not right."I feel like Gen X gave Gen Z a voice andthey're using it in the workforce. And Ithink that's where some of the backlashcomes from of people like they're spoiledor they, you know, they're babies, butthey're really just saying,"No, this iscrazy. Like, I need morethan 10 minutes. Anyone would."It's just Gen X was like, "Okay, we'lljust... we do what we're supposed tosay." Where Gen Z is saying, "No, youshould want more than 10 minutes."You know, does that make sense?Yeah, I can think of a specific examplewhere people who smoke, right? You'resupposed... to your point, the old modelwas if you're working eight hours a day,maybe two hours in, youget a 15-minute break.You go smoke, go for a walk, whatever.Then you have lunch for half an hour andthen another whatever, 15-minute break.And I recall specifically one person, thesmokers take advantage of that, right?The smokers are out smoking all the timein the corporate world. And I remembersomeone's like, "This is bullshit. Youknow, these guys are... we're expected tobe here at our desk and working all thetime, but these guys that smoke, they'reout there all the time."And, you know, it's just not fair.Right.And it was like,"Eh,maybe you're on to something."But no one did anything about it. Youjust like said that andthen you just kept working.Whereas I think in the Gen Z world, ifsmoking was common in the Gen Z world,and let's say you had half the employeesare going out and smoking whenever theyneed to and the other half aren't, thoseGen Z employees are going to saysomething about that.No, that's what I'm saying. It was theGen Z who... it was probably a millennialwho said this to me. And it was like,"Yeah, I mean, you'reon to something there."It was the first time that you reallywere like questioning it or like to thatdegree. They broughtit to your attention.I had noticed it and I just didn'ttotally care. It was like, I didn't carebecause it's like, "I'll go walk to thecafeteria or whatever."I'm not honoring that rule anyways.Right? Because Gen X, right? I'm notfollowing that rule. That rule is stupid.I'm just going to figure out how to goaround it type of thing, Iguess, if that's our culture.Okay. So maybe when things would getuncomfortable at work, Gen X would justquietly break a rule or figure out a wayto get around a rule, butthey did it individually.Like, "This isn't comfortable for me. SoI'm just going to figure out a way tomake this comfortable for me." Whereasmillennials and Gen Z were like, "Thisisn't comfortable and we'rechanging it for everyone."We're going to bring it to the bosses andsay, "This rule you have is not right orfair. You better change it."Whereas Gen X would just be like, "Well,I'm just going to do this instead andtake care ofthemselves if that makes sense."They would have never thought to say, "Ishould bring this to the bosses and havea full company shift."I feel like, you know, it's funny. Ithink Gen X is probably, we probably weremore rebellious and you see that in a lotof the commentary, right? Around some ofthe stuff we put up andmore feral and this and that.But I think we would ditch. We'd findsomeone that would be in our corner andwe'd probably complain together and thenfigure out how to rebel together, but notgo and try to takeaction and change the world.We're not changing the world, right?Whereas the Gen Z and millennials aretrying to change the world.Well, the younger millennials, I thinkthe older millennials are at this point,just like we just wantto garden and stay home.I think they're starting to take afterGen X a little, like leave us alone. ButI just think, I think with Gen X raisingGen Z to have a voice and then nowthey're in their twenties and they'reentering corporate world.They're entering the workforce and theyare writing on the backs of the changesmillennials startedmaking on the corporate front.And I think it's even more shock to thesystem because I think one of the reasonsmillennials got such backlash is becausethey were the first to really bringthings to theforefront of this isn't right.This isn't fair. Things need to change.Work-life balance stuff, whatever it was.And then now you have Gen Z coming inwho've been raised by Gen X and they'relike, yeah, that was great. Those thingsyou change, but that's not enough.You better change this on the other thingand we're going to be very loud aboutthis. And that's where Ithink it can get rough.There can be some backlash, you know,because and I think there's Gen Z's thathave been working and think this is BSand they're they'relooking for other jobs.They're not they're not tied like Gen Xwas like, well, I got to state this jobfor five years so Ican get this movement.They're more like after a couple ofyears. Okay, this is not working for me.I'm getting a new job.I don't think they're scared of changingjobs. Whereas that was not our culture.Gen X was you stayed in a job.I honestly think that's an individualperson thing because I know that and youknow, you went alongfor the ride with me.I moved from I worked at a nursery and Ihad a job lined up, but I needed to getpaid out on a on a sales commission.So I didn't tell anybody and it was a bigdeal. Like I left that job on Friday andstarted a new job Monday.I don't know if you remember that or not.Yeah. But then we moved across countryfrom Oregon to New Jersey for a job.I got paid a little more money. Notnothing worth the move, but there were athousand other reasonsto make the move. Right.Then but then as I was there got a coupleof promotions, but then I left anddoubled my salary and a lotof those guys stayed there.They were smart. They were capable, butthey stayed there and got paid thatsmaller wage. Right.And then shortly after I went againbecause I was going to get paid more andthen they showed me no loyalty.So why would I stick around? Right. Butideally, I mean, ultimately I had twokids in you in a house.And so I moved on again andI think I doubled my salary.And then I got to a point where I waslike, OK, I'm cool now.So that's what I mean.I think it's good to jump around a littlebit, especially in the beginning to getyour salary to where you want it to be.But just to go back to what I was where Istarted was that's an individual thing.Some people just find the spot, they getcomfortable and they stay.And it's the worstthing you can do in my mind.I mean, I think it's a good thing foryour mental development, your sanity.Maybe it's a sane play because you'resafe and you feel safeand you're comfortable.But people, I thinkit's an individual choice.But I don't think the Gen Z's need to bein one spot to feel safe.That's what I'm saying.Like what you're talking about.Yeah, I get that's what you made those.I mean, I think that's fairly in Gen Zworld, a decent amount of time.You still held thosejobs like Gen Z's don't.I don't think that they feel they need tostay for any certain amount of time ifthey're not happy somewhere.Like I think they'll walkaway from a job after six months.I think they'll walk awayfrom a job after a year.You weren't doing that. No.So I think your concept of stayingsomewhere is still differentthan Gen Z's cultural concept.They are willing to jump ship after sixmonths for irrationalreasons or for good reasons.That's when we get intohow we look at things.So it could be 100% rational to them, butmaybe to a boomer, it's absolutelyirrational or it is just rational.Obviously that'sdetermined by each situation.I know, but what I mean is as a thirdparty person looking in, you know, Ibelieve all my moves were 100% rationalin hindsight 2020 andthey're still rational.But I do you think that they have theywould have that same experience?Do you think that they would they'rebeing irrational in their moves or thatit's truly the right move?I think that I don't know, obviouslydepends on the person, but I do thinkthat Gen Xers would stay in a job thatthey were uncomfortable with or evenworking for someone that made themuncomfortable and hang inthere even for two years.And I think Gen Z will be like, no. Yeah,I think they'll like it.I think Gen X women worked for malebosses that made passes at them that didvery inappropriate stuff,even subtle, even subtle.You know, think about Gen X women had todeal with so much misogyny andchauvinism and all that crap.And that could be some of the differencesthat Gen Z women, if they're in a job andany of that'shappening, they're reporting it.And if it's not getting changed, they'requitting. Even if theywork there for four months.Yeah. So and maybe that's it. I betthat's simply there.So Gen Z is going into the workforce intheir 20s and Gen X has emboldened themwith a voice and with expectations andGen X has their back.And so they're showing up like strong.They're showing up with total autonomy,with self-respect, withstandards and with boundaries.And I think they're the first realgeneration that's entering at entry levelor entering a job with boundaries andstandards and a voice like that.And so that's where some of the strifecan come because you're working for oldergenerations who maybe are taking it as,oh my God, they think who they are.They're so entitled. They're so spoiled,but they're really just showing up with,you know, confidenceand high self-esteem.You know, what's interesting is whatyou're describing almost is the meldingof corporate Americaand this new generation.And it's there's somewhat of an alignmentprobably for the first time because whatyou're saying is, yeah, they're showingup with standards and whatever, right?And if they don't get met, they're out.The reality is there is a program. It'snot like they're coming in and changingthe program. There's rules.So corporate America is pretty muchadapted to that to say, okay, this iswhat you want. All right. This is whatyou get. And there are rules.So it's kind of not saying it's a fit.Just saying if that is what I'm sayingmakes sense that corporate America isaligned to these things.There are, you can't be inappropriate toa woman. It's just not okay. And you willget fired. You will get managed out andwomen have vehicles to report it, right?And people are not afraid to bewitnesses, right? If you see someone beinappropriate with a woman or even a man,you know, there's people arenot afraid to be witnesses.And HR is fine doing investigations,getting to the truth and firing everybodyif they ask you. They'rethere to protect the company.No, yeah, you're right. I think Gen Z hasway more protections probably than anygeneration ever, for sure. So I don'tknow the whole, is Gen Z happy in theirjobs, in their twenties, any more thanGen X or millennials were?I mean, here's the way. No, absolutelynot. And I'll tell you why. There'sabsolutely not. There's a major problemgoing on right now in the world,especially in probably this country.And we saw it with Ben's episode, right?When Ben was talking about he's trying tohave work-life balance. He's producingprobably the topsales guy in the company.New boss comes in. He's a boomer. Doesn'tlike his style. Doesn't like his haircut.Doesn't like the fact that he's surfingafter work. Fires him. That's stupid.So no, no, there's a problem. And we sawin the response to that, there's a lot of20-somethings that are not, are verydisenfranchised with the system.And it's partly probably becausecorporations have met them and not thatthey've boxed them in, but you want allthis stuff? All right,here you go. You got it.And this is going to be your pay. Andthese are going to be your hours. Andthese are the rules. And you get to doall these things thatyou think are important.You don't have maybe a dress code. Youcan have an earring in your nose and youreyebrow. You can grow yourhair long. You can have tattoos.That shit wasn't good when we were young,but it's all allowed now, right? Butthere are still rules and there is stillconformity. It's justdifferent conformity.Yeah. Yeah. So, um, has any generationbeen okay in corporate America? Or do youthink, I mean, I understand that it'sdifferent for them, but do you think, doyou think anybody walked into corporateAmerica in their 20sand was okay with it?I feel like boomers did.Well, no, very interesting question. I dothink boomers probably were. And if youthink about it, what I grew up with,right? Gen X was go get a job at IBM orget a job at AT&T and go become asalesman and work there for 45 years.And you'll have a pension or go get a jobat the government, right? Remember themovie? This, and I'vegot to watch this again.What was it? The death of a salesman or adeath was, was either.Yeah. Right. That that's probablytimeless. I got to watch it again. Ididn't watch it andappreciate it at the time.But maybe back then, but at the sametime, there's no way the 1967, the summerof love, right? Dropped in or tune in,drop out, right? The whole hippiemovement, the whole, that was a rebellionagainst corporate America and how things were formed.Functioning the war, the government,right? It was the whole thing. So no,there's always been issues.Yeah, I don't know. I do know that, youknow, it does seem like you said that alot of Gen Z doesn't like corporate life.I think startups offer a little bit of a,I guess, compromise because it seems likethe way they approach things is waydifferent than traditional,a traditional corporation.So that may be a landing pad for Gen Z'sand young millennials where they feelthat it's a good fit for them.It all depends. Startups are fun, but itall comes down to who the principalowners are and how crazy they are, right?If they're nuts, which they probably are,they're probably demanding.You're probably working 60 hours a weekwith the potential of, you know, youcould make a lot of money. Sure can,right? But there's a lot of manic, nuttytype, triple A people doing startups.Yeah. So, and the way this ties intoparenting, adult children, we're totallyoff the track. But we're not, but we'renot. Because I know there's some peopleare like, why are we talking about this?Because our kids are the ones, all of ourkids are the ones that are out thereworking for the first time, having theseexperiences for the first time, feelingdisenfranchised, having those feelingsof, is this what life is?You get up, you go to work, you come homebecause you're tired, you maybe try towork out and you go to sleepand you get up and do it again.And then you quote unquote live your lifeon the weekends and you do that over andover for the rest of your life. I thinkthat enlightenment happens.I don't know if enlightenment is theright word, but that realization happensin your twenties and that can be, you'vecome off the high of graduating fromcollege or, you know, graduated highschool and you just, you started working.The kids who graduated high school,weren't right into working, realized thisway sooner than kids that go to college.But you come off this high and then youstart working and it's exciting and youhave your first job.And it's almost like playing house. Likenow I'm an adult and I'm going to get upand I'm going to go to work. And thensomewhere along the lines,you're like, this is stupid.What am I doing? Is this what everyone'sdoing? Are we supposed to be happy doingthis? Are you happy doing this? I'm nothappy doing this, butwhat else is there to do?I think all of that happens in yourtwenties where you kind of getdisillusioned with life a little bit.Like, is this it? Is this what you allare doing? Because you don'treally know until you're there.You just know all the adults have beendoing something, but you've been atschool or, you know, you've been havingfun and now you're in it and you'rethinking, you know, maybe it looked funwhen people are getting cocktails afterwork or, you know, doing all those things.But then you realize it's exhausting.You're tired. You have to take care ofyourself or else you're going to totallyburn out. You have to keep working outand eating right. You're going to gainweight or be unhealthy.Like you have to take, you're gettingolder, so you have to pay more attentionto your health. Like all these things arehappening and I feel like it's almost adisillusionment, a little bit of, okay,this isn't quite what Ithought it was going to be.And then it, then I think you start tothink about, they start to think abouttheir twenties. Well, then what do I wantto do with my life? And then they realizethe limitations to some of the thingsthey may want to do.So that's what I think a lot of our kidsare going through in their twenties isthat moment. And then us parenting themthrough it, us being thereto guide them to give advice.But gotta be careful. I can't give toomuch because then they could feel likeyou're telling, you're telling them whatthey should do and they don't want you totell them what they should do unless theyask you and then it's okay.So there's like all these steps of wewant to be there. We want to besupportive. We want to offer youguidance, but also respect whateverdecisions you're making and they could becomplaining to you about something.And you know, the decision they're makingis just going to make the situationworse, but they're not listening to you.And that's where it gets hard. You'relike, Oh my gosh, you're just going tohave to go through this andI have to sit and watch you.I know what's going to happen and I haveto sit and watch you go through this oryour child gets stuck in a cycle of I'mnot happy. I want to make a change, butit's just, they're not making that changeor the change isn'tcoming for different reasons.And you're just having to watch them gothrough it and go through it and gothrough it. And you know, there'sprobably some things they could do tomake the change happen faster, but theydon't want to do those things yet.Well, what's interesting about that oneis the cycle. I want to do this. Allright, cool. Go do it. They didn't do ittwo months or two weeks, a month later. Iwant to do this. Wasn't that the samething you did? Yeah, go do it. All right.You're back. You know, the cycle of...Well, because I think they also getcaught up in, Hey, that weekend time iswhen they feel like they're living life alittle bit. So it's really a weird thing.You have to put in so much effort totruly create your own.You have to be so intentional to createthe life you want, but everything is soexpensive. You have to work. Youroverhead is taking most of your money.And then that little bit of life you havewith friends or a significant other, youget to live on the weekends or if you goon a vacation. So it doesn't leave asmuch time to necessarily buckle down andmake a huge change. If that makes sense.You kind of get stuck a little bit.You know, and that's where I think thefreedom, the financial freedom of, youknow, part of it in your twenties is youhave to just work. You just have to workand keep building up. So you make moremoney. So you have more freedom, I guess.And that's part of being in yourtwenties. Yeah. But I do think you haveto work, but I do think you have to worksmart. And this is why I always say youhave to sleep less, work harder, sleepless and teach yourself new things.You get out of college, maybe yourdegrees specific to your industry, yourdoctor, a lawyer, whatever. Maybe it'snot most of the time it's not. But Ithink that's where you have to justcontinue to teach yourself new things.And today it's AI. Learn how to do AI,learn how to become an AI programmer, anAI prompter, whatever it is, figure outhow to do AI. Because that is the futurefor the foreseeablefuture. Learn a trade.Right? We just had our air conditioningbreak. Cost us like 2,500 bucks just toget back up and keep cooling the house.Right? I want our youngest to go becomean air conditioning guy.So there's, but I think that's, you haveto figure that out. And now's the time,but when you're figuring stuff out, it'snot nearly as muchfun as already knowing.Right. That is the challenge of thetwenties, right? You're still figuringthings out. You're figuring out what youwant to do, what you like to do, what'sthe balance, how do you do all thisstuff? And it's just hard.And balancing out domestic life. Like,you know, friends are stillimportant for these people.Friends are still like, yeah, no, thetwenties is that show friends was truly agood representation of your twenties. I'mnot being literal where they all lived ina beautiful apartments in New York. See,I'm not talking about that. I'm talkingabout the things they went through. Someof the, some of the things they wentthrough were veryaccurate and a great depiction.And having a good friend support systemis so important in your twenties for somany, I call them kids. I know they'readults, but yeah. So they want to besocial. They want to feedthat part of their soul.But they also, you know, want to be happyin what they do for work. It's a crazy,that's why I say it's a hard time. It'strying, and it's as parents trying tofigure out how to be as supportive aspossible withoutoverstepping, without being too involved.And for a lot of kids, it is their firsttime running a household. You know, Iknow like for so much, many of our GenXers, we were us Gen Xers, we werecleaning the house after school. We were,we were taking care of everything. Yeah.Gen X didn't necessarily have their Gen Zkids do those things because I think fora lot of Gen Xers, we hated that we hadto do that at such a young age. So we didmake life a little easierfor them in their childhood.And I'm here to say I'm okay with that. Iknow there's people that judge that. Idid make life for my kids. Theirchildhood was the childhood that I wouldhave always wanted. And I'm totally fine.I gave that to them.So, but then what you do have admittedlyis kids who aren't doing their laundryregularly, cleaning regularly, takingcare of domestic things, domestic thingsregularly until they go to college anduntil they become adults.And I'm not saying our kids didn't help.I'm just saying that we didn't have themrunning a household like Gen X kids werewhen we were younger. So they're learninga lot of that domestic stuff orincorporating into their lives,in their twenties as well. So there'sjust a lot of new things that they'redealing with and it can be verystressful. And then that circles back tothey will see the anxiety and thatthey're, they willtalk about their anxiety.They will share about their anxietybecause they're dealing with all of theirjob issues, their dreams issues, theirsupporting friends,having friends in their lives.That takes time. That takes energy tohave quality friendships. Also, that'sthe time in your life in your twentieswhere you're shedding friends that don'tserve you anymore, that don't belong inyour life, that don'tbring you, they're not healthy.They might be toxic or when you startworking and you only have so much time inyour life, right? For to give to friendsto a significant other. And when you'rein your twenties and you're trying tobalance everything, it's the first timein your life you realize that.And you're like, I only have this muchtime. So I'm going to spend it with thefriends that are real, that areauthentic, that I connect with. You don'thave time anymore to spend time with fakefriends or with people you can't trust.Trust is also very important.As you're building this new life in yourtwenties, it's figuring out what friendsin my friend circle can I trust them?Which ones I can't, that's a big lifelesson. And that hitsyou a lot in your twenties.And you're also shedding friends frommaybe college, from high school, previousjobs. That is one of the first times Ithink as an adult, that you reallyrealize that you have to do that.Because it's the only way you're going tocontinue to thrive and be successful inyour life. And especially as you go intoyour thirties. And sothat's stressful too.You're actually hitting on something thatI haven't thought about, but it makes alot of sense. I bet your twenties is theyear, are the years where you really dothat. You start to, you shed, because incollege you still have somehigh school friends, right?And then you get, go through college andmake new friends, get out of college, youstill have some friends. Now to yourpoint, you have highschool and college friends.That's the first time where you do startto have to shed or people start to go indifferent directions. Because you aredoing professional things. You are doing,say some people start getting married,getting into more serious relationships.Figuring that they're learning where theygrew up isn't necessarily where they wantto live. They go somewhere else. Sodistance creates things or challenges.Yeah, I think you're on to something.That is that huge transition age. Thathuge transition phase of, you're sheddingyour childhood, youryoung adulthood and moving on.Do you recall though, do you recall us inthis phase and was itas dynamic as today?You can't compare. Okay. So you know whatI mean? We were so unusual because wewere that couple that got married a yearout of college. And then wehad a baby two years later.Yeah. So, and I'm not saying there aren'tpeople in their twenties doing that.Still there are, but it's very different.So we, we didn't, and then, you know, Iwas a stay at home mom. And, and, andjust to be clear, cause we had, we livedin a shoe box and we had one car and wedid not buy new clothesand we lived on a budget.We lived on year one salary, but itwasn't a big salary. So it was back whenyou could start your life and not have tohave everything. But now everyone intheir twenties thinks everything has tobe perfect, beautiful. And you need tohave every, you know what I mean?Is that a shift? Yeah. Like it was normalbefore to struggle in the beginning of arelationship or marriage or to strugglein your twenties and you build up yourwealth. Whereas I thinkwith social media and, um,I don't know, just society in general,all of a sudden everyone should expect tohave everything. Like even in yourtwenties, like you should have nice cars,nice house, clothes, everything in yourtwenties. And it's like,that was our struggle years.Do you think that's universal or just ourskewed world we live in in South Florida?You think that's going on across thecountry, across the world?Yeah. You see it on social media. That'swhat I'm talking about. So you see it onsocial media and that's, it's, I thinkit's completely universal. It's at leastthe universal in America. You know, thatI think the idea of the struggle, I don'tknow if it's still there anymore. And Ithink kids feel that they're supposed to,they're not doing well unless they havethis, that and the other thing. And it'slike, no, that's part ofbeing in your twenties.Yeah. You know, and for us, even when wewere married, we struggled through ourtwenties. Like we built what everythingup together. And that's part of amarriage. We've talked about that before,but, um, your twenties are, like yousaid, it's such a big transitionaldecade. And it is where you transitionaway from certain friends from college orhigh school. You transition into aprofessional world, whatever that may be.You transition into your own domesticlife, maintaining your own home, whateverthat is, apartment, whatever it is,you're having to maintain this domesticlife. You're having to pay your bills.You're having to work a job and then comehome at night and figure out if you'regoing to have time or energy to work out.If you're going to be social during theweek, or if that burns you out too muchand you can't do as well and work thenext day, you have to transition intoyour only true freedom is on the weekendsand planning out a vacation, which would,for your mental health,more than anything else.Um, so that decade, as you said, it'slike you are shedding, you're sheddingyour childhood and your adolescence andyou're really becoming an adult, but itreally is that decadewhere you're doing it.And that is where, as parents of thosekids, we have to be there to guide. Wehave to be there to share wisdom, but wehave to be there to give them grace tomake their own decisions and to maketheir own failures and be there when theyneed us as a landing pad.You know, it's, I would say the samething slightly differently in that whatI've learned, and I'm curious if you feelthe same way. We as parents transitionedfrom being solely parents and providersto being best friends, parents, mentors,career coaches, relationship coaches,counselors,psychologists, therapists, right?We go the whole financial advisors, thewhole thing. It's a fascinating thing.It's actually fun, but it's a wholeparadigm shift for us. Another phase ofgrowth for us as people.As parents. Yeah. And also I think abouton top of everything I just stated thatthey are going through in their twenties,then they want to find a partner.And that's a whole nother issue becausethey have their experience with that withdating apps, which seemed to be anightmare. And also with just the cultureof the fear of commitment, thesituationshipculture, the hookup culture.So they're going through all this stuff.Yeah, no, it's crazy. And then they wantit. A lot of them want to find someone tomarry. They just do like I know there's alot of there's a whole movement of women who are starting to get married.But there are still people who want toget married and have children. So thenthey have that pressure. I think it's adecade of pressure. And it's probably thefirst time that they felt it like it'sthe first decade. It's the first timethey felt adult pressure. So, but yeah,as parents, you play allthose roles you stated. Yeah.Every role you stated you have and youhave to be able to become that person atthe drop of a hat. Because your adultchildren, when they call you, you've been able to be able to have a person.And because it's something, there'ssomething there. We have a family chat.So that has always kept us reallyconnected with our kids. But and then wehave single chats with them. But as faras you're there to drop of a hat, or ifthey want to talk, you stop what you'redoing. And you listen, it's so important.I we're more present now than ever. Yeah,that's why I'm saying like empty nest. Idon't even know what that is. Even if it was a family chat, it's a family chat.It you're never disconnected because itcould be at any minute. I love it. I loveit. I don't know if that's true foreverybody. I mean, this, I don't thinkour situation's unique, but maybe it is.But I am a big believer that therelationship you get with your kids whenthey're adults is from the time you putin with them whenthey were children. Yeah.The reward is the relationship you havewith them when they're adults, you thetime you put in through their childhood.That is the reward. And there's someparents, I think that just expect to haveaccess to their children, because theyraise them, or they put a roof over theirheads or whatever. And so of course,they're going to get access to themwhenever they want. And that's not howthis works. The child decides, you know, what's the time?And then the child decides how muchaccess the parent gets to them,especially as adults, especially asadults. Yes. So, but as when they'readults, they have, they have to say onhow much access you get to them. Yes. Andthe access is determined by the kind ofrelationship you created with themthrough their childhood.Yeah. And I think and then as they getmarried, your access to their family isyour reward. And there's a lot of parentsthat think I've seen where they thinkthey just automatically get access totheir grandchildren, because theirgrandparents, whenever they want. It'slike, that's not how this works. Yourchild married someone. Now, they are afamily. And depending on your how yourrelationship is with them will determinehow much time you spend with them.And how much access you get to theirfamily. Do you think that's agenerational shift that's evolved overtime? Or do you think that's always beenthat way? Or feels like that could begenerational with the, I don't know.Yeah, I think I think millennials startedputting up boundaries, for sure, withtheir boomer parents, as far as once theygot married, and once they started havingchildren, I think millennials startedthat. Yeah, because I think I think itwas always the old adage ofyou just had to let your parentshave access, just come over and see thekids, or you had to bring the kids orwhatever, like, it would have neveroccurred to kind of determine our ownboundaries. Really, it was, we didn'treally have that, right? And I thinkmillennials said, no, like, this is ourfamily. And we deserve to have boundariesfor our little family. And then dependingon what kind of relationship they hadwith their parents determine how muchaccess their parents had to them. Sothat's why it's so important to put thatquality time in with your kids.Because if you want to continue to have atrue authentic and close relationshipwith them throughout the rest of yourlife, that's your reward. It doesn't justhappen. You're not just entitled to yourkids when they're adults. You are notjust entitled to your kids when they'readults. So that's something to remember.They don't owe you anything. That'sanother thing is like parents, I feel attimes have felt that their kids owe themsomething because they raised them or,but it's like you had the kids, the kids didn't owe you anything.You had the kids, the kids didn't chooseto be here. So, you know, you wantedthem, assumedly, but they don't owe youanything. You gave them life and youneeded to let them live it. And thenhopefully, you did right by them and theywant to still hang out with you. Thegreatest reward is that your kids want tohang out with you. It's the best thingever. It's the best thing. It's the bestthing ever hanging out withyour adult kids. It's so cool.So, but you had to put the time andeffort in to earn that. And on that note,you know, as your kids are adults, whoseresponsibility is it to stay in touch?Who's like, what would you say?What would I say? I think it's a two waystreet. I think it requires effort onboth sides personally. Yeah.So as far as makingphone calls or texting.Yeah. I mean, in a healthy relationship,it should absolutely be both. Right. Likefor instance, I get a text when ouryoungest catches a fish that he likes,you know, I'll get a text.We got a phone call the other day fromour oldest when the Knicks won. Hey, didyou see the Knicks game? Yeah.Got a text from our other one actuallywas texting with, with our daughter aboutF1 this morning. So, so there's a two waydialogue there that absolutely has tohappen. Right. And youput in the effort too.A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And Ithink with some of the older generations,they would just sit and wait for theirchildren to call them.That's how it is for my, me and my momfor sure. You know, I have to reach outto her. Now it's interesting because I'vethought about this in college. Iestablished the rules. There was notexting when we were in college.No, we didn't have cellphones. Landlined phones. Yeah.Yeah. So it was like, all right, don'tcall me. I'll call you. And then it wouldbe set aside time and I'd call it. And Ithink that carried on into post collegebecause she doesn't call me now.And so I have to, I do have to initiatethe call unless she needs something. Theydon't mean like just needs to communicatelike something. I want to come visit.Here's my dates type of thing. Butthere's no more of there's not the, Hey,how's it going? Type of thing.It's always been you calling her. Yeah. Ahundred percent. Right. So, but I thinkthat that's how the older generationswere are that they're like,my, my child doesn't call me.But it's more like you can call them, butI don't think generationally they dothat. I think they, and that could bepart of just the silent generation boomerculture is that my kids should call me.But I think so. Or mykids should visit me.Yeah, maybe. But I think that that's beena shift is that there is that two waystreet. Like, no, we'll reach out to youand you reach out to us, but we're goingto put that effort into.So, but I do, I do think it'sgenerational. That part of it could bebecause, um, I don't know with my mom, wehad such a different relationship. Wewere in contact a lot, but she would callme and I would call her. Yeah.So, but she was a single mom. So I thinkthat's also different. Yeah. You know, I,again, I think I drew the boundaries incollege for a lot of reasons probably,but I went to school 3000 miles away. Andso it was a, you know,there's time zone differences.And I was almost like, I don't want totalk right now, so I'll, I'll call, I'lllet you know when time is good. And thatmay or may not be good or healthy, but itis what it is. Right. But then when youwere an adult, it still was like that. Itwas on you to call her. Yeah. Yeah. Andthat never adjusted. Yeah. Now, I don'tknow if it's generation or justrelationship. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.Generational. But I don't know. But Ithink for at least those,those of us that are Gen X.I have a feeling we reach out to our kidsjust as much as they reach out to us. Ifeverything's normal, you know, if youdon't have any strife or whatever, Ithink it's, I think I could see ourgeneration has no issue reaching out totheir kids. No, I don't think we have anyissues, but I also think we have justsuch different tools. The fact that wecan text is huge because texting isnon-interruptive or disruptive orinvasive. Right. It's like text. Yeah.It's like text if they reply right away.No, if I get a text in the morning, say,Oh, I was out last night. Yeah,everything's cool. That's fine, too.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, that's beenhuge. Yeah. Like when our kids go tocollege, when they went to college, wekept that family chat. So we were alwaysin contact with them. So by the time theywould come home for holidays or whatever,there was no awkward stage of, Oh, wehave to kind of get used to it. We haveto catch up. There was no catching upbecause texting allowed us to always be involved in their life. Yeah.So that's a wonderful thing. Yeah. Youknow, but I do think, I think in generalthough, Gen X is aware enough to knowthey have to put in the work and theeffort with their kids and their kidsdon't owe them anything in general. I'msure there's still some Gen Xers that,you know, haven't evolved to that yet.But I think, I think we're pretty goodwith that. You know, I don't know.That's, that's thevibe I get with our kids.Yeah. I don't, I would say, I had tothink about that, that our kids don't oweus anything for a second, but I, I agree.They don't owe us. We, we had them. Itwas our obligation to, to provide forthem, to set them up on the right path asbest as anybody could for life. Right.And, and I don't mean like financiallyper se, but just the tools.Give them opportunities, give them tools,give them support because we brought theminto this world so they don't owe usshit. But if you do want to have arelationship, you have to evolve. We, youknow, we've kind of talked about thatbefore. You do have to evolve out of ourGen X, feral state, whatever that mightbe for whoever it is.Yeah, no, I think, I do think though, ifyou've put in the time and you have thehealthy relationship with your kidsthrough their childhood, you are going tohave that respect. Your kids willcontinue to respect you throughout theiradult lives. They'll continue to come toyou for advice. And they will continue tocare what you think. And they'll continueto want to spend some time with you oneway or another. But I think, again,that's the reward you get.For the time you putin, in their childhood.I would agree.And I think that's, that's just what youcontinue doing when they're adults,especially in their twenties is youcontinue to put that effort in. Youcontinue to play all those roles.Financial advisor, therapist, you know,just general support system.Well, all the different hats we wear nowfor them, you just have to continue toshift those hats a little more quicklybecause their lives are moving morequickly. Yeah. But you have to still putin that effort tomaintain that relationship.And that's why I say there is no emptynest. It's an openness because they'realways going to still come back to youfor different things and not in acodependent way, just in a healthyrelationship, parentalchild relationship way.And I think that's, that's an opennessmore than anything else.I'd be curious to, I would love, youknow, it's hard in this format, but I'dlove to hear other parents, like some,for instance, and I'd be curious for you.But, you know, one minute I might get atext on the fish I caught the next it's,I want to go here. What do I think aboutthis? You know, in the other one, it'slike, you know, thetopics are just to your point.You've always got to be ready. You don'tknow what it's going to be. Yeah. It'sjust so true. Your game has to be on.Yeah. And this whole concept of sleepingsoundly now that they're all adults.It's like, that's as I saw, you stillhave your phone by, I saw my phone by thebed, ready to answer. They could at anytime need something still. So it's, butit's, I'm not making it sound like yourshands on is when they'rekids. So it's not like that.But it's more mental. It's more of amental thing of I need to mentally beready. What's coming at me. You just gotto be ready for what's going to come atyou, you know, and then there's thephysical of I need you to help me move.And all of that. So it's just, and Ialways say it never ends. It never ends.Now when they become parents, then youtransition into grandparents. But I thinkyou're still supportive of your childrenalways, no matter what, because thentheir parents that's that may needguidance come to you for advice or justsupport or just just mental support ofjust us saying you'redoing a great job. Yeah.Yeah, you don't question yourself. You'redoing good. I think kids always need.They need their parents approval in oneway or another. Always. I don't thinkthat ever ends. It might have longerspaces and time when they need it. But Ithink if you have that healthyrelationship with your adult children,they're always still going to come to youjust for that confirmation of am I doingam I still doing okay? Yeah, yeah.Am I still making the right decision? Areyou proud of me? Yeah, adult childrenstill need to know that their parents areproud of them. It's so important to saystill say once in a while, I'm so proudof you. I'm proud of the decision youmade. It's still important to say I loveyou. You know, it's so important to givehugs. They are still your child. And asindependent as they are, they still needthat access to that part of their parent. And that's another thing.That's important is balancing out. Youknow, it's funny that support and thatlove without overstepping. Yeah. Youknow, what's funny is everything you justdescribed applies to the 20 something's.But then you've got the 15. Yeah. It wastotally different, right? Yeah. It's likethey're they love the attention andappreciation and validation. Whereas the15 year old's like, I'm fine. Let mealone. And yet he still wants it.Totally. You know, they also say aboutadolescents is when they seem like theydon't need you the most is when they needyou the most. Yeah. And it's justimportant that you just keep loving onthem. Yeah. And you just keep you say itbecause it matters. And they feel it.Yeah. It's just that they're trying tobreak away and have autonomy. So they'reacting like they don't give a crap. Yeah.Yeah. But they do. Yeah. And that's andthen they come out of that. And theymature. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the fun part. That's the thing.That's the fun part. That's riding thewave. Yeah, totally. That's riding thatwave of my kids seems like he doesn'twant anything to do with me. Yeah. Andthis is what I have to love on him thehardest. Yeah. Because he's going to comeout of this. And then we are still good.And it's still healthy relationship.Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people willthink, Oh, I just need to get them totalspace and not talk to them and not askthem questions. That's actually when youneed to keep asking the questions youneed. Now you need to figure out how todo it. You got to, you know, take thequestion. Sometimes I wait for himto come to me to share something. I knowhe's got something to share. I might haveto wait a week before he finally tellsme, or I take a step forward and then Itake three steps back. But you can't stopduring that time, no matter how painfulit might be at times. You know, becausethere's times they literally don't thinkit just seems like they don't care aboutyou at all. Again, we're talking aboutteenagers, not the 20 something. But, um,and that's a whole nother dance, youknow, so I mean, we've worn many hats. Sobeing the, the parents,parents of adult children now in theirtwenties, um, that's been a totallydifferent ride, you know? And my adviceto people that whose kids are about tograduate college and enter that world,give them grace. They need it. It's noteasy. And, um, they're encountering everysingle thing in society as an adult forthe first time. And it's, it can be crazyand confusing and disillusioning anddisheartening and amazingand wonderful and exciting.And all the good things too. So it's justkind of trying to be there for them asthey're on that ride, you know? I thinkthat's my advice is just, just be that,be that stable force for them still. Asyou always have been through theirchildhood, they still need you to be thatstable force for them asthey go through their twenties.I would say the, the only thing I wouldadd to that, I totally agree, would beprobably open up a little more energy onthe friend zone side. And you're, we'resaying maybe the same thing, you know,give them grace. I'm saying to me thattranslates maybe to friendship, lessparental oversight and more friendship. Igot it. Yeah, I get it, man. This is, youknow, think about this, think about that.Yeah. Yeah. Friendship. Yeah. They need afriend. 100%. Yeah. You still have tohave their back. Yeah. It's just in adifferent way now. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.100. And it's not easy. And it's not easymentally for parents either. And, and forsome parents, um, they do feel it's anemptiness and it's a huge life change forthem. And so, and who knows they may feelthat their child is truly leaving whenthat's true. It's not that it's just thatthey're trying to tackle this hugethis huge part of their life. So theycould have their own personal things.They're going through with that too. Andso it's not the easiest for parentseither. The whole, the whole transition.It's such a transitional decade foreverybody. Do you think that, cause Ilove it. I absolutely love it. I lovetheir ages. I love the kids, the peoplethey've become. I love my relationshipswith them. I'm the dad. Do you thinkthere's a difference though? Like, do youhave the same perspective? Do you? Idon't have this sense of loss as the dad.I love it. I love watching them mature,become independent, becoming financiallyindependent, all of that. Um, as a mom,is it different than my perspective? Doyou think? Um, I mean, probably I thinkmoms have a harder time with it justbecause they in general have been themain caregiver of the children. Even ifthe mother's working, she's still that,that one, those children go to. You'vementioned it before. You care theemotional women, moms care, the emotionalburden baggage for the family. Yes. Sodoes it change then? Do you think interms of, do you have less of them havean emotional baggage and burden or load?No, no, because like I said, I'm just asworried about them in their twenties andsometimes more so. Yeah.Because they're in the world.Cause now I worry about the world on my,you know, they're really out there. SoI'm like, world, please don't destroy mybabies. Let me ask you this then.What about in college? Cause I feelthat's where I was really not as stable.Right. When they were in college andbecause they're out of the house, youknow, that kind of thing. And they're notmature there. There's a lot of influencesof, of other people, other collegepeople. There's partying involved and allthat stuff. Right. And so, yeah. Do youthink for me, high school's one thing,college, I think was probably the worstfor me in that sense.And then now that they're out of collegeon their own, they are nearby, whichhelps. Yeah. I'm good. I love it. Yeah.Yeah. Yeah. But what, how do you, how doyou work through college?I was definitely worried. I was worriedabout the college life hurting my babies.Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's like babysteps, right? So when they are in middleschool, I'm worried about thekids hurting my babies. Then when they'rein high school, I'm worried about, um,they're in a car for the first time andthey're partying for the first time.So I'm worried about those aspects thatgo along with hurting my babies.And then in college, I'm worried aboutcollege life hurting my babies.And then in the twenties, I'm worriedabout the world hurting my babies. So,um, and that, I don't know ifthat's the brain of a mother.Yeah, it could be. Idon't know. Cause that's, I'm,I'm always worried abouttheir safety. That never ends.I'm always worried about something'sgoing to happen to them.And maybe that's the mind of a mother.It's just what could hurt them getsbigger as they get bigger.And so, and when I say that's where youfeel like you have no control whenthey're in their twenties, it's that it'snot that I want to control them.I have no control over the, what theworld's going to do to them.And so that's where prayer comes in.That's where I use prayer.Um, I pray for their safety.Yeah. Interesting. Um, and then I prayfor their mental health and I pray for,um, them to find success in what thedreams they're trying to accomplish andthat they find contentment. Cause I thinkcontentment is happiness and,um, that they find health and take care,taking care of themselves.There's like levels I pray on. It's morereal life stuff I worry about, you know,and that's kind of how I've evolved as aparent while giving them the space togrow and be their own people and still bethere for them when needed.And it never ends. There's no end. Itjust, you're just always evolving.You're always evolving. And again,you create the openness because ifeverything does fall apart in their life,they can always come home and that willnever change till the day I die.They can always come home.Yeah. So, and that's, I think that's,that's how we've raised them.And they know that too. So, but it's noteasy. So for any parents that are,have kids in high school, college andtwenties, we get it. And, uh,but we are here to sayparenting adult children,it's not easy. It is so rewarding. And Iknow you're loving it.I'm loving it too, but, um,it isn't just like you cutthe cord and off they go. And,and then we all live our married lives asa couple and you know, oh yeah,there they are. That's not how, that'snot people like that. There's peoplelike that. That's not us. There's peoplelike that. And that's fine.If that works for their family, you know,then that's how their family functions.That's just not how we function.And I don't think that's how a lot of GenXers function about their kids,but there certainly are as well. So itjust depends what works.So that's what our sharing about whatit's like to parent adult children.So far, the next phase is their thirties.And I have a feeling that's going to bea whole nother, um, experience, but we'realmost to the end of twenties with ourolder son. He's 28. Yeah. He has two moreyears and then unbelievable.He's going to be 30. So, um, yeah,so hopefully this resonated with some ofour listeners and we would love to hearfrom you any commentsor questions or, um,observations or anything you want toshare about your own parenting,experiencing experiences of adultchildren. We love to hear from you.So, um, please feel free andwe'll see you next time. Bye.