Episode 27 - The Millennials - Guller Artwork

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GenX Adulting Podcast

Episode 27 - The Millennials - Guller

March 30, 2025 • Brian & Nicole • Season 1 • Episode 27

In this episode we welcome Guller, a Millennial/Zillennial. Guller shares with us his father’s move from Turkey to America, and his parents eventual meeting on a blind date at Chapel Hill. He shares the origin of his name, which is a combination of his Turkish and rural North Carolina roots. We learn how Guitar Hero literally struck a chord in him when he was in elementary school, which sparked a desire to learn how to play music with a focus on guitar. Guller shares how a random moment of dabbling on his Turkish grandmother’s old piano led to the discovery of a natural talent on the keys that his parents fostered with piano lessons. He touches on how lack of preparation for a piano recital when he was in middle school taught him a lifelong lesson that he still uses to this day. We learn of Guller’s musical inspirations which include The Grateful Dead, Billy Joel, The Allman Brothers, Elton John and The Beatles, just to name a few, and how his parents constant support of his love for music facilitated growth and personal success for him. Guller reflects on his years attending Florida State University and how he almost didn’t graduate if it weren’t for the discovery of a woman named Jill who tirelessly aided people by helping them find a strategy to finish their education. We also learn how his strong support system of friends and family helped him embark on a successful wellness journey. After a modified “GAP Year” that was a few months of travel, Guller began his career in tech sales, all while balancing being a member of a few different bands. I think we counted about 10 bands Guller has been a member of from his middle school days to today, and we’re sure that number will continue to climb throughout his life. We especially enjoyed discussing The Grateful Dead’s music and culture, and hearing his perspective while also sharing our own. Guller is currently playing shows with his band 59 Shop while enjoying continued success in tech sales working for Finally, a company that offers a full accounting and finance suite to its customers. We thoroughly enjoyed Guller’s story, and were especially impressed with his passion and drive in balancing his music and business career in addition to continually growing in his personal life. We definitely plan on seeing Guller perform live in the near future, and look forward to hosting him again in the studio!

59 Shop
https://www.instagram.com/59shopband/
https://open.spotify.com/artist/7uwzPFpOuIV0vymZvjSTnT

Wrasse
https://www.instagram.com/wrassetheband/
https://open.spotify.com/track/3qNt03V9hOBemv3jHUIin5?si=ccc81e00b6c342fe

The Pleasures
https://www.instagram.com/thepleasuresss/

Finally
www.finally.com

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[MUSIC]

Welcome to GenX Adulting.

Today we have Gullar with

us. Welcome to the studio.

Thank you guys so much.

We're happy to be here.

We're so happy that you're here.

The first question

that we ask everyone is,

what year were you born?

I was born in 1996.

1996. You are the youngest millennial.

This is news to me.

[LAUGHTER]

He's the expert here on this.

Yeah. You're also part of

the micro generation

called Zillennials.

Have you ever heard of that?

I did. I saw some of

the other episodes.

I know Nate was like,

I think I'm a Zillennial.

Yeah.

[LAUGHTER] You guys are Zillennials. It's like the

few younger millennials

and the older GenZs because you are

that unique group

that were able to have

an old-fashioned childhood before

technology stepped in.

Even though when you guys had phones,

I don't think they were anything like

the phones now, right?

No, definitely not. You weren't as

connected as you are now,

which was a blessing.

You don't have to respond every text

immediately because it

takes three minutes to

even respond to a text.

[LAUGHTER]

Because you had to hit

one number three times,

I think, just to get to a

letter that you wanted, right?

Yeah. You don't get the emails, you

don't get the slacks,

you don't get the Instagram likes.

Yeah.

It was a different experience for sure.

Yeah. You guys-

Much quieter.

Yeah. You didn't

rely on validation from

Instagram likes or

from social media likes,

especially during

those formative years,

which I think is awesome for you guys,

that you were able to get

through your years without

that part of social media,

the FOMO and all that stepping in.

But you guys did have Facebook, right?

You use that as your technology?

I remember I was in, I don't know,

maybe seventh grade

and I was like, "Hey,

dad, think I could

make a Facebook account?"

He's like, "All right, go for it."

Sure. My posts were so stupid.

I was looking back at it just the other

day and just nonsense.

But make little side groups with three,

four friends and just jokes

that wouldn't make any sense to anyone

that was outside of them.

The fact that I even had the audacity

to put that out there

for the people to see,

it's like scratch

your head after the day.

Yeah. I think the word is cringe,

most people say that they look back and

they say how cringe it all is.

Now, I think just boomers and older Gen

X are pretty much maybe

some older millennials.

I don't know, maybe sharing their

pictures of their kids.

It's definitely explained

towards folks our age and above.

It is. I think your age definitely

still uses Instagram.

Yeah, I was off for a while, but I got

back on start of the year.

It's one of those things where it's

like you realize it's not good for you.

So you take a break and then you're

like, "Shit, I should

probably get back on."

Yeah. You want to meet people.

I want to show some of

the cool things I'm doing.

Yeah. Especially for the music stuff.

I always like to post and

promote and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm back now.

Now, do you Snapchat or

are you done with that?

I did for a while. And

no, I don't Snapchat.

Actually, I kind of get annoyed when I

get a Snapchat notification.

I should probably just

delete this from my phone.

Does anyone your age really use it?

There's some people.

My sister, she's two years younger than

me and she uses it.

Okay. And then what about TikTok?

I never got on TikTok.

I know a lot of people

my age are on TikTok.

I've already got enough to just scroll

and get distracted by it.

I didn't need one other thing.

No, that's smart. It's very smart

because it's the consumption.

It's just the constant conception.

And also, as you just alluded to,

the 24-7 access people have to you

between texting, email.

So just to have that break,

you don't need to throw in

another vehicle into that.

So were you born in one place

or did you move around

a lot in your childhood?

I was born in

Charlotte, North Carolina.

Okay. And I moved down.

My mom, my dad, my sister and I, when I

was four years old.

Okay. And we moved to Delray.

We moved in one house.

You know, we were there

for probably two, three years

and moved to a house about

a minute and a half away.

Okay. So you've grown

up in South Florida?

I've been in Delray ever since 2000.

Okay. So you're a South Florida boy?

Yeah, for the most part.

All intents and purposes.

Now, how does your parents meet?

So it's funny.

So my dad, his name is Ufuk.

He is originally from Turkey.

Okay.

So he moved over.

His dad was a doctor.

And he had studied

medicine in the States briefly.

They go back to Turkey.

And then he says, you

know what? I want to go back.

I want to keep learning,

become a better doctor.

So he moved the family.

They were in West

Virginia for a little bit.

And then they moved to a small rural

town in North Carolina

called Taylor'sville.

And my mom is also

from rural North Carolina,

like Salisbury, like

Rockwell, Granite Corps area.

And then they met

actually on a blind date

at University of Chapel Hill.

Oh, no way.

They didn't like each other at first.

And then it turns out that

like the following semester,

they got partnered

up in a biology class.

Oh, wow.

The flame kind of got rekindled.

Yeah, yeah.

And now here I am.

So it's destiny.

It was definitely destiny.

Mom says my dad really

had to work for her though.

That's good.

That's good.

That's how it should be.

So when your dad came over here,

so he was born in Turkey.

Yeah.

And he moved when he was two.

So he's pretty much Americanized then.

Yeah.

Like that's all he knows.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's a handful of times.

We have some family there still.

He speaks beginner

intermediate level Turkish.

I speak no Turkish.

Okay.

Bieraz means very little.

What is it?

Bieraz?

Bierdaz?

I'm probably botching it anyway.

Well, I just did it

even worse, I'm sure.

So now your grandparents,

your grandpa moved the family over here

and then they just stayed here.

Did they ever move back?

Or they said--

The plan was to go back.

But once they got here, they were like,

"God, we're just gonna stay."

And after they were empty nesters,

they would go spend a year in Turkey,

a year here, a year

in Turkey, a year here.

Nice.

Yeah.

So do you have a lot

of family still there?

I have family there.

It's distant for me at this point.

I am planning to go to

Greece later this year

for a friend's wedding.

I figure if I'm over there,

might as well stop by Turkey.

Yeah.

And just kinda,

I haven't been back since my

grandparents passed,

unfortunately.

It's been like,

they were the bridge kind of between me

and my sister and Turkey.

So it'll be a different

experience for sure going back.

But I have family

members, they speak English.

They do well.

So it'll be good.

It'll be cool for you

because were you more in your team?

How old were you when

your grandparents passed?

I was in my early 20s

when my grandma passed

and maybe a little bit

younger when my grandpa passed.

Okay, so then now that

you're in your late 20s,

probably a whole new perspective.

Oh, definitely.

You know, if you were to go over there

and now that the

frontal lobe has closed

and all that good stuff.

Okay, so, and you have a sister.

I do, Sydney.

And is she younger?

Two years younger.

And are you guys close?

Yes, very close.

She's amazing.

She's so supportive.

I'm really fortunate that I can talk to

her about anything.

We have a great time together too.

She's here in Boku as well.

Okay.

And were you always close?

She tells it differently than I do.

She's like, you know,

there was a really rough state

where you were mean.

And I don't seem to

remember it that way if you ask me,

but I guess we're closer now than we

have been in the past.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that happened

with our two older kids

as there was a period where like Nathan

couldn't stand Kaya.

And I don't think she

remembers that, but he does.

And then all of a

sudden they were back in

and bonded and everything.

And now they're like best friends.

Just the younger sister,

older brother dynamic probably.

Yeah.

And as you get older

too, you realize like,

you know, if we had differences, like

you are my only sibling.

Yeah.

So, you know, I love

you and I'm really happy

that we're here.

That's one of the things

that's a big blessing for me

is that my family is all within 10

minutes of each other.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's cool.

It's huge.

So your name, is that Turkish?

So it's a, it's kind

of a hybrid actually.

So the G-U-L, it means

smile, ghoul in Turkish.

And my mom being from rural North

Carolina was kind of like,

you know, let's slap an E-R on the end.

So it's kind of like

smiler, but the Turks don't know

what it is.

Americans have trouble pronouncing it.

Have you, I think you're the only,

only Guller in the world, right?

I think that's what you

have on your Instagram.

Yeah.

The only Guller you'll ever meet.

Yeah.

There is, some people

have it as a last name.

Okay.

But as far as first names

go, I think I'm the only one.

Yeah.

I love that.

I absolutely love that because it

completely represents

both of your parents'

backgrounds perfectly.

And I love that she

Americanized it so much.

I don't even know where

the other L came from.

Yeah.

She probably was like,

oh, that looks better

with another L.

Let's do two L.

Because otherwise it could be like

Guller and that's a

little, I don't know, it's too much.

Yeah.

I tell people it's like color with a G.

Yeah.

That's a really good way to say it.

No, I love that.

So when they, to go

back to West Virginia,

do you know what town they landed in?

No, I don't.

Okay. I wonder if it was Morgantown.

Cause if he was in medical field,

University of West Virginia,

West Virginia University is there.

Yeah.

The good medical program.

Brian Hepp's family from Morgantown.

So that's what we always

ask whenever someone says

West Virginia, I'm

like, do you know what part?

It's a big state too.

So it's not like, you know.

Yeah.

Almost seven.

Yeah.

Almost seven.

Yes.

100%.

So your elementary school years,

was there anything in particular

through elementary school

or middle school that

you focus on athletics

or art or music?

Yeah.

I always played football

growing up and you know,

my family and I were big dolphins fans.

My dad, even growing

up in North Carolina,

I think I guess it was Dan Marino,

but he was always a big dolphins fan.

So we've been raised that way.

They've season tickets.

So I always played myself and you know,

as far as music goes,

yeah, this is

something I wanted to ask you,

I don't know if, like when,

did you have music

classes when you were in school,

when you guys were growing up?

Yes.

Did you recall like having

to learn to play the recorder?

Oh yeah.

Yes.

It's timeless.

Yeah.

And to me it felt pointless because I'm

not a music person.

Sure.

So for a lot of kids, you

sit in there and you're like,

why am I learning three

blind mice on this recorder?

But it's for those kids.

It's terrorized your parents.

Yes.

But also there are those

kids in there like you,

who are musically inclined.

And it's, that's where I

think a lot of that works.

You know, so it weeds out like these

kids aren't into music,

but you get those few that are.

So you probably enjoyed that, right?

Well, I didn't really know I was into

music at that point.

Okay.

You know, you guys asked me to do a

little questionnaire,

you know, before I came in,

one of the things I put on

was getting Guitar Hero 2

when I was eight.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it was a Christmas and it must've

been when I was seven,

getting ready to turn eight.

And I got, I got open the Xbox,

I started here at two, I

set up in the living room

and I started

playing, playing, playing.

And I got, I got pretty

good, not like top, you know,

to, but, but I was playing on expert.

I got a hundred

percent on a couple of songs.

And my mom, she's like, man,

you've really picked up this game.

You know, you should get

some, some music lessons.

And I said, all right, guitar.

Yeah.

I want to be a rock star.

Yeah.

I'm glad to do it.

And she goes, okay, no problem.

We'll find you guitar teacher.

And again, major shout out to my

parents for just, you know,

seeing that it was something

that I was interested in and

saying, Hey, you know, I

really want to enable you to do

this.

But for whatever reason,

we had a hard time

finding a tar teacher.

So my sister, she's

like, all right, well,

we're going to start at you on piano.

Why we look for a

guitar teacher for Gulliver.

And in the recorder

class, we had a teacher.

I was talking to a book, a Christian,

and we had a teacher, miss blankenship,

and she would kind of

play the notes on the piano.

She was showing us like basic sheet

music while we were

playing along.

I came home from school one day and we

had this old kind of

upright piano that my Turkish grandma

had given us because

nobody was using it.

So maybe the kids will want to play.

And I sat down and I'm like

looking at it and Mary had a

little lamb is the one that everyone's.

I'm just kind of like, you know,

(singing)

my mom runs in, she's like, Sydney,

that's the best you've ever played.

And then she looks,

she goes to Gulliver,

what the hell?

She's like, that's it.

No guitar lessons for you.

You're getting piano lessons.

Yeah.

So yeah, that was when I was eight.

So I've always kind of focused on that.

I played, I was in the

band, I played trumpet.

Okay.

So that's like eight.

That's what, third grade?

Fourth grade, that's

still pretty young.

No, no, not, yeah, that is maybe a

little too early for

that.

I didn't start trumpet

until the fifth grade.

Okay, but the guitar hero

thing that would have been

was like third grade.

And that's still pretty early to

discover that passion,

which is great.

And you did have music classes, right?

In your school?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if they

still do have music classes.

I don't know.

They must.

I think Christian or Catholic schools,

religious schools probably.

Yeah, I just want, because Dylan,

when he was at, he

was in Catholic school,

he played the recorder, but I don't

know if public school

does.

I have no idea.

I don't know if they've cut that out.

I think it's so important.

Like, Boca Middle has like their band,

but maybe you have to

elect to be in band.

Yeah.

I don't know if, for, at

Boca Christian was one of those

things where everyone goes into the

library on like the

last hour of the day and they're like

pick an instrument.

Yes.

Some people are like,

"I wanna play saxophone.

I wanna play trumpet."

So that's awesome.

That is cool.

That's a big facilitator actually.

Yeah.

Then you can discover what

you might be interested in.

Sure.

That's cool.

A lot of kids are just like,

"Well, let me just bang on the drums."

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, that's cool.

So then you did band

what through middle school?

I did it all the way up

and through my first year

of high school and I

was actually, you know,

I was decent and there were

kind of two things that led me

to stop playing the

trumpet and focus more on piano.

And one was I had this

teacher, the band teacher,

and to move up from

like the first level,

which was the concert

band to the symphonic band,

you had to also be

in the marching band.

And I was playing football.

So I was like, all

right, well, there's that.

So I don't know.

There were some kids that did both

and like during the

games they would run

and they would change and then they

would put the hat on

and then they'd go back.

So that was one thing that I was like,

oh, that seems like a lot.

And then I had a teacher who was,

he's a fantastic trumpet player.

I mean, God, I was really next level.

And he's like, you've got potential.

You know, teachers

always hype up their students.

He's like, all you have to

do, wake up every morning,

6 a.m. and do mouthpiece

exercises for like two hours.

And then when you get home from school,

you got to play for another two hours.

And I was like, man, I think I'm just

gonna play the piano.

Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of commitment.

It was, yeah.

But I mean, that's

what it takes, I guess,

if you're gonna really

make it your likelihood

and your passion, but--

100%, yeah, I was gonna--

But in some ways, if you

didn't do it on your own,

maybe it wasn't the passion.

You had an interest,

but it wasn't like,

oh, I have to have

this trumpet all the time.

No, it wasn't.

I mean, among the other

things I was doing too,

and also like, I was

a pretty good student,

I'd say through the middle school

years, high school,

I was a good student,

but I was more extracurricular oriented

and less like, let me do

every homework assignment.

Yeah.

And then that kind of shifted

some of my priorities and my time too.

I was gonna ask you, how did you

balance sports and music?

Because both, especially at that age,

did you play travel sports at all?

Oh, no, just with the school.

Okay.

So I played like Boca Christian,

which honestly

surprised we even had this,

but we had a tackle football team.

Well, the middle is like small

Christian middle schools,

like they just do flag football.

And we're out there, like, I mean,

you can imagine a bunch of, you know,

however old we are, like, you know,

small white guys going

out to the Everglades,

playing Pahokee and

it was Glades Central.

I'll never forget one day.

So I'll tell a quick story.

We had a dude on our team

that was our biggest player,

and he was like our nose tackle.

And sometimes he would play center too,

and his name was Grant.

And they said, all right, Grant,

this team is way bigger than us.

So we're gonna just

put you at full back

because we think

that's the only opportunity

that we have to even,

you know, move ball.

Yeah.

And on the very first play of the game,

when they handed to

him, he runs up the middle

and got hit by one of

their linebackers so hard

that he actually got

carried off in a neck brace.

No way.

Oh my God.

He's fine now, he's fine now.

But the rest of us are

sitting there with straps

and we're like, coach, we're fucked.

(laughing)

What did you do?

We lost, we lost in dramatic fashion.

Yeah, I'm sure.

Did everybody just kind

of dive and try to say,

like, I would have been so

scared to go back out there.

We had another coach and

he was like, all right,

here's the game plan.

Every play on the offensive line, just

dive at their knees.

We're like, coach, I don't think that's

allowed in football.

And he's like, it's our only chance.

That's funny.

South Florida is an

extremely good football region.

So you're a little

Christian school going up

against some of these

powerhouses just isn't--

It's so true.

It's probably not fair.

It taught me a couple of things about

resilience, I guess.

Yeah, for sure.

So then playing for the

school probably did allow you

to have some, you could

balance music and sports.

You can have the best

of both worlds there.

We had our practices after school

and then we had games once a week, so.

So you stayed, so you stopped the band

after freshman year, you said?

Of high school, yeah.

Of high school.

So then you were just doing football?

Just doing football.

And so did you continue to play piano

in your outside of school?

Yeah, so once we did

find a piano teacher for me

and his name is Dave

Kirk, he's amazing.

If he's around here, he's around here.

So definitely go look

for him, get some lessons.

But he taught me so

much about the technique

and the technical component.

And then I got to a certain point,

actually here's another story.

So when I was at Boca Christian,

they also had a praise band

that would play on Fridays.

And it was like, as you'd imagine,

like praise and worship, like very,

it's like poppy Christian music.

And I was pretty good.

And I was like, all

right, you know what?

I'm gonna go audition for

the praise and worship band.

I walk in and I know how to read music.

He's been kind of training

me on some classical stuff.

Also my parents, big on

Billy Joel, Elton John.

So I'm learning that kind of music.

I was gonna ask you about that.

Some of the influences.

So those two come to mind for sure.

Sure.

And actually my first

concert was Billy Joel.

My parents took me.

That's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, I remember.

This is the quick aside.

We're up in the nosebleeds.

It was where the heat used to play.

And I keep asking my

mom, like after every song,

like when's he gonna play piano man?

She's like last.

And I was young.

I couldn't understand

the concept of encore.

And I was like, please

piano man, please piano man.

That's so cute.

But we were saying.

About playing piano with your teacher.

Oh yeah, right.

Your teacher, Mr. Kirk, right?

Yes, Mr. Kirk.

And so I go to

audition for the praise band

and I sit down and they

hand me like a lead sheet.

It's like, okay, here are the chords.

A, F minor, E, F sharp minor.

And I'm like, I have no

idea how to play these

because I'd only learned

how to read sheet music.

So then I had to go back to him

and he's a great jazz player.

Some of his influences

are some of the greats,

Oscar Peterson, Bill Evans, exactly.

And so I'm like, no, David, Mr. Kirk,

he wanted me to call him

Dave, but I never would.

My parents were

like, call him Mr. Kirk.

Yes, yes.

And I was like, I gotta

learn how to read this stuff.

I don't know how to do it.

And I'm sure he wanted

me to keep learning jazz

and classical, but

he stopped everything

and he tailored his

approach to help me understand

how to read chords, how to improvise

and things like that.

So I owe him a huge, huge thanks

for helping me

progress to that component.

Because when it gets

to playing with a band,

playing with other musicians,

you have to be able

to speak that language

and you have to be able to listen and

look and say, okay,

this gives me some

freedom to do other things

and just stay within the box

of what's previously

written in sheet music.

So I'm not completely grasping.

So you could read sheet music,

which I thought was what you

just said, like the letters.

But how, when you

walked in to audition,

what were they presenting to you?

How would you explain it's

different than sheet music?

Yeah, totally.

So like sheet music is

like, I mean, everyone knows

kind of what sheet music

looks like with the lines.

Yes, yes.

The sheet music is the individual notes

that you're supposed to play and the

timing of it all, right?

You got it.

And then the chords are more,

there's probably greater variance.

Maybe you could explain that better.

I don't know the chord part of it, but.

Yeah, no problem.

So like you would look at, basically

it's a page of lyrics.

And then on the page

of lyrics above the word

where the chord changes, it would say

like play an A chord.

It just says a letter A versus opposed

like all the little dots in the lines.

Yeah. Okay, okay.

So the first time I

didn't know, I was like,

are you playing A?

So I just put one finger

on the piano and like A, D.

And they're like, you need to go

practice a little more.

Okay, okay.

So when you do that, actually,

so when you were playing chords,

you have to play the

whole A chord type of thing.

Okay, which is multiple notes.

Yeah, typically at least two.

Yeah, yeah.

Three, but it could be.

Now I understand.

Okay, thank you for explaining that.

Yeah, no problem.

Thanks for asking.

Because I was picturing it

in my head and I've seen sheet music,

but then when you started talking about

what they were presenting to you,

I wasn't completely understanding.

That must have opened

up your worlds though,

because from what I

understand about chords,

everyone says learn the chords.

Because then you can

just jump in and play.

And if you say within a chord,

your sound is within the right range.

So that had to have

opened up the whole,

now you're like fluid,

you could probably jam,

you could sit in and

might write on that.

That was the start of that.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

So getting that foundation,

even just to play basic praise and

worship music on Fridays,

that really, like you said,

opened my eye to open

my world to, okay, wow,

this is what it's like

to play with other people.

You have to listen so much more.

And there's a lot of merit and nuance

to solo performance,

but I personally have way more fun

playing with other people

than just playing solo.

Did you ever get into the

praise and worship band?

I did, yeah, I did.

And I had the lady who led it,

there was another girl

that was an Allstate singer.

She was an incredible

singer, had a beautiful voice,

and she had just

started learning piano.

She was very tight with

the lady who led the band.

So I think she gave her the test

answers ahead of time,

like, "Yo, play this."

And so I came in and I

had never played the chords,

but as I mentioned to you guys, I

learned, Dave helped me,

and I was able to make it and play,

but what this lady did,

the lady who led the band,

she actually says, "Okay, well,

Gullory, here's what we're gonna do.

This girl is gonna play the piano and

you're gonna sing."

And I'm like, "You gotta be kidding me.

She's an Allstate singer.

I never sang in my life.

I'm terrified to sing."

And in retrospect, and

this is the first time

I've really looked at

it back from this lens,

but now I have a lot of

confidence in my singing,

but that first time that I sang up,

and it was just at a

practice, but I was shaking.

That had even been terrifying.

Oh my gosh.

Well, you know, Kaya, she sang in a,

what was like a kids

rock band type of thing?

Yeah, she did.

And she would sing,

and she was excellent,

phenomenal singer really.

She would get nervous

sometimes and be like almost ready

to throw up before she would get on.

Yeah, I think before every time,

but to just be randomly asked to sing,

like I guess it was good.

Almost seems unfair.

But it's good she just

like threw you on the spot

cause you had no time

to be nervous almost.

It was just in that moment and then you

had to just go for it.

I was pissed, but I was pissed that I

wasn't playing piano

cause that's really

what I wanted to do, but.

So did you sing more

than that one time?

Like were you singing for?

And then singing and

then in front of the,

not the crew I guess

would be the other kids.

She's sitting there playing piano,

which is what you want to do,

but you're having to sing like just in

front of a mic solo.

Yeah.

Type of thing.

I would have thought she would have

wanted to also sing

because she was this

like celebrated singer.

She was so good.

Yeah.

She was way better than I was, but.

Did you ever get a

chance to play piano?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

We would swap off on songs,

but she still got probably 60% of it.

Yeah, yeah.

So you did that all the way through

till you graduated?

At least through middle school.

Yeah, middle school.

Okay, I thought this was high school.

No, no, no, this was

through middle school.

This through middle school.

And then in high school, you

basically after ninth grade

stopped in school, but

then outside of school,

did you continue to do anything?

So I met a friend playing football.

His name is Bobby and

Bobby is still to this day

one of my best friends,

but he had an older, he had a cousin

that was on American Idol.

And so we struck up our conversation

initially from football

after knowing him for a couple months,

he tells me this and I'm like,

dude, you know what that means, right?

You can sing.

He's like, no.

I was like,

absolutely you have to sing.

I play the piano, it's perfect.

We'll be a band.

And so if we used to get

together and I would play

and I coached him on, I

think this sounds good.

You should do it this way.

His cousin was a big

influence on both of us.

Actually cousin, you find

them Apple music, Spotify.

It's john.k.

John.k.

John.k.

And he was on American Idol.

Okay, and now he's on

Spotify with his own music.

Yeah, he's a professional musician.

He does it.

That's awesome.

That's what he does, but

he was a huge influence.

John.k.

Check him out.

It's cool.

It's poppier stuff than

what I normally listen to now,

but his or his first album back when it

was just Johnny Keyser,

this is his name.

That album had a huge influence on us.

And then my buddy Bobby,

he loved Gavin DeGraw too.

So that was our shit.

And I would sit there

and I'd play the piano

and I'd be like, "Yo Bobby, sing like

this, sing like this."

Cause I was still getting

confidence in my own voice.

And Bobby did have a great voice.

So we continued to play all the way

through high school.

Even now sometimes we still play.

Do you really?

Yeah, yeah.

So would you guys get

together after school

or on the weekends?

After school.

After school, weekends, all the time.

We were playing music.

He was always playing music.

Is this Bobby that played baseball?

No.

And big fishermen?

No, no, no.

Okay. Different guy.

Different Bobby.

Yeah, okay.

There's so many of them out there.

Okay.

Yeah, true.

So that was really your first band.

Yeah. If you don't count the many

praise and worship band,

yeah, it was just me and him.

It was a little duo.

Would you ever perform?

We would occasionally.

So as we got later in high school,

sometimes we'd be at

restaurants or whatever

and our parents together

and my dad would be like,

you gotta let my kid own the piano.

So he was, and again, to my parents,

always huge supporters of music from

the very beginning.

And Bobby's parents too,

they had a piano at

their place and we would go

and his mom, so funny.

We played all kinds of stuff,

but this was back when

that song, "Thrift Shop"

was popular.

Yeah, yeah. That's "Malcolmore," right?

Yeah, "Malcolmore."

We talked about the cringe moments,

like thinking about now.

Did you get a big fur coat?

I didn't, but we came

up with our own piano,

like vocal rendition.

We would like swap

off the vocals, like,

but shit, it was 99 cents.

So, and his mom, she'd be

like, "Play "Thrift Shop."

"Play "Thrift Shop."

"Play "Thrift Shop."

Until she was blue in the

face, we'd be like, no, no.

And then, yeah, we always went.

That's awesome. I love that.

I love that. Oh my gosh.

Well, now if you guys were out there,

you'd be TikTok stars,

because people would film you out and

about at restaurants

and probably be all over social media.

So now, real quick, going

back to your parents' support

of your music, are either

one of them musically inclined

or have it in their background?

No, but in the background, yes.

So my grandpa on my mom's

side is one of four children.

They grew up in rural North Carolina,

and the grandpa is one of 13,

and they all played a lot of music,

and the grandpa in particular said,

all right, I'm gonna take my boys

and we're gonna have a

family bluegrass band.

Awesome. That was sweet.

So none of them ever

really got formal lessons,

you know, to my knowledge,

but my grandpa played the

mandolin in a bluegrass band.

Amazing. And my uncle Steve,

yeah, I saw that when I walked in.

My uncle Steve is actually

a really good banjo player.

He plays with a

couple of different bands.

They've got some music online too.

That's awesome.

What's the name of

your uncle Steve's fan?

If he hears this, he'll be like,

how do you not know my

name, my band, the color?

Tell us later, we'll slide it in.

We'll put it in the description.

Okay, cool. Yeah, and the connection.

Now what about your grandfather?

Did he have any

music out there that's--

No. Okay.

So yes, not officially though.

They would play these

barn weddings and things.

I saw a clip from

the 90s where they got,

they were the Dunn Mountain Boys.

It was the name of the

bluegrass band that they had.

Yeah. And they went around

to North Carolina.

They played

different bluegrass festivals

and things like that,

but the only videos that

I've seen are like home,

like shaky VHS, like videos of them.

What we would have been

doing back in the day.

Are you into bluegrass at all?

I do like bluegrass, yeah.

I wouldn't say that that's like top of

my list, but it wouldn't--

It's in your blend.

The improvisational component.

I love anything improvisational,

and I love the harmonies too.

So I think those things really--

We're actually going

to see Billy Strings

up in St. Augustine in a couple weeks.

When you brought up

bluegrass, I was gonna say,

and I know you like jam music.

I can see all of

your tapes of the dead.

I've gotten super into Billy Strings.

So into Billy Strings.

Not just Billy

himself, but the violinist,

the fiddler, the banjo, the standup

bass, the mandolin.

These guys are so tight, yeah.

Yeah, he loves.

So that's why I knew you would perk up

when he was talking

about the bluegrass.

So that's really cool.

And that St. Augustine

theater is amazing too.

I went up there in end of October.

And I was somewhere

in this goose shirt.

Oh, you saw goose?

Yeah, I've seen him a handful of times,

probably six, seven times.

But so we saw him in Miami,

they played like a Wednesday.

And then Friday,

Saturday, they played up

at that St. Augustine theater.

And that was my first

time going up there,

but it is awesome.

They've really got it down.

We haven't been there yet.

We're looking forward to it.

It's our first time.

We're so excited.

I think we're in the last row

because the tickets sold out,

but hopefully there's not a bad seat.

People up there, that's

pretty kind of jam heavy.

People love it.

Yeah.

Tickets to that

amphitheater sell out so fast.

It's not huge.

That's part of what makes it so nice.

Yeah, I know.

We're looking forward to it.

We're trying to buy tickets

and you had to buy a three day pass.

Yeah.

Really?

So we're going out for

three days, twist our arm.

Yeah, yeah.

I know we're not too.

Now, what did your mom do?

Was she a stay at home mom or?

Yeah, my mom.

So she raised me and she raised Sydney.

And then she worked

alongside my dad for a while.

She would help him with

various things for the business.

And what does your dad do?

My dad's an entrepreneur.

So he's had a number

of different ventures,

but all travel oriented.

Oh nice.

And so recently he's

got one that's kind of

in a different field now,

but he sold cruises on

the internet actually.

Oh, okay, cool.

His company was one of

the first to sell cruises

on the internet.

And he's actually in the

cruise line hall of fame.

No way.

No way.

That is so cool.

That is so cool.

That's cool.

Okay, so to go back to high school,

so you're playing football.

You're in your first unofficial band

with your friend Bobby.

And then you graduate.

Did you go to college from there

or did you decide just

to delve right into music?

No, I went to FSU.

Okay.

Yeah, so I went to FSU

and went up to

Tallahassee summer of 2014.

Was that your first choice?

No, and actually so this is

some maybe important context

that I'll slide into.

So I mentioned I was

never the best book student.

I had one biology teacher

who used to get mad at me.

She said, I just learned biosmosis

because I would go and

I would just sit there

and I'd crack jokes.

And sometimes I'd even not off in

class, like whatever.

I just, I was sharp and I

would just soak it all in.

And, but I was really

prominent in the extracurriculars.

So I was in a club called Decca.

Yeah, and actually I

was one of the presidents.

Me and my friend Bobby,

we were so tight him and I

that instead of one of us

running for president and

one of us running for VP,

we were like, let's

run as co-presidents.

Oh, I love that.

That's awesome.

And then senior year

I was Mr. Boca High.

Oh really?

Yeah.

Wait, okay, so wait.

Now we switched schools.

You went to Boca High?

Just Boca Christian for middle school

and then elementary.

And then I went to Boca High.

Okay, so you went from a private school

into a public school

for ninth grade then.

Yeah, and it was one of the best things

that could happen.

So was there, how was

that though in ninth grade?

How was that transition?

Was it hard for you to acclimate in

with the public school kids

or was it challenging at all

coming from a smaller school?

I don't think so.

Not for me because I had

a good group of friends

from Boca Christian.

So some of my best

friends, Zach, Austin and Pedro

all made that same switch.

Our parents were like

kind of united on that front.

There was a stigma

about leaving Boca Christian

because they had the high school too

and you would kind of get like--

That's small though.

Like blacklisted or

people, they thought about it.

Oh, well, you're not

gonna go to the high school

and you can't do this or that.

So my parents were like, all right,

we're gonna all do it

together with all of our kids.

So we made that transition together

and already having kind of

like a pre-built in group

of friends to make the move with.

That's smart.

Yeah, a small squad

you could go in with

so you could hang out

at lunch or whatever.

Right, and then I meet my friend Bobby.

That was during the summer,

like two days for football.

Like it's freshman year

hadn't even started yet.

And I'm already meeting people

that I'm becoming

really good friends with.

So you're glad that you went

to such a large high school.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think I'm a social person

and like there's benefits.

You go into a small

school, like don't get me wrong.

Oh, you wanna be in the band.

Oh, you wanna do this.

Like you have a shot to do everything.

But having to compete to do the things

that I wanted to do,

especially like be the

president of the club

or be Mr. Boca high, like I had to run

against other people

doing interviews with everyone,

including the principal.

There's a lot of stuff that

I did that helped prepare me

I think for later in life

and give me a lot of confidence too.

Yeah, for sure.

And I think Boca,

especially academically,

what you can get from it.

Yeah, at the time it was

number 22 public school

in the nation when I was there.

And with all the ACE and the

AP and it still offers that.

So, okay, so then

you graduate Boca high

but you were saying you

were learning through osmosis.

Yeah, so my first pick was to go to

University of Florida

and my other FSU people,

like you guys are gonna

hate hearing that, I'm sure.

Maybe some of you guys

know that, maybe not.

I had a lot of, like my

other friends that I mentioned,

they had older siblings that went there

and I just, I went up to visit

and I had other people

that I was friends with

that were older that I went and visited

and I saw the games.

I saw Jamis Winston

absolutely scorched them one time

for a UF FSU game

through like, I remember--

It was awesome.

A huge bomb, yeah, a huge

bomb to Kelvin Benjamin.

I'll never forget

being there and being like,

ah, shit, we're getting smoked

but this Jamis guy is awesome.

So, but then yeah, so I

ended up, I didn't get in.

FSU was next school on my list.

And so I applied to UNC

but I didn't get in there.

I didn't really wanna go to Miami.

So FSU was.

Now when you, did you

tour the schools before?

Yeah, both of them.

Now when you walked onto each campus,

did you feel you

belonged to one over the other?

They're very different campuses.

I didn't feel like a

different sense of belonging though.

Okay, so you would have

been fine with either one.

I definitely knew more people at UF

and that's why I wanted to go there.

And I can say subjectively,

maybe it would have

been better or worse

in the outcome of my

life, but here I am.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I think it's tough to be like,

oh, it could have gone this way, it

could have gone this way

but I'm happy with the

fact that I went to FSU.

It opened up in a weird roundabout way

a lot of other

opportunities for me to learn and grow

and develop myself that I'm grateful of

and I'm sure that I

wouldn't have gotten at UF.

It was probably more of a challenge.

It was a huge challenge.

Socially at least, right?

Cause you're having to make

new friends and all of that.

Whereas you would have more of a

comfort group maybe at UF.

Yeah, definitely.

It put me in position,

so I think going to college in general

and my parents, again, I've mentioned

how supportive they are

and how amazing they are,

but with that comes a

degree of shelteredness

and structure that

isn't entirely your own.

And then so my,

some people I guess are ready for that.

I was not at all.

So when I got to FSU and I'm like,

well, they're not the

best academic school,

but what are they really good at?

They're really good at partying and

winning football games.

So I lacked for sure

that self-governance

and I dove into maybe

things that in retrospect

I shouldn't have been

spending all my time doing.

Right, right.

But like I said, get that

out of your system early

and it poses challenges.

I didn't know what I wanted to study

and I guess some advice if I could give

to any younger people out

there that are listening

is like, it doesn't matter

what school you're going to,

but like set your

intention before you go.

My intention was non-existent.

I was like, all right, I'm going now.

Like let's see what happens.

And I think if I had

had a plan, if I had,

and I get it's so

hard for kids to be like,

well, what do you want

to do with your life?

I mean, shit, I'm

still figuring it out.

Yeah, yeah. Be close to.

Yeah.

That's why we're doing a podcast.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I think everyone can

relate to that to some degree.

But yeah, set an

intention and I didn't have one

and I studied general business

and then I studied marketing

and then I studied

music for a semester,

like music production

and commercial music.

And then actually at one point

I even got academically dismissed

because I wasn't, yeah,

no, it was a tough situation.

Was that like in the

early freshmen sophomore?

No, that was senior year.

So you were really enjoying yourself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you join a frat?

But I think, well--

I wasn't a fraternity, yeah.

But I think what you're describing too

is part of the college experience.

Because you came out on the

other side, you're doing well.

And part of college is that, right?

Not everybody says the

same. Oh, for sure, for sure.

They're not on the same path, right?

Some kids go into school

and they're out in

two years with a degree.

Others go in and it's

just a different path.

But it sure works out. It sure was.

And that's when I said,

FSU in the end gave me

different experiences

that I would have never got from the

University of Florida.

So I get academically dismissed, I go

to TCC for a semester,

I reapply to FSU, they have

a program like TCC to FSU.

I don't get

reaccepted, I'm freaking out.

I'm like, all right,

shit, what do I do?

Oh my gosh, this is

happening senior year?

Yeah, this is actually, I'm a little

bit even after that now.

And so now I move back home.

Okay. And I'm like, all right,

well, let me apply

to FAU, apply to FAU.

I don't get in.

I'm like, I'm gonna go

to PBSC, I'm freaking out.

Yeah.

And then actually I was

scrolling through LinkedIn.

Why, I don't know, like talking about

all these different

social media platforms

and I never do this.

And I see this article

about this lady from FSU, Jill,

and she's pioneering an

innovative new program

where she's basically

cold calling students

who got 80% of their way to the degree

and coming up with ways

that they can still graduate from FSU.

That's amazing. Wow.

And I'm like, holy shit.

Yeah. This is me.

So I send her an email.

Hey, this is my story.

She goes, let's get on a call.

And she, talk about people that I have,

I owe huge things, I don't

even know she remembers me.

But I owe Jill so much

thanks because she went

and she talked to the degree posting,

what do they call it?

But anyways, from

TCC and they found out

that my degree there

just posted incorrectly

and that's why FSU rejected me.

And that's why FAU

rejected me and she got it fixed,

she got me readmitted,

hooked me up with an advisor,

got me on a fully

remote online program.

Wow.

And I really helped put all

the pieces together for me.

My buddy Bobby, his dad, I

was working for him actually

at this time, so thank

you to their family also

for giving me a job

while I navigated all this.

That's amazing.

Yeah. That's amazing.

Was that during COVID as well?

Yeah, I've ended up, my graduation date

was December of 2021.

Okay. Okay.

And you got to walk

and everything up at FSU.

I had the opportunity

to walk, but I didn't.

But that's amazing that that happened.

I mean, that just blows my mind

because I can't imagine the

stress you were going through

senior year having that happen.

That's insane alone.

And then to reapply and to be denied,

not just from FSU, but then from FAU.

Yeah.

I'm glad that you stayed on that.

And you said it was just you randomly

were scrolling LinkedIn

but the fact that you still were like,

"I'm gonna email her, I'm gonna see

what comes of this."

Because to get that far

and then to not be able to

finish it would have just,

something you would

have regretted in general.

Oh, and that was one of the big things

that was weighing on me.

I see all my other

friends, they have their degrees.

One of my friends is

working from Microsoft

and killing it and I'm like,

holy shit, I'm so far behind him.

My dad in particular,

who's very strong willed,

he's business minded, successful at

everything he does.

I know how much it was eating at him.

So part of me is like, I

have to do this for myself,

but also I have to do this for him.

I have to close the chapter.

And he always told me, he's like,

"Look, a degree, that's what it's for

at the end of the day

to prove that you can

see something through."

And I definitely had my share of

obstacles and hurdles

to overcome in that process.

But man, did it feel

good when I finally got it.

I bet. That was cool.

What was your degree in?

It was

Interdisciplinary Social Sciences

with the concentration in

Economics and Geography.

Nice, I love it, I love it.

You sure you weren't

on the football team?

Yeah, I know.

So that 2021 was a big year for you

because you were finishing that degree.

You graduated December, 2021.

So was there anything

else going on that year

that any big changes?

Yeah, so 2021 just in general,

so at the time when I moved back,

I was working for my

buddy Bobby's dad's company

and I was living in a

house with two of my buddies,

Zach and then Bobby.

And so it was during the COVID era,

so we're all working

together from home.

You guys ever seen

that show Workaholics?

No. Okay.

Basically a bunch of

friends who work together.

That's an office setting,

but it was that in our house.

What were you doing?

I was working for

Bobby's dad's company,

which was an investment bank.

And I was not family,

but I was basically an Epidism hire.

Yeah, those are the best kind.

Yeah. Good action, so good.

Yeah, so no, it was cool.

It was a good opportunity.

Like I said, I'm grateful for them.

I don't think it was a good fit for me

at the end of the day.

And my direct boss,

I wasn't getting a lot

of mentorship or support

or guidance from, but it was a job.

And they paid me probably better than I

should have been paid

and it allowed me to

finish up everything.

But yeah, so as I'm

going through this time,

this volatile transition period,

leaving FSU, trying to figure out

how I'm gonna finish my degree,

I didn't have a lot of confidence.

I had put on a bunch of

weight in the process.

And I was kind of

really just like in a rut.

And I know kind of from

some of the other podcasts

I listen to, I know you're

more of a philosophical guy.

So one that I personally subscribe to

is peaks and valleys.

And the way that it works is this,

it's like life is gonna be

a series of ups and downs.

For sure.

But what does that mean?

It means when you're in a valley,

you can always keep your head up

because you know there's a peak coming.

But when you are on a peak,

when you feel like

things are going well,

don't be afraid to stop for a second

and actually just

appreciate how great it really is.

That is so true.

So true.

Yeah, thanks.

In that moment, I was

definitely in a valley.

And I even had this

thought in my head though.

So I knew it was gonna be all right.

But another one of my best friends,

a couple of my best friends,

they all rallied around

me to basically support me

and help me out.

Sal, he does amazing things with

meditation and breath work.

And he's actually in Peru

right now, teaching clouds.

He taught a class on meditation too.

There's like 250 people

down there on the beach.

Wow.

He's made it in his own company.

What's the name of his company?

It's Liberti, Breathwork.

Liberti?

Yeah, Liberti.

L-I-B-E-R-T-I.

He comes back to

Boca every now and then.

He does classes.

He does this thing called

holotrophic breath work,

which if you've never

done, you should try.

But anyways, he was

really like the voice

that I could talk to about all of this.

How did you get connected with him?

Playing football at Boca High.

Okay.

And he moved into Boca High junior year

and we played together

and we had class together.

And my core group of friends really

brought him in too.

And my buddy Zach dated his sister.

Okay, well I mean.

And his sister was

friends with my sister.

So it's all kind of like,

it's all kind of connected.

And then my other friend, Austin,

another smart guy, entrepreneur,

had a fitness company that

he started called Boca Body.

And so, I'm talking to

Sal, getting the mental piece,

figured out, talking

to Austin, I'm like,

yo, Austin, man, I really

need some help with this.

So he comes up with,

I think I was like

their second client maybe,

but he puts together a whole plan,

in 90 day transformation.

And then there's another

dude he worked with named Sean,

who is just a fantastic trainer.

And they work with me and got me,

I was at like, almost

220 pounds and I cut down,

cut 45 pounds off.

Wow, that's cool. Wow.

Got my confidence back, got my degree.

That's amazing.

Everything really kind of

started to fall into place.

Yeah, it's hard to get up on a peak.

You ended on a peak.

I started to.

Yeah, yeah.

So Boca Body, is it like

CrossFit, the concept like that?

No, it was more just like,

he had me lifting weights

and there was not so much cardio.

But the whole idea was that it's kind

of holistic, right?

It's not just the workout component.

They also got me on a

diet, on a meal plan.

I would have weekly

check-ins with him or with Sean.

And I was working out with Sean too.

And they have this app,

they still have an app

and it's got all these workouts on it.

So I mean, I owe him-

It's like Mind and Body.

Yes, very similar.

Actually, I think they

probably work on that

with like a rebrand, like white label

it to make it their own.

Yeah, yeah.

That's amazing, that's life changing.

It sure was.

Because have you

continued to take the things

you transformed during

2021 with you up to this day?

Peaks and valleys.

(laughing)

I still make the Boca

Body smoothie recipe

a couple of times a week.

There you go.

So there you go.

I think just that shift.

And because that's how I was back when

I was in high school.

I was playing football.

I wasn't like ever, I

wasn't like in great shape,

but I wasn't in bad

shape and I was clear minded

and I was confident and I was social

and I was outgoing.

And I just felt like a

piece of me had been robbed

by kind of the struggles and the

adversity I went through

finishing my college experience.

But to see all of

that kind of come through

and pull through with help from Jill

that I randomly found on LinkedIn

and help from some of my best friends

and support from my parents and my mom.

I haven't talked about my

mom at all yet, but she was,

no, I can't say enough about her.

She's just the most

amazing person in the world.

I'm sure she's supported you

through every step of everything.

I think, and

actually I was gonna ask you

cause it feels so apparent

based on what you've said

so far about your

parents, you're in this valley.

They had to have been there

for you the whole time, right?

My dad was pissed.

We're supposed to be, that's our job.

Rightfully so, but my mom

was a cheerleader for me

throughout the whole thing.

And I'm sure she got some

flack from my dad even at times.

Like, how can you

support him through this?

He's fucking around so

much, but it is what it is.

And my dad and I

were on great terms now,

we've never been better.

My mom, same thing, I try

and take her out and treat her

and do things just to let

her know how much I care

and how appreciative I am.

But yeah, if it wasn't for them,

and if it wasn't for my friends,

and it wasn't for this amazing support

network that I had,

I mean, who knows how

things could have turned out.

I'm strong willed, I'm

confident, I'm determined,

but to anyone that might be

struggling with something,

I know there's kids out there that are

in the same position

that I was in, struggled in college,

don't know what

they're gonna do, get help,

and just get it from your friends

or from the people that

care the most about you.

Yes.

Did you ask for help or

did they just kind of know it

and kind of like a symbiotic thing?

I was never like, guys, I need help,

but with best friends, you talk to them

and you tell them the

things you're going through,

the things you're struggling with.

And so yeah, they

helped me resolve that

and see through to the other side.

That's amazing.

And as far as moms,

I mean, we typically,

no matter what, have our kids' backs,

even if the dad is like,

come on, that's our job.

That's 100% our job.

And it's just

wonderful that your parents,

because they were

always so supportive of you,

but even when it got

really maybe dark or a little,

they were still 100%.

Even if your dad was frustrated, he was

still there for you.

And I'm sure your sister,

in addition to your friends.

So you have this pivotal moment

and what then you take

on, you head into 2022.

Do you continue to work for

Bobby's dad during that time?

Yeah, so I did until March of 2022.

So the nature of the

business was kind of like,

we'd work on big

deals for a couple months

and we would get

commission checks to come through.

So kind of like, it was like, we're

working on a big deal.

So I worked with it to

see through the end of it.

And then after that,

yeah, that's all good.

And then after that, I decided, okay,

I wanna make a change.

I'm not super inspired

working in this role.

I'm not being challenged

the way that I'd like to be.

And I know that something

has to go a little different

in order for me to keep developing

myself and growing.

Cause I'm on this path

of growth and development.

So I need that to continue.

So I actually took

about a three month break

just from working, kind

of like a lot of people

would do like a gap year or something

after they graduate.

Well, I never really

had the chance to do that.

So I did a couple of things.

I was dating a girl at the time

and her family was from

up North in Massachusetts.

So I went up and I visited them,

went out to Martha's Vineyard

and had a family reunion

with them, which was cool.

We went on a cruise.

I played a lot of music.

I think that May of 22, we played

something like six shows

which was a lot for us.

Everyone in the band is working.

Oh, wait, we skipped ahead.

So where did the band?

So the band, when is the band formed?

The band, so I didn't form the band.

I would have met

them in the end of 2021.

And this is a funny story.

So the way that I met them was that

I was at a company Christmas party

in December of 21.

And I work with some other guys my age,

Bobby and other friends.

And we were, it was like somewhere on

the beach in Delray.

We had like a nice Christmas party.

We're all wearing suits

and we decided afterwards

to go, let's go out to the Avenue.

Let's go out.

And we bopped around to a

couple of different places

and ultimately ended up at a

bar called Third and Third,

which I don't know if you

guys are or were familiar.

I think we saw you there.

Yes, we did. Back in the day.

That's right. We did.

Because I remember you were in the back

when we played "Shake Down Street."

Yeah, yeah. You were bobbing your head.

Yeah, yeah.

But so I had a

similar experience there.

I'm in the back and we're drinking

and all of a sudden

I'm looking up there

and I see these guys.

And it was my musical,

I have like three

stories that I could tell.

There's the musical development story,

there's the personal

story, which we've been on.

And then there's like

the career trajectory one.

Kind of left some of

the music stuff out.

But just to give a quick

kind of catch up to speed,

at this point I'm playing

with a group of like 55,

60 year old dudes

based out of Coral Springs

called the Ruminators.

I've heard of them.

Maybe. I have.

No, I have, I've heard of them.

Why would I, I feel like one of my

friends' husbands--

I feel like I've heard of them too.

And I looked them

up. Mostly dead music.

Yes. Yeah.

One of my friends'

husbands plays in that band.

Do you know-- Yeah, I have to think--

Scott, Jeff, Rich.

We're not like, we're not close, close.

It'll come to me as

we're talking, but yes.

I looked them up because of your,

you know what she told us.

And I saw these old guys,

some like I don't have the right band.

Yeah, no, you have the right band.

Yeah, no, no, I know who

that, so you played with them?

So we, there's a website

out there called Bandmix

and Bandmix is basically

like match.com for musicians.

I'm like, I'm a keyboard

player seeking the band

that plays like jam music.

These are my influences.

And then Scott is over

there on the other side

and he's like, I am a band that plays

Most of the Grateful Dead,

looking for a keyboard player.

And so he called me, we had a big chat.

He's actually a big fan of Goose too.

So I remember having

the conversation with him

that day on the phone and I

was like, all right, yeah,

screw it, I'll take my

gear and I'll go out there.

And they practice in Jeff's garage,

like you guys have a

really nice studio here.

He's got it figured out.

He's got a really nice in his garage.

But so I'm playing dead

music with these guys.

I'm a big head already at this point,

which we can get back to.

Yeah, yeah.

And what year would this, so is this?

This was like late 2020, earlier 2021.

So when you moved back?

I moved back in 2018.

So I've been back.

Remember he didn't go up

for the graduation walk.

He was remote at that point.

I did it online.

So you were here.

Correct.

This is, did you do any music in FSU?

Yes, yes.

So I had a band up there

called the Stone Keys Band,

which is, I put that on the list too.

That was basically a

band that combined people

from different

fraternities and sorority.

We had a girl, too, she

was in one of the sororities.

And thank God we had her

because she got us booked

at sorority events and she would always

bring all her friends

out, which was great.

And actually one of

the guys in the band,

a drummer, his name is Angelo.

He's out in Nashville doing music now.

Wow, that's cool.

My other buddy, Sean,

he was one of our guitar players.

Now he's out and he

wasn't awesome for a while.

I think he's in Seattle

now and they have a band.

I'll look that up if we

could plug the name of that band.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anybody you have.

It's Balcony Bridge.

Balcony Bridge.

Balcony Bridge based out of Seattle.

They're awesome too.

Another friend, Josh, one

of the best guitar players

I've played with, just

the touch the guy has

and the ear for music is spectacular.

Anyways, so yeah, I played with them.

Was that your next

band after you and Bobby

had your little thing?

Well, and Bobby.

Bobby was our singer.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it went from you

and Bobby in those years.

Yeah, so we got up to

FSU and we were like,

"All right, time to start a real band."

So that was your first

quote unquote real band.

Yes.

Was the Stone Keys.

Yes.

Okay.

And then I have to

also mention Mitchell,

who's one of my best friends,

who's co-worker,

fraternity brother, roommate,

now bandmates and

the current co-worker.

We were still very, and

he's in the current band

that we play in too,

but he was the bass player

too for a stent in the Stone Keys band.

So we had a nice-

And that was from

different fraternities

and then the sorority girl?

Yeah, and so that was

great because we could get

people from all over.

It wasn't like we were

only playing for ourselves.

That is so cool.

So you did that, and

then when you left Halle,

was that the end of Stone Keys for you?

We disbanded the Stone Keys band

because everyone kind of

went their different ways.

But I still got a logo.

I have the logo and I

think I have the website.

So maybe it'll make a

resurgence at some point.

And then was your

next band the Ruminators?

No, through bandmates I

got connected with a group.

They were calling

themselves The Anonymous,

and they were basically,

they related to church.

They were praising

worship band for a church

that was creating a

secular band to go play bars.

Okay, wow.

And that was like my first,

oh, I'm back here in South Florida.

And actually, so

there's two other moments

that I'd like to share.

One is actually, I put it on the list,

the piano recital when I was younger.

And I don't know, I

must've been middle school,

early middle school.

And Dave Kirk had had me practicing

preparing Pachelbel's Canon.

You know,

(humming)

So there's piano recital, whatever, for

"Book of Christian."

And I've been

practicing, but I was like,

not really practicing like I should.

And long story short,

the recital day comes

and I get up there and it's probably

300 people, whatever.

It's a lot of people.

There's like the, yes.

The auditorium's old.

It's a lot of people.

There's a lot of people, I guess.

And so I'm playing and

about halfway through,

I completely lose my

place in the music.

I completely lose my place.

(imitating music) But I didn't stop.

I just, I was like, I just can't stop

because that's gonna be

the worst thing I could do.

So I finally get my way

back and I finish the song

and it's like one of those like,

like slow, awkward, like, oh man,

should we clap for him kind of thing?

So, and I walk off and

as I'm getting off stage,

this one dad, not my

dad, a dad that was there,

runs up, he's like, way to finish son.

And I'm like, what a dick.

Oh my gosh, was he doing it to be mean?

No, no, I think he was

trying to be supportive.

He was really trying to encourage me.

But I was like, that's

not what I wanna hear.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the worst thing

about it was Dave Kirk

had come that night and

he was there and I sat down

and you know, so you did great,

but I know that I didn't do great.

So my dad, he has a

saying, perfect practice

and he prevents piss poor performance.

I like that.

Was a perfect practice, seven P's,

however many P's are on.

Yeah, I like that.

So after that, that

really struck me like,

all right, I'm not going

into anything unprepared.

And even like, Bobby,

just two weekends ago,

we celebrated his

birthday, he's on the 15th.

And we do a big brunch,

we've been doing a brunch

for like, you know,

the past couple of years.

And now I like, I

give a speech every year

and I'll come with like, you know,

charts and like exhibits

and like, I write my notes

out and my friends are like,

oh, go there with the pageantry, always

with the pageantry.

But I think I got that from that.

Like even if it's something small,

like if it's a work presentation,

if it doesn't matter what it is,

I'm gonna be prepared,

I'm gonna be rehearsed.

Right, right, right.

So that was one piece and then--

That was a pivotal moment that you took

and then applied what

your dad had taught you.

You kind of learned that lesson early.

I had to learn it myself though.

And you were nine?

No, I was a little older.

I was probably like, I don't know,

whatever six grade.

So it was like 11, 10, 11, 11.

You know, it would have

taken a moment like that

for you to truly

understand your dad's motto

to be able to apply it.

And then it's, it's

something came from me.

And then so now I'm back, like, so fast

forward a little bit.

I get back from

Tallahassee, I'm still here,

I'm figuring all my shit out.

And I'm like, man,

you know what's missing?

Like, you know, for my life right now

is, you know, music.

You know, I haven't

really played with anyone.

And I was going to

concerts and actually

first jam concert I

ever went to aside from,

and we'll get back to some shore

when I saw "Dead in Company,"

which was really my

introduction to jam music,

was Humphries McGee at

the Fillmore in Miami.

I didn't even know who they were.

They're jam.

They're good. They're very good.

They're sweet.

But during a set break, I'm walking

around the Fillmore

and there's a, there

was an upright piano

and I'm just like, oh, you know what,

let me fuck around on it a little.

And this guy comes up to me,

he's like, yo, I have a band

and we really need a keyboard player

or a keyboard player just left.

Like, would you want to audition?

And I'm like, all right, yeah, why not?

So they're based out of

Boca too, it worked out great.

Yeah, cool.

So, but it was like Ska Rege,

I never played anything like that.

That was kind of

outside of my wheelhouse,

but I was like, all right, yeah,

whatever, screw it,

I'll go and I'll see.

Wow.

And I show up to this rehearsal

and I absolutely bombed, just horrible.

And like everyone, they were good.

It wasn't really my style of music,

but they had horns, horn

section, like they were like--

A lot going on.

Yeah, they were rocking.

And afterwards the guy,

he's kind of like, all right,

well, like, you know, if

they want you to come back,

I'll call you.

And I was like, I knew, I

was like, I tanked that shit.

So then that was the

other moment where I was like,

you know what, I'm better than that.

I need to step up my game.

So I went and I bought

myself a new keyboard.

I started really

practicing, really rehearsing,

learning a ton of dead tunes, which

you've got all these

chords, which helps

you be a better musician,

focusing on improvising.

Then I started playing with

these guys, The Anonymous.

Okay.

And I found them through Bandmix too.

And they were good.

They were really, really good.

They were very much just starting out.

And some of the guys were kind of,

there were some guys who were very

talented in the band.

There were some guys

that were much more like

entry level musicians that

had kind of like gotten their,

anyways, we'd go to the

rehearsals and I'd be like ready

to play.

And the guy's like, oh

wait, like, you know,

let me look up the chords again.

And I was just, I felt

like it wasn't organized.

So that's why I started

playing with the ruminators.

Okay.

And I started playing

with the ruminators.

Now we're back up to speed.

Now I'm at third and third.

Okay.

And I love the music,

but, and these guys,

you know, they're up

there in age a little bit.

So they're not like

jumping around and, you know,

Yes.

They would play out like, you know,

once a quarter, once every six months.

And I see these young guys my age

wearing dead shirts,

playing shakedown street.

And I'm over there in

the back and I'm like,

I got to play with these guys.

They don't have a keyboard player.

They need a keyboard player.

And I'll never forget too,

they played comfortably

numb that the guitar player

is doing that whole

crazy solo at the end.

And I'm like, these guys are shit.

So I go up there and I go to the bar.

I'm like, I need, I had a few.

And I'm like, I need like

receipt paper and a pen.

Yeah.

I write down my name,

my number, you know,

I slip it in the tip jar with some

money and I'm like,

call me.

I'm like, I'll fill the space.

Like they joke now.

Yeah.

Like you said you were

going to fill the space

like 30 times.

(laughing) And, and, and.

That's funny.

Long story short, they

ended up giving me a call.

They called you.

And I went and auditioned with them.

And we knew right away, like, yo,

this is going to be a good fit.

Yeah.

But that was a lot of it

because of your commitment

from what you said, I

need to restructure.

I need to commit again

and you put the work in.

And then that, then when

you went to try audition

for that band, it

was like fit right in.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

It was perfect right from the start.

Because of your hard work.

You can't have a dead

band without a keyboardist.

No.

No, no.

And we're not, we're

not totally dead band,

but we do play some dead songs.

Yeah.

But help on the way, Franklin's Tower,

Shake Down.

If it was up to me, we'd play more.

Yeah.

But, yeah, there's,

it's not contention,

but I love the dead maybe too much.

Well, no, I mean, there's

so many songs you could pick,

dead songs, that they could just,

it could be a whole

show of just dead songs.

Yeah, absolutely.

You could do multiple

nights of just dead songs.

100%.

100%.

Yeah, that's what they did.

Yeah.

When did you first hear the dead?

So it was through

channel 23, Sirius XM.

Oh, the Grateful Dead channel.

Yeah, so I always knew it was there

because it was right below 24, 25, 26.

It was like classic

vinyl, classic rewind.

And I never really gave it its due.

And at this point I

was already, you know,

I like Zeppelin, I like Pink Floyd,

I like the Allman

Brothers, big Allman Brothers fan.

And, but you know, I felt like I'd

heard a lot of this stuff

and I was like, all

right, you know what?

Everyone is always

hyping up the Grateful Dead.

The Grateful Dead,

this could tell them like,

all right, let me just put on 23.

And so I'm listening to it.

I'm like, all right, you know,

some of these recordings are kind of

like, they're older.

Like, I don't know if

the quality is the best.

And I'm like, you know, I

give it a shot a little bit.

Okay, go back to the regular stuff.

And a couple of weeks later, all right,

let me put it back on,

let me just see how it is.

And I was like, you know what?

Actually, I'll start

to come around to it.

Man, I wish I could go see these guys.

And then all of a sudden they play one,

a dead company comes on instead.

And I'm like, well, this is different.

And I'm like, I started looking it up.

I'm like, holy, holy shit.

These guys are touring now.

I could actually go see this band.

So I texted my

buddy, Zach, who's, again,

he's not ahead either.

He's not gotten into jam music.

We just both like music.

And I'm like, yo, dude,

this show is gonna be in Boulder,

like over fourth of July weekend, 2019.

I'm like, would you

be interested in going?

And he goes, dude, I have

an uncle to live in Boulder.

We could just go stay with them.

It's gonna be perfect.

So we fly out there.

We have no idea what's even going on.

O'Teal was on the plane with us.

No way. Oh, no way.

Well, he lives in Boca.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we didn't even know.

Oh my goodness.

And we're sitting

there at baggage claim

and we're like asking other people,

they're like, yo, are

you going to the dead show?

And they're like,

everyone on this plane

is going to the dead show.

Like look around,

everyone's in tie-dye.

Yeah.

Oh, that doesn't make sense.

He's like, actually,

that's a bass player over there.

We're like, no way.

He's got his kid on his shoulders.

Like, you know, it's just--

That's cool.

You know, so-- Was it at Red Rocks?

No, it was at Folsom Field.

Okay.

And so we go, I didn't even know when

we bought the tickets

but it was the final show of the tour.

And we just got an

absolute scorcher set list

and of which the only

song I knew ahead of time

was "Scarlet of the Gonjos."

Yeah, which is one of the best songs.

It is one of the best songs.

And then ever since,

you know, I got back

and I was like, dude, I

can't stop thinking about it.

We got "Loser," "Eyes of

the World," "Not Fade Away."

Like all these just songs that are some

of my favorite songs now.

Yeah.

And me and Zach, we

dove like, you know,

head in into the music and we couldn't

stop listening to it.

And that's ultimately how I got

introduced to Goose also

because Goose played at

this playing in the sand

in 2021 or two as

like the pool party band.

Yeah, yeah.

Which was, but so yeah, ever since now,

I've seen "Dead in Company" probably

six or seven times.

I saw it once with my dad.

I really feel my

dad's not ahead at all.

Yeah, that's cool.

I saw them at the Sphere last year.

Oh, nice.

How was that?

Cause when I see it, like

on social media or whatever,

it looks like, I feel

like I would get dizzy.

I did for one second.

Yeah.

And it's, I don't know if they've

changed the visuals

like for this year, but

when they started out,

it was like that

high street, like house,

and then it like backs up

and then like zooms you out

from the earth until

you like get to space.

And then that's when they started doing

all the cool visuals

and stuff.

But like in that first moment,

I'm like standing up trying to dance

and like I'm getting

like zoomed out backwards.

And I was like, whoa, what the hell?

You lose your freedom

of reference, I think.

And so I was like, I

didn't have to sit down,

but I had to grab the chair and I was

like, this is strange.

And then, you know,

then the whole rest of it,

like it was fine.

Maybe a little bit disorienting at

times, but not like that.

And then at the end,

they zoomed you back in,

but the zooming in was fine.

It was just zooming out that was crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's an

interesting perspective.

So when you first went to

the Dead in Company show,

did you know

anything about the culture?

Did you know about the

Shakedown Street parking lot scene?

No, the only thing I

knew was I was reading like,

oh, going to my first Dead show, like

what should I expect?

And like I read some

cynic on the internet.

I don't even know how I

found this dude's article.

And he's like, I don't know

why anyone would want to go

see the Dead.

It sounds like someone

tuning a guitar for three hours.

And I was like, well, yeah.

I was like, all right, well, whatever.

So then I'm like, all

right, yeah, forget it.

We'll just go and

we'll have a good time.

And we sat in the way back,

like probably the

furthest seats you could have.

I was blocked by a field goal post.

Oh my gosh.

But I remember just listening to the

music and just being

like, oh my God, this is crazy.

Yeah.

And actually, I wanted to ask you guys,

how did you get, I mean, you have,

what is this 150 to 100 tapes here?

Yeah, probably about 100 to 200.

Wow.

Yeah.

So how did you get introduced?

For me, funny thing is actually,

I was, when I first heard

the Dead, I didn't like them.

I was like, turn this off.

I don't like this.

And then slowly got into it.

It was in high school.

I saw my first Dead show

in 1986 at Giant Stadium.

And you go to your first

show and if you're into it,

you're into it and you're hooked.

So I rolled into Giant

Stadium as a 15 year old kid.

And we pull into the parking lot and

there's like big boats.

People towed their boats and they're

partying in their boats.

People are pushing

people around in dumpsters

partying and just the shakedown scene.

And then it was with

Dead and the Dylan.

So Bob Dylan played with Grateful Dead.

Dylan Dead.

It was in the summer,

yeah, Dylan and the Dead.

And then, it just kind of happens.

Sure.

It just be kind of,

cause when I was in high

school, I played sports.

I was in the three sports.

And, but then you

discover the Grateful Dead

and it's this, it just fits.

It's life changing.

So how many shows would

you say that you've been to?

We've been to over a

hundred I would say.

Yeah, about, well, you

know, just the Dead and Garcia

probably around 75 to 80.

That's incredible.

And you start tagging on like,

we've, I took Nathan to see further.

Sure.

Down in, what's that little place?

Miami.

Bayfront.

Bayfront.

He was a young kid actually.

Yeah.

So he's seen Bayfront.

We've seen like Bobby's, Bobby's band.

Bob Weir. He has his own band.

Oh, the Wolf Brothers.

Yeah, and then Bobby on his own.

We've been to Rat Dog.

That's where Jeff, the keyboard player.

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about him.

Are you a?

I'm a huge fan.

I think he's amazing.

He's amazing, right?

Yeah, you see that?

Like the way that he plays,

cause like, I think a lot of musicians,

they get accustomed to the

way that they like to play.

And sometimes your ear

starts to think like,

oh, he's gonna go here next,

because that's like how

my ear has been trained

based off my own

style, my own influences.

His playing in particular never ceases

to break that routine for me,

because the creativity and

the way he approaches it,

he just, oh, he's gonna go here,

but he goes there instead.

And I would have never seen it coming.

So I think my first

impression of him was like,

oh, this guy is good, but

like, you know, whatever.

There's better

keyboard players out there.

But as I listen, and

especially over the last,

I mean, that was 2019

and now we're in 2025.

So it's like six years of them

continuing to play together.

And this guy's chops

are just off the rails.

And that's on the piano,

that's not even to

mention once he gets on the B3.

That's crazy.

I think the first time I

saw him was with Rat Dog.

And it might've been

here in Meisner Park.

And I was like, this guy's pretty good.

And then we saw him with Further.

And then you see him

with Dead in Company.

And then just watching him

on YouTube and other things.

I mean, honestly, I

don't know of anyone,

I don't know if there's a better

keyboardist right now

that I can think of

from an improv perspective

of kind of like you're saying,

I think he could play with anybody.

I'm sure he could play with anyone.

Yeah, there's another

guy in the scene too

that I think has also

been a really big influence.

And that's Marco Benavento from J-Rad.

100%.

He's phenomenal too.

Yeah, J-Rad's awesome.

He's incredible.

And some of the things

that he does on the keys

makes me feel like he's

got four arms or something.

I don't know.

Have you listened to, well,

my first show was at the

Otsun Stadium in Oregon.

Oh, great. Because I'm from Oregon.

So my experience, at the

same timeframe and everything,

my experience with it was live change.

I think with the dead,

when everyone first hears it,

it's more like what?

And it's that reaction

of, I don't understand this.

And then it helps to go see them live.

And then obviously once Jerry died,

that became almost impossible.

But then with further,

and with Dead and Company,

it offers that experience

for younger generations.

So I am so grateful for that

because you can listen

to it and listen to it

but until you have a live experience,

that's what really solidifies

understanding all of it,

the culture of it. Absolutely.

Because there's a culture too.

And it's a culture that

once you're a deadhead,

it becomes a part of your life.

And it never leaves you.

It's like in your blood

and it's hard to explain.

And there's a saying for deadheads,

we are everywhere and we

are everywhere of all ages.

And I know Brian and I,

when we go to different,

because we'll go see cover bands too.

And I love seeing

people your age there.

I love it.

It gives me such hope.

I love it.

It doesn't work as well for me though.

I love that Dead and

Company's going for you guys.

But for me, they're just a cover band

because we got to see Jerry live.

I was gonna ask you how

you guys feel about it.

Yeah, and I don't wanna

sound like a dick, right?

Because that kind of, it

can come across as dicky,

but it's like the Allman Brothers

without Greg Allman.

They're no longer the Allman Brothers.

The Grateful Dead without

Jerry's no longer the dead.

So it's hard, but-

I liked Dead and Company.

I enjoy it because it

was pretty, so many-

I don't know the CJ Rad though.

It's so many members.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's so many members still.

Well, with Billy and

Mickey and Bobby there,

you still have so

many members of the dead.

I don't view them as

a cover band at all.

I know Brian does.

We differ in that.

So I still think it

still is going strong,

the whole culture of it.

But we've passed on

the dead to our kids.

Nathan is a big dead head.

That's how I knew how I knew to talk.

So Nate and I have

even gone to see a couple,

like Unlimited Devotion was doing it.

Uncle Mike's one time and we went.

But to what you were saying about them

being a cover band,

for me, I think the

perception is a little different

just because I was never-

Of course.

96, I never would

have had the opportunity.

So I'm grateful that

the music is out there

being played at such a high level

by such talented musicians.

And just the nature

of that style of music

being so improvisational, I mean,

there's, they played

what 250 nights a year

for 50 years or something like that.

And no two-

There's a t-shirt that

tells you all about it.

No two recordings are the same.

So even though, yes, it's different,

nowadays it would have

been different anyways.

Yes, you're right.

That's how I view it.

And so then if it's

J-Rad, if it's Dead in Company,

if it's Crazy Fingers

and Depot or the Biscuit

or Unlimited Devote, like,

I'm just happy to be able to be,

like you said, a part of the scene

and hear this music that

takes you on such a journey.

It's the magic.

It's the music never stopping.

And that's what I love about it

is the music is not stopping.

And that to me is more

important than who's playing it.

Because when we're all there together,

dancing, the energy is the same.

I'm one of those that are dancing.

Oh, me too.

And the energy is the same for me

as when I was at a show.

So I can tell you that.

When I am at one of those,

whatever it was, Dead

in Company or anything,

and when I'm hearing the music,

it's the same

energy, it's the same vibe,

it's the same magic.

So you are

experiencing what we experience.

It's just that we were fortunate to

experience with Jerry.

Yes.

But you're still

having that same experience.

I can tell you that.

Because I have the same experience.

And I've seen you, Brian.

You're dancing too.

Yeah, I think that's the difference.

I'm pondering it

because I think what I,

it's an interesting thing.

If I think of maybe three bands I

really, really like

would be The Dead, The Allman

Brothers, and Billy Strings.

And obviously can't have The Dead

or The Allman Brothers anymore.

What I really like about Billy Strings

is as I'm sitting there, I'm like,

okay, when they end a song, I'm like,

all right, what's next?

And it's more like, what's next?

I wanna see where this goes.

I don't have that same vibe

when like Dead in Company.

You do to a point, but I don't know,

it's just different.

And I don't mean to shit on them.

It's an amazing

thing, they're still going.

I think people shit on mirror

unnecessarily, unfairly.

He's a phenomenal guitarist, he's a

phenomenal vocalist.

He can go, but Bobby's older, Mickey

and Billy are older.

So it's just different.

But for you guys, Nathan loves it.

I think that's one of the

things that makes it great

to have the options though,

because like they get critiqued all the

time for the tempo.

Yes. Yes.

Totally there's merit to it.

They still get there and they have

these amazing jams,

but if you want more

beat, you can see J-Rod.

Yes.

Because they're pushing

the tempo the whole time.

It's a good point.

Like when Dead and Co wraps up songs,

you're not like,

what's next, what's next?

But I do get that when I see J-Rod

and they'll do these

ambient transitions,

much like the Dead used to do.

And I'm like, oh,

they're gonna start terrapin.

Maybe they don't, maybe

they go somewhere else,

completely different.

And I love having that.

That's one of the things

that keeps it so interesting.

And that's why the shows never get old

because they keep you on your toes.

It's my favorite part,

but I'm like that

even at Crazy Fingers.

Same.

I'm like, and I listen.

They're awesome though.

They are awesome, but I'm one of those,

even when I first started,

where I listen at the end of the song

to hear what they're going into,

because they do tell you.

And so I can usually

name it even before he does.

And I'm always telling Nathan

when I'm with him for Crazy Fingers

and he'll be like,

how did you know that?

But I focus so much on that.

I think that's one of the best parts

is what are they going into next.

I love that.

I think we're starting with you.

I think you just

touched on a good point.

So they're playing with the tempo,

and I think it's cool.

And I think Bob Weir

reserves the ultimate right

to revisit this music,

because it's his, right?

He's a pivotal piece of it all.

But I'm not into that tempo play.

And it just is what it is.

That's what I mean.

I don't mean to sound like a dick.

I'm not shitting on them.

I think it's awesome

that Weir is still alive,

still doing this.

He's playing with the music.

He's revisiting it.

I'd rather listen to Billy Strings.

Yeah. There's an authenticity too

about that music, too, Billy,

because it's being

created now and it is new.

Probably like that feeling

that you got watching Jerry

do his thing.

He just, yep, you're nailing it.

That nostalgic kind of feeling,

you're tapping into that

by watching Billy do it

for the first time.

Yes, you just nailed it.

I think that Billy

gives him the feeling

he used to have going to see

the dead, the original dead.

That's a massive compliment to Billy

and his musicianship

and what he's doing.

He's, I find him completely amazing.

I get goosebumps thinking about it

because it's just so good.

It's so agreeable, right?

It just fits.

I haven't seen him yet,

but he's on my list for sure.

He'll be in St. Augustine, what is it?

April 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

3rd, 4th, and 5th.

3rd, 4th, and 5th.

But then he's going to Tampa April 9th.

We're still on the fence

to take a road trip over.

Maybe I'll go have a good buddy

who's a fellow musician also that lives

out there in Tampa.

So funny story, we went up to,

we flew up to Penn

State University last summer

to see Billy for

August 2nd and August 3rd.

And we're hanging out on the

PSU campus at the Starbucks.

It's raining, so we hopped

in to get, and there's Billy.

No way.

Yeah, so I see Billy and

I start yelling to her,

I go full blown fucking fanboy mode.

I have no cool about me, right?

And I'm like, "Call, hurry."

She's like, "Huh?"

I'm like, "Just hurry."

And then we see him and

he's the nicest, kindest.

So humble.

So such good energy guy.

You know, you just meet

someone that's just like,

"This guy's energy is on this right."

Definitely.

But I'm in full blown fanboy mode,

I'm still embarrassed by it.

Oh, you were fine.

You were fine, but no,

he's what you would have hoped

he would be when you meet him.

Oh, that's amazing to hear.

But we weren't live Billy strings.

The way he is is how

he was at that show.

So I do see the difference.

Yeah.

As are you.

I'm a little kid again.

You are, but we've never seen J-Rad.

Oh, if they come around.

Oh, we're going.

I really wanna see them,

but they did come down

to Meisner years ago,

but I don't think

they've been here since.

Like when you guys were in high school,

I think they were at Meisner.

You know what I do actually?

I don't know, you've

heard of nugs.net, right?

Yeah, of course.

Okay, so I have a

nugs.net subscription.

Yeah, same.

Okay, so I watch all these guys.

I've seen Goose, watch Billy, J-Rad.

There's some really good

bands actually out there.

Yeah, definitely.

So there's some local bands that

we kind of run in similar scene as.

So there's one band

local called Guavatron.

It's really cool.

I don't know if you

guys ever seen Guavatron.

For a while we were doing this thing.

It's like a local jam

night at a warehouse

called the Arts

Warehouse in West Palm Beach.

And so some of our guys went up

and I was fortunate to sit in and play

with them on the keys.

And then there's another band

that's from South Florida called Tand.

And Tand had, there's

another band that was,

they kind of evolved into Tand kinda,

called the Heavy Pets.

I don't know,

they're another like local

to South Florida jam.

That sounds familiar, yeah.

The Heavy Pets in

particular had a keyword player.

His name is Jim Wurst.

He still plays around here

and he is a monster in the keys.

Really one of the most

tasteful kind of lead lines

that you can hear around town.

I've seen them in a

couple of different places.

But yeah, those are some

bands that kind of grew

out of down here and have

really spread their wings

and done well for

themselves. And they're jam bands?

They're jam bands

and you can find Tand,

you can find Guavatron on Nuggs.

Okay, no, we'll have

to check those out.

Check them out for sure.

Real quick, as a keyboardist,

have you listened to the

different eras of the dead

with the different keyboardists?

So when you said 86

was your first show,

I was thinking, okay,

these are Brent years.

Brent, yes, definitely.

And so, you have opinion.

Have you listened to

Pigpen's years and to Donna and--

I like the Donna stuff.

I know she divides

opinion, but especially--

I like Donna.

The beat it on down

the line with Donna,

the harmonies, it's just like,

if I'm driving around and

I just, like, I love it.

Yeah, and Keith.

You all have to do some nights.

So what we've done is, I

can plug my cassette player

into this and we'll sit in here,

we'll have some drinks and just chill

and listen to some bootlegs.

Oh, it'd be amazing.

Make him and Nathan do it.

It's fun, really?

And then they talk about the show.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, I would love to do that.

Yeah, for sure.

Oh, we could get some

good conversation on that.

Yeah, we could do a

whole episode on that.

But what's your opinion on,

have you listened to

Keith and Pigpen and Brent?

Sure, I like the Keith

stuff because it's simple

and he doesn't, like,

Brent is another lead player.

Yeah. Or he can be,

which I really like that.

Sometimes I'm in the mood for it

though, sometimes I'm not.

I think the Keith

stuff is digestible always.

And I really like the Hornsby stuff

when he would say it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Because he was just incredible.

Yeah. Yeah, incredible.

Of course.

I had a special show

actually shortly after Brent died.

People are like, are

they gonna, is it over?

And it's like, it's not over.

And so their first

show after that summer

was in Philadelphia, it

was at the Philly Spectrum.

I got tickets and went down.

And it was Bruce with Vince Wellnick.

Oh, really, wow. Yeah.

Unbelievable to have both of them

playing at the same time.

I don't know if it was

the first show or not,

I think it was, but

to hear both of them.

And they opened the

second set with a scarlet fire

and the whole place was moving.

It was almost like, oh, shit, it was,

we're gonna handle this. We're back.

I saw them both too

right after Brent died,

but I can't remember what

venue, it was on the West Coast.

I don't know if it was

Audson or if it was Cal Expo

or Shoreline. Like in

Oakland or something.

Or Oakland, but I also

saw both of them together

because they had big shoes to fill.

So they brought two of them in

to kind of help with the transition.

So a loud personality for the musical.

I'm sure he was as an individual too,

but from a musical perspective,

he definitely has a big footprint.

It was a huge loss for

us heads during that time.

That was our keyboardist and it was

like a huge transition.

Yeah, it was terrible.

It was, but each of them, and then

Pigpen has his own.

Have you ever heard Pigpen stuff?

I've heard the Pig stuff.

I really love when he does,

he's really a vocalist too.

As good as he is as a

keyboard player and an organist,

maybe he doesn't get

the credit, maybe he does,

you guys are more, you

were there, not there,

then you were more in the part of the

community at the time.

And I love when he does on Good Lovin'

and he's like, turn on your love light,

that kind of stuff.

And you just don't get that.

I heard Bobby try and do it.

Yeah, I know.

And it's like,

you're not gonna get that.

They call them pig rants.

Pig rants, I've never heard that.

So one of the best pig

rants is from Princeton,

Dylan Jim, Princeton, New Jersey, 1971.

Oh, sure.

And it's like a half an hour rant,

it's a Good Lovin', it's crazy.

It's because he's

sharing his tortured soul.

And if Bobby can't replicate that,

that's coming from his demons.

I'd like to hear that one for sure.

Yeah, you'll have to send that to him.

All right, so bringing us back,

that was our debate. I

do have more questions.

About the den?

No, no, no.

One question I'll throw it out there,

you don't have to

answer now, but I am curious.

Because I think, I love the

keyboardists, I love Brent,

I love Keith, I love Greg

Allman, Elton John, right?

Billy Joel, and Cimente, I

think that's how you say it.

Cimente, yeah. Cimente, yeah.

So my question is,

how do you make the leap

from playing recitals in

sixth grade on a classical piano

to getting into rock,

being a rock musician,

playing keyboards and

organs and stuff like that?

I've always, I would ask

these guys the same question.

Yeah, I know, sure.

The truth of the matter

is that I never wanted

to play classical, really.

It was just like kind

of the necessary evil

to kind of cut your teeth

and get the technique down.

I remember Billy Joel's song,

"Scenes from an Italian Restaurant",

long beautiful song,

the place that piano solo,

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

do, do, do, do, do, do,

and my parents, again, blessed them.

When I was trying to learn that part,

I mean two weeks straight, every day I

come home from school,

I take my phone out, I put

it next to me, I hit record,

do, do, do, do, do, do,

do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

ah, fuck, stop, restart,

rerecord, and just for hours,

every day to get that lick,

do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

and it was like, I

knew that I wanted to play

more along that style of music,

and then to your question about like,

okay then, how do you

get, because that's not real,

it's rock, but it's not

the same type of rock,

and I just, I liked Pink Floyd, I liked

the Allman Brothers,

and I never paid that much

attention even to the keys

and rock music, which

maybe sounds kind of crazy,

I was always, because

part of me still had

that Guitar Hero kid inside of me,

and I was just dialed in to the guitar,

even though I was playing my own,

and I was playing more like, you know,

popular stuff,

whatever, like for the band,

like the Stone Keys band, you know,

we played a variety of stuff,

played mayor tunes and whatnot,

you know, like

things that sorority girls

and people in college wanted to hear,

so we weren't, like

even though we could jam,

we weren't like a

jam band by any means,

I think that exposure to the dead,

and then like, then more

to the Allman Brothers too,

starting to listen, like,

all right, and Little Feet,

my buddy's dad, Bobby's dad

turned me on to Little Feet,

he's like, he was telling me,

you gotta play Dixie Chicken, you gotta

play Dixie Chicken.

I love that song, I saw

them open for the dead.

Really? Yes.

I bet that was an incredible show.

It was, it was. Do you

remember when that was?

It was 80.

It was either 87 or 88.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I saw Little Feet

play at this little theater

in Fort Lauderdale, the Parker,

and it must've been like,

you know, two years ago,

and I was stunned, and

these guys are all older now,

they get up on stage, and

I'm looking at them like,

you know, how's it gonna be?

And I sat there, I was fortunate

because I was in the back

right next to the soundboard,

and everyone else was sitting,

but I was in the very last row,

so I stood the whole

time, and I'm telling you,

it's been a long time

since I've seen a show

where I literally was

like, the whole time.

Yeah, they jam. Yeah.

I couldn't believe it. They're amazing.

And they're a keyboard player.

You know, I made the

joke about Marco earlier

having forearms, this guy

probably had eight arms.

Yeah. The things that he was doing.

Yeah. Yeah, they're awesome.

They're awesome. But

that type of exposure,

the thing like, all

right, well, you know,

I wanna play music like that,

and you know, I always

kinda like to improvise,

but it was that

exposure to the extended jams

that you get from the dead,

the dead in particular too,

and just hearing that and being like,

I wanna try and do that,

and then the Ruminators,

when I played with them,

we were, for all intents and purposes,

a garage band that

would play out periodically.

I think I probably played

like two, maybe three gigs

with them, one of them was a wedding,

which was one story,

but we would play,

and they were so good

and so intentional about saying like,

all right, we're in

this song, it's solo time,

and each person in the band--

Oh, they'd pass it around. Here you go,

but it wasn't like, all right, take a

little solo and go,

it was like, however

much time you need to build

and execute your

idea, here's the floor.

That is awesome.

And because we weren't

playing for other people,

you know, we were just

playing for ourselves mostly,

and like I said, they had a good setup,

we could record everything,

and then I would go

back and I would listen,

and I was like, oh, well, that was a

cool idea that I did,

or I would have not

done that this time,

and then now at this

point, I got myself a Yamaha,

it's called a CP88 keyboard, it's nice,

weighted keys feels

like a real grand piano,

and had some other sounds on it too,

like the electric keyboard,

stuff that like

Stevie Wonder would play,

and then it's got the claves, and then

it had an organ tone,

and so I'd start to experiment,

and I'm like, all right,

well, my organ tone's not right,

well, I need to get

an expression pedal,

so I can toggle the Hammond on and off,

or the Leslie on and off,

so now I'm experimenting

with these different sounds,

and thank God, you know,

I'd say they had the

patience to let me do that,

but it's not even about patience,

because that's just the style of music,

and that's where they came from,

so they would have been doing that

even if I was there or not,

but I think that they

really liked having me

as like the young gun, so--

For sure, yeah, there's a question.

I really loved playing with them,

and they have a new guy that's playing

keys with them now,

because it's just too much for me

to keep up with the multiple bands,

but I mean, I love those guys,

and they're all super,

super talented music.

Rich is like 70, and he's

out there still rippin' it,

so you know, I think that,

but that, to answer your question,

them giving me the floor to do that,

and now I go play with 59 Shop,

and it's much more,

they don't give you

that much of a window,

we don't give each other

quite that much of a window,

so I have to be a

little bit more concise,

and sometimes louder,

because we also play

a little more upbeat,

and like dynamically,

your music is way down,

so you can start your idea,

it's nothing, and then build up to,

now we're all in it together,

so it's different, the

amount of time that we have,

but that was where I got the

inspiration for it.

Quick side note, check out,

I think it's 1990 or 91,

Buffalo Show, Jerry and

Brent go back and forth,

it's really cool, it's on YouTube,

look up like Grateful Dead, Buffalo,

I think it's 1990 or something.

My favorite is watching

them look at each other.

I need the pig pen,

71, she's like, yeah.

And you have to hook him up.

How do you know when

you're doing that individual,

each member, and I've always wondered

this even with the dead,

so if everyone's doing their thing,

how does the band know

when that person is done,

and it's time to move on

to the next transition,

because it's always so seamless,

and I'm like, how did they all know?

Yeah, I think most of the time,

it's like a series

of orchestrated, like.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

It had knives and eyebrows.

Okay, okay, that's what I wondered.

Hold on, like.

So with the ruminators,

I was telling you guys

we played this wedding,

and the bride really wanted

in memory of Elizabeth Reed,

that was what she wanted.

I love that song.

And then, you know.

Hold the mic a little bit closer.

Yeah, do you ever play it before?

So we put some time in on that one

to make sure that we got it dialed in,

and then another one that they wanted

was Judy Blue Eyes.

Like, probably like the scene.

Scene of someone.

Yes, that one took a

lot of time to dial in,

and actually, I didn't

do as much on that one.

They had some extra practices

dialing the harmonies for that one.

I don't really sing for that.

But anyways, in Elizabeth Reed,

there's like the

(humming)

and there's a series of cues musically

that tell you, oh, this solo's over,

where it's about to start,

and then that'll help us.

There's one part

distinctly where the guitar solo,

I'm like, oh, that

was his closing lick.

I'm up now.

So sometimes that's baked in.

And then even with 59 Shop, we

rehearsed these things.

So we'll tell each other in advance,

this is going to, we're

going to make this transition,

be ready for it.

And then we're all kind of

looking around, listening,

and sometimes you get

three out of five people

that are on it, but as long

as you've got bass, drums,

and one other rhythm

instrument, normally,

everyone else would be

like, oh, shit, yeah,

that was the cue.

We're there.

I mean, we're pretty tight.

We definitely put the

practice in to rehearse.

But yeah, especially with jam bands,

a lot of it seems just

kind of like it's being done

on a whim or on the fly,

but the hours that these people put in,

and the rehearsals,

yeah, and the chemistry.

And the chemistry, or they do the

signal, like I'm done.

And on the stage of

like Goose, for example,

these guys have talkback mics.

So they'll have their vocal mic,

they'll have another mic over here,

and they come over and they're like,

we're going to the B part.

And we can't hear that,

but they can all hear

that in their own ears.

I think all of them have that.

I know Billy Strings has that.

He has a mic behind

him, that's a talkback mic.

I think that when we saw

Bass Sector like last month,

he was talking to his

crew in one of those.

He kept picking up a mic and I'm like,

how come we can't hear him?

It's very high tech nowadays.

Oh, sure.

It's because, yeah, so

yeah, that was, okay,

so you're, we're going back to,

you're playing with the ruminators,

and you're still

working for Bobby's dad.

And then how long did you

continue on those paths?

So the ruminators, I,

even while I was still

playing with 59 Shop,

I kept playing with them for some time.

And then just like a

combination of, of life.

And, you know, I did,

so I took this time off

and I was, you know,

my little gap year.

Oh, that's right.

You're taking the time off.

That's right.

That's right.

So I had done that

and I was playing music.

I traveled, I actually did

a couple of weeks in Europe

with some of my buddies from college.

And then when I got

back, I had it all set.

So I got back from

Europe on July 29th or 30th.

And I started at my new

job, which was in tech sales.

I really wanted to get into tech

with a company called Citrix,

their global company where they're

based in for a lot of,

you're an IT, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I know Citrix.

Okay, yeah.

So I started with them August 1st.

So I like had it all planned out.

And then August 12th, you know, I met a

girl and, you know,

we really hit it off.

Ended up dating for like

two and a half years almost.

Wow.

But all of these things I'm moving.

I was with my parents when

I first got back from Europe

and like all these things

were going on at the same time.

Yeah.

So I was like, all right,

something's got to give.

And unfortunately it was

the ruminators at that point.

And then even still

after that, I got together

and I played with the wedding for them,

which was not until

like December of 22.

So like the timelines, they just all,

a lot of things kind

of converged at once.

And that's why I

stopped playing with them

and focused more, which was 59 Shop.

So 59 Shop was your next

band after the ruminators.

That was the one that I

met at third and third

where they call me.

Okay.

And I had the audition.

And those are the guys that I've been

playing with since.

And then they're all so talented

and I got a special shout

out, Steve, our drummer.

Steve is an amazing drummer.

He's an incredible bass player.

He's a great songwriter.

And he plays bass in more

bands than he plays drums in.

And actually 59 Shop is the only band

that he plays drums in.

Interesting.

And so there's, we have

like another band offshoot

that is a wedding band.

We just played our first wedding.

It was at the start

of March, March 1st.

And we're learning

like Earth, Wind and Fire,

Yeah. Ava, Kurnee.

Yes.

Like, so if you guys know anyone

who's getting married, Okay.

He's a wedding band.

What's the name of the wedding band?

Yeah, that band is

called The Pleasures.

The Pleasures.

Call for a good time.

(both laughing)

I love it, that's great.

And so is that the

same members as 59 Shop?

So it's Steve, our

drummer is playing the bass

and then it's a couple.

So Steve teaches at School of Rock.

Oh yeah, okay. And Bokeh,

he teaches every instrument.

So like if anyone's listening to this,

it is a kid that needs lessons.

Go see Steve at School of Rock.

I wish sometimes

that I could be like 12,

Yeah. Like a fish, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Okay.

And that is a tropical punk band,

which is very

interesting. Very interesting.

Okay. Yeah, you

should check them out too.

That's called Rasp Band.

Steve and Garrett just released a song

called "Nowhere to Go"

which is actually

about like the government

and how they're trying

to get rid of Florida's

like natural wildlife

and things like that.

So it's kind of like a punk rebel song,

but also very well

written and orchestrated.

And these guys are

just, they're wizards.

So it's all their stuff up on like

Apple Music, Spotify.

Yeah, so check that out as well.

And we'll link

everything in the description.

Yes, and expect things.

Yeah, we'll link everything.

Yeah, for sure. So that's so cool.

So wait, you're in

three bands right now?

Some of them I just show

up and play, which is good.

But 59 Shop is the

main one, that's the baby.

And we were talking

before we got started,

maybe it seems like we

took a little bit of hiatus

from playing gigs.

And we did actually

played New Year's Eve

and then we didn't play

until the start of March

for actually Bobby, a different Bobby,

which I got to talk about him

and I will get to him in a minute

because he's another

amazing, beautiful human too,

and great musician.

But it was his birthday,

so we played Banana Boat

up here in Boynton.

And then we've got

another show coming up

on the 19th of April at

Guanabanas in Jupiter,

which is pretty cool venue

if you guys haven't been.

But we've been focusing

more on writing original music

and this is of the bands,

well, I guess Rass is originals,

but I'm not involved

in the writing process.

That's Garrett, he

does most of the work.

But with 59 Shop,

that's where we've been

really collaborating and

trying to come up with something.

Because the one thing

that makes the band special

and unique is that every person comes

from a very

different musical background,

except like maybe me and

Bobby, Bobby's ahead also.

So him and I kind of have--

You see the guitarist

with the dead shirt on

in some of those videos?

Yeah, yeah.

That would be him.

And then you see our

other guitar player.

His name is, well, we

call him Slick Rick.

We'll go by Slick

Rick and he is just one

of the best guitar players

I've ever had the pleasure

of playing with, but he

comes from more of a heavier,

or like a metal background.

And sometimes you can hear that come

through in the playing.

Then you've got Steve, who's kind of

this jack of all trades,

Swiss Army Knife musically.

And then my friend Mitchell,

who's one of my best friends

and he's a really good bass player,

but he really is a bass head.

So, yeah, him and I used

to go to electronic shows

and stuff together too.

So we have that in common as well.

And that's another thing

Nate and I share in common.

Yeah.

So do you-- What is--

Okay. You wanna go?

I was gonna say, do you all

participate in songwriting?

So the songwriting

process, it is dynamic,

I think is probably

the best way to say it.

You will, at times, have all five of us

just kind of stumble

on a groove and be like,

whoa, that has to be something.

And then, you know,

maybe we'll collab on lyrics

or something like that.

But what we found is it works best

with like two or

three or even one person.

When you have all five,

it's like too many cooks in

the kitchen type situation.

So when we came back at

the start of the year,

like everyone makes

resolutions in their own lives,

made resolutions as a band, all right,

like what is our goal?

Let's really commit to

getting back to songwriting.

And one of the ways that

we did that was we said,

if one person has an idea for a song,

they're allowed to come in.

And rather than it be like

this whole super collaborative thing,

you'd be like, hey, this is my idea.

You do this, you do that, you do this.

Obviously each musician is talented.

And like, I mean, if I tell Steve like,

hey, I can't tell him I want you to do

exactly what I want on the drums.

We'd be like, hey, I want a disco beat.

And he'll take his

liberty with that, right?

Yeah, yeah.

So, but really more like one person

or two people are kind of

like the musical director

on the song.

And I think most of it

is coming from Bobby.

And then a portion of it comes from me.

And then Steve is a big influence too.

And then Rick being

the lead guitar player,

you know, he has his own

influence on the music as well.

And he comes up with

cool different like lines

and things like that that we wouldn't

have thought of otherwise.

And then sometimes

we'll tell him, we're like,

Rick, this part, go.

Yeah.

And that's how we're.

Okay, that makes sense.

Sorry, go ahead.

You were gonna ask.

Well, no, what's interesting is when

Kaya was in a band,

I used to go there and

film and record for them.

And it was very much

the same type of process

you're describing where they

had a guy, his name's Jamie.

Jamie's a phenomenal local

musician down here as well.

And he was their musical director.

And he'd be like, Nick,

that guitar riff, you do that.

Adam on the drums, you do this.

I think it was Emily,

your rhythm, you do this.

And it kind of collaborated like that.

It was cool what you're describing.

Kind of delegating a little bit.

Yeah.

It like offers a

little bit of control maybe

in the chaos of songwriting.

Yeah.

You know.

It can be chaotic.

I think the most is writing lyrics too.

So sometimes I'll be

like, hey, you'll Bobby,

I need words for this song.

This one is just not

like, I don't know.

A songwriting has always been,

or the lyric writing has

always been hard for me.

More music-minded.

Maybe that comes from

the jam side of things.

Jam bands with the

exception of the dead, I'd say,

are pretty notorious for having like

shitty lyrics, I think.

Well.

Well, not everybody had Robert Hunter.

Yeah, Robert Hunter.

And not just Hunter.

John Perry Barlow.

Yeah, John Perry Barlow.

So that makes a huge difference.

And they also

covered a lot of Bob Dylan.

Yeah.

He's one of the best lyricists ever.

Why are youngest sons

named after him, by the way?

My question was 59 Shop.

I was checking out your videos.

Looks like you guys

have a cool place to play.

Oh, the shop.

The shop itself, I guess.

And I was gonna ask what you're doing

in terms of lyrics,

but is that where you

guys hang out and work?

Yeah, man.

So the shop is like, I love the guys.

I love the band.

I would be lying if I

didn't say that the shop itself

wasn't one of the coolest parts.

It's really cool, yeah, yeah.

I wanna go.

Where's it located?

It's in Boynton by the

Chain Tracks off Woolbright.

And basically they got it before I even

was a part of the band.

So they had it established.

And for all intents and purposes,

it's like a big air

conditioned storage unit.

But this complex at the end,

some people run

small little businesses,

like auto detailing things out of them.

So they're nice.

It's not like you're in a little,

small storage container

or anything like that.

But we've got couches, we've got the

whole thing laid out.

We got a really nice,

we recently upgraded all of our gear

so that it's more like this.

We can record everything that we play

like the Ruminators had.

So we listened to it back.

Some of our recordings that you'll see

online are from that.

In the back, there's

like a little patio.

It's a really, really cool spot.

That's cool.

Aside from being where

we'll go and we'll practice,

sometimes more

constructively than others.

Last night, being a group of musicians,

we all have other musical friends.

So I wanna say there's

probably like 10, 12 people

over there just drinking beers and just

a big communal jam.

People swap around on instruments.

And keys are my main thing,

but I could play a little bit of guitar

and I wouldn't play it at a show.

But then I could play

enough bass to get by too.

So we'll all swap around and--

That's cool.

We just, it's the spot.

How often are you

going there and doing that?

We practice or write every Wednesday.

That's been like our day

for probably two years now.

And then you're performing,

it sounds like you'll perform,

but then you guys take breaks too.

For a while we weren't

really taking breaks.

It's just been a little slower now.

I mean, everyone in the

band has their job too.

So it's like very much,

this is the musical outlet

that we all need.

Yes, it's excellent that you have that.

100%, like for us, I think

when we go see live music,

for us, that's our outlet.

But you have such a passion for music.

It's, I was just gonna ask you,

like how do you balance

that passion for music

and then working your tech job,

which I assume you enjoy that as well.

I love it.

So yeah, no, I feel in

general just very blessed

and so grateful for all the

opportunities that I've had

and for the struggles too,

but for now that I have the chance

to have a group of

musical friends and a band that,

we all care about each other.

We all respect each other

and we're all just kind.

We really love each other.

We're friends too.

It's not like, I played with other

bands where it's like,

all right, we're in, we're out.

And that's--

You wanna have fun.

Of course, we're all

entertainers, we're performers.

And then on the flip

side, in my professional life,

I'm working at, it's a tech startup

and they're doing, we

collectively are doing super well,

but the company has

raised over $300 million now.

We're partnering with The

Heat, with the Panthers,

with Chicago Bulls.

And I was in sales for a while for

about a year and a half

and then I got

promoted to being manager.

So I have a team now and--

Nice.

I love that because every day,

it's not about me anymore.

Like it was when I was a rep,

I'm just working to get

other people on the team better

and help them achieve their goals.

What do you guys do?

What is the--

Yeah, so the idea is

like a one-stop shop,

all in one platform

for small business needs

for the back office.

So main product is we

have automated bookkeeping

and accounting.

And then we also

have our corporate card,

which is, I'll plug finally real quick.

(laughing)

It's software as a service.

Yes, we're a SaaS company.

But so like the finally card.

Oh, okay.

Oh, you actually have a card.

Yeah, wow.

You guys wanna see, but it's--

We lend money to small

businesses to help them grow.

And then there's some

nifty software on the back.

That is cool.

Yeah, cool.

Yeah, yeah.

That is very cool.

Some software on the back that helps to

like help the manager expenses,

you know, pay less in

taxes to save a lot of time.

So that's where we're

partnering with the heat,

with Panthers.

And then there's other

products coming down the pipeline

to payroll, global hiring.

So it's like really one-stop shop.

It's not like we're

relying on one product.

So the company's called Finally?

Yeah, Finally, One Place.

Okay, I like that, Finally.

Are you allowed to

say where you're hosted?

Are you in AWS, Azure, or GCP?

Well, we do the work

through QuickBooks.

The work is actually

done through QuickBooks.

So it's just an API integration

because into our platform,

where they're actually hosting our

data, I don't know.

Yeah, okay.

Actually, I do know

it's on Amazon servers.

Yeah, so AWS, okay, yeah.

Because I had a prospect one time,

I'm not gonna work with you guys

unless my data is

being held domestically.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so--

So Finally, I like that.

Yeah, yeah.

That's the name of Finally.

That's a great name.

Okay, that is a great name.

So how long have you been with Finally?

I've been with

Finally since June of 2023.

Okay, so almost two years.

Yeah, I guess going on two years now.

So did you go from Citrix to Finally?

So the Citrix story is kind of an

interesting one too.

So I started there August 1st, 2022.

September 30th, they announced that

they were being delisted

from the public market

and had been acquired

by a private equity firm.

And I was just started as

an SDR in sales development,

booking meetings for the closers.

And I knew that I didn't

wanna do that very long

as I wanna actually

sell, I don't wanna.

But that was what you

had to do to get in.

It was like the entry level.

And so everyone was

kind of freaking out like,

oh my God, we got acquired.

Where are we all gonna get laid off?

Nobody knows, there's

so much uncertainty.

So some people started leaving that

were territory managers.

And actually at one point

we had like team meeting

where they were like,

all right, all the SDRs,

like you guys go

like polish your resumes

because like it's not looking good.

And people were freaking

out, so you're freaking out.

And me being driven,

like when I think, okay,

this is something I wanna do.

I came up with a little

plan I called Operation Stay

on the Ship.

And I was like, all right, this is how

I'm gonna figure out

a way to not get laid off.

And I networked my ass off.

I found, I sought

out mentors from people

that probably had no

business even talking to me.

Like one of the VPs, I was

like, hey, like, Lindsay,

can you help me?

And a guy named Lee too, and another

one of my bosses there,

he saw that I was working hard

and they put me into a closing role.

And I had no experience.

I didn't even know

what a net scaler was.

I don't know if you-- Yeah, yeah.

And I worked and I was the

first person in the office.

And the last one to leave.

And I ended up not getting laid off.

Everyone, 34 other people on the team,

including the

director, got all laid off.

They did move me to a

different product though,

which was-- So did you move from like

Citrix to NetSkiller then?

No, to ShareFile.

ShareFile, okay.

ShareFile is like

DocuSign meets Dropbox.

It's like file

collaboration and sharing

and electronic signature,

mostly for like CPA

firms and attorneys.

But I mean, I think that shows

your hard work and determination.

And in some ways that positive

intention, delusion,

whatever talking to people you think,

who might even talk to this person,

but you went to them as a

mentor, just like why not?

I think it shows that it pays off.

I had nothing to lose.

You had nothing to lose. Totally.

That's the point.

Yeah.

I had one mentor named Mike,

and Mike spent a lot of time with me.

And here's a funny story about Mike.

On every sales call that we were on,

it didn't matter who the prospect was,

he would always talk about barbecue.

And it'd take 10 minutes

at the start of the call

talking about barbecue.

Wait, what are you doing this weekend?

They're like, I don't know.

Well, I'm gonna cook up

a whole mess of barbecue.

And I'd be like slacking him.

I'm like, yo, Mike, can

we get to the pitch, man?

And afterwards one time he goes, hey,

I'm like, why do you

always talk about barbecue?

And he says, because

everyone loves barbecue.

He's teaching me, slow it

down, make the connection.

Anyways, so-- Okay, wait.

Do you watch "The Office"?

Yes.

So do you know what

you just referenced?

Is that Chili's episode?

Yes, everyone loves Chili's.

Where Michael talks to the guy

from Lackawanna School District

about everything other

than why they're there.

And then it works it in at the end,

and he gets the deal.

And Jan is hermione-blown.

And Jan's going crazy,

like, what are you doing?

And they're just talking about rims

and singing baby back ribs.

You're so spot on. And that's it.

And I also love

Chili's too, by the way.

I wish there was one in focus, so.

The reality is no one at

work wants to talk about work.

No. Especially with a salesperson.

And selling IT teams

too? Barbecues too?

Yeah. Yeah.

Because that's who we were selling to.

The last thing I

wanna talk about is IT.

Yeah. You know?

I'll talk music, barbecue,

I don't know about Chili's.

No, no, but they were in in Chili's.

And he was doing

everything except selling.

Yes. And it worked.

You know the

interesting thing about Citrix,

I and you, we know various casualties

from that whole Citrix transition.

It's still going on.

It still is going on.

They're very defunct right now.

Yes. Yeah.

And so anyways, I get moved over

to this other product, ShareFile,

and I was fighting my ass off.

All right, I wanna be in a closing

role, closing role,

and I finally get there.

Okay, well, you're moving to ShareFile.

Okay, great, what is my

territory gonna be like?

Well, you're gonna be

a renewals sales rep.

And I was like,

renewals, I was crushed.

I was like, oh,

revenue retention, like, God,

that's the worst.

But the benefit was

it was a brand new team

that never existed at ShareFile.

No numbers.

No numbers, and I got to be a part

of basically founding this team.

Almost like a startup, because

ShareFile was a startup

within the broader

cloud software group.

And then so I was

within a startup team,

within a startup org, within a very

old, mature company.

So it was really a unique opportunity

to kind of cut my

teeth and help build some

of those systems and processes.

And now I actually applied for a role,

as a closing role, which they told me,

basically, you're qualified, you think

you would do great,

we'd love to have you, you'd be an

amazing culture fit,

but you just got here five

months ago, so get in line.

And one thing I

learned about myself is,

and then even through

some of the struggles

I mentioned before is that the thing

that gives me anxiety

is not feeling like I am

in control of my situation,

that feeling of being in limbo,

and that whole situation was just

drenched in that feeling.

And so I was like, all

right, well, at the meantime,

I was applying to other

places, like, all right,

let me see what's going on.

And that was where I

encountered finally,

the CEO messaged me on

LinkedIn and I set up a call

while I was driving

home from Citrix that day.

And at the time, they had just moved,

in Boker, just right here,

there's that new El Camino they put in,

that big black building

right there is with offices.

Oh, okay.

And when I first got

there, I met the CEO,

he's working on a card table,

there were monitors

all over the ground,

and he's like, do you wanna be a part

of building something?

And I said, absolutely I do.

And then I met one of

the other co-founders,

his name's Edwin, he's a great guy,

mentor to me, boss,

and a friend as well.

They couldn't ask for a

better person to work for.

When I met him, I said,

did you write the script?

He goes, I wrote the

script, and I said, okay,

I'll see you guys.

And since then, just the

opportunity to work directly

with the co-founders

using some of the things

that I learned from

the ShareFile experience,

building out teams,

helping coach other people,

train them, I mean,

even before I got moved

into a management position, I was

already helping mentor

and coach and teach, and there's

another gentleman, Albert,

too, who is one of the, he was the

original salesperson.

He's been selling for 28

years, he reminds me that,

from time to time, he's

also just an amazing dude,

so humble, does

everything to help other people,

but learning from them, and

then taking the opportunity

they've given me just to help others.

Oh, and what I was gonna say about Mike

before I got derailed

on the barbecue thing

was what he always

told me was, I was like,

Mike, what should I do to pay you back?

Just pay it forward,

just pay it forward.

And so, as I'm

helping these younger reps

who are getting hired, they're like,

thank you so much, pay it forward, pay

it forward, pay it forward.

It's such an excellent way

for the older generations

to see how they pass down to you,

and now you're passing down to Gen Z,

the younger generation,

and it's so encouraging,

because so many

times I hear from Gen Zs

and younger millennials

how disgruntled they are

with boomers or with older Gen X,

and that boomers

especially come across as selfish

and self-centered and disconnected

from what the younger generation's

their outlook on life.

So to hear that, at

least in your company,

you're gonna have a wonderful connection

across the generations.

It's amazing, that's awesome.

And it's fortunate too

that we've had the success

that we've had so far,

of course it's a startup,

like something could go wrong tomorrow.

So that's the other thing,

I never take it for granted

and every day is a

blessing that I have.

But we're hiring right now

where a lot of places are not,

so especially like

entry-level sales, we need people.

And management, they invest so much

in giving us

opportunity to grow and learn.

Our CRO is kind of

like a LinkedIn famous guy

and he's got over

100,000 followers on LinkedIn.

Really? Yeah.

His name is KD. KD.

Kevin Dorsey, but he goes by KD.

And-- Why is he such

a big personality?

Because, well he's scaled a couple,

it's like four or five

businesses to over 100 million

in revenue now in a year from where

they weren't doing it.

So he has a track record.

But he has this personality too,

he always wears this

black hat and it's like,

that's him and he's kind

of like a sales teaching,

leadership guru.

And we were fortunate,

very fortunate to get him.

That's awesome.

He's invested in our leadership team

and he took us through

like a six week AI course

and he's got me in another one now.

That's great. The

things that I'm learning

are things that I would have never got

and I'm reflecting on

my previous companies

never even had a chance to.

Yeah. So.

What are you learning

in AI at a sales role?

Yeah, so there were a lot

of different applications.

Most of it was like, how

do you use AI as a seller,

like researching

prospects and things like that.

But because we had 10 or 11 people

in this probably 40 person class,

all of us were in leadership.

So we were asking more questions,

like, all right, well,

how could this be used

for leadership applications?

And one of the things that

I got an idea from for this

was let's create an

AI call scoring bot.

Basically one of the hardest things

for any sales manager to do,

I've got five guys

on my team right now,

each call is anywhere

from 20 minutes to an hour,

sometimes even longer.

And I'm supposed to

listen to these calls

and prepare feedback and

how do I know where to coach?

How do I know where to train?

How do I do these things?

So basically you copy and

paste the call transcripts,

AI goes through and there's a lot of

stuff on the backend

that we had to write out and define,

okay, this is like what a good bucket

question looks like.

This is what it looks like to get

agreement to actually.

So you're kind of writing

the prompt or the script

to drive the AI engine to help score.

Exactly. How the call went.

Exactly. Based on, that's cool.

Yeah, so. Cool stuff.

Very cool. It

started with just our team

and then it got rolled

out to other organizations,

the card team within

the company and actually.

Yeah, it's so cool.

So with this company,

how do they view work-life balance?

I'm assuming it must be pretty good

because you have time to

put towards your music.

We definitely work hard, I will say.

We work hard.

But one of the principles of KD is,

work and life are so intertwined,

they both need to be going well if

you'd really be happy.

If you're not doing

well outside of work,

that'll affect your

performance at work.

And conversely, if

you're not doing well in work,

that's gonna affect your life outside.

So they definitely care about us.

They're constantly teaching us.

They take us to, there's a guy named

Patrick Bette David

who did an event, a big

conference up in West Palm

called The Vault in September.

They took our entire company to go.

It took us all off the

phones for a couple of days.

And they want us to grow,

they want us to develop.

And I think that

professional foundation

and the confidence that you get

from being successful in a role

will help everything else in life.

No, that's great that

they recognize that.

Because, and I don't know if that's

typical of startups.

I feel like I've heard it is.

Startups in general can have--

I've worked for startups

and you work your ass off.

Yeah.

We definitely work

hard, but it's worth it.

And to--

It's fun.

To feel like you're being a

part of building something

that is bigger than you

could do individually.

And like my dad is an entrepreneur.

So I have entrepreneurship aspirations

and I'm sure one day I will.

I've had these sparks lately

that I used to not get

just from some of the things

that I've been learning.

Right.

And so I know my day is coming,

when exactly, I don't know.

But just the

foundation and what they do

to help us get there and

build confidence to say,

all right, and also we're selling to

small business owners.

So I'm on the phone with them.

I'd learn what they do

well, what they do wrong.

And sometimes you're

talking to a small business owner

and you're like, man,

I could definitely do

what you're doing right now.

Yeah.

You know?

Well, what's

interesting about your product,

because I did look it up.

And it is hosted right

software as a service.

If you have the right idea,

you're learning enough that

if you have the right idea,

you could find the

right people to develop it.

Sure.

Find the other people to

run it and you go sell it.

And it's really that simple.

And that's how the world is today.

It's pretty wild at school.

And that's why I'm fortunate to have

background in sales.

And that I very much can thank my dad

for his sales guru himself.

And one of the best speakers that I've

ever had a pleasure

to even hear your

talk and learn from too.

The preparation I told

you is that's serious.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, it sounds like you have

such a great balance

between your music and

your work going right now.

I do have to ask you because you are a

younger millennial,

what is the dating

scene like for your age?

Like with dating

apps or being out there?

What is, how do you view it?

Do you view it as challenging

because there's dating

apps and social media or?

He's a musician.

So he might get a solid answer.

You probably have a

different aspect of,

like what is your view at

your age of being out there?

So I had been in a

relationship for like two

and a half years.

So I was like not actively in it.

Before that relationship,

I was on the dating apps

and I only ended up

going out with people

that I met in person.

So I matched with

people on dating apps.

I would have conversations

and they never seem to go anywhere.

Since I've been single again,

I've gone out on a couple of

dates from some of the apps.

I pretty much only use Hinge,

but like, I don't know,

I've heard good and bad things about

some of the other ones,

but one of my best

friends, Zach and his wife,

they have a baby, they

have another one on the way.

They met on Hinge.

Right. They met on Tinder.

And then, I don't know,

like I know there's a lot

of success stories out there.

So I'm definitely not gonna knock it.

And honestly, like who knows?

Who knows maybe

person that I end up with

it will be met on a dating app.

I don't know.

Do you feel when you're out there

that women are approachable,

or do you feel that

technology has kind of stunted

some of the communication between men

and women your age?

I'm like a pretty outgoing person.

So I feel like I don't

often like meet a stranger.

It's just like have

the confidence to go

and actually approach someone.

And I think people appreciate the old

school approach anyways.

And there's so many different ways.

And I'll just add me on Instagram,

we can continue the conversation there.

So if we like each other, like,

it doesn't have to be so like,

hey, you know, the scholar, like,

what are you doing next Thursday?

Right, right. I don't know.

I'm still figuring out my

own approach and my own style

and being a musician, it doesn't hurt.

(laughing)

Definitely gives a

good way to meet people.

Of the guys in the band,

at least two of them

have met their girlfriends

through music. Yeah.

So.

Would you say advice to younger guys

is to just go for it

with the old school way

and that they might

be pleasantly surprised

that girls like to just be

approached more traditionally

as opposed to, you

know, just through a DM?

I've had success and I've also

experienced failure.

(laughing)

So I don't know that

there's one right way to do it,

but I'd say you're limiting yourself

if you're only gonna

stick to one method.

So utilize everything that's out there.

If you see someone

and you think you'd like

to go talk to them, you should do it.

Yeah, and what would be

some advice to younger people

that are just getting out

of college as far as career,

as far as trying to figure out what,

the 20s aren't easy.

I always say that 20s have

lots of peaks and valleys

and it can be very discouraging

and you can feel like

you're out in the world

and is this it, is this life?

I don't know if I even wanna do this.

What would be some

advice you would give?

So going back to the

philosophical side of things,

another thing that I always would say

is just be a sponge

and make that your mentality.

It doesn't matter what you're doing,

good companies, bad

companies, products you love,

products you can't

stand, there's something there

that you can use and you'll learn from

that's gonna help you

later in your career.

Even opportunities when I

was working for companies

where I knew I didn't

have a future there,

there were still

things that I was learning.

And so that would be my mindset.

I mean, first you have to do something,

but you don't have to

love what you're doing

out of the gate.

I mean, I jumped around

and I think everyone should,

I think that is one

thing that's different

about the job market nowadays is that

most people don't work for the same

company out of college,

you work for them for 30

years, 40 years, that's it.

Don't be afraid to take a leap,

don't be afraid to make a change.

Not everything is so permanent.

Shit, even in relationships too,

if it's not, if you

don't have that feeling like,

all right, I wake up every morning

and I just wanna run

through a brick wall

for this company or for that person,

I mean, you guys have been together,

how long have you been together?

31 years, well together 33 years,

married almost 31 years.

31 or 33 wonderful years.

Yes.

And so you guys must

feel that every day.

For sure.

Well, I would say on the

career front in terms of that,

you have to reinvent yourself.

Like, I'm 53 years old or 54, right?

You're 53.

The world's changed a lot

and you've gotta

continue to reinvent yourself.

I agree with you, you're spot on.

Be a sponge, pay attention,

keep your eye on the ball,

work hard, play hard

and you don't have to like what you're

doing all the time.

Now, if you can get

there, then that's great.

But if you can't, then

things like music or hobbies

can kinda help you get through when

you're in the peak.

I think it comes down

to storytelling too.

Every person has their own experiences

and they're not always gonna be good.

Like even earlier, what I talked about

with what happened through college,

I didn't know how to tell

that story in my career.

I had struggles, I

worked for a company,

I knew I wasn't gonna be great, I

worked for a company,

I watched all my friends get laid off,

I applied for a

promotion and I didn't get it.

All these things though,

like it's not what bad happened

or what could have

happened or should have happened,

it's what are the lessons I learned?

What are the things that I did

that helped me get

through that experience?

And as long as you can articulate that

and maybe this is

just a salesman in me,

but that would be my advice.

Every job is, every person you meet,

every experience you have is another

chapter in that story

and then you just have to

be able to put it together

and if you can, you'll

be marketable to anyone.

I totally agree with

you, it's a great point.

It's good you're learning

that at such a young age too

because in the corporate world,

we call that your

talking points, right?

What are the talking

points for a good situation

or a bad situation?

But if you can explain the

how and the why and the what

from each step along the

way, that's great advice.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think that understanding

that you can reinvent

yourself, even like you said,

if you've worked somewhere for a year,

it's okay to go to another job.

Cause you are right,

from our generation,

people looked more at longevity, how

long have you been?

So you felt like you had to stay there

to prove your longevity on your resume.

But I think it's the opposite for your

generations, right?

It's been a while

though, like when I got

into my professional world

right before the dot com,

boom, lived through the bus

and I changed jobs three,

four, five times each time

to double my salary.

So you gotta just keep doing it

and your age is when you should do it.

It needs to be strategic, I think,

it needs to be fairly calculated.

You don't wanna be

just like, oh, this sucks,

I'm moving now, this sucks

three months later, I'm moving.

You wanna try to be

able to tell the story,

why did it suck?

Or you almost never

wanna say it sucked,

it's more of this is just a better fit.

And this was a better fit

and a better opportunity,

more

responsibilities, that kind of thing.

You should try and move too,

when you have some

type of positive momentum.

Also, like I had a mentor

when I was a share file,

even though that was a

relatively short stint.

Maybe five, six months.

But when I told him, hey, yo,

I'm gonna go work at

this startup called Finally,

he gave me this analogy of like,

whenever you're at a company,

you're like pulling the

drawstring on a bow back

and the second you

decide to make a move,

especially if you

move to another company,

you're releasing all that energy,

you gotta start from the beginning.

If you're applying within,

say you're at a big company

that has different

organizations and you launch that,

well, you might not go all the way back

because your name is still known,

your brand is still known

and you still have

further to pull back.

So it's just another

thing to consider too.

It's like, don't be

afraid to make the jump,

but make sure you do it

when you've got it pulled back

already in some capacity

because otherwise you're not

gonna be able to go as far.

It's a great analogy.

And it's a great analogy.

One thing I would say too is,

and you've learned it early on is,

I would avoid the VC,

the venture capitalists,

because they're all about buying a

company like a Citrix,

completely liquidating

it, layering it with debt,

and then they're gonna

sell it to someone else

at some point.

And all along the way,

there's a bunch of casualties.

And one of the things that we thought

was gonna be the case

was that they were gonna cut too far

and then maybe rehire,

but with the Citrix,

it was like, they cut,

and then they cut.

They cut too far and don't rehire.

And they cut and they still,

and ShareFile just

got acquired by another.

And it was already

being built out to sell.

And a lot of my friends that did end up

making the move to ShareFile too,

some of them, a handful

of them are still there,

but most of them got laid off also.

So it's just kind of, it's just tough.

I mean, it's a tough

situation out there.

So look for companies too that really

believe in their people.

Look for, if you're

looking at a CEO or a founder,

look for one who's not

talking about exit strategy

from the beginning.

Look for somebody who's interested in

building and growing

and actually has

more of a long-term view

that requires good people.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Now, do you have any

other questions before I ask?

Just one maybe.

It's going back to the music.

What were some of your strongest

influences musically

as you got into, like,

we've talked Billy Joel or--

Yeah. Allman Brothers.

Yeah, those-- Yeah, but then--

It definitely started

with them, Billy Joel

and Elton John.

And then I also went

through like a huge Beatles kick

when I was in middle school.

And one of the things

about the Beatles in particular

that I find good for

anyone who's learning

this type of music is

that their songwriting

is very particular and they have a lot

of interesting chord progressions.

It's not like a

country tune or a pop tune

that you might hear on the radio.

That's like, you know,

everyone sees those

things on Instagram.

And you can play one

of those four chords

and you can play 10,000 songs.

It is not that.

It is not that.

The Beatles-- It's complex, right?

It's complex and the progressions,

you'd have to be really

adept to just sit down

and listen and try and pick it out.

Like a lot of times

you'll go and you'll look up

and be, oh, these are the chords.

And then oddly enough,

another place that you find that

is Christmas music.

I used to always get

excited for the holidays

because I'm like, all

right, new shit I get to learn.

And those songs aren't easy either.

Like they take you and that

Christmas music is really,

especially the older

stuff is very jazz oriented.

And so just find things

that kind of challenge you.

My dad and my mom both loved Journey.

I saw Journey three times.

Well, with Filipino guy, Arnal Panito,

which was again, back to

the like, oh, well, you know,

you didn't see it with Steve Perry.

It wasn't Jerry.

For me-- It was the experience.

Yeah, you had the experience.

I'm blessed that I'm there

and I'm able to relate to it.

And that's good piano music too.

Faithfully and Open

Arms. Yes, well, they have

a wonderful pianist.

He's amazing.

His name is Escape from Me.

John Carr, John,

something Carr, something Carr.

But no, I'll never forget as a Gen Xer,

I don't remember what album it's on,

but when Open Arms

first played on the radio,

because that's when

we would have heard it.

It was paralyzed.

You just were like,

what did I just listen to?

It was that. So beautiful.

And we were young and we were still,

I was just like taken away.

And when you hear those first notes,

you're just like, you

stop what you're doing.

It's a beautiful song.

And Slick in the band, Slick Rick,

has put together a

beautiful guitar arrangement

of Open Arms.

Oh, really? Really interesting.

Yeah, no, he's done the

same with Vienna also,

which is a tune that I'll

play gigs from time to time.

Oh my gosh, I forgot about Vienna.

He's so talented.

You have to listen to some Journey.

That's Billy Joel.

Oh Vienna, oh Vienna is, Vienna is.

Yes, yes, yes.

But all of these, it's

like, they all contribute.

And as a musician, when you're drawing

upon your influences,

you wanna have a little bit of this

and a little bit of that.

And it's like a chef.

I wanna grab some of these little bass,

listen to a little time.

You go to different

places and certain songs

and certain moods call

for different things.

Now I have like the knot,

let's say it was only a piano.

All right, well, I know I

want a little bit of this,

a little bit of that, but now I have,

I got two keyboards,

I just bought a synth.

I can draw from my organ

and I can make the organ

sound one way or another way.

I can go to the clap and I

can get that funky kind of

superstition like

type five Billy Preston.

Then I can go to my keys, I

can go to my electric piano,

I can do synth pads, I can do strings.

That's cool.

It's like not only do I

have the musical ideas,

like fundamentally

just looking at the notes,

but now there's so

much you can do with tone.

I mean, look at guitar players,

they've got pedal boards that have.

It's essentially the

same thing just with,

and with a wedding band,

we do the earth, wind and fire stuff.

We play like, yo, do a little dance.

Yes.

I forget who that one is,

not earth, wind and fire,

but I'm playing horns.

Is that cool in the game?

Yeah, cool in the game.

I'm playing horns, I'm

doing the horn section.

That's cool.

On my wand.

On the other wand, I'm

doing other stuff, so.

You're like a true conductor

with all your different.

I'm trying.

Yeah.

Steve was the musical

director of that band though.

He put in more work than anyone else.

He just told me what songs

to play and where to show up.

That's cool.

That's very cool.

Yeah.

Well, the last thing I'll say,

who's the band we just

saw at the Black Hat,

the Jerry Garcia Experience?

Yes, I think that's what they were.

Garcia Experience,

the Garcia Experience.

Wait, is it the one with Melvin Seals

playing with them now?

No. No.

That would be cool though.

Melvin has played with

them now that you say that,

but not here.

He has, he didn't play here though.

We saw them here, it was phenomenal.

Have you ever gone to Black Fox?

No, I've heard about it though.

It's a great venue.

Actually, you know what,

I was getting a routine,

you know, just turned

29 like health checkup.

And this guy came in,

in the waiting room

was wearing a dead hat

and I struck up a conversation with him

and he was telling me

that he saw them there

and that I needed to go.

Yeah, we went to both

nights and they're amazing.

And they come around, they

spend their winter down here.

So they're always here in the winter.

I didn't feel like that

was a cover band experience.

He was impressed.

I was super impressed.

He was impressed.

So he even stayed after and

talked to them afterwards.

Yeah, yeah, I talked to the guitarist.

So don't miss that,

that one's a good one.

Yeah, definitely.

Anything that's coming up on the radar.

So here's some shows

that I'm gonna go see.

There's a jam band

called Dogs in a Pile.

Yep.

I haven't really dug

into their stuff yet,

but they're coming to

Revolution Live in April

and then Daniel Donato.

Oh, he's amazing.

I've seen some of his stuff.

He's coming to the,

he's doing two nights

at the Funky Biscuit in April.

Oh shit.

Yeah, so I'm gonna, last week in April.

All right, we're going.

Let's go look at that.

I would go to that, yeah.

Yeah, we'll look at that.

Yeah, I like to, well, Nathan gets

seats at the bar now

because he's such a regular.

Oh really?

Yeah, that's his little secret.

He goes every Tuesday and gets it.

Oh sure, he's been asking me to go

and I haven't made it.

He's gotta go.

It's fun, yeah, the bartender saves him

however many seats he wants to show.

I used to go Thursdays to

Fish Depot when they did it.

They sold it, it's for like Bonanza.

Yeah, yeah.

I may cut out the

part about Daniel Donato.

He doesn't want to get sold out though.

Waiting till we buy

our tickets and then.

Yeah, we'll buy tickets first.

So before I ask my last

question, was there anything,

because we can cut this

part out when I'm saying,

was there anything on your sheet

that we want to make

sure we covered everything?

Yeah, and actually, so

another really cool thing

that had come out of the

time when I was working

at Bobby's dad's company

was I work with a bunch

of mutual friends too.

They had a bunch of us that they hired

all kind of in similar situation.

And we're all, at

that time, we were all,

I'm still an amateur golfer,

but I was even more amateur.

And I also like to

drink more than I do now.

But we came up with this idea

that has evolved

substantially over the year.

But the idea was basically,

let's get a bunch of our guys together.

There's like 12 of

us for the first year

and get a bunch of

foursomes back to back

and we'll pair up.

And for every beer that

you and your partner drank,

you got one stroke off of your final.

A Mulligan.

Exactly.

A stroke off your final golf score.

And so the first year we played at

Delray Country Club,

just-

On Atlantic?

It's nice, but we showed

up and we all Ubered there

and we get out of the

car holding 24 packs.

One of the guys is like,

what the hell is this?

It's a bachelor party.

And we were like, yeah.

So the first year went pretty well.

Saved for a small

incident with a golf cart,

but it was fun.

And then next year I

was like, all right,

we know what, this was fun.

Like, I should do it again.

I try and do it every October.

So I grew it the following year.

I think we had 24 people and 36.

Oh, nice.

The biggest it's ever been was 56.

And as it evolved, I also, I didn't

want people driving.

Like I knew that was

gonna be a nightmare.

So we brought in a bus

or a shuttle component

where people would meet up.

We'd shuttle everyone to the course.

We would do our round of

golf, have an award ceremony

and then shuttle

everyone back to a bar.

So we've done it

five times in six years.

The only year we took off was 22,

which as I was

saying was like that year

where I was making the change with,

and it was around

when I stopped playing

with the ruminators too.

But yeah, we did the

fifth annual last year.

We had 48 people went

off without a hitch.

We always give out awards and prizes.

That's awesome.

What's it officially called?

Oh, it's called the beers and birdies.

The beers and birdies.

Yeah, fall classic.

It says it open to

anyone that wants to do it,

or is it kind of like

you and your friends?

Can't be a dick.

You're gonna love this, Brian.

We have a whole list of rules and

there's all these rules

and there's one section about like,

oh, how do you get relief

if your ball is behind a tree

or whatever, and that's rule six.

And then rule six A is the

main rule is don't be a dick.

Yeah, perfect.

I like that.

It's highlighted.

That's hilarious.

I like that.

The only rule that's highlighted in the entire list.

So it's open, people can

go on, you have a site?

No site, it's word of mouth.

I'll probably start

organizing it again here soon.

It's usually some time in October.

I try and do it around

when daylight savings happens

and before daylight

savings and before the rates

get jacked up for the season.

So if somebody was

listening and wanted to participate,

how would they find it in October?

That's a good question.

You could just reach

out to me directly.

Okay, so maybe we'll put

in maybe some contact info.

Maybe I'll make an

email like beers and birdies

and email out comments.

Yeah, something like that, yeah.

We can put it in there.

But yeah, you spend

word of mouth mostly.

Yeah, that's cool, I love that.

I know you have 48 people now.

I have 48 last year.

That's a lot.

I would assume you know

everybody too though, right?

So here's a success

story of the golf tournament.

I try and bring people in from, I have

a mission statement.

It's basically like, do you bring

people from different

social and professional

circles and for a day of fun

and golf and just, you know,

it's like, it's not working

but it's not, it's all

centered around, you know,

a little bit of debauchery,

but like a healthy amount.

And so one of my buddies

that I went to college with,

he comes into play one

year and he comes from Tampa.

My friend that I was

in, I might go try and see

Billy Strings with.

And then my other, a

friend of a friend also comes in

up from Miami, they hit it off.

And this was probably three years ago.

And for this most recent one, their,

them and like, you know,

a handful of their

friends, one of the guys brother

and they all get an Airbnb.

They all come in from out

of town and they met through

the tournament and now

they're doing it just

because they love it.

No, that's really awesome.

And it's, is it all different ages?

Yeah.

Or is it mainly year round year age?

So last year was the first

year I had my dad play in it.

So he played with

some of his friends too.

So it's a mixed bag.

Couple of years we've had a

couple of girls play it too.

So it's not just, not

just guys, not just guys.

But yeah, I'm going to aim to do it

around October again

this year.

Now does any of the money,

do you raise any money for something?

So traditionally no,

but last year was the

first year that we did

and we donated a portion.

It wasn't much.

It was like 200, 300

bucks went to First Tea,

which is an organization

to help kids get acquainted

with golf.

Oh, that's wonderful.

Yeah.

That's great.

So I'll look to

continue that this year too.

I think you need a

digital flyer for social media

and all that.

I usually put it together later.

I wasn't prepared to

bring it up for this.

This morning I was like,

oh, I'm going to podcast.

Let me plug beers and birdies.

Actually it's something

that as we get closer,

we can always add it

into your description.

Like towards the fall,

somebody's interested.

Yeah, sure.

Oh yeah, I have a

question for you guys.

Oh.

That's not allowed.

Yeah, it's really, I've

been asking all the time.

Yeah, so one thing

that I was wondering,

are you guys been doing this,

you think you said since

like last summer, right?

Last summer I think.

I think we started, last

May was our first episode.

Where we-

Bought everything in March,

we started figuring out

the technical details,

because there's camera

work here, there's lighting,

there's audio, all this stuff.

So we started, I think

playing with it in March,

did our first episode in May.

But I don't think we released it until-

I feel like it was May-ish.

Maybe not, I don't know.

No, maybe, May or June we released.

So yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, first of all, this

is a super impressive setup.

So again, thanks for having me.

I'm curious, you've got

three kids varying ages,

you've been married for 33 years,

you guys are in your early fifties,

so you've been adults for some time,

but now after interviewing

boomers, Gen Xers, Gen Zers,

how was your opinion-

Millennials.

And millennials, you have myself,

how was your opinion on adulthood,

or how's your perspective,

how these things changed

based on some of the experiences

you've heard from people here?

That's such a great question.

I think that I've

discovered there's more similarities

across the generations than I thought.

I think that the younger generations,

the Gen Zs and the

millennials have brought such

an interesting fabric into adulthood

as far as you guys are much more open

to talking about your

thoughts and your feelings

in a positive way and

reflecting on things

and not just pushing things aside.

I feel like you honor yourselves more.

If you're going through something,

you will take the time

to look at it, see it,

and try to resolve it or overcome it.

I think that I'm just so,

I have become incredibly

impressed with the millennials

and the Gen Zs and

how they tackle life.

And I know that anxiety

seems to be a common theme

in those generations,

but I think your self-awareness with

with anxiety, with

stress, with depression,

with the hard things

that come in adulthood,

has aided you guys so much.

And I think overall,

you don't bury things

like Gen X and Boomers do.

I think Gen X is

just now in our midlife

starting to delve into

those things that are--

It's trying to taboo,

like you shouldn't talk

about it, don't acknowledge it.

There was no

discussion of mental health.

It was looked down on, it was judged.

And so it's just now

where we are stopping

and giving ourselves

space and permission

to express some of those things,

because no one ever allowed us to,

but the younger

generations have given us space.

You guys have given us

space and given us permission.

So I'm grateful to Gen

Z and the millennials

for giving that to us,

because Gen X

especially is the first to say,

fuck it, I don't give a shit.

But really we were grinding with

carrying so much pain.

So my experience

just doing this podcast,

I feel I've just been so honored

to get to know millennials and Gen Zs.

And I'm so grateful to what they have

brought into society.

And I think the younger generations

will only continue to benefit from it.

I've also learned that Boomers

absolutely don't talk about

their feelings or thoughts.

And I think it's such a

foreign concept to them

that I think very few of them will

delve past anything.

I think Gen X there's still hope.

But I do think we all

have faced similar issues

in our lives,

but the way the younger

generations are handling them,

I'm just incredibly

impressed with you guys.

So I don't know if that

answers your question.

It totally does.

I mean, I think we

were wrapping up saying,

we didn't feel that it

was okay to talk about it,

but as it's become more prevalent

in the younger generations,

it's not so crazy anymore.

It's not like, let's address it.

Let's have a conversation about it.

Let's use that

information to live better,

happier, healthier lives.

Yeah, and not every Gen X are well.

Like a lot of Gen Xers will judge.

Not every millennial will,

not every Gen Z will either.

It's true, but there's definitely a

culture in Gen X of,

especially among the Gen X men of,

because we've talked

about that in episodes,

but they bury their feelings

and what do we need feelings for?

And we just go forward.

But it comes out in other

ways that are unhealthy,

if you don't.

So there's something to

be Gen Xers that don't,

but I do think because of millennials,

I think millennials

brought the work-life balance

onto the scene.

I think millennial men and women,

when they get married

or have a relationship,

work really well together,

sharing responsibilities domestically

and outside of the home.

Gen X never even discussed any of that.

And then I think Gen Z is,

whatever millennials have created,

Gen Z is just running with it.

They're fearless.

And the Gen Z women,

their girlhood is strong.

Like they support

each other like crazy.

Whereas Gen X women were taught to

compete with each other

and we were more catty.

So those changes,

I've just been so honored

to be able to hear all these stories.

And I think it's

positively affecting our generation.

Would you agree?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't have nearly as an eloquent

answer as she does.

I would say for myself

and just doing this podcast

is meeting people

like yourself and others

and how humbling and honor,

how much of an honor it is

for someone like yourself

to come in and share so much with us

and share your life story.

And it might be easier for you

because of the

generational perspective,

but we've had some

folks our age come on

and share some really

just fascinating stuff.

And it's like, it's

just an honor to have,

to be in the seat and to

have these conversations

with people and then,

you know, to your point,

you'd be a sponge.

I'm a sponge.

I'm always learning and sponging.

So I hear some of these things.

I'm sponging.

I'm sponging.

Sponging.

It's gonna be a new saying.

There you go.

But I'm hearing these

experiences and conversations

and especially from women.

And it's like, wow, that's really wild.

And it's really cool.

It's been cool.

So you learn, it's cool.

We continue to evolve, right?

You don't, you'd think, you know,

I think when we were younger,

we'd look up to people older than us

and they were sort of

waiting to die in a sense.

It kind of feels like that.

We're still living hard.

Like, you know.

I would say Gen X is

pioneering old age.

Yeah.

Like we're not going

to go down quietly.

We're gonna continue going until

probably the day we die.

I think it's a

generation, you know, we are.

And hopefully that

allows you guys to still have,

to do the same and to know

that life ends when it ends.

It doesn't end when

you're 50 or 60 or 70 or 80.

I used to think like 70 was decrepit.

And now I'm like 16 years away from

that, which is crazy.

Well, plus our game, right?

Gen X adulting, it's like, we're

fucking adulting here.

Yeah.

We're not, you know what I mean?

It's like, we had to

grow up at some point.

And one thing is that

the way you feel right now,

you're gonna age, but

you're gonna still feel

like this in your brain.

Like you're not, the

essence of you is always the same.

You just happen to be aging.

Does that make sense?

One question I thought

maybe I might get asked

a variation of was like, you know,

do you feel like an adult?

That's a great question.

Yeah.

Sometimes more than others, you know,

like the fact that I

have people that rely on me

and especially like the opportunity

I've had professionally

makes me feel more like an adult, but

like I'm a kid at heart

and it's funny you brought up the

office because like,

even in my professional situation,

like I always thought

Michael Scott was the funniest

and like, I know we have fun.

Our team is the cash

cows, like get the moolah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

One of the other guys

bought me a cow bell

that I rang one time for the meeting.

And like, you know, I don't know.

You can't take everything so seriously.

Yes.

And you got to try new

things and you got to mix it up.

And, you know, just, I'm so

appreciative of the

opportunity to do this.

You know, you talk about how much

people are willing to share.

When you first asked,

when I first got invited,

I was like, I'm not

going to say anything.

I would have made for really boring.

I know, I know.

And, you know, even now,

like as we're wrapping it up,

I'm like, you know, maybe

we should cut some things

but I don't know, you know.

You can reflect on it

and then let us know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think I will because

like I just, even the format

and like having the

opportunity to come and do this

and like the exercise of,

and I mentioned this to you

before we started of like,

it's all about telling stories.

So how do we look

back at our lives so far?

And like, put a

storytelling lens on it.

I think so often we just

look at the experiences

that we go through and

we don't get a chance

to spend them or make,

just look at them and how

they can be used to shape us

and mold us more.

We just take them for what they are.

And so, yeah, I think I'm

happy with how this went

and you guys have been great hosts.

Oh, thank you.

So fantastic.

Thank you so much.

Well, I think that

everyone has a story,

whether you're your age, 29,

we've had 24, 25 year olds.

We had a 61 year old here yesterday.

Where your story is now

and it's gonna keep evolving.

And so, and I think it

helps people to reflect

on where they come from

because then they

realize how far they've come.

Because sometimes you don't realize

all the things you've done

and all the things you've

accomplished and learned

until you really sit down and say it.

And then you're

like, wow, I do do a lot.

And I should be proud of myself.

It gives you that moment.

We say everyone has a story and we

almost gloss over it.

But everybody has a

story that's unique to them

that's really cool

and it's really special.

No matter what it is,

it's really cool and special.

And it's different and it's unique.

And for us to sit in here and

participate and talk.

It's awesome. It's awesome.

But as far as being an adult,

we just happen to be

people that have aged,

but we literally, like I

remember I used to think,

oh, the adults will know what to do.

And then you were like,

oh shit, I'm the adult.

But you don't.

And that's one thing I'll tell people,

don't wait until you

think you know what to do.

Like you're the person,

just no one knows what they're doing.

People put on a good front,

but everyone's just kind of doing it.

Half the people are just pretending.

It's like delusion.

So you just need to go for it

because like we could

have not started this podcast

because other people are doing it.

But no one's better than anyone else.

So you have to live your,

I'm big on living an authentic life.

You have to live your authentic life.

You only get one

life and just go for it.

Don't compare yourself to anyone else

because it's your life.

And that's adulting in my mind.

And I finally have learned that.

I think on that front too,

and especially for someone

your age, just be a leader.

Lead your own path.

And when others need

leading, lead them.

You're now in management,

so you're by default a leader.

Yeah, definitely. By people.

Yeah.

But there's no secret.

It's very subjective.

Everyone has their own experience.

So just to continue to

live an authentic life.

I think that's the best answer

to the previous question

of how has your perspective changed?

You said it all comes

back and through doing this,

you're able to kind of

draw that conclusion.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's true.

We learn just as much

as when people come here

and they leave.

And we've had so many people say,

"Gosh, I didn't even

realize that about myself."

Or, "This is the first

time I've ever said that."

But we also are learning every time

we do this about ourselves.

It's almost like a therapy session.

We've had people say that.

We've had people say that, yeah.

And that's why we also always say,

"When you get home, if you need

something taken out,

that's fine."

Well, but that's

probably the honor in it for us

is that you feel like that.

You feel like you

got something out there

and so if it's a therapy session,

that implies maybe

you feel pretty good.

I do feel good, no.

Positive.

I was a little nervous,

so I've never been on a podcast before.

I don't know how much I'm gonna say,

what we're gonna talk about.

I saw some of the other episodes.

I knew we had the music vein in common.

So I figured we'd go down that one.

And I thought, I put some

thought into it beforehand.

How do I wanna structure this?

How's this gonna go?

But you guys are great.

Honestly, I think you killed it.

Oh, absolutely.

I think you killed

it, you did a great job.

No question.

And that leads me to

my last question is,

where do you see

yourself in five years?

Oh, I anticipated this one.

(laughing)

I think for now, I'm

really, really happy

with what I'm doing with Finally.

So I'm gonna keep riding that wave

and get back to sponging.

I'm gonna do that.

Sponging.

I'm gonna do that as long as I can

with this current opportunity.

But even from leadership above me,

a lot of them have other

things that are going on

and they have other sources of income

and they're

entrepreneurs in their own right.

And they've pushed me to do that.

And then of course with my dad

being a huge

entrepreneurial influence in me,

I'd like to get something up and

running off on the side,

working with AI,

potentially scoring calls

or doing something else as,

and I think what you guys just said,

we could have not started a podcast

because there's other people out there

that are doing it already.

I'm like, wow, I could

not do what I wanna do,

which is start my own company

because I don't know,

there's other people

in the market already.

It's all still so early,

like just have the

confidence, take a risk,

take a shot and figure it out.

It's like trial by fire,

it's either gonna

sink or it's gonna swim,

especially with a business like that.

It's not like there's a

huge upfront capital expense,

it's not just time.

And if I go into it

with that mentality too,

let me just learn, let me

just learn, let me just learn.

So I'd like to get that

up off the ground running.

I already have business

registered and things like that,

but it's still super early stages.

And then I'd like to

spend some time abroad

in another country.

I'd like to get that

going so that I could work

with US clients and maybe go to Spain

or maybe to Latin America.

I've been working on my

Spanish, it's not good.

I'm not gonna do it on the podcast.

But I think that's another thing that's

important to me too,

is to be multi-dimensional.

Variety is the spice of life,

that's another one of my sayings.

Yeah, that's so true, that is so true.

Yeah, no, I think

that's where I see myself

in a couple of years, maybe five years.

And who knows, maybe the finally wave

takes me seven years,

10 years, I'm not sure.

Because again, I just feel so blessed

to be with the people

that I'm working with now, or it could

all go down tomorrow.

And I could be trying to figure it out.

So I'm just gonna

take my day, day by day.

And as long as I

prioritize increasing my knowledge

and keeping a humble

and open-minded approach,

I think everything's

gonna work out right now.

I think those are great goals.

And I think just the

fact that you take lessons

from all of your life experiences your

way ahead of the game

to do that, it's such a

great skill, and it is a skill,

and it has to be practiced.

And I think that you are

excelling in that area.

And even if it all blows up tomorrow,

you're gonna be

fine, and you know that.

Because you've been there.

And so, and I always

view those as opportunities,

okay, then this means

there needs to be a change.

And it's gonna be uncomfortable,

but something better is coming along.

But either way, I

think you're gonna do great

and be just fine.

The one thing I would add is,

so when we started the podcast,

we didn't know what

the hell we were doing.

We just had an idea, right?

And you're kind of talking about that

on an entrepreneurial front.

Just start and what

you'll learn in the first week,

in the third, in the

fourth, then the sixth month,

it's just very different.

We know so much more than day one.

But if we never took day one, we

wouldn't know shit.

So it's an interesting--

Just start.

It's an interesting concept.

It's gotta do it.

You know, again, life's too short.

Like we talked about

when you first got here,

we hit midlife and we realized,

if we're gonna do it, we gotta do it.

And we're not knocking off Rogan

from the top anytime soon, right?

It's not even an objective or a goal.

No, no.

But wherever it goes, it

goes and we're having fun.

Well, and that's the authenticity

is you have to know

what your motivation is

and it's coming from a good place.

And then no matter what

you do, it's gonna be fine.

Cause it's gonna be satisfying.

I do still want Elon Musk as a guest.

I really do just cause I

find him to be fascinating.

Have you written to him?

No, no, but--

That's not a good place to start.

Yeah, no, sorry.

Yeah, there you go.

There, start, just start.

So, but thank you so

much for your story, Golar.

Oh, thank you all.

I really appreciate

it. Yeah, thank you.

And we will put all the

links to all the things.

I know, he talks about a lot.

In the description, we will.

And so that if anyone's interested

and wants to know where

to find Golar in his band

and all that stuff,

it'll be in his descriptions.

I have listened to the band.

I was checking them out today.

Definitely recommend them.

I do like it.

Thank you.

You guys jam, I love it.

It was awesome.

Yeah, appreciate it.

Yeah, it was good.

Thanks so much, Brian.

Yes, definitely check them out.

And again, thank you so much.

Hopefully we'll have you

back maybe in like five years

and see where you

are, see what's going on.

That would be amazing.

Yeah, for sure.

And thank you to our listeners.

If you please leave us

any comments or questions,

we love to read them and

we will see you next time.

Bye.

(upbeat music)